Sony Plan for World Domination

[Jack B]

Phil Harrison has a very long and quality interview with OPM, that you can view here (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3151510).

OPM: There's a question of how ready these games will be when launch time comes. How in-depth will they be? Will they really be taking advantage of the PlayStation 3 hardware?

PH: I was on a highway to nothing at GDC. There was no way I could do it right. If I walked on and showed nothing, you would've killed me. If I walked on and showed games that were clearly not finished, I would be criticized for it. So, it's like, I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. No disrespect to you guys, but the audience at GDC was the game developers, not the media. And everybody in the game-development community knows that launch is November, as you all know, and that E3 is really the key event for communicating what's going on with the games. The Resistance demo was actually created for an internal meeting in December, and that code hasn't changed since December--because if I had taken them off what they're doing for E3 to create a new demo just for GDC, we would have suffered at E3. You know, you've seen systems launched for years. You know the process we go through. The first things are not as good as what we have closer to launch or the games we have one year, two years out. I really enjoyed this article. Well done.

[Jack B]

I tried to keep opinion, out of the intial news post, so here is some...

Phil gained back a lot of respect by his comments. He made some excellent points and didn't have the arrogance, I'd been coming to expect from Sony execs. The article's title is a bit misleading as it does sound like Sony chest beating, but the article really isn't like that...

No time to comment further now, but there is a lot of good stuff in that article.

[Returner]

The man is still a tool.

[GrinR]

"I suppose you could think of it in a linear way: On one side, you've got Microsoft or AOL, with their "walled garden" approach. And on the other extreme, you've got Google or the open Internet, with uncontrolled, unregulated access to all. And where do we sit on that continuum? Well, it's definitely more the [Google] way than the [Microsoft] way."

Sony is like GOOGLE?

HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHA
http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/5852/scary3qx.gif
HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHA

[Goronmon]

Oh come on, in the context of what he was talking about, the anology isn't that bad. :p

[Morangie]

Maybe the chinese Google.

[Goronmon]

Well, I'll give you an example; Kazunori [Yamauchi, producer of the Gran Turismo series] would kill me for this: Imagine Gran Turismo shipping on a disc with one car and one track. And then you can browse, online, a dynamic circuit of vehicles that's growing every day because either the car manufacturers are adding new vehicles or we're adding new vehicles. And you can see a specific-type car that's being called up and say, "I think I'll play with that one. Let me download and play it." Maybe the business model allows you to play it for a day; maybe the business model allows you to own it forever.I really don't like the sound of that at all actually.

Other than that, the interview wasn't that bad. If anything, it stands out because there are no glaring, bad comments that tend to pop out in most stuff coming out of Sony. But really, it didn't seem like there was actually any new information here.

[Jack B]

I really don't like the sound of that at all actually.

Other than that, the interview wasn't that bad. If anything, it stands out because there are no glaring, bad comments that tend to pop out in most stuff coming out of Sony. But really, it didn't seem like there was actually any new information here.

True, most was known already, but some new ways to describe the potential uses was included.

Also, the more realistic tone was a breath of fresh air.

As for the GT downloading cars for a day type comment. It's an interesting idea for 'extra' content. Some won't have their PS3 connected at all, so shipping with 1 car and 1 track likely wouldn't work.

Having said that, a trial or demo period for a track or car(s) sounds OK to me. Try it and buy it if you want it.

[Montolio]

Good read but I didn't care for the part where he blames Microsoft for spreading misinformation on the PS2 being hard to program for. We've read many a developers' statement supporting that fact. I don't really understand how Microsoft banging that drum had anything to do with the reality of that issue. When you have the hardware sitting in front of you, it is what it is.

I'll be glad when the PS3 and associated services comes out so they can stop spinning; at least about this subject. Hell, I'll be glad when everyone has everything out so we can just worry about the games and how much the latest accessory, service, download, etc. is costing us =)

Good post Jack B.

[Khash]

Very interesting read. Refreshing, to say the least.

[oldjadedgamer]

"You know, you've seen systems launched for years. You know the process we go through. The first things are not as good as what we have closer to launch or the games we have one year, two years out."

Yeah.................... but just a few weeks before GDC Sony themselves said they were still on track for a spring launch. So what they showed should have been way farther ahead then they were. UNLESS they knew all along they wouldn't launch in Spring! But there is no way that Sony would have lied about that.

[GrinR]

Oh come on, in the context of what he was talking about, the anology isn't that bad. :p

Yes, yes it is! Name one thing that Sony sells that's friendly to other brands. Anything. Sony aka "our format or fuck you". Sony "rootkit on your computer". Sony "BUY drivers, we don't have them available for download". Sony "it's a USB cable, but we call it Sonylink and charge 5 times as much for it".

Do you think Sony will have trailers for download that are NOT from Sony Pictures? Hell no.

The "open" network he's talking about is a matchmaking service like All-Seeing-Eye, where sure, the servers are open but who knows what kind of quality you're going to get? Will you be able to make a friend in Gran Turismo and play Tekken 6 with him/her? The whole "we like things open and free" is SO MUCH BULLSHIT I can't believe anyone would believe it!

[Khash]

"You know, you've seen systems launched for years. You know the process we go through. The first things are not as good as what we have closer to launch or the games we have one year, two years out."

Yeah.................... but just a few weeks before GDC Sony themselves said they were still on track for a spring launch. So what they showed should have been way farther ahead then they were. UNLESS they knew all along they wouldn't launch in Spring! But there is no way that Sony would have lied about that.
Get off your high horse. So they didn't launch in Sping. So what? Stuff gets delayed all the time. Why is it only bad when Sony does it? Honestly, to care so much about something so trivial...

[Zanzibar]

The more I read this article, the more I thought "The guys over at Microsoft are fucking geniuses."

I remember DISTINCTLY, only a few years ago, hearing Sony reps dissing the Xbox and Xbox Live because they were broadband-only for online play, and now looky here, here's Phil Harrison singing the praises of broadband-only. There are a million other things that Harrison says in this article that I'm sure we could get Allard or Ballmer quotes from 2002 that say the exact same damned things.

[Roc Ingersol]

He's still spinning. Generalized promises, question dodges -- the usual.

What exactly are they delivering with their network? Who knows. He implies a lot of crap, talks about a lot of potential scenarios, but never says: here's what we've got.

What does he mean by "full executables can be booted and run from the hard-disk drive and also on the PSP from the memory stick"? He's certainly implying homebrew, but he never actually says it. He's 'selling the sizzle', as a feller says.

He directly sidesteps the question of: are you gonna ship a SKU without the HD? Baldly and proudly, he gives a non-answer and it just goes by.

How many launch titles? No idea. Granted, they gave him an out. They asked him 2 questions at once and he slid by, answering the dumb one and ignoring the other.

When asked about user-created content, he talks about bringing smaller studios into a sort of second-party arrangement. Later, he refers to user-created content with some of his favorite vague terms.

The tone is more conversational, but he's still selling bullshit by the bucket.

[Jack B]

He's still spinning. Generalized promises, question dodges -- the usual.

What exactly are they delivering with their network? Who knows. He implies a lot of crap, talks about a lot of potential scenarios, but never says: here's what we've got.

What does he mean by "full executables can be booted and run from the hard-disk drive and also on the PSP from the memory stick"? He's certainly implying homebrew, but he never actually says it. He's 'selling the sizzle', as a feller says.

He directly sidesteps the question of: are you gonna ship a SKU without the HD? Baldly and proudly, he gives a non-answer and it just goes by.

How many launch titles? No idea. Granted, they gave him an out. They asked him 2 questions at once and he slid by, answering the dumb one and ignoring the other.

When asked about user-created content, he talks about bringing smaller studios into a sort of second-party arrangement. Later, he refers to user-created content with some of his favorite vague terms.

The tone is more conversational, but he's still selling bullshit by the bucket.

While it's true, that Phil sidesteps some questions, he could have taken the previous stance, which would have been to say something like, "we'll do everything Microsoft/Nintendo do and do it better..." or he could have promised "ton's of launch titles that will jack you into the Matrix...".

He didn't do that. He took a much more realistic stance. He focused on what Sony could do and didn't make tons of promises, that were outrageous.

Sure a lot of it was vague, but they Sony probably just doesn't have hard facts to present. I'll take some vision statements without bashing the competition any day over what we've been hearing.

It makes me want to root for Sony to pull off some of these ideas, which I think are excellent. Who invented or thought of them first, I'm not so concerned about.

Having said that, I'm also not convinced they'll actually be realized to their fullest (or at all depending on the vision statement), but at some point and to some degree of "perfect" they could be.

I give Phil thumbs up for the content and delivery.

[Roc Ingersol]

While it's true, that Phil sidesteps some questions, he could have taken the previous stance, which would have been to say something like, "we'll do everything Microsoft/Nintendo do and do it better..."
He just did.

Sure, he didn't use the dumb 'matrix'/'ps3 will make your pc obsolete' bullshit.

But he told you that they were going to do networking 'better' than Microsoft, without saying whether it really was online only, or what-the-hell he meant by 'more the google way', and without having a single real example of a downloadable game, or map pack, or anything.

Like I said, the tone was more conversational than slick marketing speak. But he still didn't have anything to say.

[Vandenh]

But what about Killzone?

[Stryfe01]

Bah...cut the damn console price...give me optional Bluray drive, then give me great games and i'll make a judgement on Sony and the PS3. I enjoyed every console of this generation so far. Each for their own strengths.

It does bother me though that they won't come out and admit that they caught onto the broadband train late. The whole thing about MS not allowing the servers to be outside...that's long since changed. EA got them to do that, and they opened it up to others a few months after that.

[Cool AN]

Pretty good interview, certianly better then alot of other recent Sony interviews.

[Kamalot]

Pretty good interview, certianly better then alot of other recent Sony interviews.
I agree. It is better than other Sony interviews. That said, it is steeped in soggy bullshit, it isn't as arrogant though. :rolleyes:

Sony needs a big helping of Humble Pie and to start telling the truth.

[Royal Fool]

"We're not into gimmicks."

"I pick up the controller.. AND IT FLIES!!!"

Best. Public. Suicide. Ever.

[Mr.Condescension]

Do you think Sony will have trailers for download that are NOT from Sony Pictures? Hell no.

Hell yes they will! And they'll make a mint out of charging companies for the service. That's what apple does with their quicktime movie trailers on apple.com isn't it? There is absolutely no sense in not cashing in on other companies' content. I'm sure you will also be able to purchase any song you wish from their PS3 store, whether it's Sony owned or not. It would be leaving money on the table not to.

[Khash]

Hell yes they will! And they'll make a mint out of charging companies for the service. That's what apple does with their quicktime movie trailers on apple.com isn't it? There is absolutely no sense in not cashing in on other companies' content. I'm sure you will also be able to purchase any song you wish from their PS3 store, whether it's Sony owned or not. It would be leaving money on the table not to.
The only difference is that the adds and promotional stuff will pretty much be for Sony brand stuff which is fine, I guess. I could learn to live with it.

[Zechs01]

Check out this article on immersion and the PS3. http://games.kikizo.com/news/200606/110.asp
http://ps3.vggen.com/news/news.php?id=1441
http://www.gamedaily.com/features/?id=1039
Immersion aparently has designed a force feadback feature that compatable with Tilt sensors
CEO Victor Viegas of Immersion mentioned that the company is not only willing to help Sony put force feedback into the PS3's controller, but that Immersion would have absolutely no trouble getting around the motion sensing technology, saying that they can easily bypass the frequency and get everything working in tandem.

[Siraris]

I tried to keep opinion, out of the intial news post, so here is some...

Phil gained back a lot of respect by his comments. He made some excellent points and didn't have the arrogance, I'd been coming to expect from Sony execs. The article's title is a bit misleading as it does sound like Sony chest beating, but the article really isn't like that...

No time to comment further now, but there is a lot of good stuff in that article.

I think that Sony often sounds a bit arrogant, but they really have every reason to. First of all, when you've outsold your competitors almost 4-1 for the past 2 generations, you have a little room to brag. Secondly, I think Kaz, Ken, Phil, they are all trying to keep a sense of confidence going on their side. They aren't going to say stuff like "Welllllllll... We really blew it this generation, $600 is too much, the Wii is awesome, 360 looks great, hell... forget about Playstation let's just pack up and go home". They need to keep the confidence going so that people don't think they aren't taking this seriously.

And hell, confidence is sexy. That Phil Harrison... rawr.

[Jack B]

I think that Sony often sounds a bit arrogant, but they really have every reason to. First of all, when you've outsold your competitors almost 4-1 for the past 2 generations, you have a little room to brag. Secondly, I think Kaz, Ken, Phil, they are all trying to keep a sense of confidence going on their side. They aren't going to say stuff like "Welllllllll... We really blew it this generation, $600 is too much, the Wii is awesome, 360 looks great, hell... forget about Playstation let's just pack up and go home". They need to keep the confidence going so that people don't think they aren't taking this seriously.

And hell, confidence is sexy. That Phil Harrison... rawr.

I'd describe this article as confident and that's OK. I don't think arrogance is justified.

Main Entry: ar·ro·gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n(t)s
Function: noun
:a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.

[Siraris]

I'd describe this article as confident and that's OK. I don't think arrogance is justified.

Main Entry: ar·ro·gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n(t)s
Function: noun
:a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.

I misspoke, I meant they should be confident, not arrogant. I do feel, though, that arrogance is simply over confidence, and over confidence is something that Sony has every right to feel. As many have said in the past, a company is free to do what it wants, let the consumers decide. Sony is chosing to be overly confident about their position in the marketplace right now (as they should be, they have demolished their competition the past 2 generations), whereas Nintendo, for example, is being confident, but to a lesser degree (As they should be, they don't want to show weakness even though they have turned in quite a poor performance with their last 2 home consoles.

If it is simply a tactic for showing their confidence in themselves, then I am all for it, as long as they bring out a quality product this fall backed by a great lineup of games and other features. If this is them becoming "cushy" in their position, then they can be arrogant all they want, but eventually the 300 lb gorilla will topple, which will turn out to be quite a humbling experience.

[Kefkataran]

The "open" network he's talking about is a matchmaking service like All-Seeing-Eye, where sure, the servers are open but who knows what kind of quality you're going to get? Will you be able to make a friend in Gran Turismo and play Tekken 6 with him/her? The whole "we like things open and free" is SO MUCH BULLSHIT I can't believe anyone would believe it!

The analogy still works as far as we know. Until we have more details (and, really, hands-on experience) with PS3's online service, we can't say for sure either way how it will work, obviously. But regardless of your reasons for disliking an open online service (which are potentially very good reasons, IMO), the analogy still makes sense. It just means that we may not WANT a more "Google"-like online platform for consoles.

[Jack B]

The analogy still works as far as we know. Until we have more details (and, really, hands-on experience) with PS3's online service, we can't say for sure either way how it will work, obviously. But regardless of your reasons for disliking an open online service (which are potentially very good reasons, IMO), the analogy still makes sense. It just means that we may not WANT a more "Google"-like online platform for consoles.

Well put.

It's often said, that the best government is a benevolent dictatorship. It's just that most dictators aren't very benevolent.

It could work. I hope so. My guess is it will work really well in some areas and very poorly in others.

Better to reserve judgement until it's out.

[Siraris]

The analogy still works as far as we know. Until we have more details (and, really, hands-on experience) with PS3's online service, we can't say for sure either way how it will work, obviously. But regardless of your reasons for disliking an open online service (which are potentially very good reasons, IMO), the analogy still makes sense. It just means that we may not WANT a more "Google"-like online platform for consoles.

My interpretation of the service is very positive, and I don't see how it could be bad. Think about it like this; You have a login and password for the overall network, let's called it Hub, since that's what they were calling it before. You log into Hub and you have access to your personal page, your emails, your instant messaging, your transactions, achievements, etc. etc. Underneath that level, you have each game branching off from this hub. Each game that you play draws information and stores information in your main Hub account, but the information collected from each game is handled by the developer and not Sony itself. They just have specific protocols setup so that when the data is processed, it is done so that it corresponds with overall rules that they have setup that apply to the whole service.

Obviously there needs to be a unification between the broad network and the localized game networks, but developers can handle things any way they want. I have no clue what the plan is for this so it could be any number of things. I was going to use an example along the lines of having "Hub points" that are useable within each specific game, and then each developer chooses how they are going to use the points, perhaps points being worth more in some games or others.

I don't know if anyone noticed this, but I found it kind of funny how Phil basically waved his arms and said, "Hey Blizzard, we'd love to do business with you, give me a call!"

[Jack B]

My interpretation of the service is very positive, and I don't see how it could be bad.

If you haven't used 360 Live for any length of time, it would be easy to not understand how much it really does. Creating a service similar to 360 Live is difficult and it could be bad. Here's how.

I posted this on another thread a couple of weeks ago, so I just grabbed it, because it's a "worst case" interpretation of Sony's limited information on their Live Service.

DISCLAIMER - I don't believe all of these worst case scenario's, but Sony could easily comply with their PowerPoint slides from E3 and have a significantly difference Live service. I'm playing devil's advocate to show, that the devil is in the details when building a Live service.

Here goes.

Here are the 360 features from Microsoft and worst case Sony versions of the same "bullet points".

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/

Silver Level (free)

Create your gamer profile
This Sony gamer profile could be consist of similar information, but not be visible unless you exited a game and got back to the PS3 dashboard... Example: You're in a game and you'd like to look at the gamercard for someone you're playing with, but can't. Maybe you'd need to enter their name after you exit the game and go to the dashboard to look them up in the Sony database.

Create and maintain a friends list
Similar to a friends list on a website. It only works in a specific game or not all games or you need to exit a game and go to the dashboard to view your friends.

Access Xbox Live Marketplace including Xbox Live Arcade, demos, and trailers
Arcade titles on the 360 are "restored" with HD and multiplayer support. Sony could just port single user games without leaderboards.

Send and receive text and voice messages
Maybe this only would work from the dashboard. No ingame notifications or friends online, text messages, voice messages etc. You have to keep exiting your game to check your messages.

Join in special Xbox Live Gold trial opportunities
If some publishers charge for online game play (even if Sony doesn't) then they might not chose to have free trial periods. Additionally, you'd have to consistently monitor which games were having a free trial and when, because unlike the unified Live service all publishers won't participate in the same way.
Access massively multiplayer games

Gold ($4 a month)

Great online multiplayer gameplay
Since every publisher decides how much online support they'll offer, some will likely not want to put online support in at all. Microsoft requries it for certification. Sony has indicated it's up to the publisher to do what they want.

Exclusive Xbox Live Marketplace downloads and content
Should be the same. Quantity and quality, who knows.

Revolutionary TrueSkill™ matchmaking
Since many publishers may do their own online thing, maybe the matchmaking will be ingame as opposed to the integrated TrueSkill system. Each game may not know you're history from other games, just the one you're currently in. Thus, matchmaking is game to game, not unified. If I mute someone or mark with a bad rep or list types of gamers I prefer, I may need to do that all over again in each separate publisher's game.

Enhanced gamer feedback
Who knows what Sony will keep track of and share with each publisher.

Enhanced friends list management
Maybe friends list in game are only for that game or not at all. The universal PS3 friends list only exists outside a game at the dashboard...

Other things -

Notifications
Maybe notifications only appear once you're at the dashboard, not in game. Not much fun tracking down friends if you have to exit your game...

Achievements
Achievements may not be required by publishers or not have a standard like the 360's 1,000 for full games and 200 for arcade.

Sony could do very little and still comply with their Powerpoints. They may actually improve upon the 360 Live service. Having watched Microsoft evolve Live over the past 4 years. There is a lot to it, that isn't apparent until you use it day to day.

Sony also may have email and a web browser. If they do that well, but miss on some of the other items, maybe it washes out. Microsoft isn't standing still either, so all the above 360 Live features could be enhanced again in their next update in the fall.

Also, Microsoft had the dominant browser with Internet Explorer and email, so they could match that offering if needed as well.

I believe Sony will be fine on some of the features and others will be weak, which ones, I don't know.

[Eran Hawke]

Jack B, I really like reading your posts. Thank you!

[cppcrusader]

No disrespect to you guys, but the audience at GDC was the game developers, not the media.


This was a concept I felt was lost on the media and many gamers this year for some reason. It seemed like GDC got a lot more press this year than in the past and a lot of people just don't get the fact that its not E3.

A friend of mine, for example, was one these people who did not get that fact. I didn't get to go to GDC this year so I was stuck in the office during it. During that time I would get the occasional IM from him that was along the lines of "The keynote should have started an hour ago! Why isn't there any news". I tried to explain to him that usually internet access is only in a couple places at GDC, so he wouldn't likely see anything until after the keynote. He's used to constant minute by minute updates people give during E3 press conferences and the idea that he would have to wait to hear anything at all just didn't make sense to him.

I spent an hour or more trying to explain to him the fact that he was not the audience for GDC, its for developers. GDC is were developers get work done, E3 is where Marketing and PR get work done. In the end he still didn't get it, so I just gave up because I was tired of saying the same thing over and over.

[Siraris]

Jack - I appreciate all the time you put into that post, but I'm confused why you posted it. I didn't discuss the 360 whatsoever, and I have a very good concept of what it does.

After reading through some of your points, I would have to say that I'm a bit confused by everything you wrote. I don't know where you are getting these ideas, but I'll tell you that all the ideas of the features existing "outside the game" are not the case. It's quite easy to have all the features you suggested in the game, just like Live does it.

Furthermore, your thoughts that because of Sony's model, developers will "dodge" putting in online features doesn't make sense as well. I don't know exactly what you mean by Microsoft requiring online features for the 360, but last I checked, they didn't include a HDD with the Core version, which to me means that they aren't requiring online features for every game. I believe every PS3 game will have some form of online integration in it, even if it's just keeping track of scores. I also don't think it's a bad thing to give the developers an option. The most important thing in development is time, and if a developer feels that online is not important, it gives them more time to focus on the rest of the game instead of having to either hire someone or have another member of the staff spend time setting up a network framework and integrating it into the engine. If a developer feels that their game doesn't need online features, they are going to half-ass the online features if it is required.

Again, you're making it seem like this online service from Sony is some sort of seperate entity just because they are giving developers more freedom to do what they want. There will be a framework and tools given to every developer for adding network support, just like there is on the 360. I don't see how this model causes there to be this huge disconnect between the game and the online services; how would voicechat work if every time you were playing a game you had to quit out?

[shnastybiznastic]

One of the things that this interview hit on that scares me is that Sony (and Microsoft, for that matter) seems to think that micropayments are the second coming of christ. It wouldn't be so bad if they actually understood that for microtransactions to be good for the consumer, they need to be used to make avalable content that would have never been avalable otherwise; Not content that could be easily made into an update delivered through live, free of charge.

I guess what I mean is that they need titles by small developers who couldn't get thier stuff out if it werent for some method of cutting through the publisher/distributer system. These are what will really make microtransactions shine as the future of the industry. Paying $0.99 for a new song, or $0.50 for an avatar on live may be profitable, but it dosent change anything, and in a way, it neuters the disruptiveness of microtransactions as a technology.

[Jack B]

Jack - I appreciate all the time you put into that post, but I'm confused why you posted it.

Siraris,

You absolutely kill me. Are you serious? You can't figure out why I posted that????

You're either the biggest Troll on the planet just trying to get a rise out of me or the logic part of your brain has some holes in it. This is probably why you are number one in my book as most difficult to communicate with.

I'm sure others have their favorites, but you are number one in my book. Things just seem to either go over your head or you intentionally divert the conversation.

Here is what you said.

Originally Posted by Siraris
My interpretation of the service is very positive, and I don't see how it could be bad.

My entire post was in reply to that singular comment, which I snipped out and quoted at the beginning of my post. Get it????? I wrote an entire scenario of "HOW IT COULD BE THAT BAD".

Man, you're dense sometimes. Trying reading the quoted part in a post. Usually, the part right below it relates to the quoted part. Your quoted part was only 2 sentences. It's not that Fucking hard!!!!

After reading through some of your points, I would have to say that I'm a bit confused by everything you wrote.

Quit with the fucking generalities! Damn it I hate your "everything", "nothing", "always", "never" type bullshit. As Al Swearingen would say, "Go fuck yourself" if "NOTHING" I said made any sense. You're an ass or terrible at expressing yourself.

I'm so sick of it.

It's quite easy to have all the features you suggested in the game, just like Live does it.

We should do a poll on how "EASY" it will be to recreate EVERYTHING in 360 LIVE. Gee, it took Microsoft 4 years, but Sony will do it on the first try...

Siraris thinks he's so fucking brilliant, not only does he think it's a slam dunk for Sony to recreate EVERYTHING in the 360 LIVE service....

He thinks it will be EASY. Ask the Sony developers working on it right now how fucking EASY it is.

That's all the energy I have for a SONY FANBOY OF ENORMOUS SIZE! You're way too irrational to have an intelligent discussion with. I keep thinking of you as a kid. I know you're 25, but your logic is that of a teenager with Fanboy opinions.

I usually edit out my anger from my replies to you, but I feel like that guy from the movie, Network. "I'm fed up and can't take it anymore!".

[Kefkataran]

You absolutely kill me. Are you serious? You can't figure out why I posted that????

You're either the biggest Troll on the planet or the logic part of your brain has some holes in it. This is probably why you are number one in my book as most difficult to communicate with.

Dude, chill. He wasn't insulting you and he was actually pretty nice about it. You really need to calm down if you want to have some intelligent discussion, man. Siraris obviously disagrees, but in this post he did not come off as a big fanboy at all.

[Jack B]

Dude, chill. He wasn't insulting you and he was actually pretty nice about it. You really need to calm down if you want to have some intelligent discussion, man. Siraris obviously disagrees, but in this post he did not come off as a big fanboy at all.

Really. Answer 2 questions for me.

He said he didn't understand why I posted what could go wrong with Sony's Live service.

1. How could he say that without trying to piss me off after I wrote a lengthy and well thought out response.

2. He said, "I didn't understand ANYTHING you said". What a slap in the face. How could anyone read that entire post and not understand ANYTHING. Once again, he's saying that to PISS me off.

That's my point.

[Kefkataran]

1. How could he say that without trying to piss me off after I wrote a lengthy and well thought out response.

He did say he appreciated your response, he just went on to say he didn't completely get it. If that means you're gonna flip out on him, you're taking this internet discussion shit way too seriously.



2. He said, "I didn't understand ANYTHING you said". What a slap in the face. How could anyone read that entire post and not understand ANYTHING. Once again, he's saying that to PISS me off.

He never said that. He said he was confused by everything you said. There's a big difference, and it wasn't said in an insulting tone at all. Calm down.

[Jack B]

He did say he appreciated your response, he just went on to say he didn't completely get it. If that means you're gonna flip out on him, you're taking this internet discussion shit way too seriously.



He never said that. He said he was confused by everything you said. There's a big difference, and it wasn't said in an insulting tone at all. Calm down.

Kefkataran,

If this was my first run in with Siraris, then I'd agree. However, there is a lot of history between posts between the two of us.

I'm sure you've got your own personal "favorites" on this forum. I won't mention them here, but you have them. If one of them said, "I don't understand ANYTHING in your post and why did you write that..." after you'd spent the effort to respond, it would get you ticked off as well.

Maybe you have a reason to challenge me...

I'm still remember the discussion on ebay sellers of Launch systems with you. You slammed me for that. I was challenged to create a poll. I did. It's split down the middle. There are 6,000 people on Evil Avatar. Roughly 50% so far have stated Thumbs Down on eBay Sellers/scalpers/profiteers.

I expect you to take anyone else's side in a discussion with me. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'll just keep watching and see. Prove me wrong.

I do my best not to carry a grudge forward from any intenet battles, but Siraris knows we don't get along, so when he posts anything like "I don't understand ANYTHING you said". It's going to get things going.

[rein]

Really. Answer 2 questions for me.

He said he didn't understand why I posted what could go wrong with Sony's Live service.

1. How could he say that without trying to piss me off after I wrote a lengthy and well thought out response.

2. He said, "I didn't understand ANYTHING you said". What a slap in the face. How could anyone read that entire post and not understand ANYTHING. Once again, he's saying that to PISS me off.

That's my point.

I suppose you hate me too, but I agree with Siraris.

You post a very long post (twice now) with absolutely nothing to substantiate why you think any of those things have a possibility of happening. Even playing devils advocate, you need something besides just talking out of your bum.

I am not posting this to piss you off. Just letting you know that he has a valid point.

[Jack B]

I suppose you hate me too, but I agree with Siraris.

You post a very long post (twice now) with absolutely nothing to substantiate why you think any of those things have a possibility of happening. Even playing devils advocate, you need something besides just talking out of your bum.

I am not posting this to piss you off. Just letting you know that he has a valid point.

Rein,

No, you're not on my list. My list only consists of 3 people out of 6,000! I wonder if that's above or below the average! :D

And I don't mind you agreeing with Siraris on anything, but Siraris and I have a history. He's the only one I ever sent an email to apologize for a reply to one of his posts. I had to ask for a response to that email and was told, "it was noted". Yet another slap, so yeah we have a history.

I gave a big disclaimer at the beginning of the post. I never tried to substantiate anything. It was 100% speculation, but certainly each item was possible. Since none of us know what Sony will ultimately deliver, we only have their official Powerpoint slides.

I did this for people who won't even consider the alternate scenario of Sony Live not equaling 360 Live. No substantion is possible, because Sony has not even promised anything but high level bullet points.

I've said many times. It could be better than 360 Live. I even gave examples of email and a Web browser as features that could put Sony over the top.

I think that's being very fair and very balanced.

My post is to knock some reality in the minds of those who think if "Sony say's it will be, it will be". Also, in Siraris case, he not only believes it will be everything on the slides from E3, but will match everything Microsoft already has AND it will be EASY. EASY? Now that's 100% fanboy or very naive. I say fanboy.

That to me is very unrealistic. I don't believe even a rational Sony fanboy would think it will be EASY.

In order to counter the blind faith argument, I'm merely giving scenarios where Sony delivers the functionality of the bullet points on their slide, but doesn't equal Microsoft's current offering.

I've said before, I don't know more than any one else what they'll actually deliver. I'm just being realistic, that it won't be easy and Sony hasn't given details, so they could deliver a weaker of version of Live in many of the individual areas, but still match their current "promise".

That's my point. Look at both possibilities. For those that haven't used Live it's not easy to understand what it really does from bullet points.

I explained some of the finer details of what those bullet points are and that there are many ways to accomplish a bullet point. Some better than others.

[Siraris]

Kefkataran,

If this was my first run in with Siraris, then I'd agree. However, there is a lot of history between posts between the two of us.

I'm sure you've got your own personal "favorites" on this forum. I won't mention them here, but you have them. If one of them said, "I don't understand ANYTHING in your post and why did you write that..." after you'd spent the effort to respond, it would get you ticked off as well.

Maybe you have a reason to challenge me...

I'm still remember the discussion on ebay sellers of Launch systems with you. You slammed me for that. I was challenged to create a poll. I did. It's split down the middle. There are 6,000 people on Evil Avatar. Roughly 50% so far have stated Thumbs Down on eBay Sellers/scalpers/profiteers.

I expect you to take anyone else's side in a discussion with me. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'll just keep watching and see. Prove me wrong.

I do my best not to carry a grudge forward from any intenet battles, but Siraris knows we don't get along, so when he posts anything like "I don't understand ANYTHING you said". It's going to get things going.

You're really taking this way too seriously, Jack. You are talking about our posts like this is real life, and it's not, it's just a message board. Talking about run-ins, favorites, history, I'm just a guy who's expressing himself and you're taking it way too personally. We're not in a relationship here, I didn't sleep with your wife, we're just two guys on a messageboard. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read what I have to say, or make posts that directly challange me, especially if you can't handle my responses.

I appreciate Kefka and and Rein saying they agree with me. It's not my purpose to try and change peoples opinions, (it's futile enough in real life, I'm not going to waste my time online), but if I say something semi-intelligent every once in a while, I'd hope some people agree with me.

[Jack B]

You're really taking this way too seriously, Jack. You are talking about our posts like this is real life, and it's not, it's just a message board. Talking about run-ins, favorites, history, I'm just a guy who's expressing himself and you're taking it way too personally. We're not in a relationship here, I didn't sleep with your wife, we're just two guys on a messageboard. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read what I have to say, or make posts that directly challange me, especially if you can't handle my responses.

I appreciate Kefka and and Rein saying they agree with me. It's not my purpose to try and change peoples opinions, (it's futile enough in real life, I'm not going to waste my time online), but if I say something semi-intelligent every once in a while, I'd hope some people agree with me.

I don't know why you wrote that??? Also, I don't understand anything you just said. It makes no sense....

Would you try that again?

[Kefkataran]

If one of them said, "I don't understand ANYTHING in your post and why did you write that..." after you'd spent the effort to respond, it would get you ticked off as well.


He never said "I don't understand ANYTHING in your post", nor did he say "Why did you write that". He said he was confused by it and didn't get it. This isn't really challenging you, and it even suggests that it might be a misunderstanding on his part.


I'm still remember the discussion on ebay sellers of Launch systems with you. You slammed me for that. I was challenged to create a poll. I did. It's split down the middle. There are 6,000 people on Evil Avatar. Roughly 50% so far have stated Thumbs Down on eBay Sellers/scalpers/profiteers.


I expect you to take anyone else's side in a discussion with me. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'll just keep watching and see. Prove me wrong.

Wait, what? You think I'm challenging you because of some personal vendetta? Dude, chill out, seriously. I disagreed with you on that subject -- that doesn't mean I think you're an ENEMY. You're way too damned paranoid. This is an INTERNET GAMING FORUM. Chill.

You're really taking this way too seriously, Jack. You are talking about our posts like this is real life, and it's not, it's just a message board. Talking about run-ins, favorites, history, I'm just a guy who's expressing himself and you're taking it way too personally. We're not in a relationship here, I didn't sleep with your wife, we're just two guys on a messageboard. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read what I have to say, or make posts that directly challange me, especially if you can't handle my responses.

That's all I'm saying.

I appreciate Kefka and and Rein saying they agree with me. It's not my purpose to try and change peoples opinions, (it's futile enough in real life, I'm not going to waste my time online), but if I say something semi-intelligent every once in a while, I'd hope some people agree with me.

Hell, I'm not even saying I agree with you, and I don't in several ways. I just think Jack's reaction was unfortunate and unnecessary.

[Jack B]

Jack B, I really like reading your posts. Thank you!

Eran Hawke,

Thanks.

I try my best to be fair and balanced for PC's and all the consoles. They all have their pros and cons, but each of them give us many hours of fun. :)

[Jack B]

He never said "I don't understand ANYTHING in your post", nor did he say "Why did you write that". He said he was confused by it and didn't get it. This isn't really challenging you, and it even suggests that it might be a misunderstanding on his part.

I believe he did say, "ANYTHING" or very close to it.

His specific quote was... I would have to say that I'm a bit confused by everything you wrote.

"confused by everything you wrote". That's not possible IMO, because I wrote a lot... and it's a backhanded slap from someone who's done that to me many other times before. I'm sick of it, specifically from him. It it was someone other than the 3 people on my "heavily dislike" list, I wouldn't react that way.

I also believe he did write "why did you write that" or very close to it.

He also wrote: I'm confused why you posted it.

I write a lengthy response to Originally Posted by Siraris
My interpretation of the service is very positive, and I don't see how it could be bad.

Remember, that was the only quote I used to begin my entire post. That was the sole reason for my post... And he writes.... I'm confused why you posted it... I wrote the post to show "how it could be that bad". We don't know yet.

Don't you don't consider that a ridiculous and argumentative response to my lengthy post?

Wait, what? You think I'm challenging you because of some personal vendetta? Dude, chill out, seriously. I disagreed with you on that subject -- that doesn't mean I think you're an ENEMY. You're way too damned paranoid. This is an INTERNET GAMING FORUM. Chill.


If it's not great. I wouldn't characterize it as paranoid, but you're definitely on my radar and I am expecting you'd take the opposite side on my posts. I don't expect that from any other mods. I only have a very few people I look out for, so it's easy for me to notice when it happens.

I really don't think you appreciated the Kelegacy stuff. If you don't remember, then maybe you're in so many tussle's you can't remember them all. Maybe it's just cooincidence... I try to look at only the current posts and not look backwards at the history, but things aren't changing with Siraris. If hope you and I can find reasonable common ground in the future.

With Kelegacy for example, I've really seen a difference in his posts and respect him more for it. This can change, but Siraris is still Siraris and I'm biting my tongue more often than not.

Hell, I'm not even saying I agree with you, and I don't in several ways. I just think Jack's reaction was unfortunate and unnecessary.

I wasn't reacting to his content, it was his dismissal of my entire post, that pissed me off. It was harsh and meant to be. I'm waiting for Siraris to become more balanced. I don't mind anyone with a differing opinion, as long as they are reasonably open minded (ie aren't a fanboy) and we can have some common ground.

I've seen the faintest of glimmer's in a few posts, but IMO he has a long way to go. Right now IMO, he's still flat out a huge fanboy and combines that with the 'you make no sense type comments' to me quite often. He's either spoiling for a fight or just has a very clumsy writing style.

If you really knew how many other responses in the last few weeks, I've edited out my frustration, you'd be proud.

I could bury the hatchett with Siraris. I'm just waiting for him to be balanced with fewer absolutes in his replys and hopefully we could get past this.

[PhilR8]

I love you Jack B. If you ever need a bullet shield, I'm your man.

[Jack B]

I love you Jack B. If you ever need a bullet shield, I'm your man.

Thanks man! It's hell out here sometimes in battle and we can always use backup! Grenade!! :D

[Siraris]

I believe he did say, "ANYTHING" or very close to it.

I could bury the hatchett with Siraris. I'm just waiting for him to be balanced with fewer absolutes in his replys and hopefully we could get past this.

I'm not going to sit on the fence like you are and say I like everything, because I don't. I'm not going around being a troll about the 360, and I'm a fan of the Wii, so I don't see what the problem is. Smattering "IMO" in ones posts doesn't make any difference, EVERYTHING on here is someones opinion. If I say "The PS3 is going to suck" or I say "It's my opinion that the PS3 is going to suck" it means the EXACT same thing.

I don't make giant posts about what something is going to be or not to be, especially when I don't have the technical background to understand even a portion of what goes into the design. You don't even clearly state that what you posted was something YOU wrote. All you said was that you posted it in another thread, and that you aren't bound to what it says. I could copy a government document, post it in this thread, and then say that I don't completely agree with everything in it. You say you wrote this post to "educate people who don't think about the other side of things", but the way you wrote it, it could easily come across that what you say is fact and not your opinion. If you are so open to everything, why make a huge post about what you think the PS3's online service will NOT do? It makes no sense to me, and it just seems like you're trying to be a troll while keeping a nice guy exterior. If I wrote a big post about what the Wii controller might NOT do, what purpose would it serve? People can form their own ideas about things, they don't need some guy they do not know or trust on a message board writing conjecture.

I'm not going to be all buddy buddy with you, I'm sorry. You don't seem to realize that this is just a messageboard, and you continue to look at it like a gradschool playground. You have a heavy dislike list? Who the hell says "Heavy dislike?". You also seem to go from one extreme to the other. One post you're all happy go lucky, and the next post you're FREAKING out, spattering fuck yous everywhere you go. You're getting "pissed off" by TEXT ON A SCREEN ON A GAMING MESSAGEBOARD.

[Jack B]

I'm not going to sit on the fence like you are and say I like everything, because I don't. I'm not going around being a troll about the 360, and I'm a fan of the Wii, so I don't see what the problem is. Smattering "IMO" in ones posts doesn't make any difference, EVERYTHING on here is someones opinion. If I say "The PS3 is going to suck" or I say "It's my opinion that the PS3 is going to suck" it means the EXACT same thing.

I don't make giant posts about what something is going to be or not to be, especially when I don't have the technical background to understand even a portion of what goes into the design. You don't even clearly state that what you posted was something YOU wrote. All you said was that you posted it in another thread, and that you aren't bound to what it says. I could copy a government document, post it in this thread, and then say that I don't completely agree with everything in it. You say you wrote this post to "educate people who don't think about the other side of things", but the way you wrote it, it could easily come across that what you say is fact and not your opinion. If you are so open to everything, why make a huge post about what you think the PS3's online service will NOT do? It makes no sense to me, and it just seems like you're trying to be a troll while keeping a nice guy exterior. If I wrote a big post about what the Wii controller might NOT do, what purpose would it serve? People can form their own ideas about things, they don't need some guy they do not know or trust on a message board writing conjecture.

I'm not going to be all buddy buddy with you, I'm sorry. You don't seem to realize that this is just a messageboard, and you continue to look at it like a gradschool playground. You have a heavy dislike list? Who the hell says "Heavy dislike?". You also seem to go from one extreme to the other. One post you're all happy go lucky, and the next post you're FREAKING out, spattering fuck yous everywhere you go. You're getting "pissed off" by TEXT ON A SCREEN ON A GAMING MESSAGEBOARD.

Somethings never change. The way your mind works is interesting to say the least.

The reason I'm "all happy go lucky" is because I love games, all platforms and the great discussions by Evil Avatar members.

The reason I suddenly "Freak out" is... when I see a fanboy ripping on someone without any sense of balance and fair play I will often step in. You do that alot and don't realize it, so my "happy go lucky" to "freaking out" confuses you.

I've defended every console and the PC.

Since you're a Sony fanboy, I've also defended Phil Harrison, Ken Kutaragi and Sony in many posts. And will continue to do so, when I feel it's warranted. You beloved Sony has a lot of good things going for it, but so does the Wii the 360 and the PC, but you never see those sides of equation, thus we bump into each other a lot.

Until that changes, we'll quite often not see eye to eye.

[Siraris]

Somethings never change. The way your mind works is interesting to say the least.

The reason I'm "all happy go lucky" is because I love games, all platforms and the great discussions by Evil Avatar members.

The reason I suddenly "Freak out" is... when I see a fanboy ripping on someone without any sense of balance and fair play I will often step in. You do that alot and don't realize it, so my "happy go lucky" to "freaking out" confuses you.

I've defended every console and the PC.

Since you're a Sony fanboy, I've also defended Phil Harrison, Ken Kutaragi and Sony in many posts. And will continue to do so, when I feel it's warranted. You beloved Sony has a lot of good things going for it, but so does the Wii the 360 and the PC, but you never see those sides of equation, thus we bump into each other a lot.

Until that changes, we'll quite often not see eye to eye.

I'm happy you love games, I do too. I have been playing PC games for over 20 years, I own an Atari 2600, Intelivision Nintendo, SNES, Gameboy, DS, Gamecube, N64, PS1, PS2, X-Box.

When I do I rip on people aside from Reanimated? The only other person who I even have to rip on is you, because you make posts that are often confusing and many times you say things like "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll make a post anyways". You attacked me before, claiming that I don't know anything for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than some sort of grudge you have.

And you defending people is a lot different than your childish rampage that included such famous quotes as:

Man, you're dense sometimes. Trying reading the quoted part in a post. Usually, the part right below it relates to the quoted part. Your quoted part was only 2 sentences. It's not that Fucking hard!!!!

Quit with the fucking generalities! Damn it I hate your "everything", "nothing", "always", "never" type bullshit. As Al Swearingen would say, "Go fuck yourself" if "NOTHING" I said made any sense. You're an ass or terrible at expressing yourself.

If that's not going from Happy Go Lucky to batshit crazy, I don't know what is.

I can't stress enough what a stupid term Fanboy is. As I said, I am not going to pick Microsoft and Nintendo and Sony and be happy with all of them, it's impossible. No one likes every sports team, no one is a republican, a democrat, an independent, no one is Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Bhuddist, you have to pick something. I don't like what Microsoft is doing, I like what Nintendo is doing, I happen to like what Sony is doing more. I am a Sony fan, just like I'm a Red Sox fan, a Volkswagen fan, a fan of Chipotle over Baja Fresh. What in the world does it matter? I'm not going to say, "I love every console yayyy" because I don't; that's ridiculous. I was a HUGE Nintendo fanboy from NES -> SNES, and then when the N64 arrived I couldn't stand Nintendo, and they redeemed themselves a bit with the Gamecube and the DS.

I leave you with one question. Why do you need to defend every console and PC? Do you have some sort of vested interest in doing so? You're a 48 year old man (supposedly), don't you have something better to do than be the defender of video games? I don't know how long you have been posting on the internet, but it can't be very long. You take this all so personally, and for what? You have a "heavy dislike" list, you have different labels for different people, you take posts personally, you want everyone to like you, and that's just not how the internet (or real life) works.

You don't know me, I don't know you, and I would venture to say that you probably don't really know any of the other people on this forum, yet you're making this out like we're all good buddies. I am happy to read peoples posts, I will respect some and not respect others, I will agree and disagree with people, but this isn't the real world. When I click the X in the corner of my screen, the browser goes away and it's back to real life. No one on this board has any bearing on my life nor should they. I'm not saying that if I met someone on this board in real life that I would brush them off and not consider them as real, but we aren't in real life, we're posting on a virtual message board.

[Jack B]

I leave you with one question. Why do you need to defend every console and PC?

I defend a lot of things. I challenge one sided bias. I challenge you, because it's not that you like Sony more.... It's that I don't see you acknowledging the other posters points. Or coming up with reasonable and balanced discussions. Your posts are very predictable. We've covered this ground many times.

I'm not sure when you'll understand.

Do you have some sort of vested interest in doing so?

Yes, you got me, I do have a vested interest. I appreciate intelligent, creative, balanced discussions about gaming.

You're a 48 year old man (supposedly), don't you have something better to do than be the defender of video games? I don't know how long you have been posting on the internet, but it can't be very long.

My first online service was Genie, then Compuserve, a short stint with Prodigy. Much shorter stint with AOL and the list goes on. I learned to type as a sophomore in high school and was posting before you were born.

You don't know me, I don't know you, and I would venture to say that you probably don't really know any of the other people on this forum, yet you're making this out like we're all good buddies.

Classic. You have less than 100 posts and called Kekartaran, Kefka in your post, thanking him for defending you. The shortening of his name would indicate you tried to make him your buddy with the shorter name.

I expect you'll deny this. Go ahead. How long have you been calling him Kefka, so don't lecture me on buddies.

I'm sure you could care less about my respect, but you'll never get it from me until I see less Sony Fanboy and more balanced and intelligent posts from you.

[Siraris]

. You have less than 100 posts and called Kekartaran, Kefka in your post, thanking him for defending you. The shortening of his name would indicate you tried to make him your buddy with the shorter name.

I expect you'll deny this. Go ahead. How long have you been calling him Kefka, so don't lecture me on buddies.

I'm sure you could care less about my respect, but you'll never get it from me until I see less Sony Fanboy and more balanced and intelligent posts from you.

Ok I'm laughing now, that's hilarious.

I've never addressed Kefkataran in my life, until today. I referred to him as Kefka because I could only remember the first part of his name............ I referred to you as Jack and we aren't buddies.

[Zechs01]

Wow, just....... Wow!
schiz·o·phre·ni·a (skts-frn-, -frn-)
n.
Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe and is caused by genetic, other biological, and psychosocial factors.

A situation or condition that results from the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities.

[Kefkataran]

If it's not great. I wouldn't characterize it as paranoid, but you're definitely on my radar and I am expecting you'd take the opposite side on my posts. I don't expect that from any other mods. I only have a very few people I look out for, so it's easy for me to notice when it happens.

Christ, dude, you need to take a vacation from the forums. I'm "on your radar"? Geez. If that's how you're going to feel about me, it's not even worth having discussions with you.


The reason I suddenly "Freak out" is... when I see a fanboy ripping on someone without any sense of balance and fair play I will often step in. You do that alot and don't realize it, so my "happy go lucky" to "freaking out" confuses you.

This thread he was hardly ripping on anything. You may have disagreed with his opinion and disliked his reaction your disagreement, but he wasn't half as rude as you were. I understand this may happen in other threads, but it definitely didn't here.


I expect you'll deny this. Go ahead. How long have you been calling him Kefka, so don't lecture me on buddies.

Dude, I barely know Siraris. I have very little clue who he is, honestly. We've never really talked, that I can recall, before this thread. I seriously don't understand where all this paranoia and overseriousness is coming from, but you should relax, man.

[Skizott]

So..this thread turned to shit.

[Kefkataran]

So..this thread turned to shit.

You say that like it's a surprise. But seriously, with the attitude many of the people around here seem to be taking for this whole console war shit, every thread about one of the big three is bound to turn into shit.

[cppcrusader]

You say that like it's a surprise. But seriously, with the attitude many of the people around here seem to be taking for this whole console war shit, every thread about one of the big three is bound to turn into shit.

I don't know I think I could actually start a thread about puppies and same thing may happen.

[Kefkataran]

I don't know I think I could actually start a thread about puppies and same thing may happen.

Very potentially. It's just more apt to happen with this kind.

[Kamalot]

You're really taking this way too seriously, Jack. You are talking about our posts like this is real life, and it's not, it's just a message board.
If this isn't a real exchange of ideas, thoughts and comments, then why are you here?

[Kefkataran]

If this isn't a real exchange of ideas, thoughts and comments, then why are you here?

There's nothing involved exchanging ideas, thoughs, or comments when you flip out the way Jack did at a rather timid post.

[Jack B]

There's nothing involved exchanging ideas, thoughs, or comments when you flip out the way Jack did at a rather timid post.

Since, you continue to give your opinions about this post. I'll give my closing thoughts as well. I'd hoped it would just die, but what the hell.

After re-reading my post. I stand by my responses to Siraris. I started very slowly as it keep building with each response from Siraris.

He is to me, like EB Farnum is to Seth Bullock (reference for Deadwood fans). I can only take so much and I reached my boiling point as stand by my responses. Siraris has been a thorn in my side and I responded.

As for my responses to you. Although, you agreed Siraris was making valid points, I should not have responded to you like I did.

For that I am sorry. For my responses to Siraris. On retrospect today, they did an excellent job of expressing my feelings. If anything, I held back a little.