PS3 Shortages Expected at Launch... Mass Hysteria Ensues

[bapenguin]

The XBox 360 launch was an absolute fiasco. There were hardly any systems available to people that wanted them, and those that were available ended up on Ebay for twice the price. It took almost 3 months before there was some actual availability.

It looks like Sony fans are in for an even worse time. According to Gamesfirst (http://www.gamesfirst.com/index.php?id=1355), there was an internal Gamestop/EB Games email sent the other day that stated this:

A local store that received between 50 and 100 Xbox 360s at launch is expecting to get no more than 20 PS3s.
We all know that the Playstation franchise is much more popular than the XBox franchise last generation selling more than 3x as many systems. But it looks like there will be 1/3 the available PS3s for 3x as many fans this holiday season when the PS3 launches.

The retail stores are going to be bona fide war zones.

[ElectricMonk]

or maybe nobody will really care that much because it will be $600 and there will be a 360 avaliable to pick up the slack

[bapenguin]

My local EB got 27 XBox 360's at launch. They said they expect to get 3-4 PS3s.

:(

[Grimgrock]

Just think if the retail price of this thing is over $600, what the console will go for on eBay. $1200? $1500?

Oh the price of blinding loyalty to a company that doesn't deserve it.

[bapenguin]

Just think if the retail price of this thing is over $600, what the console will go for on eBay. $1200? $1500?

Oh the price of blinding loyalty to a company that doesn't deserve it.

I bet in the first 2 weeks on EBay it cracks 2k.

[Kelegacy]

I bet in the first 2 weeks on EBay it cracks 2k.
I NEED to get a preorder in!

[Liquidize105]

Which console launch isn't a total fiasco?

Early adopters are money trees. The money is so easy I'm even thinking about it. :p

[Jack Random]

I'm going to grab some popcorn and head to best buy on launch night, maybe i'll bring a megaphone :)

[antoniogaud]

Mark my words. PS3 will not launch in 2006.

[Eran Hawke]

Don't expect to be able to walk into a store and pick up a PS3 on a whim until this time next year.

Honestly though, who cares? There are surely 5 million stupid people with $600 to piss away on a crappy Betamax.

[CaptStu]

Mark my words. PS3 will not launch in 2006.
I totally agree with you. There is no way it will launch. And when it does, the PS3 will have a horrible "lemon" rate. Too much untested technology.

[Eran Hawke]

Mark my words. PS3 will not launch in 2006.Your words have been marked.

Why do you say that PS3 won't launch this year? I bet they launch but in VERY limited quantities, perhaps even fewer than this report indicates.

If PS3 does not launch this year, they may as well give the *#(! up!

[Sl1pstream]

I'm thinking of buying one with my employee discount (15%) and then selling it on ebay. Too bad we didn't get 360's in the first 2 months after release. If I don't open the box, I can return it within 2 weeks.

[Dracula-X]

Don't expect to be able to walk into a store and pick up a PS3 on a whim until this time next year.

Honestly though, who cares? There are surely 5 million stupid people with $600 to piss away on a crappy Betamax.
Crawled out of Kamalot's anus to troll I see. How unsurprising.

[Spigot]

I think Sony needs to let the stores know exactly how many they're getting, even lowball it by a few units if need be. I know that my local EB is already refusing to take preorders until they get a solid promise from Sony as to how many units they'll be getting as they were really burned last time. It makes the store look bad.

Granted, I'll just be getting a Wii :)

[Shifter]

It's not the $600 that will set system sales back, it's the lack (so far) of interesting launch titles. I bought both the PS1 and PS2 on launch day, but so far I see no reason to pick up a PS3. BTW I already also own an XBOX and 360 as well -- I'm equal opportunity.

To be honest, the 360 is feeling like a waste of money at this point too...

[Johan]

What, not a single Sony supporter in this thread...just several vultures circling over the potential carcass of the PS3 launch? It's all speculation until it actually happens; it may be worse, it may be better...there may even be more delays than just waiting til November...speculation.

I'm no Sony fan, but I hope their launch goes better than with the 360, not the same or worse, because the 360 launch was a debacle. I didn't get a 360 til last month...*sniffle*

[SexualChoc]

Speaking to a friend who works at GAME (UK equivilant of EB), he said the UK would most likely get 250,000 consoles, with GAME getting 100,000 of them. Divided over the countries, it came to about 3-4 per store. And we only get the 60GB too. It's more than likely that the people who work there will get them first. I can only hope that I can get one at my work.

[Borys]

Mark my words. PS3 will not launch in 2006.

Quoted and favourited so it will be easier to make a fool out of you later on :)

$2K on eBay easily.

[Limech]

Sony knows there will be shortages. That's why the high price. Why sell systems at a huge loss to see them sold on eBay for 3x the price? Sell them high, people will buy them anyway. Make an extra $100 on every system sold the first 3-4 months.
Then cut the price by $100 once a regular Joe can walk into a store and get one. Makes sense.

Obviously, they can't tell you up front that's their plan otherwise people would get mad. Supply and demand. I'm sure Sony is aware of the concept.

[antoniogaud]

The high price isn't because of shortages, its because of the technology inside the PS3.

Speaking of which, the latest BluRay delay (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sony-bdps1-bluray-player-delayed-179728.php) is the reason I believe that Sony will slip the PS3 until 2007. Pioneer is also delaying their BluRay player (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/06/pioneer_delays_bdp-hd1_blu-ray/).

A spokesperson for Pioneer Electronics confirmed the company is delaying the release of its BDP-HD1 Blu-ray Disc player. The report did not state the duration of the delay, though the spokesperson cited lack of progress in Blu-ray Disc technology development as a cause.

This cannot be good news at such a late date. They should be manufacturing PS3's in a month or two to get the numbers they are looking for at launch, not trying to finalize specs! With rumors that the cell yields are horrible, unless someone waves a magic wand, the PS3 will slip to 2007.

[AspectVoid]

If Sony was smart, I think it's entirely possible that they don't want to get burned like Microsoft did, so they're promising stores the absolute smallest amount, and will then try to get more units to the stores.

Look at it this way, Microsoft promised a store 60 X360s and shipped them 35. That's 25 pissed customers. Sony promises the store 10 PS3s, but ends up shipping them 35. That's 25 happy customers. Which company will get better press for their move? Most likely Sony.

[mightbe]

I'd say they're trying to scare up pre-orders but I'm guessing most places that have taken names already have a list longer than my arm.

I wonder how many will bow out when the price is mentioned.

[normyk]

I wonder what percentage of consoles will even be sold to non-employees this time around. What incentive does a store have to actually sell the units they receive to a customer when they can dump them for three times retail online. This is pure ebay gold.

It kind of sucks (and is also kind of funny at the same time) that when somebody buys a ps3 for $2000 on ebay that sony will still have lost money on it.

[phantomhitman]

i heard the preorders only come with the ps, you have to upgrade to get the 3. The core version is called the bs3.

[bapenguin]

i heard the preorders only come with the ps, you have to upgrade to get the 3. The core version is called the bs3.

You're on a real roll lately.

[AniAko]

My bets are that a couple of stores are going to be BURNT to the ground in the melees that ensue. I'm planning on taking a day off of work and taping the whole thing. It's gonna be great :D

[TrackZero]

Mark my words. PS3 will not launch in 2006.

Oh, it'll "launch". But in all practicality, people won't see it in stores as something to buy until early summer '07.

[TrackZero]

My bets are that a couple of stores are going to be BURNT to the ground in the melees that ensue. I'm planning on taking a day off of work and taping the whole thing. It's gonna be great :D

You know that dickhead that did it last time to going to get his hands on a PS3 and smash it in front of a crowd of people again just to video tape their reaction. Hopefully this time he'll get the shit kicked out of him.

[raze2026]

Your saying a man would pay $600 dollars just to break his purchase and make people freak out? There's an entire dimension of stupidity there that may never be seen again. Man, I hope someone has a video recorder on that day!

[51|RandoM]

crappy Betamax.

yeah, some people are willing to spend money on technically superior gear.

[bapenguin]

My bets are that a couple of stores are going to be BURNT to the ground in the melees that ensue. I'm planning on taking a day off of work and taping the whole thing. It's gonna be great :D

I'm down. Me and you will film the official video footage for EvilAvatar.com :)

bapenguin: "This is bapenguin reporting Live for EvilAvatar.com in front of EBGames for the Playstation 3 launch."
Random Guy: "Hey....hey!"
bapenguin: "ughm...anyway....mayhem has ensued as the entire XBox 360 section was set ablaze due to the fact that ...."
Random Guy: "HEY! Fucking BA. Did you say EvilAvatar.com?"
bapenguin: "uhh....yeah...why?"
Inevitable Winter: "Dude...I think we should go..."
Random Guy:: "You guys are a bunch of fucking Sony hating monkey fairies."
bapenguin:: "Chill out man...I just wanted to say this store only got 2 PS3s. You know we are the site with..."
Inevitable Winter: "Dude...we NEED TO GO NOW!"

Suddenly random guy morphs into a Giant Robotic History Crab. Due to the PS3 shortages ba is unable to secure one for realtime weapon changes for massive damage. All those onsite perish under it's metalic claws of doom.

[51|RandoM]

Your saying a man would pay $600 dollars just to break his purchase and make people freak out? There's an entire dimension of stupidity there that may never be seen again. Man, I hope someone has a video recorder on that day!

People get paid to pull stunts like that every day.


Be funny if the console flops and the ebay lamers get stuck with stuff they can't sell for massive profit.

[Reanimated]

I'm guaranteed to have at least 2 systems on launch day to sell to dipshit sony fans on Ebay. It's nice having store managers as your good friends. :)

[AniAko]

Be funny if the console flops and the ebay lamers get stuck with stuff they can't sell for massive profit.

Never happen, and for one reason.

There's children out there that want this system. They don't care how expensive it is, and they don't care what we say about it. They just WANT IT.

Out of those children 0% of their parents are going to stand in line on launch day (or several days prior) to get a PS3, they probably won't even know about it. They have big important jobs, which pay boat loads of money. So when Xmas comes and their spoiled brats are throwing temper tantrums on Santa's lap and mom realizes dad HAS TO GET ONE for XMas, he'll open that big wallet and dump it out on Ebay to get one.

[Johan]

i heard the preorders only come with the ps, you have to upgrade to get the 3. The core version is called the bs3.

I found this quite amusing...lol :D

[Kefkataran]

Fuck. Amanda and I are now thinking we won't have the money (much less the manuverability) to get one of these on launch for Ebaying. Dammit, that would've been so nice too. :(

[AniAko]

Fuck. Amanda and I are now thinking we won't have the money (much less the manuverability) to get one of these on launch for Ebaying. Dammit, that would've been so nice too. :(

Credit man, put it on Discover, put reserve on Ebay at the cost of the unit, and wait... If anything you break even, and if you can't sell it... return it to the store (unopened) for money back. I recommend Walmart or other big stores with lax return policies

[Kefkataran]

Inevitable, only problem then is actually getting one at launch. But it's not a bad idea. Manda has a credit card she has AWESOME credit on and never uses. Damn. You got me thinking again.

Anyone know anywhere that's actually doing pre-orders?

[bean19]

or maybe nobody will really care that much because it will be $600 and there will be a 360 avaliable to pick up the slack

This will be really interesting to see. There are definitley people who will want to pick this up at any price, but if even a hardcore gamer like myself is balking at the $600 price tag, then I imagine that people who think that $200-$300 is FAR too much for a console will also not even consider it.

[bean19]

Credit man, put it on Discover, put reserve on Ebay at the cost of the unit, and wait... If anything you break even, and if you can't sell it... return it to the store (unopened) for money back. I recommend Walmart or other big stores with lax return policies

Actually, you lose your time/effort and ebay's fee, so you'd need to put the reserve price up around $650 just to break even.

However, my guess is that there will be a shortage on the $600 units and that people will be able to go in and buy $500 units if they want them.

[Kefkataran]

You guys are crazy if you think this won't be selling like nuts on Ebay. People who aren't in-the-know gamers and are rich will pick this up for a LOT. guaranteed.

[Rook34]

This is terrible news. With the type of shortages there will be, coupled with multiple SKU's, throw in a few uninformed buyers and this looks like a really great recipe for failure. On top of that I bet this will hurt the Sony brand name a LOT. Honestly, at this point, they should wait. Though they would miss the holiday window - it sounds like they're going to miss the holiday window anyway because they can't make them fast enough. The people that are going to buy a PS3 (especially at those prices)are going to buy them regardless what time of year it is. Sony knows it's going to have a tough time so why not cut your losses and at least launch right and wait until you have enough units? Someone else in this thread wrote to mark their words that the PS3 won't launch in 2006. For Sony's sake, I hope they are right.

[AntB]

I'm putting in 5 or 6 preorders come launch. I will buy myself a new car.

[wangstramedeous]

You guys keep forgetting something critical. A real xbox 360 or ps3 experience doesn't just pertain to the system - you'll want at least 2 controllers and a number of other peripherals (including games of course). Fact is, if you really want to get a PS3, you're not dropping $600 bucks. It more in the ball park of $800-$1000 Perhaps even more.

In either case, when is the launch date? Nov 16? Hope that's a weekend cuz I'll be heading off to toronto and get aquainted with the other bozo's on the sidewalk.

[oldjadedgamer]

yeah, some people are willing to spend money on technically superior gear.

I agree, I still own my laserdisc player

[Zanzibar]

yeah, some people are willing to spend money on technically superior gear.<cough>Toshiba HD-DVD early adopters (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/toshiba-trying-to-fix-its-lame-hd-dvd-players-178657.php)<cough>

[Yeti2005]

You guys are crazy if you think this won't be selling like nuts on Ebay. People who aren't in-the-know gamers and are rich will pick this up for a LOT. guaranteed.

I'm definitely picking one to sell on Ebay. 360s were going for well over a grand on launch day on Ebay. I sold an extra 360 for about $800. The only real problem is a.) find a place to pre-order and b.) praying that the pre-order bundle isn't going to be in the $1000 - $1500 range.

[Zanzibar]

You guys keep forgetting something critical. A real xbox 360 or ps3 experience doesn't just pertain to the system - you'll want at least 2 controllers and a number of other peripherals (including games of course). Fact is, if you really want to get a PS3, you're not dropping $600 bucks. It more in the ball park of $800-$1000 Perhaps even more.

In either case, when is the launch date? Nov 16? Hope that's a weekend cuz I'll be heading off to toronto and get aquainted with the other bozo's on the sidewalk.

Sony PS3 = $600
3 games ($59 each) = $177
1 extra controller = $50
Subtotal: $827
Tax (Ca: 7.25%) = $60
TOTAL: $887

That ain't including any Blu-Ray movies, or an HDTV, for that matter.

Of course, I paid $430 for my X360 premium with tax, and bought 2 extra controllers, plus a play n charge kit, and 2 games. That's $700 right there, so I definitely am not throwing stones. Damn, it's EXPENSIVE to be a gamer.

[overdrivechao]

Fuck war zones. it's preorder only. we are gonna start taking them october 3, and we'll be full up october 3 in the afternoon.There are surely 5 million stupid people with $600 to piss away on a crappy Betamax. I love the idiots here... seriously, you guys ake me smile.

[overdrivechao]

Sony PS3 = $600
3 games ($59 each) = $177
1 extra controller = $50
Subtotal: $827
Tax (Ca: 7.25%) = $60
TOTAL: $887

Xbox 360= $399.99
3 games= $177
1 official wireless adapter= $100
HDDVD Peripheral= at least $150, right?
1 extra controller = $50
Xbox Live (1 year only)= $40
Plus tax=
MORE THAN THE PS3

Two can play that game.

[Deathbane27]

This is not good. I thought the 360 shortages were bad, this is just nuts.

Now I'm curious as to the Wii's availability at launch. We still don't even have a final price, but...

Nintendo, give us some good news! :(

[Zanzibar]

Xbox 360= $399.99
3 games= $177
1 official wireless adapter= $100
HDDVD Peripheral= at least $150, right?
1 extra controller = $50
Xbox Live (1 year only)= $40
Plus tax=
MORE THAN THE PS3

Two can play that game.

I doubt the HD-DVD will be more than $100, but I agree with the wireless adapter. It's CRIMINAL for MS to charge $100 for it.

Then again, anyone with a spare slot in their existing wireless bridge (like me!) can plug in for free, while Sony FORCES you to pay more for something you may not need. But, that's been Sony's plan all along, hasn't it? *cough*BLU-RAY*cough* ;)

[overdrivechao]

I doubt the HD-DVD will be more than $100, but I agree with the wireless adapter. It's CRIMINAL for MS to charge $100 for it.

Then again, anyone with a spare slot in their existing wireless bridge (like me!) can plug in for free, while Sony FORCES you to pay more for something you may not need. But, that's been Sony's plan all along, hasn't it? *cough*BLU-RAY*cough* ;)

Microsoft's modular approach does seem to be more flexible. I personally don't see how I can afford a PS3 OR a 360 for those prices. Without an HDTV theres no point at all in getting a PS3 for me, besides playing these obviously awesome must-play games. But is MGS4 worth $650 to me? Honestly, I love the series but no. Not really.

[absolut taco]

Xbox 360= $399.99
3 games= $177
1 official wireless adapter= $100
HDDVD Peripheral= at least $150, right?
1 extra controller = $50
Xbox Live (1 year only)= $40
Plus tax=
MORE THAN THE PS3

Two can play that game.
Why the fuck do you include the HD-DVD player and Wi-Fi? It's a game console, dumbass!

[oldjadedgamer]

Xbox 360= $399.99
3 games= $177
1 official wireless adapter= $100
HDDVD Peripheral= at least $150, right?
1 extra controller = $50
Xbox Live (1 year only)= $40
Plus tax=
MORE THAN THE PS3

Two can play that game.

The difference here is that you have a *choice* if you want those extra things or not with the 360.

Not every person wants every single extra. It's nice to know you can buy the lowest model and upgrade rather then being forced on you from the start.

[TrackZero]

Fuck war zones. it's preorder only. we are gonna start taking them october 3, and we'll be full up october 3 in the afternoon. I love the idiots here... seriously, you guys ake me smile.

I don't believe this was refering to places that take preorders, obviously. Where you work isn't the centre of the universe. So don't go flinging around "idiot" unless you want it shoved back in your face.

[ruceree88]

To everyone that will be out wading through the seething throngs, have fun! Me? I will be at home and happily playing games that I have yet to get around to. I have such a back log that I should be caught up by the time the X360 drops in price.

[Jack B]

Microsoft's modular approach does seem to be more flexible. I personally don't see how I can afford a PS3 OR a 360 for those prices. Without an HDTV theres no point at all in getting a PS3 for me, besides playing these obviously awesome must-play games. But is MGS4 worth $650 to me? Honestly, I love the series but no. Not really.

Overdrivechao,

Good point about the HDTV. I wonder how many 360 owners without HDTV and without a Gold Account and interest in online multiplayer really see the value.

I have a dedicated HDTV for the 360 and love online multiplayer, but if neither of those came into play, it wouldn't be nearly the exciting experience.

A lot of people still can't afford HDTV's and not everyone likes online multiplayer. If that's the case, then $400 or $600 plus extras for a MS or Sony console is a lot to pay...

[Mr.Condescension]

My local EB got 27 XBox 360's at launch. They said they expect to get 3-4 PS3s.


All the gamestops I've talked to said they aren't accepting pre-orders because Sony hasn't given them firm numbers for the launch for each store. They will start taking pre-orders in September when they have actual news from Sony. Considering the gamestops and gamecrazys in my area have absolutely no clue how many PS3s they'll get (5, 10, 50, 200) because they have been given no news whatsoever from Sony, it seems unlikely that one store was given info.

There very well may be shortages, but it sounds like employee chatter and not an official memo of any sort.

[Mr.Condescension]

Granted, I'll just be getting a Wii :)

I don't know what makes you think the Wii will be immune from supply shortages as well.

[Zanzibar]

I don't know what makes you think the Wii will be immune from supply shortages as well.
They may not be 'immune,' but Nintendo has had completed, final-hardware disc playback machines out to us devs as of April. We burned our E3 DVDs on full dev stations and played the games on the playback kits for testing, and they were fantastic. If mass-production hasn't already started yet, I'd be surprised.

As far as I know, there has yet to be a single final-version PS3 created.

[OrangePulp]

Shit, looks like I should scrounge up 600 dollars of... investment capital, by november. That and try to get a preorder in. 300% profit or more? Hell yes.

[donkeydrop]

This doesn't really tell us anything about the total supply that will be available. The fact is, not long before the 360 launch Gamestop/EB corporate realised they were missing out on a huge money maker, and so even though they had already pre-sold all their launch allocation through their stores they started selling more bundles online. This of course screwed a lot of their regular customers who didnt get the console they paid for until months later, but Gamestop made a sh*tload of money so what did they care. Those bundles make 10x the profit of a bare console sale.

Of course this tactic was obvious to everyone, including MS who were not too happy since they were taking the heat. As a result Gamestop was not high on their priority list for resupply. Fast forward a year, and Gamestop have learned a lot. They want to keep the PS3's flowing from Sony so they are planning well in advance, taking minimal pre-orders at their stores. Most of their consoles will be tied up in bundles sold online.

Off topic, but anyone else noticed at their local EB/Gamestop that when you go to buy a new game their computer now pulls up an entry showing if they have a used copy of the game, which they then try to sell you? I bet the game companies love that. :mad:

[oldjadedgamer]

They may not be 'immune,' but Nintendo has had completed, final-hardware disc playback machines out to us devs as of April. We burned our E3 DVDs on full dev stations and played the games on the playback kits for testing, and they were fantastic. If mass-production hasn't already started yet, I'd be surprised.

As far as I know, there has yet to be a single final-version PS3 created.

That's good to know. I worked on a GameCube launch title and we didn't get our NR-Readers until a few weeks before the Japanese launch.

[Ajguy]

Honestly, I don't blame Sony or MS for the shortages at launch (though it is their fault to a degree). It's those jackasses that buy systems only to sell them on Ebay for double the price. These greedy bastards are the reason systems are so scarce. When I waited in line for my 360, the guy in line next to me told me in addition to the system he was getting at the Target we were in front of, he had three systems pre-ordered, paid off, and waiting for him that day. His plan was to sell the three pre-ordered ones and keep this for himself. This guy jeopardized what for some stores was half their allotment. It's just wrong and sad. I wish there was some way of making reselling these consoles on Ebay illegal (and Jimmy Buffett tickets while I'm on the subject), but that can just never happen.

[Shifter]

If I were Sony I would absolutely engineer a shortage. What better way to build huge coverage in the media?

[Ajguy]

If I were Sony I would absolutely engineer a shortage. What better way to build huge coverage in the media?

The problem with that theory is that shortages at a console launch has become the status quo. Whereas the thought of camping out for anything last gen was laughable to me, I found myself in line for 12 hours for a 360. It's just become part of the console launch ritual.

Hell, I remember seeing a Saturn at Toys R Us and not even knowing it was out. Just got one that day no fuss or anything. Same goes for SNES and Genesis way back when. I even got a Dreamcast on 9/9/99 with no preorders or anything. Just called around a bit.

[Plays4Pants]

The problem with that theory is that shortages at a console launch has become the status quo. Whereas the thought of camping out for anything last gen was laughable to me, I found myself in line for 12 hours for a 360. It's just become part of the console launch ritual.

Hell, I remember seeing a Saturn at Toys R Us and not even knowing it was out. Just got one that day no fuss or anything. Same goes for SNES and Genesis way back when. I even got a Dreamcast on 9/9/99 with no preorders or anything. Just called around a bit.

Hey all, just joined this forum as i respect 75% of you guys and that's darn good for a gaming forum ;) .

Just wanted to comment that these rituals are created by people like you. if you don't like it don't do it. Microsoft profitted (oddly) by not giving people enough consoles instead of being punished.
So if you want them to stop this new trend then this is what you do...don't wait in line. don't buy one till you find one. Go do something else with your time. You will be ok without your 360 for 3 months...i promise you. And you parents that pay ebayers more than 10% over retail on a system have snotty a$$hole kids. Go tell your kids to do something else with their time...they will be ok without their 360 for 3 months...i promise. Just say Santa thought you spend too much time infront of the tv and thinks you're a total loser and bought you a tennis racket instead.

[Mr.Condescension]

As far as I know, there has yet to be a single final-version PS3 created.

For all we know, the remote and sensor panel could be the thing that holds them up. Who knows?

edit: I'm referring to the Wii, of course.

[Zanzibar]

For all we know, the remote and sensor panel could be the thing that holds them up. Who knows?

edit: I'm referring to the Wii, of course.

Sure, there's always the possibility of a last-minute mundane problem holding up the thing, but the Wii has almost no brand-new groundbreaking hardware; everything's based on existing, inexpensive mass-produced technology (accelerometers and the like). The PS3, however, is another issue entirely. We're hearing about how the Cell has a high manufacturing failure rate, and we're STILL hearing about the Blu-Ray format issues. Unless they clear these issues up, like, YESTERDAY, we're adding up to either ANOTHER delay, or incredible shortages of the system at launch.

Add to that the troubles the developers are experiencing with getting the promised horsepower out of the PS3 RSX, it would not surprise me if Sony is forced to make another delay.

[dr_wily]

All the normal guys not calling around every fucking day or owning up and buying one at a premium or with a bundle will just have to wait 6-9 months to get one.

Thats what happened to me with the 360..

[Mr.Condescension]

Add to that the troubles the developers are experiencing with getting the promised horsepower out of the PS3 RSX, it would not surprise me if Sony is forced to make another delay.

I hadn't heard any bad responses to the RSX. Link please? :confused:

[Spigot]

Since my name is at the top of the (still not official) Wiiorder list at my local EB, I'm not too worried. They've been very good at not screwing over their hardcore regulars, of which I am one.

It also seems that Nintendo has a somewhat better handle on their supply vs. demand issues with the Wii. Granted, when it gets a bit closer and they announce their total worldwide figures, I might eat my words, but from the sounds of things it won't be in the shortage situation that the 360 and PS3 seem to be in.

All that said, if I don't happen to get my Wii at launch I'll somehow survive. I'll grumble for a bit, but I'll somehow struggle through until the next batch arrives, at which point I had better get one or so help me...

[Jack B]

Too bad there isn't a way to keep the scalpers (people who buy and sell on eBay) from taking advantage, but I guess it's just the way it is.

Just like with popular concert tickets many true fans get gouged... :o

[Kefkataran]

Too bad there isn't a way to keep the scalpers (people who buy and sell on eBay) from taking advantage, but I guess it's just the way it is.

Hey, there's nothing illegal about it, so it's actually completely different from tickets. If you have a problem with it, move to Russia! :p

[Jack B]

Hey, there's nothing illegal about it, so it's actually completely different from tickets. If you have a problem with it, move to Russia! :p

I was siding with the passionate Sony fan, who might have spent a night outside a store hoping to get a PS3 at launch.

They might have been turned away the next morning, because a scalper got one out the back door or sat in line with no intention of using it for what it was intended.

Sony loses. Nintendo loses. The true fan who waits in lines this Xmas and doesn't get a console loses.

If you'd like to stick up for the scalpers. Fine. Your choice.

I don't think I deserved to be told to move to Russia for sticking up for true fans of a console...

I heard a lot of stories of 360 fans, whether they be young kids or just people on a budget, who just couldn't afford the $1,000 +/- they needed to pay on eBay to get one.

That really sucks.... I would rather it didn't happen to Sony or Wii fans this Xmas as well.

[Kefkataran]

I was siding with the passionate Sony fan, who might have spent a night outside a store hoping to get a PS3 at launch.

Pfff. If capitalism has taught me one thing, it's that empathy is for suckers... :p No, really, though, I'd probably feel horrible about even thinking about doing this Ebay thing if I wasn't so fucking poor.

If you'd like to stick up for the scalpers. Fine. Your choice.

It's more about sticking up for myself since I'm possibly going to do it.

I don't think I deserved to be told to move to Russia for sticking up for true fans of a console...

It was a joke. You're taking things way too seriously. Yeesh.


I heard a lot of stories of 360 fans, whether they be young kids or just people on a budget, who just couldn't afford the $1,000 +/- they needed to pay on eBay to get one.

Yep, I was one of them. I mean I didn't plan to buy a 360 at launch, but I ended up waiting much longer than I originally was going to because of the scarcity.


That really sucks.... I would rather it didn't happen to Sony or Wii fans this Xmas as well.

Okay, but it's going to anyways. And it's just as much Sony and Nintendo's fault for making the systems so scarce as it is the people who take advantage of that. Unless the systems are readily available to all consumers who want them, this is going to happen. And if it didn't somehow, wouldn't fans STILL be fucked just because they wouldn't be there in stores at all?

[Jack B]

It was a joke. You're taking things way too seriously. Yeesh.

Glad you clarified that. Fair enough, no harm no foul. :)

Yeah, if you need the money, then you're in roughly the same boat as the ones who can't afford it on eBay, so it's a bit better I suppose...

It's really the age of philosophical question of "why shouldn't I do it, because if I don't someone else will...".

First off, I'm no angel, but here's something to think about.

I used to always tell my kids if you see a wallet on the ground you don't take the money, because it's just not yours. Sometimes I see a tennis racket or something laying on the ground and I think well I could take it to the lost and found, but in most cases I have no clue where that is, so I just leave it where is sits.

Later if I come back and it's still there it makes me realize, that I'm not the only one that won't take the racket or take the money out of a lost wallet.

If you've ever gone back to wherevere you've lost something and found it, you can usually imagine, that you weren't the first to see it, but the others left it hoping you would return. Those are the ones you find yourself, going 'thank God, I can't believe it's still here!".

It does happen sometimes.

Yeah, if you don't scalp one of the PS3's or the Wii, there may be someone else there who will, but you know, even one less scalper probably means one more PS3 or Wii will go to someone without the eBay gouging.

I know this sounds like some goofy feel good Xmas story, but people aren't all completely jaded by capitalism.... It's all percentages. The more people that decide, maybe I shouldn't do it..., the fewer scalpers we'll have.

Changing the world, one scalper at a time... :D

I'm cringing as I think of all the replies to this feel good. Gee Dad, that was great... Thanks. Can we go bake cookies now...

[Thenetcase]

I doubt this console will come out this year.

However, regardless, I'm going to go just to heckle the people in line. Maybe I'll do the whole "buy display box and throw it out the window 'by accident' as I drive by yelling taunts" .... oh wait, that's already been done-- and it wasn't even cool. Guess I need to stick to walking up and squeezing a rubber duck in people's faces and yelling obscenities about Sony. Or I could get my Triumph the insult dog puppet and go mock people with him too! Yeah, that's what I'll do!

Oh and the Megaphone idea, for whoever said that, is really good. Just make you get up close and personal and have a really important looking camera and claim they are live on TV, so they don't mutilate you with bodily harm.

Damn sony fans... can't trust them these days.

-TNC-

yes, I really am.......

[mightbe]

If you need one (WTF, who needs a conosle?) at launch, you pay a premium or work your butt off to get one.

The problems are all over the place: with the stores, the producers of the consoles, rabid consumers, and opportunists looking to make a buck off of the situation.

"True fans" may be willing to pay the premium, it's one of those crazy choices that you have to make in life. If they're horribly distraught by the situation, maybe they should derrive their self worth from something other than owning a game console.

My advice to the "ohshittheskyisfalling" crowd: The fervor will die down. You will find the product you're looking for. Don't get so hung up on instant gratification. I garuntee there's some wonderful PC/Xbox/DS/GC/DC/PS2 games that you can spend the extra money on in the interim. If you can't find them, I'll find you some quality titles to tide you over. Free of charge if you're nice.

If you'd like to stick up for scalpers. Fine. Your choice.
Kef also supports terrorism, I hear. He also can't climax unless he strangles a puppy. It's true I swear.

I don't feel so bad that the average joe with some free time and a plan can make some cash on the situation. Let us not demonize them though.

[Kefkataran]

If you've ever gone back to wherevere you've lost something and found it, you can usually imagine, that you weren't the first to see it, but the others left it hoping you would return. Those are the ones you find yourself, going 'thank God, I can't believe it's still here!".

It does happen sometimes.

Err, if I see stuff on the ground, I usually don't take it or take it only to look for the owner. But this isn't stealing. Again, this is completely legal, and while there's maybe a moral side to it, I don't think it's close to as pronounced as you're making it.


I know this sounds like some goofy feel good Xmas story, but people aren't all completely jaded by capitalism.... It's all percentages. The more people that decide, maybe I shouldn't do it..., the fewer scalpers we'll have.

Changing the world, one scalper at a time...

I'm far from jaded by capitalism. :p Like I said, I'm an idealist. And I'd feel bad about this if I wasn't a broke-ass college student with a million other purchases to worry about. As it is, though, I just don't.

I doubt this console will come out this year.

Whaaaat? You think there'll be ANOTHER delay? No way. Either way, your post really paints you as quite the fanboy tool. Congrats for that. :\

Kef also supports terrorism, I hear. He also can't climax unless he strangles a puppy. It's true I swear.

Errrrgghg sweet puppy blood... droooool

[mightbe]

Errrrgghg sweet puppy blood... droooool
Boioioioooing!

[bean19]

You guys think there are 2 million potential customers worldwide at launch for the PS3 and 4 million by Christmas. . . even with the $600 price tag?

That's how many they've said they'll ship. . . So are they actually shipping less of them or are they just shipping less of them to the United States than Microsoft did?

[Kefkataran]

You guys think there are 2 million potential customers worldwide at launch for the PS3 and 4 million by Christmas. . . even with the $600 price tag?


Yes. In fact, I'm positive.

[Ajguy]

Jack B, you're my hero ;)

[Jack B]

Jack B, you're my hero ;)

Ajguy,

You know, I hadn't seen your post, but went back and saw it.

Yep, my point exactly. It may not be illegal, and no it's not a sin on the scale of murder, but scalping is not cool. I feel for you man. That sucks. And you weren't the only one.

Here's another good story....

I just saw a show about the camera's they are putting in cars to lure car thieves. The car's sit with keys in them in parking lots or in front of 7 Eleven's etc.

When the car thieves jump in it sends a GPS signal back to the station. They cops track it down and then flip a switch, so the engine dies and the doors lock as they swoop in to bust 'em.

One police dept in Detroit actually has the radio play the theme song from Cops when they flip the switch. It's a crack up! :D

Anyway, they were interviewing a guy who got busted by this trap in prison and at one point he say's, "hey, man it's just not fair you know... They know people are going to steal the car if you leave the keys in side. It's just not fair..".

I sat there and said to myself. Dude, it's not your car... Repeat to yourself over and over again. It's not my car, it's not my car... you have 5 years to practice before you get out of the can... :D

That's the "if I don't do it someone else will mentality...". Some people, say the opposite, "if I don't do it, maybe others won't do it too...".

Yeah, it's a Polyanna attitude, but you know what. I'm not interested in being one more scalper on eBay.

Good luck to you and any others who decide to wait in line to get your new PS3 or Wii. It would truly suck to be standing behind the guy you described who already had a PS3 and was just going to sell the next one on eBay...

I heard some crazy stories about people waiting all night on the East coast in the freezing cold or rain... Hardcore, but more power to them. It's great to actually have something in life you want that badly.... :)

OK, did my good deed for the day... now back to cheating on my taxes...

[Mr.Condescension]

You guys think there are 2 million potential customers worldwide at launch for the PS3 and 4 million by Christmas. . . even with the $600 price tag?


Does anyone really doubt this? They'd have sold as many 360s as that for $600 each if they had the supply last christmas.

[Ajguy]

Freezing cold and rain. That sounds familiar :p

But yes, you are exactly correct. Also, I've learned my lesson. No more waiting in line. I love my 360 and all and looking back at the whole experience, I'm glad I did it (got some good stories, a 360, and it built character), but I'm not yet ready to endure that again. For the Wii, maybe. But definitely not for a PS3 given what they've shown so far. Hopefully I'll be able to preorder a Wii.

[mightbe]

Does anyone really doubt this? They'd have sold as many 360s as that for $600 each if they had the supply last christmas.
Well, they wouldn't have sold one to me.

[vivafletcher]

On the bright side, the one I had mentally reserved for myself can now go to someone else. I'm not interested in this console at launch.

[Ventura_DK]

Who cares, with the dismal launch line-up and high price, there's no need to buy a PS3 during the first 6 months of the console's life. Maybe even longer.

[Spigot]

Too bad there isn't a way to keep the scalpers (people who buy and sell on eBay) from taking advantage, but I guess it's just the way it is.

Just like with popular concert tickets many true fans get gouged... :o
Only in this case, they're already getting gouged by Sony! Zing!

[bean19]

Yes. In fact, I'm positive.

I'm interested in this. My favorite console by leaps and bounds this generation was my PS2 (due to game selection), but the X360 has the lead in game selection this time around. Plus there is the hugely expensive $600 price tag.

While there are definitely people who will not balk at the $600 price tag, I wonder how many of them there are in the world.

I don't have any sales or marketing data for consoles, but if a hardcore gamer like myself, who has very positive brand recognition with the Playstation, will not buy the console due to cost, then how many other people will balk at the price?

[AniAko]

Ajguy,
Yep, my point exactly. It may not be illegal, and no it's not a sin on the scale of murder, but scalping is not cool. I feel for you man. That sucks. And you weren't the only one.

Here's another good story....

I just saw a show about the camera's they are putting in cars to lure car thieves. The car's sit with keys in them in parking lots or in front of 7 Eleven's etc.

When the car thieves jump in it sends a GPS signal back to the station. They cops track it down and then flip a switch, so the engine dies and the doors lock as they swoop in to bust 'em.

Anyway, they were interviewing a guy who got busted by this trap in prison and at one point he say's, "hey, man it's just not fair you know... They know people are going to steal the car if you leave the keys in side. It's just not fair..".

I sat there and said to myself. Dude, it's not your car... Repeat to yourself over and over again. It's not my car, it's not my car... you have 5 years to practice before you get out of the can... :D

That's the "if I don't do it someone else will mentality...". Some people, say the opposite, "if I don't do it, maybe others won't do it too...".

Yeah, it's a Polyanna attitude, but you know what. I'm not interested in being one more scalper on eBay.

Good luck to you and any others who decide to wait in line to get your new PS3 or Wii.



It would truly suck to be standing behind the guy you described who already had a PS3 and was just going to sell the next one on eBay...

I heard some crazy stories about people waiting all night on the East coast in the freezing cold or rain... Hardcore, but more power to them. It's great to actually have something in life you want that badly.... :)

OK, did my good deed for the day... now back to cheating on my taxes...

Being righteous in the world of business lays a path to demise

If I stood in line and didn't get a PS3, so be it. I obviously wasn't worthy enough. If I'm willing to pay $1000+ for one on Ebay, then that's what the console is worth to me. There's nothing morally wrong with taking advantage of a business oppurtunity. That kid that doesn't get one, even though he waited in line behind me, yeah I might feel bad. If it was a young kid, I might even give mine up if it was the last PS3. But if I had no moral conflicts, I'd take it and sell it. I'm not ripping anyone off, and I'm NOT being unfair to the kid. You make it sound like I'm MAKING him pay my price. He doesn't HAVE to pay it. He can pay Sony's price, and if their out of stock, he can take that up with Sony. It's not like I'm overcharging famished people for a bundle of food.

Consumer electronics is not a topic many philantropists cover... because it has nothing to do with human advancement. I remember paying $50 for my Thermaltake Tsunami Dream PC case. WHY??? Because I WANTED it the first day it was out. And till this day I don't feel cheated. I paid for priority, and I'm satisfied with it.


I do agree with you on one point...
The people who get products that have "fallen off the back of trucks" and are selling them on Ebay are teetering on that fine line of morality. Also those who have "know" someone. If you get one because you know someone and plan to use it for your own personal use, so be it. Kudos, you've got an advantage and I'd expect you to use it. If you try to exploit that advantage by turning around and selling the product, it becomes questionable. At least the people who stood in line "earned" their product fairly, and in re-selling it, they're exercising a basic consumer right. It's when you use your "advantage" I believe it becomes morally questionable

[Shifter]

Who cares, with the dismal launch line-up and high price, there's no need to buy a PS3 during the first 6 months of the console's life. Maybe even longer.

Yes that was my original point. I don't think the price will hurt sales at all, but the lackluster launch line will. Just like I did for the 360, i'll wait a few months then buy it when it makes sense. And given my experience with the 360, I'm probably better off waiting for a year to buy the PS3 so that they'll have fixed production problems and have a good lineup of games.

[Eran Hawke]

Glad you clarified that. Fair enough, no harm no foul. :)

Yeah, if you need the money, then you're in roughly the same boat as the ones who can't afford it on eBay, so it's a bit better I suppose...

It's really the age of philosophical question of "why shouldn't I do it, because if I don't someone else will...".

First off, I'm no angel, but here's something to think about.

I used to always tell my kids if you see a wallet on the ground you don't take the money, because it's just not yours. Sometimes I see a tennis racket or something laying on the ground and I think well I could take it to the lost and found, but in most cases I have no clue where that is, so I just leave it where is sits.

Later if I come back and it's still there it makes me realize, that I'm not the only one that won't take the racket or take the money out of a lost wallet.

If you've ever gone back to wherevere you've lost something and found it, you can usually imagine, that you weren't the first to see it, but the others left it hoping you would return. Those are the ones you find yourself, going 'thank God, I can't believe it's still here!".

It does happen sometimes.

Yeah, if you don't scalp one of the PS3's or the Wii, there may be someone else there who will, but you know, even one less scalper probably means one more PS3 or Wii will go to someone without the eBay gouging.

I know this sounds like some goofy feel good Xmas story, but people aren't all completely jaded by capitalism.... It's all percentages. The more people that decide, maybe I shouldn't do it..., the fewer scalpers we'll have.

Changing the world, one scalper at a time... :D
I LOVE this story! :)

Lead by example. I was offered a spot at the top of the preorder list at my local game store. I declined. I don't want to spend $600+ on a consile for myself. It is wasteful. They suggest I sell it on Ebay. I sad, 'nah'. That is just wrong.

[Kefkataran]

I don't have any sales or marketing data for consoles, but if a hardcore gamer like myself, who has very positive brand recognition with the Playstation, will not buy the console due to cost, then how many other people will balk at the price?

Trust me, there's enough. First, there's the hardcore gamers who are rich and must have every console. But mosre importantly, there's the legions of uninformed less hardcore gamers (and their parents) with deep pockets who will be more brand loyal than anything else. The major difference with you is that cost obviously matters, but I do believe there are more than enough people for which it will not.

[AniAko]

Quick note:

Since buying and reselling is becoming so popular, I'm refraining from participating in the PS3 sell-off. A good entrepreneur knows when trends become popular, they become less profitable. Just know most of your precious cell phones are manufactured by people who make less a week than you do an hour. That's more serious issue than people who want to sell products for prices people are willing to pay ;)

[AniAko]

Trust me, there's enough. First, there's the hardcore gamers who are rich and must have every console. But mosre importantly, there's the legions of uninformed less hardcore gamers (and their parents) with deep pockets who will be more brand loyal than anything else. The major difference with you is that cost obviously matters, but I do believe there are more than enough people for which it will not.

It's sad though. I'm not a playstation fan, although I did buy a PS1 when it got cheap enough to own like 3 games for it. This time around I was EXCITED to buy a PS3. But I just CAN'T afford it. And with all the technical problems they're having, I'm thinking I'm better off to wait anyways. I have the feeling Sony expected the PS3 to do leaps and bounds better than the PS2. I don't think that's going to happen anymore

[Kefkataran]

I have the feeling Sony expected the PS3 to do leaps and bounds better than the PS2. I don't think that's going to happen anymore

I agree with that. And I'm in the same boat. I'd love to buy a PS3 just to have one, but there's NO way I could afford it.

[Evil_SPanKY]

I only hope that every leacher who is gonna sell one on Ebay at +$1000 get burned by their decision to try and profit form the shortage. It may not be illlegal, but its ethically wrong, plain and simple.

[AniAko]

I only hope that every leacher who is gonna sell one on Ebay at +$1000 get burned by their decision to try and profit form the shortage. It may not be illlegal, but its ethically wrong, plain and simple.

You guys are missing a huge point here. When these LEACHERS put the PS3 on Ebay, most of them will put the bidding at the price of the system, OR like me, start the bidding at $0.01. It's the CONSUMER that drives the price up. For some it's worth the money. You can't hold sellers responsible for buyers WANTING to pay more money for the systems. If they stopped bidding, the prices wouldn't go up. No different than... OMG! No different than an auction! Too easy to forget that's what Ebay is.

[Kefkataran]

It may not be illlegal, but its ethically wrong, plain and simple.

As much as I have said over and over that I would normally feel bad about doing this, I still don't see a good argument for how it's ethically wrong. No one HAS to buy it for any price, and as Inevitable said, it's the people who want it driving the price up coupled with the company's fault in not producing enough units to satisfy the demand. How is this ethically wrong?

[Zanzibar]

I hadn't heard any bad responses to the RSX. Link please? :confused:
Honestly, the grousing I heard is word-of-mouth from a few devs about overall graphics performance, and you can either believe that, or not.

I should clarify that it may not be the RSX itself, but instead the lack of solid middleware to help get the most out of the hardware. Just like with the X360, you can expect more horsepower the more the devs get used to the 'gotchas' that exist in every system, and develop workarounds or improve middleware to avoid them.

[vherub]

It's not ethically wrong, but as a gamer, and a member of the gaming community, it is short-sighted, selfish and basically a kick in the balls. Would you act in such a fashion to your friends?
There is an articifial demand because the supply at launch is always going to be smaller, especially as gaqming gets more an more popular. Sony can either delay the launch until they have a big enough supply, or they themselves launch the price at $1200 and then bring it down until supply catches demand.
If Sony did either move, people would freak out, but ebaying systems is a similar end.

[Kefkataran]

It's not ethically wrong, but as a gamer, and a member of the gaming community, it is short-sighted, selfish and basically a kick in the balls. Would you act in such a fashion to your friends?

See, I agree a little more iwth this. And again, that's why I wouldn't do it if I wasn't a poor college student (and still might not because of that).

[Jack B]

As much as I have said over and over that I would normally feel bad about doing this, I still don't see a good argument for how it's ethically wrong. No one HAS to buy it for any price, and as Inevitable said, it's the people who want it driving the price up coupled with the company's fault in not producing enough units to satisfy the demand. How is this ethically wrong?

Kefkataran,

You haven't seen a good argument for why this is ethically wrong, so here's an ethically wrong survey.

The "ethically wrong" argument is filled with shades of gray. I loved Philosophy in college...

Here's one for you. Rate the following as yes ethically wrong or no, not ethically wrong and rate 1-10.

1. Charging $100 for a gallon of water to family during a disaster.
2. Charging $8.50 for a gallon of gas on a remote stretch of highway.
3. Charging $2.50 for Horse Armor.
4. Charging $1200 for a PS3, that you bought for $600 with the sole intention of marking up $600 on eBay.
5. Finding a wallet and taking all the cash and dropping in a mailbox.
6. Half Life charging for episodic content that last's only 6 hours...

My votes: Yes means "ethically wrong", Numbers equal "how wrong"...

1. Gallon of Water - Yes, 10
2. Gallon of Gas - Yes, 8
3. Horse Armor - No
4. PS3 eBay - Yes, 4
5. Wallet - Yes, 8
6. Half Life - No

[AniAko]

...
4. Charging $1200 for a PS3, that you bought for $600 with the sole intention of marking up $600 on eBay.
...



This question is flawed, because the seller isn't the one marking the item up on Ebay. It's no different than antiques, where people save stuff that costed pennies in the old days, but NOW are valued at thousands of dollars.

You know who DRIVES the value of that antique? The demand by those who wish to purchase and posses it. Ebay's an auction site, and the buyers who pay $1200 believe it's WORTH that much to them. It's not the sellers fault.

It's not like a rock concert, where maybe once in a lifetime a band is playing in your home town and tickets are sold out to scalpers. The PS3 will be releasing MORE in after the initial release, and unlike the experience of the concert, they're guarunteed to offer the same experience.

[Sl1pstream]

It may not be illegal, and no it's not a sin on the scale of murder, but scalping is not cool.

Having $1000+ to spend on whatever you want is pretty cool though.

Besides, PS3 is a luxury item, it's not like you need one to survive.

[Dag-Sabot]

I loved Philosophy in college...
Uh ok... Next question: You're walking along in the desert, and you see a tortoise. Its struggling, its upside down what do you do?

[AniAko]

Uh ok... Next question: You're walking along in the desert, and you see a tortoise. Its struggling, its upside down what do you do?

Blame someone for its misfortune instead of Mother Nature for releasing the turtle that way :rolleyes:

[Kefkataran]

Here's one for you. Rate the following as yes ethically wrong or no, not ethically wrong and rate 1-10.

1. Charging $100 for a gallon of water to family during a disaster.
2. Charging $8.50 for a gallon of gas on a remote stretch of highway.
3. Charging $2.50 for Horse Armor.
4. Charging $1200 for a PS3, that you bought for $600 with the sole intention of marking up $600 on eBay.
5. Finding a wallet and taking all the cash and dropping in a mailbox.
6. Half Life charging for episodic content that last's only 6 hours...

My votes: Yes means "ethically wrong", Numbers equal "how wrong"...

1. Yes, 10.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No. (And I wouldn't charge $1200 -- I'd set it for the price I bought it for and whoever is the final bidder will have chosen to pay whatever price it's too, thus basically negating this question as it relates to me anyways).
5. Yes, 6.
6. No.

Obviously we just have different ideas of what's ethically wrong as related to something that's not a necessity.

[netcraazzy]

Its taking all my willpower right now not to run out and look into preordering a PS3 with the sole intent of selling it. I agree with people who say its kind of mean to scalp consoles but damn is it hard to resist all that profit I'd probably make. I almost sold my 360 on ebay when I got it on launch day but I kept it because I had been wanting one for so long, with the PS3 that's not really a problem :p

[AniAko]

Why is it mean? If you would have wanted it bad enough, you would have been here at 3am, like I was waiting for it. Basically whining about "console scalpers" (stupid name because that's not what it is) is driven by the fact that people think Sony is ALREADY making it hard enough, and more people are going to make it harder. WRONG. Whether or not these re-sellers are present at your local EB they're NOT the determining factor of you getting a PS3, SONY is. Because if no one is willing to pay the "re-sellers" price, the re-sellers will stop trying to sell it. BUT people DO pay that price. Surprisingly it's a small margin, but so are the people who re-sell their consoles online, in fact economics dictates that this is the fact. The Supply of online re-sales is driven by the demand.

[Jack B]

Why is it mean? If you would have wanted it bad enough, you would have been here at 3am, like I was waiting for it. Basically whining about "console scalpers" (stupid name because that's not what it is) is driven by the fact that people think Sony is ALREADY making it hard enough, and more people are going to make it harder. WRONG. Whether or not these re-sellers are present at your local EB they're NOT the determining factor of you getting a PS3, SONY is. Because if no one is willing to pay the "re-sellers" price, the re-sellers will stop trying to sell it. BUT people DO pay that price. Surprisingly it's a small margin, but so are the people who re-sell their consoles online, in fact economics dictates that this is the fact. The Supply of online re-sales is driven by the demand.

First off, do I think my opinion that it's wrong will stop anyone from selling a PS3 to the highest bidder on eBay? Well, it doesn't look like it. Maybe, you either think it's wrong or you don't. There's a decent chance nothing I say will change your mind. Oh well.

And it's not a great "sin" either, but I don't think it's right either and is an ugly part of capitalism... Middlemen rarely add value to our economy.

I find it interesting that everyone has their own "vision" of who is winning and losing. My vision is of the kids or young people who live for games, but won't get one, because of the eBay'ers. They could be 13, 18, 25 or 30 with limited income, but a love for games.

Inevitable Winter is thinking only of the seller and buyer. I'm thinking of the seller, buyer and loser (ie console fan who can't afford the $1,200).

Other people have a vision of someone who buys it as stupid or rich or they're getting a fair price, but they forget about the ones who can't afford it and don't purchase on eBay.

It reminds me of Deadwood, where David Milch was talking about heathens or dirt worshipers... When people are involved with genocide, they try to take the humanity out of the enemy, so they aren't really killing humans...

Thus the eBay buyers are fools or stupid or rich or get what they deserve.

I'm more focused on the ones who stand out in the rain... or show up every morning for 2 or 3 weeks, because although they could pay $1,200 on eBay they just don't have the money, so the call 10 stores a day and show up every morning just hoping to find one at retail. That sucks.

I don't think that's right. Robin Hood might sell the PS3 on eBay and then give the money back to young kids who couldn't afford a PS3. I doubt will see much of that.

I had a co-worker during the 360 launch and his 13 year old wanted only one thing for Xmas. A 360. His kid had just missed out on making the basketball team and was little down. His dad wanted to buy it on eBay, because they'd been struggling to find one, but his wife refused.

They had waited in line at the local Target and ended up being 4 people short of getting one on launch morning and were turned away. They were 63 and they had 59 or something like that...

I said, "I wouldn't hesitate to pay the extra on eBay to reward my kid, if he deserved it...". The dad tried, but mom wouldn't give in, so she kept calling and showing up at Targets ect, 3 or 4 times a week. I was feeling bad for the kid, because his dad would keep me updated on their search. Luckily on Thursday morning before Xmas mom finally got one at Target.

Now I don't know if she'd have backed down and paid the eBay price, but that kid deserved it.

I don't think of the people paying $1,200 on eBay for a PS3 as being a typical console fan... I'm sure a lot of console fans are scraping together all their nickles for a Next Gen console.

Yeah, I feel sorry for them. Call me a sap if you want, but I was in their shoes once too. I had to save for a month to be able to afford a single game and I'd get a rush just opening the package.

I enjoy gaming still to this day. I don't get the rush opening the package anymore, but I do remember those days.

Ticket scalpers who pay kids to stand in line for tickets or consoles, so they can then resell them add zero value. They are the consumate middlemen.

And isn't if funny how everyone wants to cut out the middleman except for the middleman... :D They just won't be getting a Xmas card from me. :p

I'd leave the money in the wallet and I'd leave eBay selling of PS3's alone.

Yeah, I could use the $100 I find in the wallet and yeah I could use $600, but I wouldn't feel right about it.

That's my take. Phew, I feel like I'm back in Philosophy again... :)

[mightbe]

You should catch this week's roundtable on the EANR Podcast feed. We touch on the scalping issue a bit.

[Deathbane27]

It's clear no one is going to convince anyone else in this console scalper debate. Time to kill it.

Hitler.

Did that work? No? Fake Enzyte commercial time.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1169/longwinded.jpg


Jack, why don't you start a new thread so you can run a proper poll? I think you'll find the results enlightening.

Should you decide not to, however...
1. Yes, and a fucking 11.
2. Assuming you're the only station within 10 miles and you could still sell it at $3 a gallon for profit? Yes, 4.
3. No. It's a fucking luxury item, charge what the market will bear.
4. No. It's a fucking luxury item, charge what the market will bear. Sony's an idiot for not charging $1200 in the first place with the shortages, imho.
5. Yes. Wrongness varies based on whether there's any ID in it and, if not, whether there's enough money to put up "Found" posters and bother with the rifraf. Seriously, if it's got no ID I'd rather just leave it where I found it and hope it gets found by the owner or someone who hasn't had a meal in a few days.
6. No. It's a fucking luxury item, charge what the market will bear.

[Jack B]

It's clear no one is going to convince anyone else in this console Ebayer debate. Time to kill it.

Hitler.

Did that work? No? Fake Enzyte commercial time.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1169/longwinded.jpg


And, for the record, My votes are the same as K's in Jack B's survey. Well, one change. On #5, it depends if there's ID in it and thus hope of it getting back to its owner. No ID = "Yes, 2", if there's ID it's "Yes, 8".

Jack... Seriously, start a new thread so you can run a poll. I think you'll find it enlightening.

A vote for $8.50 for a gallon of gas is a vote for greed, IMO. If you admire or don't mind greed, then good for you.

And there are 6,000 people on Evil Avatar. I don't think either one of us speak for all 6,000. You run a poll if you'd like.

[Deathbane27]

A vote for $8.50 for a gallon of gas is a vote for greed, IMO.

Yes, you made that clear in your previous posts, including the one in which you asked the question. Thank you, however, for repeating yourself. I hadn't noticed any of your previous posts in this thread, and would never have guessed.

If you admire or don't mind greed, then good for you.

You have equated greed with "wrongness". I equate it with cursing. It's not "wrong", but it still annoys the hell out of most people, especially in excess. I don't like it, but I accept it.

Greed is relative. Greed is reality. Being angry that it exists will turn you into rcjj or Borys or Zeal. Start a proper poll and see for yourself.

Note that I changed my post when I realized that the chance you'd do so was insignificant. Your question did not include sufficient qualifiers. I'm not Jesus.

And there are 6,000 people on Evil Avatar. I don't think either one of us speak for all 6,000.

Exactly.

You run a poll if you'd like.

Your issue, your poll. I didn't even care enough to put in my own responses initially, but the old insomnia's kicking in. :)

[Spigot]

I'm more focused on the ones who stand out in the rain... or show up every morning for 2 or 3 weeks, because although they could pay $1,200 on eBay they just don't have the money, so the call 10 stores a day and show up every morning just hoping to find one at retail. That sucks.
That's also life. Given that people now know that there are going to be shortages, they'd better get their pennies together to buy one either at launch if they can get high enough on the list or on Ebay if they must have it around that time.

As it is a luxury item, as has been said by many, it's something that people, even little Timmy who REALLY want's a PS3 for Christmas, can and will live without. Hell, my parents never even dreamed of getting us something that cost $600 (and this is before games, tax, peripherals, etc.) for Christmas.

If you're that worried that you're going to lose your child's love because you didn't buy him/her that insanely overpriced piece of electronics, you have bigger issues that game scalpers.

Granted, what is really in a deficit here is patience. Sure, you might not be able to get a PS3 the second it hits the bricks but just wait 6 months and not only will they likely be in much greater supply, they'll probably also have a decent amount of games to play on them. The 360 had the same issues. Everyone wanted one at launch and some people payed through the nose. Everyone beat the 2-3 launch games that appealed to them and then sat around playing Live Arcade games in HD while waiting for the next batch of games to come 6 months later.

Getting a console at launch is not a right. People need to get used to disappointment and realize that not every want can be instantly gratified.

*grumble grumble*

Ok. Turning off the oldcootothalmus in my brain. I'm still in work mode.

[Jack B]

Greed is relative. Greed is reality. Being angry that it exists will turn you into rcjj or Borys or Zeal. Start a proper poll and see for yourself.

I never said greed wasn't reality. I accept it. It doesn't mean I want to add more greed to the world.

I wish scalpers and middlemen didn't exist. It's realty, that they do. I still don't have to like it.

You've now insulted me with the small penis joke and rcjj, Borys and Zeal without cause. I was sticking up for the little guy. You're sticking up for greed. Good for you.

People like you exist. It's reality. I accept it. :)

[Deathbane27]

This warrants a second reply, lest it be lost in the edit of the last post on the page.

If you admire or don't mind greed, then good for you.

The issue is that you have equated mild greed with wrongness, and refuse to allow yourself to consider otherwise.

I equate it with cussing. It's not wrong, but it still annoys the hell out of most people, especially in excess. I don't like it, but I accept it.

Does that particular gray area not exist in your mind? If you admire or don't mind being closed-minded, then good for you.

Edit: And the penis joke was directed at the thread in general.

[Deathbane27]

It doesn't mean I want to add more greed to the world.

No one said you did. Where did that come from?

You're sticking up for greed.

No, I'm sticking up for charging fair market value for luxury items. Charging more is greedy. Charging less creates scalpers.

[TrackZero]

Granted, what is really in a deficit here is patience. Sure, you might not be able to get a PS3 the second it hits the bricks but just wait 6 months and not only will they likely be in much greater supply, they'll probably also have a decent amount of games to play on them. The 360 had the same issues. Everyone wanted one at launch and some people payed through the nose. Everyone beat the 2-3 launch games that appealed to them and then sat around playing Live Arcade games in HD while waiting for the next batch of games to come 6 months later.

Not to mention that the first batch have a large chance of having some issues, as with any launches. Hell, for all we know the PS3 is going to make the 360 look like a dream launch. Even if you pre-order and know you have one coming, it's always a gamble as to what you're going to get.

[Jack B]

This warrants a second reply, lest it be lost in the edit of the last post on the page.



The issue is that you have equated mild greed with wrongness, and refuse to allow yourself to consider otherwise.

I equate it with cussing. It's not wrong, but it still annoys the hell out of most people, especially in excess. I don't like it, but I accept it.

Does that particular gray area not exist in your mind? If you admire or don't mind being closed-minded, then good for you.

Edit: And the penis joke was directed at the thread in general.

Thanks for the clarification on the penis joke.

Yes, I equate scalping with greed and adding no value to our economy. I don't think that's right. Me thinking that way, but more people thinking like me means less of it.

[Mr.Condescension]

No, I'm sticking up for charging fair market value for luxury items. Charging more is greedy. Charging less creates scalpers.

I'm going to have to agree with this. The true value of anything in an economy is the amount which people are willing to pay for it at the time you sell it. You can have a baseball card appraise at $50,000 but if you can't find someone willing to spend that amount of money on it then is it really worth that much? People were willing to buy a certain amount of 360s for over $1000. That means that was their true value.

If people succeed in selling their launch PS3s for $1000 or more, then I think that's less an indication of their greed and more an indication of Sony selling their product for too little money (at least initially).

[Jack B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack B
It doesn't mean I want to add more greed to the world.



No one said you did. Where did that come from?

I am making a parallel to scalping with adding greed to the world. I would rather not scalp or add more greed to the world.

Quote:
You're sticking up for greed.


No, I'm sticking up for charging fair market value for luxury items. Charging more is greedy. Charging less creates scalpers.

I equate scalpers with greed. You are sticking up for scalpers (ie greed IMO).

There is a difference between "what the market will bear" and "fair market price".

I'll pay any amount of money for a glass of water in the desert. That's "what the market will bear". Charging me whatever you can get away with is not ethical IMO, but it is "what the market will bear.

I'd give the man a glass of water for free and be glad to do it. Greed would have him me force him to sign over his home and life savings, which is not "fair market value". It's flat out greed and "what the market will bear".

Big difference.

This is all semantics at this point.

[Deathbane27]

And what the hell does that have to do with anything?

"Luxury items" != semantics. "Luxury items" has been used about a dozen times in this thread. You seem to have handily missed all of them.

Water is a necessity. Charging money to someone dying of thirst in the desert isn't greedy, it's fucking EVIL.

[Kefkataran]

I'm more focused on the ones who stand out in the rain... or show up every morning for 2 or 3 weeks, because although they could pay $1,200 on eBay they just don't have the money, so the call 10 stores a day and show up every morning just hoping to find one at retail. That sucks.

It sucks for people who might experience that, but I'd blame Sony long before any scalpers.



A vote for $8.50 for a gallon of gas is a vote for greed, IMO. If you admire or don't mind greed, then good for you.

There's a ton of variables, but the main reason I voted no to this being morally wrong is that I was under the assumption that, being the only station on a lone stretch of highway, it probably cost lots of money to mantain it and keep it staffed/stocked, therefore it would have higher prices to make up for that. And it's not fucking anyone over with a need like the first one.

[Jack B]

And what the hell does that have to do with anything?

"Luxury items" != semantics. "Luxury items" has been used about a dozen times in this thread. You seem to have handily missed all of them.

Water is a necessity. Charging money to someone dying of thirst in the desert isn't greedy, it's fucking EVIL.

Sure my example wasn't a "luxury item", but analogies are always extremes to make the subject easier to understand.

Ethics is highly subjective. I understand that. I hope you do as well.

My ethics consider scalping and middlemen to be greedy and wrong. You don't. It's all shades of gray. I accept your definition. I think you should accept mine too.

All criminals rationalize, why there victims "deserved" it... Aren't ethics fun.

I'm not accusing you of being a criminal. We just have different ethics as it relates to scalping PS3's on eBay.

Let's just agree, that I don't feel it's right to do and won't participate. I don't think anyone on this board would be angry that I didn't scalp PS3's and I won't stop anyone else from doing so.

You can decide to scalp PS3's or support others right to scalp them and I can guarantee at least 1 of the 6,000 people on this board would believe you were acting unethically.

I'm the one. There may be more, but don't let that stop you, it's a free country and in my opinion capitalism does have it's downsides occaisionally.

[Deathbane27]

Well, yes.

I'm just wondering why you're comparing scalping on inappropriately-priced electronics to life-or-death extortion (which, if they refused and died, might result in a manslaughter charge in most states and second-degree homocide in New York).

Is really there that little gray in your world, or are you just that desperate to justify your position?

[Jack B]

Well, yes.

I'm just wondering why you're comparing scalping on inappropriately-priced electronics to life-or-death extortion (which, if they refused and died, might result in a manslaughter charge in most states and second-degree homocide in New York).

Is really there that little gray in your world, or are you just that desperate to justify your position?

This whole thing started with my contention, that selling PS3's on eBay is wrong.

Nothing has changed. I don't equate it with murder on not giving a man a glass of water in the desert. I just think it's wrong.

That's it. Simple as that. I won't contribute. I wish others wouldn't as well, but I don't lose sleep over it.

Now back to baseball... I've lost 2 or 3 to the Braves tonight on MLB 2k6. I gotta win game 4! :D

[AniAko]

Jack B,

Ok, take away the scalpers. Let’s say they DON’T exist. The fact is there STILL won’t be enough PS3’s to go around. Now all of the sudden your blame for little Johnny not getting a PS3 will be Sony’s fault. And let’s say they made enough, but Daddy can’t afford it, then it’s Daddy’s fault for not saving correctly.

Stop blaming broken dreams on the rest of the world. I’m a firm believer in fighting for what you want, and if my son or daughter wanted a PS3, you bet your ass I’d be the first person in line. So what if you’re a parent that can’t apply that dedication? THAT’S LIFE. It’s NOT fair, and people do lose. But it’s not their fault, it doesn’t make them bad parents, it just means they have to try again.

It’s like priority shipping on packages (2nd Day, next day, etc) I know it doesn’t actually COST more for shipping it sooner, I’m just paying to “get it sooner” which is akin to what buyers on Ebay do. They are in fact paying to get the sold-out product sooner than waiting for the next shipment.

I know what it’s like to watch a child’s eyes GLOW with excitement as they open their gifts and find they got exactly what they wanted for Christmas. I’ve also seen the opposite in the same children. But instead of blaming the world, most parents make the best of it, and shortly after the child’s disappointment, the kid’s back on top, and when he gets his #1 wish gift for his birthday, he’ll be just as happy.

Please stop saying that little Johnny DESERVES a 360, or PS3. I believe anyone that WANTS one DESERVES one. Nobody’s forcing him to buy one for $1200, and in your story the father ended up with a 360 just before Christmas anyways, for the MSRP. They just waited until they came back into stock. So they had some patience and it paid off. It’s not like MS made three hundred XBox360s and went out of business. THEN getting one would be a serious hardship. If ANYTHING your story proves that if you’re willing to try hard enough you can make the most incredible dreams come true.

The fact is parents have a tough job. They have to face the realities of the world and try to shield their children from it. It’s not a win-win situation every time because the world is fucking tough. But you’re fighting the wrong battles, what you see these (ugh) “console scalpers” is a reflection of survival instinct. They see a way to make good EASY money, so they take it. What if someone needs a serious operation, but can’t afford it? So they buy a few PS3s to re-sell and break a couple of dreams to afford it? The ugly picture painted by the phrase “console scalpers” is a deterrent from their story, because it’s assumed that they’re just in it to make boat loads of money. Actions are typically excused in the light the agenda at hand (or the greater good).

These re-sells on Ebay have been around since Ebay. Why are re-sellers the target of such scrutiny only now? It’s only because Sony is stiffing all of us. If they made enough consoles no one would be complaining.

Now from personal experience, I once bought 4 DS, and sold 3 online. Each sold for $50 more than retail, basically paying for the one I kept. All of them were over seas purchases, which meant people were buying them in areas that didn’t have the DS yet. I’ll go so far to say that the $1000+ price tags on 360s on Ebay was a tad ridiculous, but then again, those people wanted it that bad. It’s not impossible to beat re-sellers at this game, just don’t buy their stuff! Once “re-selling” is not longer profitable, the trend will diminish, but never disappear.

[Kefkataran]

Stop blaming broken dreams on the rest of the world. I’m a firm believer in fighting for what you want, and if my son or daughter wanted a PS3, you bet your ass I’d be the first person in line. So what if you’re a parent that can’t apply that dedication? THAT’S LIFE. It’s NOT fair, and people do lose. But it’s not their fault, it doesn’t make them bad parents, it just means they have to try again.

*sniff* You've inspired me. I'm going to FIGHT for that PS3 to sell on Ebay now. :D Thank you, Inevitable Winter!

Really, though, well-written post. Probably the best on the subject so far.

[AniAko]

This whole thing started with my contention, that selling PS3's on eBay is wrong.

Nothing has changed. I don't equate it with murder on not giving a man a glass of water in the desert. I just think it's wrong.

That's it. Simple as that. I won't contribute. I wish others wouldn't as well, but I don't lose sleep over it.

Now back to baseball... I've lost 2 or 3 to the Braves tonight on MLB 2k6. I gotta win game 4! :D

The reason WHY re-selling online became so big was because the prices people were willing to pay were outrageous from the outset. Re-selling has always existed, just not on such a large scale as the 360. It was the $$$ that people saw when they heard there was a 200% markup on XBoxes on ebay, and they figured they'd sell the one they preordered, and buy another one, zeroing the cost out of their pocket. NOW people remember last year's popular trend and they're trying it again. I honestly hope it's an incredible flop. It's like the RIAA thing; once it became big it was a problem, but the little sects of people that were sharing music all along weren't bothered up until that point.

Trends are evil I guess...

[AniAko]

*sniff* You've inspired me. I'm going to FIGHT for that PS3 to sell on Ebay now. :D Thank you, Inevitable Winter!

Really, though, well-written post. Probably the best on the subject so far.

It's not every day I get to be an inspiration ;), I'm touched... but not in that way ;)

[Kefkataran]

I'm touched... but not in that way

Well, we can change that!

[mightbe]

"You can't be happy all the time, That's life."

[AniAko]

Well, we can change that!

I'm saving myself for marriage... :p

All the threads are bleeding together now! :eek:

[overdrivechao]

Why the fuck do you include the HD-DVD player and Wi-Fi? It's a game console, dumbass!

Hey fuck you fanboy. These are things needed to brong the functionality up to the PS3. again fuck yourself.

[overdrivechao]

I don't believe this was refering to places that take preorders, obviously. Where you work isn't the centre of the universe. So don't go flinging around "idiot" unless you want it shoved back in your face.

This was the idiotic statement I was referring to:
There are surely 5 million stupid people with $600 to piss away on a crappy Betamax.

I mean, cmon.

[absolut taco]

Hey fuck you fanboy. These are things needed to brong the functionality up to the PS3. again fuck yourself.
Damn, that was a snappy comeback :rolleyes: . As a gamer I don't care about those things and wouldn't wanna pay a premium for them. Is that so hard to understand?
If the PS3 came with a built in popcorn popper for when you're watching HD movies, would you add $25 to the cost of the 360 for "bronging" functionality up?

[Dracula-X]

<some snipping>
I know what it’s like to watch a child’s eyes GLOW with excitement as they open their gifts and find they got exactly what they wanted for Christmas. I’ve also seen the opposite in the same children. But instead of blaming the world, most parents make the best of it, and shortly after the child’s disappointment, the kid’s back on top, and when he gets his #1 wish gift for his birthday, he’ll be just as happy.

Please stop saying that little Johnny DESERVES a 360, or PS3. I believe anyone that WANTS one DESERVES one. Nobody’s forcing him to buy one for $1200, and in your story the father ended up with a 360 just before Christmas anyways, for the MSRP. They just waited until they came back into stock. So they had some patience and it paid off. It’s not like MS made three hundred XBox360s and went out of business. THEN getting one would be a serious hardship. If ANYTHING your story proves that if you’re willing to try hard enough you can make the most incredible dreams come true.

The fact is parents have a tough job. They have to face the realities of the world and try to shield their children from it. It’s not a win-win situation every time because the world is fucking tough. But you’re fighting the wrong battles, what you see these (ugh) “console scalpers” is a reflection of survival instinct. They see a way to make good EASY money, so they take it. What if someone needs a serious operation, but can’t afford it? So they buy a few PS3s to re-sell and break a couple of dreams to afford it? The ugly picture painted by the phrase “console scalpers” is a deterrent from their story, because it’s assumed that they’re just in it to make boat loads of money. Actions are typically excused in the light the agenda at hand (or the greater good).

Post of the fucking day, man. </applause>.

My suggestion of the day to EvAv, link up a little Post-Of-The-Day on the front somewhere for posts like this, mods can decide on one. Intelligent and thoughtful.

[vherub]

Everyone who has a problem with a person buying a system at launch solely to sell it online, rather than venting on a board, should register two users on ebay and bid up every system to $2000. It would not be difficult, certainly would vent some steam and cripple the ebay market.

[Evil_SPanKY]

Everyone who has a problem with a person buying a system at launch solely to sell it online, rather than venting on a board, should register two users on ebay and bid up every system to $2000. It would not be difficult, certainly would vent some steam and cripple the ebay market.

Haha, I just may have to do that, great idea. And I hope its one of you all, who plan scalping these systems.

[Sl1pstream]

Wouldn't you have to pay for the system then?

[Kefkataran]

My suggestion of the day to EvAv, link up a little Post-Of-The-Day on the front somewhere for posts like this, mods can decide on one. Intelligent and thoughtful.

Great idea, although I'd just link to my own posts all the time. :p

[AniAko]

Great idea, although I'd just link to my own posts all the time. :p


Inevitable Winter "Kefka!!!"

*Shakes head in mocking dissappointment with fists on hips leaning lightly shaking head with half-smile/half-smirk.*
*Cue "Wa-wa-waaaaaaa" music jingle*
*Kefka looks into the camera and gives a big "Leave-it-to-beaver shrug"*
*BaPenguin break dances in the background to 2 Live Crew*
*Scene fade to black*

[Kefkataran]

Evil Avatar would make a fucking stellar family sitcom. TGIF, BITCHES!

[mightbe]

Oh, I can be the lovable but vapid comic relief. Or the love interest. Or the woman dying of breast cancer. I'm versatile like that.

[Spigot]

Oh, I can be the lovable but vapid comic relief. Or the love interest. Or the woman dying of breast cancer. I'm versatile like that.
I'll be the intern scurrying about, screwing up everyone's coffee order.

[Sl1pstream]

Can I be the narrator? Maybe I can talk to the actors, they could react to me like in the old Goofy cartoons.

[overdrivechao]

Damn, that was a snappy comeback :rolleyes: . As a gamer I don't care about those things and wouldn't wanna pay a premium for them. Is that so hard to understand?
If the PS3 came with a built in popcorn popper for when you're watching HD movies, would you add $25 to the cost of the 360 for "bronging" functionality up?

Man, read the thread. You are reacting to my post out of context and you sound like a complete idiot. Your point would work just fine if we were talking about the need for peripherals, but we aren't. I was discussing price, and how those who opt for the 360 say they are saving all kindsa money and aren't. Also, I'm not sure how one would brong functionality up, but if anyone can figure it out, it's a genius like yourself.