Sony's Cell CPU: A Neural Net Processor, A Learning Computer

[bapenguin]

In addition to free online play the PS3 will allow multiple cell processors to work together. In a recent interview (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17618) covered by GamesIndustry.biz Ken Kutaragi goes on to say:He also hinted that the console's online features could allow multiple Cell processors to work together: "Users will be able to connect to Polyphony Digital's server. So I want it to be a Cell server, with the number of Cells at a thousand to several thousand. This would allow us to maintain an entire cyberworld, as long as our power supply holds up."

Does anybody have any idea what the fuck that means? Our power supply holds up? I think something got Lost in Translation (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335266/).

[Kamalot]

This is comedic gold!
Yes, I got the Terminator reference. :D

[jeffool]

Re: power supply holding up... "As long as we have electricity."

/edit: For the record, they've long touted this capability, saying that when common home appliances are using Cell processors that your space ones can be hooked to your PS3 to help it out, like say your TV's processor that wouldn't be in use.

The big question there is: How would it help the PS3? Assumedly all games already run at peak optimization. I mean, when was the last time you really had noticable slowdown in a game?

[Kamalot]

Re: power supply holding up... "As long as we have electricity."
Oh, I thought they meant Atlas had to hold up the PS3's external power supply in the heavens to keep it from crushing the entire cosmos. :eek:

[Varsity]

Is it that hard a quote to interpret? Thousands of cell chips can link together as if they were one CPU, so long as they are provided with the electrical power to keep running.

[bone_matrix]

I thought his saying "as long as our power supply holds up." was his saying that the power consumption would be a huge

1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!!

[Morratut]

Another crazy Ken quote :D

Don't try and work out what he is saying. It's all mumbo jumbo.

[bapenguin]

Is it that hard a quote to interpret? Thousands of cell chips can link together as if they were one CPU, so long as they are provided with the electrical power to keep running.

All I keep picturing is some start Trek thing.

Ken Kutaragi saying to Phil Harrison, "PHILLY! We need more POWER!"

"I'm Givin' er all she's got kenny, if I give her any more the whole things gonna blow!"

[Kamalot]

"I'm Givin' er all she's got kenny, if I give her any more the whole things gonna blow!"
If the PS3 blows, that's a selling point. Girlfriend upset you want to spend $600 on a PS3? Ditch the girlfriend cause the PS3 blows! :D

[Rirath]

It's funny, but I don't think it's at all hard to understand.

He also hinted that the console's online features could allow multiple Cell processors to work together: "Users will be able to connect to Polyphony Digital's server. So I want it to be a Cell server, with the number of Cells at a thousand to several thousand. This would allow us to maintain an entire cyberworld, as long as our power supply holds up."

He seems to be saying that Polyphony Digital's sever is going to use the cell processor, not just a regular processor. On top of that, it will use a thousand to several thousand of them, linked. This way they can have a whole server farm, so long as they can supply it enough power. (A giant mech gun that uses all the electricity of Japan can't be far behind.)

Actually, I rather like what he says earlier...

"You can't charge money for network matching and other basic services. These things are just taken for granted on the PC."

I'd be happy if MS thought that way.

[dimsumx]

The Cell processors will become sentient and manufacture it's own robots for bodies. We'll try to cut off their electricity, and eventually darken the skies. Then they'll enslave us and put us in pea pods to generate the power for them while connecting our minds to their Polyphony Digital server and keep us happy by putting us in accurate historical simulations.

With giant crabs.

[nfwolfpryde]

The Cell processors can't communicate over the internet. They were specifically designed NOT to do that. They'll only work over a LAN.

I kid you not, the reason that they did that was to avoid a "Skynet Scenario."

[Citizen Philip]

I don't understabd what they would work together on? Is it an implication of a p2p network and bandwidth? Or does every PS3 have Seti@home?

[Kamalot]

The Cell processors will become sentient and manufacture it's own robots for bodies. We'll try to cut off their electricity, and eventually darken the skies. Then they'll enslave us and put us in pea pods to generate the power for them while connecting our minds to their Polyphony Digital server and keep us happy by putting us in accurate historical simulations.

With giant crabs.
Damn, that's a terrifying future. Unless...those giant crabs have a weak point that can be attacked for Massive Dammage!

[bone_matrix]

Damn, that's a terrifying future. Unless...those giant crabs have a weak point that can be attacked for Massive Dammage!

But will we have realtime weapon switching?!?!? If not.....DOOOOM33DD!!

On a side note, I am looking forward to seeing a unified friends list with free downloads and voicemail/game invites on the PS3. I like seeing when and what people are playing. Not that I'm a stalker. I'm just saying.

:o

[Voodoo]

Does this mean when the framerate of UT2007 slows down on my PS3, I can get the help of some anonymous PS3 system to help me out? I mean to ask, what is the purpose of having such a nural net in place?

[thenefariousone]

But the programs the cell processors create can communicate over the internet.

Oh no - what has Sony done?

Now we're going to need someone in the future to send someone to the past to be the father of our future saviour who sends that person in the past! :eek:

There is no fate but what we make...
There is no fate but what we make...
There is no fate but what we make...
There is no fate but what we make...

The Cell processors can't communicate over the internet. They were specifically designed NOT to do that. They'll only work over a LAN.

I kid you not, the reason that they did that was to avoid a "Skynet Scenario."

[Lunar Blue]

Umm, does someone actually still swallow this shit? And this is from a near tech-illiterate person like me: it ain't going to happen. Thousands of processors working together from seperate locations, yeah good luck with that. Not only would it produce MASSIVE amounts of data, todays broadbands couldn't keep up with it. There is no ISP on this planet that would pay for that data. And secondly, i thought PS3 is supercomputer by itself, why would it need help?

I'm not anti-sony, i'm anti-idiocy :rolleyes:

[Citizen Philip]

Umm, does someone actually still swallow this shit? And this is from a near tech-illiterate person like me: it ain't going to happen. Thousands of processors working together from seperate locations, yeah good luck with that. Not only would it produce MASSIVE amounts of data, todays broadbands couldn't keep up with it. There is no ISP on this planet that would pay for that data. And secondly, i thought PS3 is supercomputer by itself, why would it need help?

I'm not anti-sony, i'm anti-idiocy :rolleyes:

If you consider yourself a near tech-illiterate person, why would you comment on a tech related issue and fill it with your hyperbole?

:confused:

[Samo Umer]

I think something got Lost in Translation (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335266/).[/i]

i think not. imagine how will our lives improve once we have a supercomputer in our livingroom? "Awsome..." now connecting all these supercomputers together in synergy---- wow... cant wait to "pick up" one of these...

[Lunar Blue]

If you consider yourself a near tech-illiterate person, why would you comment on a tech related issue and fill it with your hyperbole?

:confused:

Perhaps to make a point that anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass can call the bullshit.

[rein]

Umm, does someone actually still swallow this shit? And this is from a near tech-illiterate person like me: it ain't going to happen. Thousands of processors working together from seperate locations, yeah good luck with that. Not only would it produce MASSIVE amounts of data, todays broadbands couldn't keep up with it. There is no ISP on this planet that would pay for that data. And secondly, i thought PS3 is supercomputer by itself, why would it need help?

I'm not anti-sony, i'm anti-idiocy :rolleyes:


You do realize that online, distributed computing projects have been around a while now?

[Citizen Philip]

Perhaps to make a point that anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass can call the bullshit.

But you're not a hater. Got it.

[sTubbs]

I guess on the internet stupidity comes with popularity. But shit, there has been a major proliferation of stupidity on Evil Avatar recently.

As interesting as lots of this Sony stuff is sounding, I have to wonder about its ramifications on the traditional console ideal. Linux, homebrew (although I can not see Sony allowing it to be as open as some are saying; PSP anyone?), this Cell linking dealy, Blu-Ray - all of it sounds nice but it seems to me that it could seriously hamper the elegance of the console experience.

Besides, I would think that the need for optimization in the console world would negate any real advantages that could be had by linking mulitiple chips together. What good would that do when the software has been designed to run on the base console?

I guess that right now I am viewing the PS3 as a testing ground. It has a lot of new technology and ideas, but how it will all figure out remains to be seen. And at $600 I am happy letting other people be the guinea pigs.

[Beelzebud]

This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
...Not with a bang, but a whimper.
--T.S. Elliot

[jeffbax]

What I don't understand, is what good can this capability do?

We already have the ability to make server farms, this one runs cell - big fucking whoop.

Networks are far too slow for this kind of thing to help in say a gameplay situation. I highly doubt gigabit ethernet is fast enough to sync two speedy cell cpus so that I don't drop frames.

[Lunar Blue]

But you're not a hater. Got it.

I am actually. For example, i hate you, a lot.

[Wonka]

1) The idea of using processors together over the internet to do something is not new.

2) There are good reasons why other consoles do not do this in their games (even though they COULD do this too).

3) Sonys PS3 does NOTHING NEW that would make its processors work better in this fashion. (though I am sure they would like you to think that)

4) What Sonys processor DOES do is enable a chip to be made that has several cells ON IT. So they *could* make a chip that has 20 cells on it for a server someplace.

So all of this is all just crazy speculation on some crazy hype about something that polyphony may or may not do on the server side...

Will Sony make optical drives obsolete with their super cell-servers? I would not hold my breath if I were you. They are banking on Blueray to pay some big bills...

[Vandenh]

>You do realize that online, distributed computing projects have been around a while now?

Yes and they have nothing to do with the CPU that is running the software.

This is just more bollocks from "Krazy Ken"... he has NO idea what is in the PS3... I bet he hasn't even worked on it. He is just sitting in his large villa in Tokyo, eating sushi watching Geishas and drinking too much sake before interviews.

[ElectricMonk]

somebody should setup a webpage of "ps3facts" similar to chucknorrisfacts.com, built around the legend ken is kreating

[Dag-Sabot]

Well... At the very least, it is entertaining to watch a Sony head honcho crab making an ass of himself for massive PR damage.

[Borys]

So I see an interesting newspost quoting Ken Kutaragi. I click on it. What do I see inside?

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/roar/photogallery/images/gallery_06.jpg

PS Kutaragi *is* a looney.

[rein]

http://www.stateofinsomnia.com/images/evavnews.JPG

Enough with the giant grab jokes.

[Kamalot]

http://www.stateofinsomnia.com/images/evavnews.JPG

Enough with the giant grab jokes.
That's a funny picture, even if it is wrong. :p

[Citizen Philip]

I am actually. For example, i hate you, a lot.

Get in line, gimp.

[KidCactus]

>You do realize that online, distributed computing projects have been around a while now?

Yes and they have nothing to do with the CPU that is running the software.
I don't see what your point is. Of course it is software running on the CELL doing it, not the chip itself.

And I don't see why a developers server couldn't upload an agent (or the PS3 could have it in its OS, with some sort of API) to any connected PS3, to help the server with computing whatever it needs computing. In theory, since that's how grid computing works everywhere else. Why they would do this, that I don't know, since the servers would hardly need to do any hardcore number crunching. But then again, what he says is that it would be possible to do.

[Returner]

Ken Kutaragi = tard, but you all knew that. I just had to say it again.

[Voodoo]

And I don't see why a developers server couldn't upload an agent (or the PS3 could have it in its OS, with some sort of API) to any connected PS3, to help the server with computing whatever it needs computing. In theory, since that's how grid computing works everywhere else. Why they would do this, that I don't know, since the servers would hardly need to do any hardcore number crunching. But then again, what he says is that it would be possible to do.
I don't believe there is a wide area network type of grid running anywhere that can provide real time data. Grid computing is most often used to provide calculations over time and is rarely done for real time calculations. The closest you can get with real time data and a grid is by building a Beowulf Cluster.

[F3nyx]

You do realize that online, distributed computing projects have been around a while now?If you're talking along the lines of Folding@Home (http://folding.stanford.edu/) or the SETI thing, that's totally different -- they've got a huge number of calculations sitting around and waiting to be performed. That kind of number-crunching could be done with a Cell, but the chip's parallel capabilities would go unused.

Real-time distributed computing, which Sony's describing, seems incredibly impractical. Broadband is fine and dandy for moving moderate amounts of data at a relatively quick pace, but it can't act as a giant bus.

If you consider yourself a near tech-illiterate person, why would you comment on a tech related issue and fill it with your hyperbole?If you're just attacking a minor aside of his rather than contesting the details of his argument, why are you even in this thread? At least he's commenting on the goddamn issue, which is more than can be said for you.

[Kamalot]

I don't see what your point is. Of course it is software running on the CELL doing it, not the chip itself.

And I don't see why a developers server couldn't upload an agent (or the PS3 could have it in its OS, with some sort of API) to any connected PS3, to help the server with computing whatever it needs computing. In theory, since that's how grid computing works everywhere else. Why they would do this, that I don't know, since the servers would hardly need to do any hardcore number crunching. But then again, what he says is that it would be possible to do.
Well, if it is doable through software, why can't every network-aware console run distributed computing?

[UglyPimp]

I told my friend a year or so ago I was going to get an Xbox 2 as long as it had a sequel to Fable, to which he replied 'But you can hook up multiple PS3's to produce the CGI Final Fantasy movie. In fact they rendered it on a bunch of PS3 prototypes.'

This was coming from a 30 year old man. Needless to say there wasn't an effecient enough real-life rolleye emote to justify the stupidity of that statement.

[Kamalot]

I told my friend a year or so ago I was going to get an Xbox 2 as long as it had a sequel to Fable, to which he replied 'But you can hook up multiple PS3's to produce the CGI Final Fantasy movie. In fact they rendered it on a bunch of PS3 prototypes.'

This was coming from a 30 year old man. Needless to say there wasn't an effecient enough real-life rolleye emote to justify the stupidity of that statement.Stupid or not, I know a LOT of the early hype for the Cell was all about network computing. Early reports claimed you would have a Cell processor in your PS3, your TV and other devices around your home. They were supposed to work together like one giant computer, enhancing your game. That seemed to fall apart when the cell got closer to reality, but the damage is done. Sony made absolutely outrageous claims about some mystic vaopr of a product that people still believe to this day.

[HumpYourWay]

All I keep picturing is some start Trek thing.

Ken Kutaragi saying to Phil Harrison, "PHILLY! We need more POWER!"

"I'm Givin' er all she's got kenny, if I give her any more the whole things gonna blow!"

NERD HUMOR FOREVER!

[Sl1pstream]

somebody should setup a webpage of "ps3facts" similar to chucknorrisfacts.com, built around the legend ken is kreating

UK: Resistance started a wiki a while ago, which can be found here (http://wikihost.org/wikis/ukres/programm/gebo.prg?name=sonyps3_lies).

[Citizen Philip]

If you're talking along the lines of Folding@Home (http://folding.stanford.edu/) or the SETI thing, that's totally different -- they've got a huge number of calculations sitting around and waiting to be performed. That kind of number-crunching could be done with a Cell, but the chip's parallel capabilities would go unused.

Real-time distributed computing, which Sony's describing, seems incredibly impractical. Broadband is fine and dandy for moving moderate amounts of data at a relatively quick pace, but it can't act as a giant bus.

If you're just attacking a minor aside of his rather than contesting the details of his argument, why are you even in this thread? At least he's commenting on the goddamn issue, which is more than can be said for you.

It's interesting that your whole post is a more detailed description of what I was already asking/curious about. As what seems to be implied and potential lost in translation doesn't make any sense. My point, was he has no argument, and wasn't adding anything other than layperson fud. But thanks, for caring and sticking up for him.

[Bone]

Actually, I rather like what he says earlier...

"You can't charge money for network matching and other basic services. These things are just taken for granted on the PC."

I'd be happy if MS thought that way.
I'd rather pay Microsoft a meager 50 bucks a year and have an actual service that I can officially complain about if it doesn't work. When you pay a company for something, there is this implied understanding that they owe you something in return.

When someone gives you something for free, you really don't have room to ask for improvements. Considering Sony's current online "plan", I don't expect much. Also, as great as it is that the DS is online, many complaints about Friend Codes have been ignored, and why? "It's free, you'll take it and like it!"

As for distributed computing, sure it works for SETI and other programs that don't require real-time data returned to the server every 10 milliseconds. I will go out on a limb and predict that real-time distributed computing (for an action game) over today's broadband is not going to be ushered in by the PS3.

But in a LAN environment, it could actually be cool if the more PS3s you plug in, the more stable the server becomes.

[Neosho]

But in a LAN environment, it could actually be cool if the more PS3s you plug in, the more stable the server becomes.

Oh man...i could see this being a slippery slope..."Please plug in 2 more PS3s for optimal networkstablity!" :p

[Skizott]

http://www.stateofinsomnia.com/images/evavnews.JPG

Enough with the giant grab jokes.


Finally! Shit.

MASSIVE DAMAGE, CRAB. HURRRRRRR :rolleyes:

[F3nyx]

It's interesting that your whole post is a more detailed description of what I was already asking/curious about. As what seems to be implied and potential lost in translation doesn't make any sense. My point, was he has no argument, and wasn't adding anything other than layperson fud. But thanks, for caring and sticking up for him.Sorry, I didn't see your first post. But the whole point of his statement was that it doesn't take an expert to see the flaws in this proposal, which is entirely true. I'm probably as much of a "layperson" is he is.