PS3 ports of PC games... might take a while.

[pseudopseudo]

Producer Hiromichi Tanaka goes on record (http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=452561&page=0), talking about game developing for the PC and PS3. He also shares his thoughts on porting games to new hardware (including bringing FFXI to the PS3), and reveals some seemingly obvious, yet still interesting information:

The Xbox 360 operating system shares enough similarities with Windows, he said, so that porting the Windows version of FFXI to the 360 was a fairly quick task. A PS3 version of FFXI, on the other hand, would require redeveloping the game almost from scratch, a process that Tanaka estimated would take two or three years.

Two or three years? PS4 might be well on it's way by the time you see your favorite PC game on the PS3. Scary.

[Oddmaker]

Well like developers have been saying, XBox360 is easy to code for.

[KidCactus]

Oh yeah, I can't wait to play PC port on a PS3... :rolleyes:

[Grifter]

Wait.....I thought the PS3 was a computer......I'm so confused.:rolleyes:

[KamaItachi]

Well, I guess this will put the rumours of WOW on the PS3 to rest. I guess things like the new Square MMORPG(s) must be built from the ground up for multiple platforms.

[Heretic Machine]

Well, that is what happens when you try to power your console with Super-Happy-Mega-Fun-Cell-Fairies.

[KidCactus]

Wait.....I thought the PS3 was a computer......I'm so confused.:rolleyes:
How does this make it less a computer?

[Borys]

What has already been said in this thread +

PS2 was also "hard" to develop for and you know what? It sold gazillions WITHOUT the help of PC ports.

Leave the PC games on the PC and console games on the PS3, thank you very much.

[Heretic Machine]

What has already been said in this thread +

PS2 was also "hard" to develop for and you know what? It sold gazillions WITHOUT the help of PC ports.

Leave the PC games on the PC and console games on the PS3, thank you very much.

Yes, but Borys... what about Wii and 360 games? Multiplatform games make up a huge part of the casual market (something that the PS3 is going to have a hard time penetrating to begin with), and how much easier do you think they'll be to port to the PS3?

[Borys]

Yes, but Borys... what about Wii and 360 games?

You really do think a Wii version of a game will share assets with a 360 one? Please. You are spitting in the face of 360 fanbase with that statement!

There will be two dev. roads - deving a game for Wii and PS2 (still a huge market) and PSP (PS2 ports FTL!) and a second dev. road - deving a game for PS3/ 360/ PC. Much like there are two ways of deving in handheld market - one for the DS/ GBA other for PSP.

Multiplatform games make up a huge part of the casual market (something that the PS3 is going to have a hard time penetrating to begin with), and how much easier do you think they'll be to port to the PS3?

Nothing will change. PS3 will get quick port ups from the 360 with 0 to 5% of additional changes that could use some fancy Cell power or Blu-Ray disk space. The same Madden you will be playing on your 360 I will be hating on my PS3.

EA, Activision, Epic etc. all will provide engines and dev. tools that will be used for multiplatform deving.

Always have, always will.

There's no reason to panic or paint the PS3 multiplatform future grim. Did EA cancel any multiplatform title for the PS3? Did UBI? Activision? Nope. Those lazy bastards will just churn out multiplatform crap after crap just like they did this gen.

[Heretic Machine]

You really do think a Wii version of a game will share assets with a 360 one? Please. You are spitting in the face of 360 fanbase with that statement!

There will be two dev. roads - deving a game for Wii and PS2 (still a huge market) and PSP (PS2 ports FTL!) and a second dev. road - deving a game for PS3/ 360/ PC. Much like there are two ways of deving in handheld market - one for the DS/ GBA other for PSP.

Except that the difference between the power of a Wii and a PS2 is much greater than the difference between a Wii and a 360 (or even a PS3). The PS2 was pretty much a dog last generation, and I would guess that the power difference between a PS2 and a XBOX was much harder to deal with. The Wii itself is supposed to be more powerful than an XBOX, and we already see ports of XBOX titles on the 360, so it is very likely that we'll be seeing essentially the same multiplatform titles on the Wii and the 360, with slightly altered gameplay.

The PS3 appearently can't be reconciled with these two consoles (if it is that hard to port a PC game, certainly it will be just as hard or harder to port other console's games to it), so there'll have to be a significant amount of resources dedicated to nothing but the PS3 port of a multiplatform title.

Nothing will change. PS3 will get quick port ups from the 360 with 0 to 5% of additional changes that could use some fancy Cell power or Blu-Ray disk space. The same Madden you will be playing on your 360 I will be hating on my PS3.

EA, Activision, Epic etc. all will provide engines and dev. tools that will be used for multiplatform deving.

Always have, always will.

There's no reason to panic or paint the PS3 multiplatform future grim. Did EA cancel any multiplatform title for the PS3? Did UBI? Activision? Nope. Those lazy bastards will just churn out multiplatform crap after crap just like they did this gen.

If it is hard to port PC titles to the PS3, it will be just as hard (or harder) to port 360 titles to it. I don't see any reason to assume otherwise.

[darkwarrior]

2-3 years? That must be an exaggeration. Once you have a fully working source code for a fully functional game, it might take a while but more than a year? MOre than 6 months? Is this a team of 5 working 10 hours a week?

[EvilBob46]

If it is hard to port PC titles to the PS3, it will be just as hard (or harder) to port 360 titles to it. I don't see any reason to assume otherwise.

Since when are developers going to just port over 360 titles? There might be a few 360 ports early on, but more than likely, they are either going to develope only for 360 (or only for PS3) or develope for both systems starting from scratch, using the same art assests and models but a different engine optimized for that particular system.

[Heretic Machine]

2-3 years? That must be an exaggeration. Once you have a fully working source code for a fully functional game, it might take a while but more than a year? MOre than 6 months? Is this a team of 5 working 10 hours a week?

His point was that he would need to make entirely new code for the PS3 because it is just that different. I don't see any motivation for him to lie either, considering that he works for one of Sony's favorite third-party developers.

Since when are developers going to just port over 360 titles? There might be a few 360 ports early on, but more than likely, they are either going to develope only for 360 (or only for PS3) or develope for both systems starting from scratch, using the same art assests and models but a different engine optimized for that particular system.

As far as I know, that is not the way things work.

[Borys]

Since when are developers going to just port over 360 titles? There might be a few 360 ports early on, but more than likely, they are either going to develope only for 360 (or only for PS3) or develope for both systems starting from scratch, using the same art assests and models but a different engine optimized for that particular system.

Wrong.

Multiplatform deving doesn't work that way.

[Draft]

The little asterisk you should attach to that statement is that Japanese devs are terrible at working on PCs. They don't care about PCs, they never bothered to learn PC tech, they simply don't care about PCs.

You ever wondered why the one in a million PS2->PC ports always have shitty interfaces, low resolutions and terrible control schemes? It ain't because the developers are bad, per se, it's that they don't know what the fuck to do when it comes to PCs.

[Heretic Machine]

The little asterisk you should attach to that statement is that Japanese devs are terrible at working on PCs. They don't care about PCs, they never bothered to learn PC tech, they simply don't care about PCs.

You ever wondered why the one in a million PS2->PC ports always have shitty interfaces, low resolutions and terrible control schemes? It ain't because the developers are bad, per se, it's that they don't know what the fuck to do when it comes to PCs.

That is true, actually...

[inmostlight]

Since when are developers going to just port over 360 titles? There might be a few 360 ports early on, but more than likely, they are either going to develope only for 360 (or only for PS3) or develope for both systems starting from scratch, using the same art assests and models but a different engine optimized for that particular system.

That, or the developers use a common engine. Final Fantasy XI was a special beast made for the PC and other consoles, so I can see that taking a few years to rebuild from scratch. If everything the devs say is true, though, a game made with the Unreal engine or Renderware or something should be much quicker and easier to port from the PC to the 360, the PS3, and the Wii.

[Johan]

How does this make it less a computer?

It seems to me if Kutaragi and Sony are going to tout the "PC-like" abilities of the PS3, it certainly opens them to criticism when it takes years to port a PC game to the PS3...and I don't think that's because Japanese developers suck or are inexperienced with PCs, as was previously stated in this thread.

If the PS3 is a PC, why is it so hard to port to it from a PC? Because it's not actually as close to a computer as they claim, that's why...

[51|RandoM]

GOOD.

We don't want PC ports on PS3. Name all the great pc ports on ps2, lol.

There is no reason they can't make the game on both platforms at the same time. Take a look at GRAW if you don't think so, or they can go the BF2/BF2MC route.

[KidCactus]

It seems to me if Kutaragi and Sony are going to tout the "PC-like" abilities of the PS3, it certainly opens them to criticism when it takes years to port a PC game to the PS3...and I don't think that's because Japanese developers suck or are inexperienced with PCs, as was previously stated in this thread.

If the PS3 is a PC, why is it so hard to port to it from a PC? Because it's not actually as close to a computer as they claim, that's why...
Your arguments make absolutely no sense at all.

Do you think the PS3 can't be called a game console either, since it's probably hard to port 360 code to it? Or the other way around?

[Thenetcase]

Actually this reminds me of back with EA put separate development teams to work making "the same game". That's where the root of Consolitis started-- because the PC version of those games were so much nicer than the console's bastardized versions. But that's what happens when it takes longer to program for a gaming box than a PC. Go figure, huh?

-TNc-

[jBusy]

If it is hard to port PC titles to the PS3, it will be just as hard (or harder) to port 360 titles to it. I don't see any reason to assume otherwise.
Unless they use the same underlying technology. Unreal Engine 3.0 works for PC, Xbox360 and PS3. If you're making a multiplatform game, you're going to be using a multiplatform engine. The only games that will have porting problems are those that are not designed to be multiplatform but then decide to switch gears.

I have to ask if there is really a reason to port FFXI to PS3? You should be able to play the PS2 version on it, right?

[lkjsmack]

User banned for advertising!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/BanHammer.jpg

[jspeak32]

Yes, but Borys... what about Wii and 360 games? Multiplatform games make up a huge part of the casual market (something that the PS3 is going to have a hard time penetrating to begin with), and how much easier do you think they'll be to port to the PS3?

Hmm, the main problem the original xbox had was it was simply receiving sup'ed up ports of ps2 games, therefore most of the machines muscle was never realized...
Could the porting problem be intentional? Perhaps this is Sony's way of forcing EA to develop their ps3 version of Madden from scratch, for example...thus resulting in less of a port and more of a game specifically developed for the PS3...but this was just something I thought of, I maybe totally off center on this theory...

[jspeak32]

It seems to me if Kutaragi and Sony are going to tout the "PC-like" abilities of the PS3, it certainly opens them to criticism when it takes years to port a PC game to the PS3...and I don't think that's because Japanese developers suck or are inexperienced with PCs, as was previously stated in this thread.

If the PS3 is a PC, why is it so hard to port to it from a PC? Because it's not actually as close to a computer as they claim, that's why...

I read they said it was like a computer, but did they specify it was like a PC?

[Johan]

Kid Cactus: The only thing that prevents a PC game running on any other PC is basically having the minimum specs on your rig to run it. If the PS3 is that hard to port to, it obviously is UNLIKE ANY OTHER PC IN EXISTENCE

And consoles are another beast entirely, genius. Console manufacturers create a product INTENTIONALLY INCOMPATIBLE WITH OTHER CONSOLES.

Have half a brain if you want to dispute my post(s).

jspeak32...perhaps you would like to persuade me that Kutaragi was making a distinction there? Are you saying that "personal computer" and "computer" are distinctly different as it refers to the PS3 and their claim that you can use it as a personal computer?

Geniuses here...

Edit: Quote from Gamespot; "Last week, Sony Worldwide Studios president Phil Harrison caused a semi-furor by insinuating the PlayStation 3 could replace the PC in the home....That line was repeated again today by Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi. " Quote from June 7th, 2006

[holysin]

I wonder if a lot of companies are considering getting the Unreal 3 engine for ps3. How much does it cost, 300k? Might drive costs down and make developing easier :)

[Siraris]

I highly doubt this is true. If you read interviews with developers so far, they say how much easier it is to develop for PS3 than PS2, and there were many cross-platform games on the PS2, including PC ports. If you read the interview on IGN about Heavy Rain, the developers say they got the engine developed for the PS3 in less than 3 months. That doesn't sound like a lot of difficulty if you ask me.

From what I know of development for the PS3, you can write your code like you would for a normal PC, and then adapt it to the Cell architecture. I assume that most of the issues in porting games like XI to the PS3 would be in memory management and handling of data. You don't really need to re-develop all the content or anything. It just seems strange.

[KidCactus]

Kid Cactus: The only thing that prevents a PC game running on any other PC is basically having the minimum specs on your rig to run it. If the PS3 is that hard to port to, it obviously is UNLIKE ANY OTHER PC IN EXISTENCE

And consoles are another beast entirely, genius. Console manufacturers create a product INTENTIONALLY INCOMPATIBLE WITH OTHER CONSOLES.

Have half a brain if you want to dispute my post(s).
Oh my.

No one has claimed the PS3 isn't different from what YOU are refering to as a PC. But why the hell would that make it less a personal computer, if it has similar functions, only because it's programmed in a different matter!?

Can you please define what you think a personal computer must be able to do, to be called a personal computer? And please, can you explain it in a way that me, with less than half a brain, can understand? Don't you think a Mac is a personal computer?

[rainbowblack]

If i cant photoshop on my ps3 then its not a PC. The PS3 is a console thats grants access to the internet with its browser. If that make the PS3 better than a PC. the the PC became obsolete the day the PSP came out.

despite all the jabs at sony latley, im willing to bet next gen looks kinda similar to this gen with sonys market share slipping. how much remains to be seen

[jspeak32]

Kid Cactus: The only thing that prevents a PC game running on any other PC is basically having the minimum specs on your rig to run it. If the PS3 is that hard to port to, it obviously is UNLIKE ANY OTHER PC IN EXISTENCE

And consoles are another beast entirely, genius. Console manufacturers create a product INTENTIONALLY INCOMPATIBLE WITH OTHER CONSOLES.

Have half a brain if you want to dispute my post(s).

jspeak32...perhaps you would like to persuade me that Kutaragi was making a distinction there? Are you saying that "personal computer" and "computer" are distinctly different as it refers to the PS3 and their claim that you can use it as a personal computer?

Geniuses here...

Edit: Quote from Gamespot; "Last week, Sony Worldwide Studios president Phil Harrison caused a semi-furor by insinuating the PlayStation 3 could replace the PC in the home....That line was repeated again today by Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi. " Quote from June 7th, 2006

No need to get all defensive on me, pal. Calm down. A personal computer is just a type of computer. A microwave is a computer. A calculator is a computer. If he was just saying the ps3 is a computer, then it doesn't HAVE to mean its like a personal computer.
But since you gave me that little quote from gamespot, apparently he did mention something about the ps3 replacing the PC in the home. I never said he didn't, I merely asked. I wasn't trying to dispute anything you said. If you're looking for a fight, find someone else that will dispute what you say so you can have an excuse to argue.

[Zanzibar]

User banned for advertising!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/BanHammer.jpg

Oh good, I love the Banhammer.

[Johan]

jspeak32: My apologies to you, as you got some splatter from my angst at the idiot Kid Cactus, who tells me I make "absolutely no sense at all" when I am quite certain I do. Much apologies.

Kid Cactus: I don't understand what planet you are on, or why you originally came at me to state I made "absolutely no sense at all" My post needs no further explanation, except to requote it

"The only thing that prevents a PC game running on any other PC is basically having the minimum specs on your rig to run it. If the PS3 is that hard to port to, it obviously is UNLIKE ANY OTHER PC IN EXISTENCE"

My original point, which made "absolutely no sense at all" to those on your planet was "If the PS3 is a PC, why is it so hard to port to it from a PC? Because it's not actually as close to a computer as they claim, that's why..."

And since they are claiming it can be a replacement for a PC, "Quote from Gamespot; "Last week, Sony Worldwide Studios president Phil Harrison caused a semi-furor by insinuating the PlayStation 3 could replace the PC in the home....That line was repeated again today by Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi. " Quote from June 7th, 2006"...it seems to me that porting games to it would be, actually, unnecessary, since PC games aren't ported to other PCs, they merely run on minimum technical specs.

And any idiot knows that when the majority of the world refers to a PC it means an IBM compatible machine...do some reading. A Mac is of course a 'computer for personal use' but it isn't called a PC by 99.9% of people, it's called a Mac.

How about responding to my ideas, rather than being an idiot and telling me I make no sense at all when I'm making perfect sense?

You almost make me regret my Swedish heritage, which I am usually quite proud of...

[ruceree88]

Oh gee, just what I wanted. To drop six bills on this thing so I can play games I have already played on my computer.

This is the same reason I havent bought a X360. If I want to play CoD2 or Godfather I'll save the money and play it on computer.

[Mr.Condescension]

April 19, 2006 wants your news post back.

[Steele Johnson]

It's a two-way street. The PC will not see all the great games that were developed for the PS3 either.

I don't see how any of this will affect PS3 games. The PS2 had practically the same problem. That didn't stop developers from creating great PS2 games. There are definitely more great games for the PS2 than any of the platforms combined.

As much as I hate Sony, they definitely know how to get the 3rd parties.

[Steele Johnson]

Oh gee, just what I wanted. To drop six bills on this thing so I can play games I have already played on my computer.

This is the same reason I havent bought a X360. If I want to play CoD2 or Godfather I'll save the money and play it on computer.

A lot of people that buy consoles don't have pc's that can play those types of games. They may not even have a pc. And with that said, a console that can easily port pc games is the way to go if you're one of those people.

[fitbabits]

Oh good, I love the Banhammer.
As do I! I haven't had to use it for a long time, but this was deserved.

[Zanzibar]

As do I! I haven't had to use it for a long time, but this was deserved.

It's always fun when I see posts like that with 'Posts: 1' next to some craptastic randomly generated name. I say to myself, 'I wonder if he'll be banned by the time I quote him and insult him,' sure enough, every time. BANNED. Long live the Reds!

[laggerific]

If i cant photoshop on my ps3 then its not a PC. The PS3 is a console thats grants access to the internet with its browser. If that make the PS3 better than a PC. the the PC became obsolete the day the PSP came out.

despite all the jabs at sony latley, im willing to bet next gen looks kinda similar to this gen with sonys market share slipping. how much remains to be seen


What makes it computer-like is that it can be upgraded...and I'm guessing it sounds like it has a wide variety of possible upgrades, similar to a PC. Although, technically, MS could upgrade a truckload of things on the 360 through the USB port. So the only distinction I really see is who wants to use that as a marketing point, and how they use it as a marketing point.

[kickmybum]

As do I! I haven't had to use it for a long time, but this was deserved.

How come the ban hammer guy has a little pee pee? You would think a guy with that kind of power should be weilding some elephant balls or something.

Anyways, what everyone says is right. The only one who actually cares about not having PC ports on their PS3 will be a PS3 owner who doesn't own a PC... and if one of these guys exist, they're obviously low grade scum whose vote doesn't count anyways, right guys?

[Miyamootoo]

Well 2-3 years to make a game in 4D isn't that bad right? :P

[EvilBob46]

Wrong.

Multiplatform deving doesn't work that way.

You're saying that EA is basically going to run pretty much the same game engine for Madden NFL 2007 on both PS3 and 360?

[Dracula-X]

You're saying that EA is basically going to run pretty much the same game engine for Madden NFL 2007 on both PS3 and 360?
That's what Renderware is for...

[Mr.Condescension]

That's what Renderware is for...

The question then is which system will be the primary system. What was the primary system in the last generation? Obviously they improved the graphics for the Xbox versions compared to the PS2 versions, but the PS2 versions were always the most feature-rich versions (which I believe is also currently the case). So which one is the primary that gets ported to the other systems?

[Mike Jones]

April 19th 2006 is news? I guess there has to be at least 1 anti Sony thread per day.

[mister_slim]

If i cant photoshop on my ps3 then its not a PC. The PS3 is a console thats grants access to the internet with its browser. If that make the PS3 better than a PC. the the PC became obsolete the day the PSP came out.
The PSX had photo and video editing capabilities. Does that make the PS2 a PC?
The question then is which system will be the primary system. What was the primary system in the last generation? Obviously they improved the graphics for the Xbox versions compared to the PS2 versions, but the PS2 versions were always the most feature-rich versions (which I believe is also currently the case). So which one is the primary that gets ported to the other systems?
I'd guess the 360, since they've already shipped on that platform.

[Mr.Condescension]

I'd guess the 360, since they've already shipped on that platform.

I was referring to the 2007 versions that will ship for all 3 systems, not the dumbed down version they ported from the ps2 to the 360. The current case you mention is not fair to the 360.

[BenSkywalker]

Anyone here ever work on an IRIX workstation? They were built by SGI(Irix is the OS, they had several different lines of machines that utilized it), they were fairly nasty graphics workstations in their day- destroying what PCs were capable of for many years. These systems overwhelmingly utilized an UMA and they all ran MIPS based processors with custom SGI graphics. For the time, these were monsterously powerful workstations.

Ports to and from the PC were nigh never done because of how extremely difficult it was going either way. There were a few exceptions, notably high end 3D viz packages and video editing software- but they were very long in coming and very difficult to handle. Mind you, this is two machines that look just like PCs, they both have towers, with keyboards and a mouse, they both go on line, they both are used for desktop applications- but they were two completely different beasts. I will tell you that the Irix machines were far more capable of being PCs then PCs of their time were(for the price they had better be) but that did not help in the slightest that porting between the two was saved for a very small segment of software and then it was nigh entirely due to economic forces making it a requirement(ie- NT workstations evolving to the point where they could finally match up performance wise making the staggering price difference unacceptable).

Why this rant about some old workstations? Just because porting between a PC and a PS3 will be non existant(the level they are talking about is not porting- it is two different ground up builds of the same game) in no way makes KK's comments about the PS3 being a computer any less valid. There are so many different genuinely good reasons why it isn't a computer I don't want to see this one pointed to and shot down :p

[mister_slim]

I was referring to the 2007 versions that will ship for all 3 systems, not the dumbed down version they ported from the ps2 to the 360. The current case you mention is not fair to the 360.
And the 2007 version is just going to be an iteration of the 360 engine, hopefully more feature complete. Surely you've figured out EA's development process?

[IrishWhiskey]

I'm honestly very confused by fellow Sony fans saying this story is a good thing, that "We dont need no PC games". At best you can be indifferent, at worst, our options are limited. Right now Xbox has FEAR, Bioshock, LOTR: Battle for Middle Earth, Prey, Alan Wake, Shadowrun and many other quality PC games in development for 360. Please tell me that these and others won't be time delayed for PS3, or even 360 exclusives. With LiveAnywhere, Microsoft seems to saying that multiplayer with PCs is part of their strategy. They know good PC games (like CoD2) are a good way to grow their library. I mean, Bioshock was rated game of the show by many publications.

And so help me God, if the PS3 version of Spore is delayed because of this, heads will roll.

Oh and finally, who cares how you define a PC. Everyone knows that it won't be a replacement, and Sony has said that there will be minimum supported hardware standards.