Stranglehold Confirmed for PS3 Launch

[Mr.Condescension]

According to playfrance.com (http://www.playfrance.com/news-infos-stranglehold-confirme-au-day-one.html) Midway has announced Stranglehold as a launch title for Sony's PS3. The title is also going to be available on the Xbox 360.

Here is the text translated by google:
[Infos] Stranglehold confirmed in Day One!

In his last planning of exits, the Midway editor confirms that spectacular Stranglehold will accompany PlayStation 3 during its launching next on November 17 in France. This play of action to the third nobody inspired of max Payne joined thus NBA Live 07, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007, MotorStorm, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Sonic The HedgeHog, Untold Legend Dark Kingdom and well of others in the line-up of exit of the console of Sony.While this isn't exactly a victory for Sony (the title is cross-platform) it is nice to see the launch list firming up at least a little.

[Eran Hawke]

Ma, I had no idea the PS3 lineup was so NOT awesome. That is a lame list of games with only 2 exclusives. How can I justify dropping 200 more than the competition to play junk?

:(

Come on. I need to be WOWED by the PS3!

[Heretic Machine]

Ma, I had no idea the PS3 lineup was so NOT awesome. That is a lame list of games with only 2 exclusives. How can I justify dropping 200 more than the competition to play junk?

:(

Come on. I need to be WOWED by the PS3!

Give'em a year... they should have a decent library by then, and the price will of probably dropped by $50. Both of those assumptions are running under the notion that they won't fuck up in a bigger way than they ever have before.

[Reanimated]

Ma, I had no idea the PS3 lineup was so NOT awesome. That is a lame list of games with only 2 exclusives. How can I justify dropping 200 more than the competition to play junk?

:(

Come on. I need to be WOWED by the PS3!



See the 2nd link in my sig and prepare to be wowed off your ass.

OT:

This game looks awesome. I'll be picking it up for the 360.

[bean19]

Actually, wait until 2007 if you love MGS and must have it, or wait until 2008 if you love Final Fantasy and must have it. :)

Hopefully, the PS3 will only cost like $300 by late 2008 when the English version of Final Fantasy is finally coming out.

[sTubbs]

Actually, wait until 2007 if you love MGS and must have it, or wait until 2008 if you love Final Fantasy and must have it. :)

Hopefully, the PS3 will only cost like $300 by late 2008 when the English version of Final Fantasy is finally coming out.

Like hell I am paying 300 USD for a 2 to 3 year old console. Also, I maybe see the PS3 going for 400 minimum by that time. Look how long it has taken them to drop the PS2 down.

Like Reanimated, this game will be mine on the 360.

[Kamalot]

See the 2nd link in my sig and prepare to be wowed off your ass.

OT:

This game looks awesome. I'll be picking it up for the 360.
That video was AMAZING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz5wBkQyXkc

Thanks for sharing it. I love the incredible use of the physics engine in the game, it makes everything worth the wait. :D

[Kamalot]

Hopefully, the PS3 will only cost like $300 by late 2008 when the English version of Final Fantasy is finally coming out.That's funny. Wii is going to retail for less than the PS3 is expected to be in late 2008. :eek:

[markster3000]

I think that discussions about the PS3 launch lineup should perhaps wait until maybe a month or two before the actual launch!

This long before the 360 launch, I'm sure things looked just as bleak! (Or at least, terribly misleading, considering the number of titles that slipped launch)

[Mr.Condescension]

I think that discussions about the PS3 launch lineup should perhaps wait until maybe a month or two before the actual launch!

This long before the 360 launch, I'm sure things looked just as bleak! (Or at least, terribly misleading, considering the number of titles that slipped launch)

Indeed. This obviously is not the final launch list. I think news that they're adding a game to the launch is worth noting. Judgements about the entire launch are quite premature.

[bean19]

Indeed. This obviously is not the final launch list. I think news that they're adding a game to the launch is worth noting. Judgements about the entire launch are quite premature.

Actually terribly misleading as they had a list out about this time that was super-impressive. . . of course, the only slips that I think anyone cared about were DoA and Elder Scrolls.

All PR likes to release early if they are impressive, or release late if they are not, of course. Hopefully, we will be getting launch lineups for both the Wii and the PS3 soon.

[Kelegacy]

That video was AMAZING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz5wBkQyXkc

Thanks for sharing it. I love the incredible use of the physics engine in the game, it makes everything worth the wait. :D
You and Reanimated are both massive tools.

[Kamalot]

You and Reanimated are both massive tools.
The little (:D) indicates I am not serious. Surely you knew that already.

[Reanimated]

You and Reanimated are both massive tools.




And that makes you what? A crane? Because you're easily the biggest tool here.

[Kelegacy]

And that makes you what? A crane? Because you're easily the biggest tool here.
OUCH!

You got me.

I saw your first reply before you edited it. It's nice to know I sent your noggin' into think mode, a rarity though it is.

[Watership]

Aside from the fanboyism that's going on, on all sides, in this forum, there is something to be said for all the bad press Sony is getting.

It's going to work in their favour eventually.

Really. It's 5 months to Launch. Sony really set the bar too high with the hype in E3'05, and E3'06 didn't meet it. There has been lots of shock over price, over performance and annoyance at Sony PR screw ups that make Microsoft look great.

Howver, in a few months the PS3 will be out and PS3 won't look so bad. In fact, it might get an easier ride from everyone (compared to the 360s launch) due to extra time for hardware, and the LOW expectations being set now. When people see it's not a complete disaster, things will look okay for Sony.

[TegSkywalker]

The title is also going to be available on the Xbox 360. As it should!

[sTubbs]

Aside from the fanboyism that's going on, on all sides, in this forum, there is something to be said for all the bad press Sony is getting.

It's going to work in their favour eventually.

Really. It's 5 months to Launch. Sony really set the bar too high with the hype in E3'05, and E3'06 didn't meet it. There has been lots of shock over price, over performance and annoyance at Sony PR screw ups that make Microsoft look great.

Howver, in a few months the PS3 will be out and PS3 won't look so bad. In fact, it might get an easier ride from everyone (compared to the 360s launch) due to extra time for hardware, and the LOW expectations being set now. When people see it's not a complete disaster, things will look okay for Sony.

And then people will see the 600 USD price tag and walk away laughing. Or at least I would hope that is what they would do, if humans had even the tiniest amount of sense.

[mulligan]

Is Reanimated a viral marketing bot for Microsoft? There is a fine line between criticism and just fanboy bullshit, I mean... you actually make a sig on anti sony videos? is it your own personal goal to make Sony fail? are you getting paid for this? Why can't you understant that monopoly is good for no one? wait... thats just me and my freaking common sense...

[Jasonp107]

Here's the thing that I think a lot of fanboyism really misses: that the consoles - all three of them - are incredible machines.

They just serve different purposes. For me - I know I'm getting myself a Wii. This is largely because I just can't afford the other consoles. But that's OK, I'm not Sony's target market.

The PS3 is going to be a fantastic and beautiful machine, (the 360 is also pretty slick) - and they'll each have a few flagship games that won't cross over (Final Fantasy and Halo come to mind).

Sony's gotten a lot of bad press because of their price, and because it's looked like they've been copying features from other consoles. My guess is they've just been playing it closer to the chest because they don't want people to know how much more the ps3 is going to be than "just a console."

The price is fine - just realize you're not buying a console anymore.

[Siraris]

See the 2nd link in my sig and prepare to be wowed off your ass.

OT:

This game looks awesome. I'll be picking it up for the 360.


Seriously, how much is Microsoft paying you? I have to know. I know viral marketing is the latest rage, but this is getting ridiculous.

[Reanimated]

Why can't you understant that monopoly is good for no one? wait... thats just me and my freaking common sense...




I agree with you.

Sony HAS the monopoly on the games industry... that's just me and my freaking common sense.

[thecrazyd]

I agree with you.

Sony HAS the monopoly on the games industry... that's just me and my freaking common sense.
Having the largest share does not a monopoly make.

[Mr.Condescension]

I agree with you.

Sony HAS the monopoly on the games industry... that's just me and my freaking common sense.

I see now. You're bringing down the man. Now all those posts that don't make any sense...make sense. You don't dislike the PS3 or like the Xbox 360. You just hate "the man" and will say and do anything you can to bring "the man" down. It all makes sense now. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Reanimated]

I don't have anything against the man. I am the man. What's your M.O.?

[bean19]

I'm hoping it will get down to $300. . . but earlier consoles only dropped about one third in price after 2 years. That would still make the PS3 a $400 purchase, which means FF XIII will cost me like $460 +tax.

Ugh. Maybe I can rent it or play it at a friend's house.

I've been talking to a lot of "normal" gamers more now that I've got a summer job waiting tables. Even people who are clear Halo-heads seem to have a problem with the X360's $400 price-tag.

Microsoft would do themselves a favor if they do a price-drop to $300 in conjunction with the PS3 and Wii releases. That would make them affordable to this group. . . Otherwise, I see Wii getting these people's money, and these are the people who don't buy multiple systems.

[Mr.Condescension]

Here's the thing that I think a lot of fanboyism really misses: that the consoles - all three of them - are incredible machines.

The interesting thing about fanboyism is that it creates what I'll call reverse fanboyism. Take myself as an example:

I own a PS2, 2 PCs, a GC, and since my roommate owns an Xbox I bought about a dozen games for it, because I think they're really good. I have no particular allegiance to any company, but I don't really like FPSs and I do like alot of japanese games, so I didn't buy an xbox.

My roommate is going to buy a 360, and I've already made a list of games for the 360 I'm going to buy for us to play, and he's doing the same for when I buy a PS3. It works out perfectly.

So I come to Evil Avatar wanting to hear about the PS3, since I'm not interested in the Wii anymore and the xbox 360 is a known entity. But here's the problem...every single thread about the ps3 or one of its games has all these MS fanboys in it basically arguing with everyone else in the thread and making it so that nobody can actually discuss the system or the games in any meaningful way.

That has caused me (who already plans on buying 360 games!!!) to feel like I have to defend the PS3 threads from the MS fanboys so I can actually read and discuss the thing I want to discuss. I feel the need to combat the fanboy misinformation and untruths.

So that's basically it...I'm a "Reverse Fanboy".

[mulligan]

I don't have anything against the man. I am the man. What's your M.O.?


:rolleyes:


This will make it 10 characters

[bone_matrix]

The interesting thing about fanboyism is that it creates what I'll call reverse fanboyism. Take myself as an example:

I own a PS2, 2 PCs, a GC, and since my roommate owns an Xbox I bought about a dozen games for it, because I think they're really good. I have no particular allegiance to any company, but I don't really like FPSs and I do like alot of japanese games, so I didn't buy an xbox.

My roommate is going to buy a 360, and I've already made a list of games for the 360 I'm going to buy for us to play, and he's doing the same for when I buy a PS3. It works out perfectly.

So I come to Evil Avatar wanting to hear about the PS3, since I'm not interested in the Wii anymore and the xbox 360 is a known entity. But here's the problem...every single thread about the ps3 or one of its games has all these MS fanboys in it basically arguing with everyone else in the thread and making it so that nobody can actually discuss the system or the games in any meaningful way.

That has caused me (who already plans on buying 360 games!!!) to feel like I have to defend the PS3 threads from the MS fanboys so I can actually read and discuss the thing I want to discuss. I feel the need to combat the fanboy misinformation and untruths.

So that's basically it...I'm a "Reverse Fanboy".

Use the ignore feature. Its works out better for everyone.

But, I have to know. It sounds like you like games, but why aren't you looking forward to the Wii?

[Wasson_]

I'm the man, and he's the man, and your the man as well, so you can shove that fucking finger up your assssss!!

who knows...maybe the PS3 will turn out to be like a hooker with a penis.

And sony will be doing the crying game.

But I sevearly doubt it.

[Mr.Condescension]

But, I have to know. It sounds like you like games, but why aren't you looking forward to the Wii?

I feel like Nintendo is no longer trying to make the types of games I want to play and are instead trying to make games for people who don't like games. I don't ascribe to the notion that our controllers are too difficult to use or that games can't look good and be fun as well. If I'm going to spend money on a next gen console to hook up to my new HDTV it's going to have to have really good looking games, not games that look a little better than xbox games. I view the Wii as a peripheral for the gamecube and I already own a gamecube. Your mileage may vary.

[Siraris]

I really don't understand why these discussions even occur. It is not going to change a thing in the end. The PS3 will launch this fall, so will the Wii, and the 360 will be there already. No one on these boards are going to change anyone's opinions, nor are they going to effect the success of the systems.

All of these anti-PS3 news posts are doing one thing; making the PS3 more popular. No news is bad news, I think anyone with a marketing degree would agree. So all these Sony haters are not only helping the PS3, they are just making fools of themselves.

SO with that resolved, how about we get back to the game at hand. This game has some cool potential. I don't know if anyone has played Rise to Honor for PS2, but I loved that game, and I'm hoping this will follow suit.

[Johan]

Google text translation: "This play of action to the third nobody inspired of max Payne joined thus NBA Live 07, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007, MotorStorm, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Sonic The HedgeHog, Untold Legend Dark Kingdom and well of others in the line-up of exit of the console of Sony."

Google translate text attempt suck bad me no understand any all. ;)

[RMan]

Sony HAS the monopoly on the games industry... that's just me and my freaking common sense.
Yes, because MS is a beacon of promoting a competitive marketplace, and wouldn't be interested in yet another monopoly. <That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious>

Clearly Reanimated is a MS tool, whether or not he’s getting paid by them. It’s funny to me though, I don’t see how these MS fanatics actually think the arguments they present are going to sway anyone, they’re so outlandish they’re only accepted to those that are already sold (preaching to the choir). I thought the video posted was kinda cute, but honestly, the hyperbole is so extreme in some of the anti-Sony arguments that it actually moves me more towards wanting a PS3 instead of the intended effect (it just sounds like a desperate crazy person that you would avoid eye-contact with on the street).

I don't ascribe to the notion that our controllers are too difficult to use or that games can't look good and be fun as well.
I don’t believe that Nintendo does either. I’ve seen no such indication that Nintendo thinks games should not look good or that looking good is mutually exclusive with being fun, just that the focus on primarily making games look better is not going to grow the industry and is not as valuable as MS and Sony would like you to believe (which by the response from E3 this seems to be true even among the core gaming market). Keep in mind, the only way games look as good as the best presentation material we’ve seen is not just because of better hardware, but because of far more money being spent on them as well. In short, I’m quite sure that if Nintendo could get innovation, accessibility, and sky-high production values they’d fully embrace it, as would I or anyone using their head, but the world doesn’t work that way. In the real world focus matters, huge budgets do stifle creativity, and you can’t have everything without tradeoffs, and this is why Nintendo is going in a different direction than MS and Sony.

I do however think they feel the standard controller is more complex than their solution, and although I haven’t used it yet, I’m definitely inclined to believe them. I also think traditional controllers are difficult enough to turn potential gamers away, how many we will likely never know.

[Mr.Condescension]

This game has some cool potential. I don't know if anyone has played Rise to Honor for PS2, but I loved that game, and I'm hoping this will follow suit.

The game does look pretty interesting. The animation looks a little bit stilted to me, but pretty much everything in the environment is destructible. I think it'll all come down to the feel and control, which I haven't really heard much about. I'm hopeful, though.

[Mr.Condescension]

I don’t believe that Nintendo does either. I’ve seen no such indication that Nintendo thinks games should not look good or that looking good is mutually exclusive with being fun, just that the focus on primarily making games look better is not going to grow the industry...

I think maybe I wasn't as clear as I'd have liked. I have nothing against Nintendo marketing their product differently and wanting to expand the market or "grow the industry" as you've stated. I personally don't care about growing the industry, I care about games that I like and systems that are marketed at me, and Nintendo is just not trying to get my money this time around. Game systems I'm interested in have a baseline graphical standard that I feel needs to be met. Those are my tastes only and I have no interest in convincing someone else to buy or not to buy the wii. I'm just not interested in it at this time.

On a somewhat related note, I don't believe that advances in processing power and graphics over the years haven't had effects other than making games look better. I feel like overall games play better now than in the past in addition to looking better. I expect this trend to continue and that we will not only get better graphics but also better gameplay also in this generation as in each previous one.

[RMan]

We’re getting off subject, so I’ll keep responses brief.
I care about games that I like and systems that are marketed at me, and Nintendo is just not trying to get my money this time around.
You may change your mind. I think Nintendo is trying to appeal to you too, they just can’t base their products purely on what you’re buying, or they’ll never make anything new. If you truly do not want anything new, then Nintendo is not, I think, marketing to you. However, I believe practically everyone wants new experiences, but like before they played their favorite games they don’t know what they want, much less how to ask for it.
Game systems I'm interested in have a baseline graphical standard that I feel needs to be met.
BTW, I think you mean games, not game systems. I’m quite confident the top tier Wii titles will beat the average 360/PS3 titles, unless you require HDTV I’m sure many will meet that baseline, just not as many as the 360/PS3 likely will.
I expect this trend to continue and that we will not only get better graphics but also better gameplay also in this generation as in each previous one.
Yep, no doubt about that.

[Mr.Condescension]

We’re getting off subject, so I’ll keep responses brief.

I will as well. I think you're right, Nintendo might in fact change my mind when a game comes out that grips me by the short hairs. So far nothing does, so I find it hard to be truly excited about potential. I'd probably feel the same way about Sony at this point, but for a few titles down the pipe that I always enjoy. My turning point on PS3 was seeing Heavenly Sword in action and seeing screens of Resistance at full res and not being able to spot a jaggy. I sincerely hope Nintendo makes me want their system down the line, because if they do it's an easy purchase considering the price.

[Kefkataran]

Is Reanimated a viral marketing bot for Microsoft? There is a fine line between criticism and just fanboy bullshit, I mean...

Yeah, he may not actually be one, but he may as well be.

[Borys]

Reanimated is a bitter, jaded loser (see my sig). Leave him alone folks. Everyone here sees through his bullshit and it's better to ignore him and not reply to his vomitted crap over and over again.

Kamalot on the other hand has a sense of humour and that saves him.

Go Kamalot!

[Siraris]

I will as well. I think you're right, Nintendo might in fact change my mind when a game comes out that grips me by the short hairs. So far nothing does, so I find it hard to be truly excited about potential. I'd probably feel the same way about Sony at this point, but for a few titles down the pipe that I always enjoy. My turning point on PS3 was seeing Heavenly Sword in action and seeing screens of Resistance at full res and not being able to spot a jaggy. I sincerely hope Nintendo makes me want their system down the line, because if they do it's an easy purchase considering the price.

I have to agree with you and RMan. I was a huge fan of Nintendo, and then the N64 came along. I remember absolutely bursting with enthusiasm when in the months leading up to its release, and when it came, I was crushed. I finally bought a Gamecube, and it really sits there for the most part. I loved RE4, I loved Wind Waker, but there really wasn't much else that attracted me. I held out for a DS and finally got one and I couldn't stop playing for the first few weeks. I tore through all the Castlevanias, and played Traumacenter until my hand almost fell off, but now I'm looking at the games coming out, and I'm starting to get that same old feeling.

Nintendos formula of taking a game and changing it slightly just won't work. I loved Super Smash Brothers 1, I didn't like 2, and I doubt I'll like 3 much. I loved Mario Party, but at this point it's enough. I was saying to a friend of mine the other day that a game like Metal Gear Solid or Prince of Persia can have sequal after sequal because a lot more changes than just a few new characters and some new items. The whole setting changes, the story changes, the characters involve change. It may be the same gameplay slightly tweaked, but at least it isn't the same game with some tweaked gameplay.

I've been playing games for over 20 years now, and I still go back to the same games that I love, but I also try new games as well. (I tried the Loco Roco demo last night and LOVED it). I am not saying that I don't want developers to innovate because that would be awful, but there is a bit of a formula for a really good game. Churning out (Insert character here) 4-5-6 isn't going to cut it for the most part unless there's a feeling like it's a new game. The interesting thing is, Castlevania and Zelda (two staples of Nintendo) are always new and exciting for me because it's still Link or a Belmont but in a new scenario with new battles to fight.

Anyway's, again we've veered off topic. I wish all the best to Nintendo in their efforts, but I really am hoping that we will see some new franchises instead of Mario 37 or Bowsers Wahoo BBQ and Minature Golf.

[thenefariousone]

The discussions occur because:
(a) the PS3 brand is huge
(b) the recent news about Sony is not good news for them.

There are certainly posts on this and other websites that are purely anti-ps3 in one way or another.

However - most of the recent news about the ps3 is from Sony itself. It's not some massive negative campaign against the console.

An example of recent news:
(1)ps3 costs $500-$600. $500-$600 is expensive for a game console.*

Is that negative or biased reporting? No, because that's what it costs. For it's primary purpose (to play games), it's expensive. It's expensive in comparion to it's competitors and compared to the ps2 (which also played then "next gen" movies) when it came out.

This will inevitably lead to every game on the console being more strictly criticized, as the cost of entry is higher than the competition.


(2)Strangehold comes is not a ps3 launch exclusive.

At the end of the day, one's interest is not the platform itself, it's the games that you want to play. You want to play <game x>, so you buy the system that plays it. If multiple systems play it, you have the luxury of choosing the best value for your money.

If Stranglehold was only coming out for the ps3, then it would be an extra reason (depending on how good the actual game is) to get the ps3.

But, Stranglehold coming out for the ps3 and the xbox 360 is one less reason to get the ps3.


*
To say "well it's more than a console, it's a computer" therefore it's worth the cost - well that's just hype from Sony. Every game console is a computer. All companies hype, this is not only something that Sony does.

Stephen Glicker who's an industry insider and runs gamingsteve.com, said on a recent podcast words similiar to those you read here all the time: there's a lot of hype out there, and the ps3 being anything more than a game console is hype generated to justify the cost.


As long as the device costs that much, price will always be a factor. While many of us here have the luxury of being able to buy a system when it comes out, or splitting the cost with a friend, the majority of the people who bought those 100 million ps2s and ps1s don't.

For them price will always be a factor. Most of those sales came after price drops to $199 or less.


I really don't understand why these discussions even occur. It is not going to change a thing in the end. The PS3 will launch this fall, so will the Wii, and the 360 will be there already. No one on these boards are going to change anyone's opinions, nor are they going to effect the success of the systems.

All of these anti-PS3 news posts are doing one thing; making the PS3 more popular. No news is bad news, I think anyone with a marketing degree would agree. So all these Sony haters are not only helping the PS3, they are just making fools of themselves.

SO with that resolved, how about we get back to the game at hand. This game has some cool potential. I don't know if anyone has played Rise to Honor for PS2, but I loved that game, and I'm hoping this will follow suit.

[Mr.Condescension]

Quite a few things

I get what you're saying about there being reasons for people to be down on Sony, but I think you missed Siraris' message, which was (to put words in his mouth) "coming to a PS3 thread to change people's minds is futile."

Stephen Glicker who's an industry insider and runs gamingsteve.com, said on a recent podcast words similiar to those you read here all the time: there's a lot of hype out there, and the ps3 being anything more than a game console is hype generated to justify the cost.

Well, that's all fine and good that he thinks that, but I currently plan on using my PS3 as a DVR using a usb TV Tuner, so maybe not everyone agrees with Mr. Glicker.

[Kefkataran]

Well, that's all fine and good that he thinks that, but I currently plan on using my PS3 as a DVR using a usb TV Tuner, so maybe not everyone agrees with Mr. Glicker.

PS3's going to have DVR capabilities built in? If not, I imagine (and it sounds like it anyways) that you have to go through a fair amount of work and have some real technical ability to accomplish this. If that's the case, then it puts you in a very small minority of individuals who will be psyched about using their PS3 for other, non-gaming stuff. I think what Steve was saying in his podcast is that the non-gaming stuff is most certainly not what's going to appeal to most people who would even consider buying a PS3.

[Mr.Condescension]

PS3's going to have DVR capabilities built in? If not, I imagine (and it sounds like it anyways) that you have to go through a fair amount of work and have some real technical ability to accomplish this. If that's the case, then it puts you in a very small minority of individuals who will be psyched about using their PS3 for other, non-gaming stuff. I think what Steve was saying in his podcast is that the non-gaming stuff is most certainly not what's going to appeal to most people who would even consider buying a PS3.

Who knows how hard it will be, but here is the article relating a famitsu interview with Izumi Kawanishi, SCE's Software Platform Manager:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710286p1.html

One of Kawanishi's biggest revelations was that various generic devices can be connected to the PS3, and he noted that this will allow players to customize their machines to their own liking. Asked if the customization includes a television tuner, which would give the PS3 digital video recorder capabilities, he replied that this should be possible.

So, it's in the works as something you could do with an add-on TV tuner from another company. How will the implementation work and will it be simple or hard? We'll see. I'm not worried about technical obstacles, but computers are my line of work, so take that for what it's worth.

I mentioned it as one example Sony has already put forth as a possible use for the PS3, but that's without mentioning Blu-ray movie playback. If you think no one wants to use the PS3 to play blu-ray movies you've probably missed the actual PS3 posts in between the trolls where people say they are interested in blu-ray movies on the PS3.

The quote "the ps3 being anything more than a game console is hype" from Steve is pretty asinine, I'm sorry to say. Maybe for people who only want a gaming console, but there are alot of people who are interested in other features of the PS3. To assume no one is interested in its other features and that it's just insubstantial "hype" is a very self-centered point of view. Perhaps that he is an "industry insider" makes his view on that particular topic rather moot, since it's the people that aren't industry insiders that will want the non-gaming features.

I will go one step further and posit that the people who read EvAv are not exactly a representative sample of people who will be buying the PS3 for either gaming, blu-ray playback, as a DVR, instead of a Media Center PC, or a combination of multiple reasons. How in the hell would we know?

[antoniogaud]

Not to sound like a MS fanboy, but the 360 is the only console officially expected to incorporate Tivo (and additional DVR abilities). Microsoft recently made a deal with Tivo to extend their DVR functions to all MS platforms.

So I guess the 360 is more than 'just a console' as well? :)

[bapenguin]

Mr.Condescension, this is not meant as an attack on you but merely a generalization due to your Reverse fanboy post a few back.

While you may think you are a reverse "fanboy" and that you have no allegiance to a particular system from all of the news submitted by you and all of your posts you've done nothing but praise Sony. While you may comeoff and say you aren't a Sony fanboy, you are. You just aren't admitting it to us. Is that a big deal?

No, not at all. Everyone on this board likes one system more than another. It's human nature, it's favoritism, it's whatever you want to call it. We can't help it. Don't try to play the neutrality card and think it'll make a difference when people read your posts.

On the other front I do applaud you, because for the most part you're one of the only Sony fans (besides Borys) to actually submit positive Sony news. Everyone else just complains about the fact there's so much negative news...you and Borys actually do something about it. So Bravo.

[bean19]

So I come to Evil Avatar wanting to hear about the PS3, since I'm not interested in the Wii anymore and the xbox 360 is a known entity. But here's the problem...every single thread about the ps3 or one of its games has all these MS fanboys in it basically arguing with everyone else in the thread and making it so that nobody can actually discuss the system or the games in any meaningful way.

All I'm reading that is negative about the PS3 is that it is expensive and that a cohesive launch lineup has not formed up yet. Additionally, I personally recommended that people hold off on their purchase until late 2007 for MGS or late 2008 for FF XIII and hoping that there will then be a price drop.

That's a farcry from "Microsoft rox0rs. PS3 sux0rs."

Fanboyism isn't having an opinion supported by facts. It is having an irrational opinion supported by nothing.

Feel free to disagree with people's opinions, but don't just start calling everyone a fanboy because you disagree with them.

[Kelegacy]

On the other front I do applaud you, because for the most part you're one of the only Sony fans (besides Borys) to actually submit positive Sony news. Everyone else just complains about the fact there's so much negative news...you and Borys actually do something about it. So Bravo.

But does it really matter? When positive Sony news DOES get reported, the thread quickly devolves into negativity at the platform. Free online play? BAD! And that's just one example.

If I see positive Sony news elsewhere, I read it. I have no reason to copy and paste it into a post for the front page because I know what will happen. I don't come here for positive Sony news, because even if there was an overabundance of it, there really would be none. It's a paradox.

[bapenguin]

But does it really matter? When positive Sony news DOES get reported, the thread quickly devolves into negativity at the platform. Free online play? BAD! And that's just one example.

If I see positive Sony news elsewhere, I read it. I have no reason to copy and paste it into a post for the front page because I know what will happen. I don't come here for positive Sony news, because even if there was an overabundance of it, there really would be none. It's a paradox.

Are you saying negative things aren't said in MS/Nintendo threads?

The simple fact is Sony is the least favored company here at the moment. That doesn't mean we shouldn't hear good things about them, or interesting things about games coming out for Sony related products.

[Reanimated]

Mr.Condescension, this is not meant as an attack on you but merely a generalization due to your Reverse fanboy post a few back.

While you may think you are a reverse "fanboy" and that you have no allegiance to a particular system from all of the news submitted by you and all of your posts you've done nothing but praise Sony. While you may comeoff and say you aren't a Sony fanboy, you are. You just aren't admitting it to us. Is that a big deal?

No, not at all. Everyone on this board likes one system more than another. It's human nature, it's favoritism, it's whatever you want to call it. We can't help it. Don't try to play the neutrality card and think it'll make a difference when people read your posts.

On the other front I do applaud you, because for the most part you're one of the only Sony fans (besides Borys) to actually submit positive Sony news. Everyone else just complains about the fact there's so much negative news...you and Borys actually do something about it. So Bravo.




*applause*


Also, I don't know why everyone calls me an MS schill when I do just as much whoring for Nintendo as I do MS. :cool:

[51|RandoM]

Is Reanimated a viral marketing bot for Microsoft?


Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I suspect Sony did him grave personal injury at some point, maybe by not releasing some sequel he really wanted.

[Reanimated]

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I suspect Sony did him grave personal injury at some point, maybe by not releasing some sequel he really wanted.




They made God of War 2 on the PS2 instead of PS3. Thusly, I have absolutely no use for the PS3. ;)

[Kamalot]

I personally recommended that people hold off on their purchase until late 2007 for MGS or late 2008 for FF XIII and hoping that there will then be a price drop.
This is the most sensible approach for the PS3. I've stated on several occasions what it would take me to get a PS3.

Final Fantasy XIII launches in the USA.
Reviews come out and the games rocks the socks off of baby Buddha.
The PS3 comes out with a MAJOR price drop between now and then.
*sold!* Sony just sold a PS3 to Kamalot.
At that time, I'll be able to go through and pick up the few exclusives from the bargain bin and try them out too. If the above does not happen, I am positive that Wii and the 360 will keep me plenty busy with awesome games.

[Kamalot]

I feel like Nintendo is no longer trying to make the types of games I want to play and are instead trying to make games for people who don't like games. I don't ascribe to the notion that our controllers are too difficult to use or that games can't look good and be fun as well. If I'm going to spend money on a next gen console to hook up to my new HDTV it's going to have to have really good looking games, not games that look a little better than xbox games. I view the Wii as a peripheral for the gamecube and I already own a gamecube. Your mileage may vary.So, games have to be in HDTV to be fun? That is what you said. How does that jive with what you said in another forum?
You may be right. That seems to be the direction Wii is headed. I'm cool with smaller games if they are fun.

Fun FTW!
Now that is a sentiment I can agree with. I'm cool with any size game if it's fun. I like large and small games myself, so I'll make sure to get the system(s) that can play both well, whichever those turn out to be.
I'm not the only one here who is confused with you many contradictory statements.

[torrefaction]

This is the most sensible approach for the PS3. I've stated on several occasions what it would take me to get a PS3.

Final Fantasy XIII launches in the USA.
Reviews come out and the games rocks the socks off of baby Buddha.
The PS3 comes out with a MAJOR price drop between now and then.
*sold!* Sony just sold a PS3 to Kamalot.
At that time, I'll be able to go through and pick up the few exclusives from the bargain bin and try them out too. If the above does not happen, I am positive that Wii and the 360 will keep me plenty busy with awesome games.

Haha...These are exactly my thoughts. *BUT* this AND MGS4 need to be mind blowingly amazing. Othewise I'm out.

[thenefariousone]

While I understand you are looking forward to buy a ps3 to use all of it's abilities, you have to realize that that very fact (plus your computer background) means you are not a member of the large majority of people who buy game consoles.

The large majority of people out there are not technically inclined. In one went into their living rooms, you'd see at least one or two of the following situations:
(a) they have vcrs
(b) don't set the time on vcrs
(c) they have a non hdtv.
(d) they only recently purchased a dvd player

While the people you surround yourself and the opinions of those on various internet sites may echo yours, these opinions are not the majority of ps2 and video game console owners. No one on this website is.

There are a large number of people out there will:
(a) never connect their console (xbox360, ps3, or wii) to the internet.
(b) never use a video game console to play movies.
(c) think that video games are only for kids, despite what the facts really are
(d) buy video game consoles to play on 10 year old tvs in their kids rooms or in the basement.
(e) don't want the only big screen tv in the house tied up with game consoles.
(f) just recently got into dvds and are quite happy with how cheap dvd movies are.
(g) just recently got into dvds and are quite happy with how dvd movies look on their existing tvs, and don't want to spend $1000 or more on a decent new hdtv and new media player just to watch movies.
(h) don't even know what bluray or hd-dvd are.
(i) are avoiding bluray and hd-dvd formats, because they remember the vhs/beta max price wars.
(j) have seen improperly set up hd-tvs at their local audio-video stores and can't see what the big deal is at all.
(k) buy a console simply because they were told to get one for someone's birthday, without ever reading a single word on the box.
(l) don't buy expansion devices or peripherials for consoles.

Those are the majority of people who make up the current ~150 million user home console market. They don't know or don't care about bluray or hd-dvd. They don't have a clue what Xbox live is. Or what the Nintendo wii was first called. That's mass market for ya.

You may not agree with Steve, but he's spent years in the industry making games, and marketing games. You and I may be speaking from personal opinons, but he's speaking from a position of experience. He's worked on all kinds of games for all kinds of platforms. He consults for companies on it. It's his job to know this stuff.


Who knows how hard it will be, but here is the article relating a famitsu interview with Izumi Kawanishi, SCE's Software Platform Manager:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710286p1.html



So, it's in the works as something you could do with an add-on TV tuner from another company. How will the implementation work and will it be simple or hard? We'll see. I'm not worried about technical obstacles, but computers are my line of work, so take that for what it's worth.

I mentioned it as one example Sony has already put forth as a possible use for the PS3, but that's without mentioning Blu-ray movie playback. If you think no one wants to use the PS3 to play blu-ray movies you've probably missed the actual PS3 posts in between the trolls where people say they are interested in blu-ray movies on the PS3.

The quote "the ps3 being anything more than a game console is hype" from Steve is pretty asinine, I'm sorry to say. Maybe for people who only want a gaming console, but there are alot of people who are interested in other features of the PS3. To assume no one is interested in its other features and that it's just insubstantial "hype" is a very self-centered point of view. Perhaps that he is an "industry insider" makes his view on that particular topic rather moot, since it's the people that aren't industry insiders that will want the non-gaming features.

I will go one step further and posit that the people who read EvAv are not exactly a representative sample of people who will be buying the PS3 for either gaming, blu-ray playback, as a DVR, instead of a Media Center PC, or a combination of multiple reasons. How in the hell would we know?

[Kelegacy]

Are you saying negative things aren't said in MS/Nintendo threads?

The simple fact is Sony is the least favored company here at the moment. That doesn't mean we shouldn't hear good things about them, or interesting things about games coming out for Sony related products.
Negative things are said about all three companies, and many complaints are warranted. But any sort of front page Sony thread seems to get derailed with Reanimated's .gifs and Kamalot's preaching. There is a much higher failure rate of any Sony newspost than the other two companies, probably combined. It doesn't help when posters or mods use the hated italiced commentary to stir up the nest before the discussion can begin. However, this isn't one of those instances.

This has been said for years. It's a "deal with it" type of dilemma that's not going to change. *shrug*

No, I'm not a Sony fanboy, just a gamer. That's why I own all the systems available right now, with the exception of the PSP. But my tiring of the Sony ridicule makes me appear that way. Oh well, so be it.

[Siraris]

Not to sound like a MS fanboy, but the 360 is the only console officially expected to incorporate Tivo (and additional DVR abilities). Microsoft recently made a deal with Tivo to extend their DVR functions to all MS platforms.

So I guess the 360 is more than 'just a console' as well? :)

I don't think that's correct. First, the PSX is a DVR, so it's not the only console expected to incorporate DVR. Second of all, it has been said since the PS3 was announced that it would have DVR functionality.

And I would agree that the 360 is more than just a console, it's a computer, just like the PS3 and the Wii :).

[bapenguin]

This has been said for years. It's a "deal with it" type of dilemma that's not going to change. *shrug*

Eh...I'm not so sure. I remember when everyone thought this site was completely anti-Nintendo. Sony just kinda sat on that middle ground where nobody cared either way.

There's an ebb and flow to everything.

Of course whatever system is your favorite system you tend to see to defend the negative more than the systems you don't care about as much.

[Kamalot]

Eh...I'm not so sure. I remember when everyone thought this site was completely anti-Nintendo. Sony just kinda sat on that middle ground where nobody cared either way.

There's an ebb and flow to everything.

Of course whatever system is your favorite system you tend to see to defend the negative more than the systems you don't care about as much.When I first visited EvilAvatar years ago, It was staunchly Anti-Nintendo. Since then Nintendo has convinced me that they aren't for 'teh kiddies' and the DS has become my favorite system. Things change. Perhaps this is due to things that Nintendo has done or perhaps it is due to the failings and missteps of other companies.

As humans, we have the ability to constantly reevaluate the world around us and reform our decisions. Many who thought Nintendo focused solely on kids, myself included, have come to realize that Nintendo focuses on fun for a wide range of people. Much in the same light, people have come to realize things about Sony too, although the revelations haven't been as positive for Sony as a whole.

Another thing to note is that, since I've been visiting Evil Avatar, Microsoft has proved that can make a real, ass-kicking console instead of a crappy, kludge PC in an ugly, black box.

My, how things can change.

Edit: If the Internet was as prevelant at the launch of the N64, you'd see the same kind of mindshift taking place. Nintendo was late to market with the 64, fighting against the PS1 and Saturn. People starting pooping all over Nintendo, and rightfully so.

If we didn't evaluate the field in front of us each generation, and only purchased our next console based on the previous console the Sega Dreamcast would still be alive today and Sony would be nowhere in sight. Isn't change a wonderful thing?

[thecrazyd]

If we didn't evaluate the field in front of us each generation, and only purchased our next console based on the previous console the Sega Dreamcast would still be alive today and Sony would be nowhere in sight. Isn't change a wonderful thing?
I am pretty sure that is backwards. If people judged the Dreamcast based on the Saturn, it would have failed even worse. Also, if people judged the PS2 by the PS (which they did) it would have been a monumental success (which it was). Maybe I am entirely missing your point here.

[Mr.Condescension]

So, games have to be in HDTV to be fun? That is what you said. How does that jive with what you said in another forum?

I did not say they had to be in HDTV to be fun. I said I have a standard graphical bar that will be met, and when I have my HDTV to go with my 360 and PS3 I will want the option of using it. Have you run 480i(p) content on a 1080p set? It doesn't look all that great.

I'm not the only one here who is confused with you many contradictory statements.

I said "Now that is a sentiment I can agree with. I'm cool with any size game if it's fun. I like large and small games myself, so I'll make sure to get the system(s) that can play both well, whichever those turn out to be." If you bother to read it again you'll see I like large and small games and that I'll get the system(s) that can play both well. Guess which systems those are? I have not contradicted myself one bit.

[Zanzibar]

I am pretty sure that is backwards. If people judged the Dreamcast based on the Saturn, it would have failed even worse. Also, if people judged the PS2 by the PS (which they did) it would have been a monumental success (which it was). Maybe I am entirely missing your point here.

Heh, I think Kamalot forgot about the Saturn and was thinking about the Genesis. I admire that; it's probably better for all of our collective mental health to forget the Saturn ever existed.

I have numerous reasons to hate Sony, which have been well-documented here - even to the point where I got a PM from a Sony rep who wanted to know specifically why I had such a hard time with the Sony developer-relations people. At least they took an interest, but I don't think my feedback made an iota of difference for the PS3.

[Mr.Condescension]

Those are the majority of people who make up the current ~150 million user home console market. They don't know or don't care about bluray or hd-dvd. They don't have a clue what Xbox live is. Or what the Nintendo wii was first called. That's mass market for ya.


I agreed with some of your generalizations, but this statement here is where the whole problem in your argument lies: "the current ~150 million user home console market".

People who are not a part of that current gaming market will want the PS3 because it's a cheap blu-ray player. I already know several people interested in it, and they aren't hard-core gamers or in the computer industry. They're members of the 25% of people who currently already have an HDTV. (I think that's the current figure....anyone have a link?) If you don't think Sony is going to market the hell out of the blu-ray in the PS3 to get those other people who have HDTVs you've gone loony.

[bapenguin]

People who are not a part of that current gaming market will want the PS3 because it's a cheap blu-ray player. I already know several people interested in it, and they aren't hard-core gamers or in the computer industry. They're members of the 25% of people who currently already have an HDTV. (I think that's the current figure....anyone have a link?) If you don't think Sony is going to market the hell out of the blu-ray in the PS3 to get those other people who have HDTVs you've gone loony.

Somewhat of a side note here. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have done a HORRIBLE job of marketing their product. The only news/ads/etc you've seen on this stuff is the negative news regarding their inability to play nice together.

When the PS3 hits...90% of the PS2 owners aren't going to have the slightest inkling of a doubt what the hell blu-ray even is.

[Mr.Condescension]

Mr.Condescension, this is not meant as an attack on you but merely a generalization due to your Reverse fanboy post a few back.

While you may think you are a reverse "fanboy" and that you have no allegiance to a particular system from all of the news submitted by you and all of your posts you've done nothing but praise Sony. While you may comeoff and say you aren't a Sony fanboy, you are. You just aren't admitting it to us. Is that a big deal?

It's a bit of a big deal, though. Kelegacy is basically saying the same thing I am. As I stated before in my "reverse fanboy" post, I am interested in the PS3 right now because I've already decided to acquire the 360 and buy games for it and I'm not so much interested in the Wii. Is that automatically being a fanboy? Being interested in something because you've already made your mind on another in a positive way?

What you're saying is that you disagree with my take on reverse fanboyism. That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I defend the PS3 at this point in time, and post good news posts about it, because most everyone else seems afraid of the MS crew.

In closing, it's a little like having two brothers, MichaelSon and Simon. MichaelSon is doing well at school and Simon is getting picked on. Now you're saying that if I defend Simon I'm playing favorites, but in reality I'm not playing favorites at all because little MichaelSon doesn't need defending because no one is bullying him.

[Mr.Condescension]

Somewhat of a side note here. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have done a HORRIBLE job of marketing their product. The only news/ads/etc you've seen on this stuff is the negative news regarding their inability to play nice together.

When the PS3 hits...90% of the PS2 owners aren't going to have the slightest inkling of a doubt what the hell blu-ray even is.

Well, advertising blu-ray when it isn't available until August would be a little strange, plus with the amount of units being shipped, it wouldn't even be worth it until the PS3 was prepping, would it? The HD-DVD players are flying off the shelves as it is.

I personally expect there to be a marketing blitz in a few months prior to PS3 release by all 3 companies, and that there will be ads for blu-ray and for the PS3's blu-ray drive. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it makes good business sense not to.

[Kamalot]

I am pretty sure that is backwards. If people judged the Dreamcast based on the Saturn, it would have failed even worse. Also, if people judged the PS2 by the PS (which they did) it would have been a monumental success (which it was). Maybe I am entirely missing your point here.No, you got it, but go back even further, back to the Genesis. Not the best analogy for wat I was trying to say...

I'm saying that we have the ability to re-evaluate our situation. We shouldn't blindly follow a particular company just because they did something we like in the past. We need to look at the future. Nintendo is turning around quickly, showing a great selection of games for the affordable DS. They made a fan out of me with the affordable and crazy-fun Nintendo DS. That could change if they screw up: overcharge for fragile hardware, try and force more expensive and untested technologies on me, or use their game division to shoe-horn other non-game media into my life. It could happen, and I would roast them for screwing with my games and beeing greedy.

Market leaders come and go because of two reasons.

1) They do the right thing. Companies can make great products, charge reasonable prices for them and back it up with great advertising and support.

2) Competition screws up. The competition can trip and fall, loosing sight of what the prize is and giving up the leadership position on their own.

Usually, just one or the other isn't enough to usurp the market leader. In order for a total upset to happen, both need to come true. It has happened in the past. People with loyalties to one company defected when another product came along that offered a better value with better/more games.

Now don't misconstrue what I am saying as pro-Nintendo. Sure, at this point in time Nintendo appears to be focused clearly on the gamer with an eye to expanding what it means to be a gamer. This focus is, you guessed it, good for gamers. Nintendo hasn't always made the best decisions in the past and we, as gamers, should keep their eye on them.

Reward gaming companies by buying fun, affordable products and you'll get more fun, affordable products in the marketplace.

Punish gaming companies that focus on things other than gaming by not buying their crap. Punish crappy games by not buying them and telling people to avoid total crap.

If we do this, the gaming companies will learn. They will make better games and gaming products focused on fun, not on special effects and hype.

I am pro-consumer and pro-gamer.

[Jack B]

Here's the thing that I think a lot of fanboyism really misses: that the consoles - all three of them - are incredible machines.

They just serve different purposes. For me - I know I'm getting myself a Wii. This is largely because I just can't afford the other consoles. But that's OK, I'm not Sony's target market.

The PS3 is going to be a fantastic and beautiful machine, (the 360 is also pretty slick) - and they'll each have a few flagship games that won't cross over (Final Fantasy and Halo come to mind).

Sony's gotten a lot of bad press because of their price, and because it's looked like they've been copying features from other consoles. My guess is they've just been playing it closer to the chest because they don't want people to know how much more the ps3 is going to be than "just a console."

The price is fine - just realize you're not buying a console anymore.

Jasonp107,

I agree. Real game lovers can easily find something to appreciate in all the consoles. I know I do. I have a 360 and will likely get a Wii. I definitely want a PS3, I'm just going to have to wait and see how compelling the games are this fall. More likely late next Spring as I won't pre-order, since I'm not will to risk it, until I see some real content.

If it's good, then I'll likely buy a PS3 by next E3. If everyone owned each console, we'd see fewer fanboys, but most can't afford it, so there experience with the competing console is based upon rumor, speculation and bulletin boards instead of actual use.

[Kelegacy]

I am pro-consumer and pro-gamer.
So, if you are in the market for a High Defintion film player AND a next gen game machine, you're saying that the PS3 would be very beneficial to the consumer since it's basically a deal and a half compared to the high cost of stand alone players. Plus, with an immediate back catalog of 1500 games, the PS3 is an amalgam of gaming bliss from the onset.

In that sense, the consumer wins by saving tons of dinero on a BR player AND getting a next-gen console to boot. Is that pro-consumer?

I'm in the market for neither, but I'm just saying.

[bean19]

Kelegacy - Isn't it understandable that people who do not care about high-definition film players feel that the console is ridiculously expensive?

[Mr.Condescension]

Kelegacy - Isn't it understandable that people who do not care about high-definition film players feel that the console is ridiculously expensive?

Yes. It is perfectly understandable for them to feel that way. It is not perfectly understandable to not realize that other people don't feel that way.

It is also perfectly understandable for someone to feel that $400 is ridiculously expensive for a gaming console in general. It is also perfectly reasonable to feel that $250 is rediculously expensive for a game system. There's a reason why PS2s still sell so damn well. Just because one thinks buying an expensive sports car is a waste of money doesn't mean the person who doesn't think it's too expensive is an idiot. Value is completely subjective.

[Kelegacy]

Kelegacy - Isn't it understandable that people who do not care about high-definition film players feel that the console is ridiculously expensive?
Yes, it is. That's why I'm not buying one. It's too outlandishly expensive. But I'm just wondering what someone's idea of pro-consumer is.

If the price of the PS3 was 399, I wouldn't buy one. Why? Because I think consoles priced that high are too expensive and not worth a purchase before a great library is amassed. I did cave and buy a 360 for Oblivion, something I normally wouldn't do. I'm a sucker for sandbox RPGs, and figured it would be cheaper than upgrading my PC.

I wouldn't do it again, not for any one game. I unplugged my 360 the other day because I figured it would save me pennies on unused electricity. As most people here have heard me complain in other threads, it hasn't been used in a very long time because I haven't been happy with the library. I'm not making that mistake with the PS3, and the 200 dollar premium only cements that more so.

[bapenguin]

Well, advertising blu-ray when it isn't available until August would be a little strange, plus with the amount of units being shipped, it wouldn't even be worth it until the PS3 was prepping, would it? The HD-DVD players are flying off the shelves as it is.

I personally expect there to be a marketing blitz in a few months prior to PS3 release by all 3 companies, and that there will be ads for blu-ray and for the PS3's blu-ray drive. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it makes good business sense not to.

You need to educate the consumer though about your product. Generate some sort of prehype. I mean hell...HD-DVD has been out for what, 2 months? I bet if you walk down the street and ask 100 people what HD-DVD is, 99 wouldn't know.

[Mr.Condescension]

You need to educate the consumer though about your product. Generate some sort of prehype. I mean hell...HD-DVD has been out for what, 2 months? I bet if you walk down the street and ask 100 people what HD-DVD is, 99 wouldn't know.

I agree, which makes me wonder why Toshiba isn't doing any marketing for HD-DVD either. Aren't they squandering their lead time? The only advertisement I've seen for HD-DVD or Blu-ray is for Underworld Evolution "coming soon" on blu-ray.

[bean19]

Mr. Conde - Right. . . I'm not a fanboy that needs the sermon, I was asking where Kel was going with his comments. His response was that he was explaining how Sony could be seen as pro-consumer.

Kel - Gotcha. I didn't make the connection because I've been following this thread only intermittently. Thanks.

[Mr.Condescension]

Mr. Conde - Right. . . I'm not a fanboy that needs the sermon, I was asking where Kel was going with his comments.

Apologies for the preaching. Hard to tell intent sometimes.

[Kamalot]

So, if you are in the market for a High Defintion film player AND a next gen game machine, you're saying that the PS3 would be very beneficial to the consumer since it's basically a deal and a half compared to the high cost of stand alone players.
Yes, it would be a bargain, if Bluray were an already established format.

That's the big kicker here. You are being sold something in the hopes that it becomes the next big thing. Take a look at Sony's track record for intorducing mass-media formats. They haven't been able to do it very well. Now they are sacrificing the Playstation to the media format gods.

I'll pay a lot of money for good products that do exceptional things, but I'm not buying $200 worth of some corporate whore pipe-dream of owning the next movie format.

Edit: Example of being pro-consumer - I own an Xbox 360. I play it frequently yet I don't tell anyone they should get one, even when they ask. I'll let people come over and play, but to decide for themself if the console is worth the price.

[Mr.Condescension]

Yes, it would be a bargain, if Bluray were an already established format.

That's the big kicker here. You are being sold something in the hopes that it becomes the next big thing. Take a look at Sony's track record for intorducing mass-media formats. They haven't been able to do it very well. Now they are sacrificing the Playstation to the media format gods.

I'll pay a lot of money for good products that do exceptional things, but I'm not buying $200 worth of some corporate whore pipe-dream of owning the next movie format.

Edit: Example of being pro-consumer - I own an Xbox 360. I play it frequently yet I don't tell anyone they should get one, even when they ask. I'll let people come over and play, but to decide for themself if the console is worth the price.

I'll wait and see if anyone else wants to reply to this before I do. Must....resist.........urge................

[Kamalot]

So, if you are in the market for a High Defintion film player AND a next gen game machine, you're saying that the PS3 would be very beneficial to the consumer since it's basically a deal and a half compared to the high cost of stand alone players.
I forgot that Microsoft has announced an HD-DVD player for the 360. If it is priced well, it could be cheaper to buy a 360 and an HD-DVD player than to buy a PS3. One also has to consider that the market of HDTV owners is filling up with Xbox 360's right now. This has the result of shrinking the potential market of people who want an HD movie player AND a next gen game machine. If the HD-DVD player comes out before the PS3 launches, the already small market of people looking for an HD movie player AND a next gen game machine will shrink due to the ability to purchase these items. This will reduce the PS3 potential customer base even more.

A reasonably priced HD-DVD player would be great for consumers who already have an Xbox 360, as their entry fee will be broken up into 2 payments. The first payment they already made when they purchased the Xbox 360. The second payment will be the nominal price of the HD-DVD player.

Now this assumes that Microsoft makes the smart business decision to launch the HD-DVD player so that it can be purchased together with the Xbox 360 and still be less expensive than the PS3. If Microsoft charges too much for the HD-DVD player, then picking up a PS3 would be a better choice for the market segment that requires both games and HD movie playback.

Of course, there are other factors. Do you have a large collection of old games you plan on playing often? If so, do you mind having an old console around to play your old games? etc.
:D

[Kamalot]

I'll wait and see if anyone else wants to reply to this before I do. Must....resist.........urge................
Nobody else is awake now. Go ahead. :)

[Mr.Condescension]

Ok, I'll bite...

That's the big kicker here. You are being sold something in the hopes that it becomes the next big thing. Take a look at Sony's track record for intorducing mass-media formats. They haven't been able to do it very well. Now they are sacrificing the Playstation to the media format gods.

You're not being sold something in the hopes that it will become the format winner. You're being sold something to guarantee that it will become the format winner. There are two main reasons why Blu-ray will become the format winner:

1) 128-bit encryption - One of the biggest reasons why betamax lost to VHS was because of studio support for VHS. As we all know, the MPAA and its member studios are quite rabid about piracy. HD-DVD uses the same encryption scheme as DVD (read: none). The studios know this, and that's why many more of the studios have signed on with Sony. In addition to that, the main HD-DVD proponent studios have almost universally signed on to also release blu-ray movies in addition to HD-DVD. There will not be the same problem with support for blu-ray as there was for HD-DVD for this reason. There will be a much larger library available for blu-ray solely because of its encryption.

2) PC Manufacturers - Alienware has already started selling laptops with blu-ray drives in them. Alienware is owned by Dell, who will follow suit soon. Dell is the largest PC manufacturer in the world and will be exclusively dealing in blu-ray, with the next top two offering either type of drive. People who get blu-ray drives in their laptops will obviously not be buying HD-DVD players. What sense does that make?

3) Sony Playstation 3 - The PS3 is going to sell. There's just no way around it. Everyone says so...analysts, media. That alone will turn the format war on its heels. An installed base of 4-6 million blu-ray players will win the format war outright, and Sony knows it. Production of the PS3 will cause the manufacturing costs of blu-ray to go down to HD-DVD levels, which will negate the 2nd problem Betamax had, which was price. The PS3 is Sony's trump card, and it would be stupid of them not to use it (from a pure business perspective).

What does this all mean? If you follow my logic (which I'm sure you don't and disagree with) then there's a problem in the logic that the PS3 is not worth buying because you're betting on blu-ray in an uncertain war. The PS3 is going to win Sony the war outright. It sucks for people who want HD-DVD to win the war, but it's business, and like it or not, it's really smart.


some corporate whore pipe-dream of owning the next movie format.

Bitter much? You take Sony's business strategy much too personally. I would wager you're mostly just bitter because you know it's going to work.


One also has to consider that the market of HDTV owners is filling up with Xbox 360's right now.

According to the most recent surveys, 25% of American households have HDTVs. We'll assume there are 350 million Americans and also use a very conservative estimate that the average household is 2 parents and 2.5 children (we all know 2 parents is not the average). That's
77 Million households in the US with HDTVs. MS has sold 5.1 million 360s worldwide. Assuming the US accounts for 2/3 that number and that 25% of those 360 users have HDTVs (we have no other number to work with) that's a grand total of 0.85 million people bought the Xbox 360 and have HDTVs. Of course these numbers are all speculative, but I think I've erred on the side of caution for the most part.

Is .85 million Xbox 360 owners going to put any sizeable dent in the 77 million households with HDTV already? I don't think so.


Now this assumes that Microsoft makes the smart business decision to launch the HD-DVD player so that it can be purchased together with the Xbox 360 and still be less expensive than the PS3.

Which every analyst and reporter I've read has stated as being very, very, very unlikely. The reason being that Sony is taking a huge hit on the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 and Microsoft has no incentive to do so with the HD-DVD player.

[Siraris]

I forgot that Microsoft has announced an HD-DVD player for the 360. If it is priced well, it could be cheaper to buy a 360 and an HD-DVD player than to buy a PS3. One also has to consider that the market of HDTV owners is filling up with Xbox 360's right now. This has the result of shrinking the potential market of people who want an HD movie player AND a next gen game machine. If the HD-DVD player comes out before the PS3 launches, the already small market of people looking for an HD movie player AND a next gen game machine will shrink due to the ability to purchase these items. This will reduce the PS3 potential customer base even more.



360 = $399 + $150 for HD-DVD player + tax = $599. Add on Wifi adapter $99, bigger HDD $50-$100, LIVE Gold membership, $59.99, so you're almost at $900 for the equivelant of what the PS3 gives you. You are missing out on a more powerful processor in the PS3, a backlog of over 1500 games, and a motion sensing controller.

As Condescension pointed out, there have been 5 million 360's sold worldwide. I don't think that is a very strong market penetration. We'll see how many they have sold next year, that will be more telling. If we look at peripherals for games in the past, almost every single one has failed, horribly.

[Jack B]

360 = $399 + $150 for HD-DVD player + tax = $599. Add on Wifi adapter $99, bigger HDD $50-$100, LIVE Gold membership, $59.99, so you're almost at $900 for the equivelant of what the PS3 gives you. You are missing out on a more powerful processor in the PS3, a backlog of over 1500 games, and a motion sensing controller.

As Condescension pointed out, there have been 5 million 360's sold worldwide. I don't think that is a very strong market penetration. We'll see how many they have sold next year, that will be more telling. If we look at peripherals for games in the past, almost every single one has failed, horribly.

Siraris,

Why do you have to pump up your numbers with stupid comments like "for the equivilant of what the PS3 gives you.".

You lose credibility. Your argument should stand by itself without the exaggeration in adding up the prices.

Tax? Why don't you add the cost of gas to travel to the store to buy a 360?

$100 for a Wi-Fi adapter? You know damn well it's only $100 if you buy the Microsoft branded adapter. I already owned a Linksys so, it was zero for me and you have many choices at $30, not $100.

$59.95 for a Live membership. This has been discussed 100 times on this board. Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free. Additionally, it's not $59.95. It's $49.95 for 13 months or about $4 a month.

Lastly, how the fuck do you add up all your inflated numbers and get to almost $900?

I hate discussing anything with you, because of crap like this. Additionally, you've never said yet, "oh, my mistake". You'll twist this around and say, "See, you're agreeing with me..." with some logic out of left field.

Quit making up ridiculous shit and you'll come across as rational and not a fan boy.

[Mr.Condescension]

Why do you have to pump up your numbers with stupid comments like "for the equivilant of what the PS3 gives you."...

Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free. Additionally, it's not $59.95. It's $49.95 for 13 months or about $4 a month.

I agree that adding up the prices and coming to an astronomical level is pointless. You can do something very similar without inflating anything or including live and find a similar dollar amount, but that's pretty obvious considering both companies are taking a loss on hardware. Also I'll add that it's impossible to compare the 360 and PS3 in an apples to apples comparison even with the HD-DVD drive due to HDMI not being possible on the 360 at this point (not to mention that the libraries are, and will forever be, vastly different).

The only point I'll disagree with is "Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free." By all accounts they are saying that is exactly what they are going to do. They state that messaging, friends lists, player profiles and match-making will be free. Aside from achievements, I don't know what else Microsoft offers for their Gold service.

[Jack B]

Originally posted by Condescension
According to the most recent surveys, 25% of American households have HDTVs. We'll assume there are 350 million Americans and also use a very conservative estimate that the average household is 2 parents and 2.5 children (we all know 2 parents is not the average). That's
77 Million households in the US with HDTVs.

Mr. Condescension,

I believe Blu-Ray has the best shot of winning the format war, but it's not over 'til it's over.

Your numbers above seem to be far off. Here is a link to a recent article quoting two different sources:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6283333.html?display=Breaking+News


"At the end of 2004, there were 11 million HD households, each owning an average of 1.2 HD sets,” Kagan Research associate Patrick Johnson said in a prepared statement.

Nielsen Media Research pegged the number of U.S. TV households for the 2005-06 season at 110.2 million.

Elsewhere in its “The State of High Definition Television 2006” report, Kagan estimated that 9.1 million HD sets will be sold to consumers this year, compared with 3.4 million and 5.6 million bought in 2003 and 2004, respectively.

It appears closer 15-20 million households with HDTV. Nielson estimates only 110 million households, so we're 4-6 years away from 70 million households with HDTV's.

Additionally, Sony and others have stated possibly there biggest competitor is digital movie distribution, which is gaining momentum.

I use it for HD movies now. It's a race against time for disk based formats. It's too early to declare a winner be it Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, Digital Delivery or none of the above.

Many people may resist buying HD disk based media even once they own an HDTV. I have about 10 HDTV channels and an HD-DVR. I can record many HD broadcasts every month without investing in a new DVD player.

Something to think about.

[Jack B]

The only point I'll disagree with is "Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free." By all accounts they are saying that is exactly what they are going to do. They state that messaging, friends lists, player profiles and match-making will be free. Aside from achievements, I don't know what else Microsoft offers for their Gold service.

Mr. Condescension,

I expect more objective critical thinking from you.

Microsoft has spent 4 years building and extending the Live service. In many ways it is their killer app.

To believe Sony's marketing slides is asking a lot. Sony's slides show it as being somewhere between Silver (free) and Gold ($49 a year). However, I could make up slides like that in 30 minutes. So far, that's all anyone has seen is a PowerPoint slide...

It's like saying a Ford Fiesta and a BMW are the same, because they both have 4 wheels and and engine. Once you actually see the cars, you'll realize there is a big difference.

Why would you believe Sony, who is not a software company can duplicate Live on their 1st attempt? I hear that from PS2 owners, who've never used 360 Live, but very rarely from any PS2 owners who've purchased a 360 and used Live. Live is very impressive for a console.

Anyway, since Sony had absolutely zero to show at E3, we can't say it isn't equivilant for sure, but my guess is it will be a far cry from 360 Live.

We'll see in November or sooner when Sony actually demonstrates something.

[Mr.Condescension]

Mr. Condescension,

I believe Blu-Ray has the best shot of winning the format war, but it's not over 'til it's over.

Your numbers above seem to be far off. Here is a link to a recent article quoting two different sources:


Thank you for finding better numbers to work with. Even with revised numbers for the total number of households with HD sets you will find that the relatively small sales of the Xbox 360 are not exactly making a dent in the prospective blu-ray market. Taking the 5.1 mil 360s sold and using the revised 10% you provided for households with HDTVs, we still only get a .51 million unit market penetration for HD-DVD from the 360. That's not going to make it so that nobody is going to want a PS3 or a blu-ray player for movies.

Digital movie distribution is going to have difficulty taking traction for many years, analysts say, because of the bandwidth required. We just don't have enough to accomodate everyone at this point. Also, don't ever count out resistance to change. People like going to blockbuster or their local rental shop to pick out movies. (and there's netflix to take into consideration as well). How many people actually use their "on demand" cable? I'd wager it's a very small percentage.

As for blu-ray winning over HD-DVD....anything is possible as you say, but I honestly can't see HD-DVD winning without some radical news we don't expect coming our way.

[Kamalot]

The only point I'll disagree with is "Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free." By all accounts they are saying that is exactly what they are going to do.You must be desperate for an argument if your only response is, "Well, Sony said so!"

You know damned well that Sony continues to prove they have no qualms about lying out their ass to get you to buy their products.

[Kefkataran]

This has been discussed 100 times on this board. Sony is not giving you an equivilant servce for free.

Really? Last I hear we have no idea since they haven't said much about their online service.

Both sides here are making shit up.

[Jack B]

Really? Last I hear we have no idea since they haven't said much about their online service.

Both sides here are making shit up.

We do have Sony's bullet points of feature set for their online service , which falls between Silver (free) and Gold (not free), so we already know it won't be "equivilent".

I don't know why on this board, that would still need to be discussed. Whether Sony can deliver their stated "in between" service for free is the question.

I'm tired of people stating Sony is making an "equivilant" service. Compare their bullet points. Even Sony isn't promising and equivilant service, so why are their fans???? :mad:

[Kefkataran]

We do have Sony's bullet points of feature set for their online service , which falls between Silver (free) and Gold (not free), so we already know it won't be "equivilent".

I must have missed this. Link? And are you tired of people saying it's an "equivilent" service because they're spelling it wrong? Me too. :p

[Jack B]

I must have missed this. Link? And are you tired of people saying it's an "equivilent" service because they're spelling it wrong? Me too. :p

Since you are a perfect spelling is perfect, I'll be watching you in the future. :) Grammer too. I'm not claiming superiority in either.... :D

If I spent my time correcting spelling and grammer on this site, we'd barely have room for discussion. Enjoy.

You can do the work to prove Sony's service is equal. I believe I spelled equal correctly. Knock yourself out.

Typical Sony is to be very vague and high level in describing what they'll deliver. Then as we get closer to actual launch they will remove promised features, IMO. It's happened so many times before, I'm amazed when people quote a Sony promise to deliver.

Go ahead find a URL from Sony, that "clearly" lists Sony's promised functionality. They didn't demonstrate anything at E3. Like I said, knock yourself out.

Here are the 360 features from Microsoft.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/

Silver Level (free)

Create your gamer profile
Create and maintain a friends list
Access Xbox Live Marketplace including Xbox Live Arcade, demos, and trailers
Send and receive text and voice messages
Join in special Xbox Live Gold trial opportunities
Access massively multiplayer games

Gold ($4 a month)

Great online multiplayer gameplay
Exclusive Xbox Live Marketplace downloads and content
Revolutionary TrueSkill™ matchmaking
Enhanced gamer feedback
Enhanced friends list
management

[Kefkataran]

Since you are a perfect spelling is perfect, I'll be watching you in the future. Grammer too. I'm not claiming superiority in either....

I'm an English major -- it's my job AND the law.

You can do the work to prove Sony's service is equal. I believe I spelled equal correctly. Knock yourself out.

Typical Sony is to be very vague and high level in describing what they'll deliver. Then as we get closer to actual launch they will remove promised features, IMO. It's happened so many times before, I'm amazed when people quote a Sony promise to deliver.

Go ahead find a URL from Sony, that "clearly" lists Sony's promised functionality. They didn't demonstrate anything at E3. Like I said, knock yourself out.

What? What I was asking is proof that Sony's will be inferior. You said they'd had a bullet point list proving that they WOULDN'T have equal functionality compared to XBL Gold service, and I've never seen that. Now you're saying I need to look it up? This is confusing.

[Jack B]

I'm an English major -- it's my job AND the law.



What? What I was asking is proof that Sony's will be inferior. You said they'd had a bullet point list proving that they WOULDN'T have equal functionality compared to XBL Gold service, and I've never seen that. Now you're saying I need to look it up? This is confusing.

I didn't start this equivilant discussion. I responded to Siraris's claim the Sony Live service is "equivilant". You defended that claim as if it's a well known fact. I think it's Sony propaganda turned into Sony fan myth, but I could be wrong.

I did my part with a detailed online features list. Since you and Siraris are claiming "equivilant" features, then let's see you step up and support those claims.

I'll comment on your features list. I don't think you'll find a detailed features list from Sony. I've looked. I can't find it, so I'd feel very foolish trying to boast it's equivilant, if I took that position.

I'll reply when you've done you end of the legwork.

[Kamalot]

I have yet to see a list of everything the Sony network will do. To me, it feels like Sony pointed at Microsoft's booth during E3 and said, "You know that online they have on their console? Yeah? Well we gots that too, but ours has more music and its free cause of the advertisement model we talked about during GDC."

[Mr.Condescension]

Mr. Condescension,

I expect more objective critical thinking from you.


I'm thinking yesterday was a bit of an off day. :o

Based on your enumeration of the features of LIVE's Silver and Gold, it does so far seem like Sony is going for a mix of the two for free. Thank god part of that is match-making of some sort.

[Mr.Condescension]

You know damned well that Sony continues to prove they have no qualms about lying out their ass to get you to buy their products.

I like this quote:

"There won't be anything we won't say to people to try and convince them that our way is the way to go."
-- Bill Gates

:cool:

[Kamalot]

I like this quote:

"There won't be anything we won't say to people to try and convince them that our way is the way to go."
-- Bill Gates

:cool:Please feel free to keep a list of Xbox 360 statements by Microsoft and flag me when they come up false. I'm not saying that to be condescending, I seriously want to know.

[Kefkataran]

I didn't start this equivilant discussion. I responded to Siraris's claim the Sony Live service is "equivilant". You defended that claim as if it's a well known fact. I think it's Sony propaganda turned into Sony fan myth, but I could be wrong.

I did not. You responded saying he was WRONG as if it was fact and all I said was "Dude, I don't think that's fact -- we don't know anything yet." Then you said we do, and I demanded to know what. You're confusing as hell.


I'll comment on your features list. I don't think you'll find a detailed features list from Sony. I've looked. I can't find it, so I'd feel very foolish trying to boast it's equivilant, if I took that position.

That's what I'm saying! There is no features list, Sony hasn't said what's going to be there, so we can't say it either is or is not equivalent. Either way, we don't know

Please feel free to keep a list of Xbox 360 statements by Microsoft and flag me when they come up false. I'm not saying that to be condescending, I seriously want to know.

Can we start with backwards compatibility? :)

[Jack B]

I'm thinking yesterday was a bit of an off day. :o

Based on your enumeration of the features of LIVE's Silver and Gold, it does so far seem like Sony is going for a mix of the two for free. Thank god part of that is match-making of some sort.

I knew I could count on you! :)

Yeah, I'm glad to see match making too. Microsoft could definitely improve upon matchmaking. It's better than it was before, but I'd prefer to not only get funneled into rooms of similar players, but also have more games show me the reviews or rep I've given other players.

The way it stands now, you can give a bad rep to a player, but you may still end up in a game with them later. It happens when I don't want to select the suggested games at the top of the list, for reason's like

1. They aren't playing my favorite map or
2. Not enough people in the match for my tastes or
3. They aren't in a lobby and I'd have to wait to start my game.

So, I jump into a game that's number 8 on the list. In there is a known team killer... I'd like to see my previous rep given to them. At that point, I may leave the room or point it out to others...

I'd also like to see match making based upon other criteria, like age for instance. Use my age as another factor in scoring the match. This way, I have less 13 year olds on the top of my list and more 40 year olds...

This are the devil's in the details, that Sony could improve upon, but Sony may fall short of even matching, let alone improving upon.

I think non 360 Users really don't understand what has gone into the 4 years of evolution of the Live service. A bullet point is a bullet point to them. It's all the same.

It's not all the same. The devil is very much in the details. I hope Sony actually improves upon the 360's live service. Microsoft just did and update and there is a lot of room for improvement. We'll see what the nex update around Sony's launch looks like. I'm sure it will raise the bar once again.

When the PS3 has been out for 6 months and I'm using both Live services, I'll give a "hands on" review, but until then I'm guessing Sony will not match the 360 Live service. It's not that easy...

We'll see.

[Kefkataran]

When the PS3 has been out for 6 months and I'm using both Live services, I'll give a "hands on" review, but until then I'm guessing Sony will not match the 360 Live service. It's not that easy...

They've definitely got a LOT to live up to. Anyone who says otherwise is nuts.

[Jack B]

I did not. You responded saying he was WRONG as if it was fact and all I said was "Dude, I don't think that's fact -- we don't know anything yet." Then you said we do, and I demanded to know what. You're confusing as hell.



That's what I'm saying! There is no features list, Sony hasn't said what's going to be there, so we can't say it either is or is not equivalent. Either way, we don't know



Can we start with backwards compatibility? :)

OK, let's backup. I believe I see what you're saying. My mistake.

No one really knows... Is that correct? If so, I'd agree. Sony hasn't told us crap, so it's all conjecture.

Thus, I wouldn't think it's reasonable as Siraris claimed, that Sony will provide an equivilant service.

I would say IMO, that the odds are highly against it, but we won't know 'til it ships.

My bad, if you aren't backing Siraris' claim. I thought you were. I agree he could be correct, but he doesn't say, "IMO". He claims as if it were true and I hate that crap. He does it a lot on a lot of topics....

I fall into the Sony will underdeliver on Live camp. One quick example is Live Anywhere connectivity with PC's and Mobile. Sony has no answer for that... There are other issues, but I was going to wait for Siraris or you to defend the Sony bullet points.

I'm now wait for Siraris, but I think he's gone from this thread.

Here's an idea, since I'm likely not going to get anyone to give me detailed info on the Sony Online service as detailed info just doesn't exist....

I'll list the Microsoft Live features and then give examples of what Sony "could" do that would technically 'match' on a PowerPoint slide, but be very different.

Disclaimer - This is hypothetical and I'm not saying this is the way it will be, but Sony has just given high level bullet points on slides. Many Sony only fans haven't experienced 360 Live, so they don't know what they don't know.

360 Live users realize it does a lot and could do a lot more still. It's going to continue to get updates.

So with that said, here is the worst case scenario's for Sony to comply with their current Powerpoint slides, but offer something very different than what Microsoft is offering...

Here are the 360 features from Microsoft.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/

Silver Level (free)

Create your gamer profile
This Sony gamer profile could be consist of similar information, but not be visible unless you exited a game and got back to the PS3 dashboard... Example: You're in a game and you'd like to look at the gamercard for someone you're playing with, but can't. Maybe you'd need to enter their name after you exit the game and go to the dashboard to look them up in the Sony database.

Create and maintain a friends list
Similar to a friends list on a website. It only works in a specific game or not all games or you need to exit a game and go to the dashboard to view your friends.

Access Xbox Live Marketplace including Xbox Live Arcade, demos, and trailers
Arcade titles on the 360 are "restored" with HD and multiplayer support. Sony could just port single user games without leaderboards.

Send and receive text and voice messages
Maybe this only would work from the dashboard. No ingame notifications or friends online, text messages, voice messages etc. You have to keep exiting your game to check your messages.

Join in special Xbox Live Gold trial opportunities
If some publishers charge for online game play (even if Sony doesn't) then they might not chose to have free trial periods. Additionally, you'd have to consistently monitor which games were having a free trial and when, because unlike the unified Live service all publishers won't participate in the same way.
Access massively multiplayer games

Gold ($4 a month)

Great online multiplayer gameplay
Since every publisher decides how much online support they'll offer, some will likely not want to put online support in at all. Microsoft requries it for certification. Sony has indicated it's up to the publisher to do what they want.

Exclusive Xbox Live Marketplace downloads and content
Should be the same. Quantity and quality, who knows.

Revolutionary TrueSkill™ matchmaking
Since many publishers may do their own online thing, maybe the matchmaking will be ingame as opposed to the integrated TrueSkill system. Each game may not know you're history from other games, just the one you're currently in. Thus, matchmaking is game to game, not unified. If I mute someone or mark with a bad rep or list types of gamers I prefer, I may need to do that all over again in each separate publisher's game.

Enhanced gamer feedback
Who knows what Sony will keep track of and share with each publisher.

Enhanced friends list management
Maybe friends list in game are only for that game or not at all. The universal PS3 friends list only exists outside a game at the dashboard...

Other things -

Notifications
Maybe notifications only appear once you're at the dashboard, not in game. Not much fun tracking down friends if you have to exit your game...

Achievements
Achievements may not be required by publishers or not have a standard like the 360's 1,000 for full games and 200 for arcade.

So, Sony could do very little and still comply with their Powerpoints. They may actually improve upon the 360 Live service. Having watched it evolve over 4 years. There is a lot to it, that isn't apparent until you use it day to day.

I believe Sony will be fine on some of the features and others will be weak, which ones, I don't know.

I'm not confident Sony will launch with an equivalent service. Do I have proof? No, but that's my opinion.