Kutaragi: PS3 platform is made for "e-Distribution"

[Mr.Condescension]

Ken Kuturagi in PC Impress Watch magazine talks about the PS3 and its place in Sony's digital distribution plans: Courtesy of GameSpot.com (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152586.html). Of note, aside from the general news that Sony wants to sell PS3 users digital content is that he considers match-making for games to be included in the free "basic services".

Regarding the business aspect of the PS3's online components, Sony seems to be taking its cues from the PC. "You can't charge money for network matching and other basic services. These things are just taken for granted on the PC...On the PS3, basic services will be taken for granted while content will be the bread and butter of our business."

[Kelegacy]

It IS very PC-ish. I don't know if this is a good move for Sony, as they could have played it safe and got by on the success of their Playstation brand alone. Messing around with PC functionality will only alienate the console fanbase. By that I mean the people who know jack diddly about PC things such as specs, upgrading, etc. They just want to play games. That's why they bought a console.

Sigh. It's a Sony thread, so we'll see how quickly it takes to see the usual termites come out to chew away at this.

[Mr.Condescension]

It IS very PC-ish. I don't know if this is a good move for Sony, as they could have played it safe and got by on the success of their Playstation brand alone. Messing around with PC functionality will only alienate the console fanbase. By that I mean the people who know jack diddly about PC things such as specs, upgrading, etc. They just want to play games. That's why they bought a console.

Sigh. It's a Sony thread, so we'll see how quickly it takes to see the usual termites come out to chew away at this.

Thankfully Ken and Sony in general have been quite clear about future upgrades never impacting games...no matter when you buy a PS3 or what you upgrade the games will always be made for the specs of the $500 system with the 20 gig HDD. If they lost sight of that, then it would definitely be a huge mistake.

Aside from marketing concerns, I really don't see anything he says here as being bad news. Mostly it's good news....Sony won't be charging for their game services and will instead seek to subsidize their online presence through content downloads.

[Paranoia]

Sigh. It's a Sony thread, so we'll see how quickly it takes to see the usual termites come out to chew away at this.

Sony can do no wrong. Anyone else disagree with Sony must be termites.

[Morangie]

So when Ken, not the most.... reliable source of information says network matching, does he mean all the games will be free to play online as well, or will sony just match you up with other players and then let the publisher charge you? Do basic services mean you will get a free friends list but might have to pay a slight fee for sending messages to them like with text messages on a mobile phone?

I really do hope sony launch with an excellent, free online service because if it can compare to xbox live it will force microsoft to compete. But until I see some actual details and specifications on what the costs will be, sony online is vaporware.

[JudasGoat]

Sony can do no wrong. Anyone else disagree with Sony must be termites.

So you're saying there is something wrong with free matching and connectivity? :confused:

[Vanthar]

Sony can do no wrong. Anyone else disagree with Sony must be termites.

It's not even that Sony can't do wrong. It's just people go way off topic and all Sony threads turn into '$600 LOL YEAH RIGHT'. This thread I'm feeling more of the usual Live members coming on saying 'Yeah but no way it can be as good as Live'.

Anyways I think this is great news. It reaffirms that we'll be able to play on the ps3 service for free and not just chat. I don't think his estimates are right for the hard drive disappearing though.. that's still a long ways off. Once everyone is running T3 connections then maybe it's possible, but I think that's at least 5 years off.

[Draft]

He's basically saying get ready for more microtransactions. Or maybe he's not. It's fricken hard to tell because it's a damn translation, and I am not good at interpreting engrish.

[GunnyMo]

So you're saying there is something wrong with free matching and connectivity? :confused:

Hmmm, if it's anything like the PS2 version of "free matching and connectivity" then yes there will be something wrong with it. I still haven't seen them show what they are talking about. Right now it's nothing but theory foisted upon the public.

[RMan]

Messing around with PC functionality will only alienate the console fanbase. By that I mean the people who know jack diddly about PC things such as specs, upgrading, etc.
The article seems to be talking about electronic distribution, which is not confusing unless it's designed in a fragmented fashion (like PC stuff). Doesn't have to be any more confusing than your average cell phone, and people are handling that just fine (actually, has a better chance of being less confusing since you won't have so many phones and carriers).

[rainbowblack]

Sony can do no wrong. Anyone else disagree with Sony must be termites.

can sombody pass the french dressing?

[dimsumx]

So basically, Sony is creating...The Phantom.

Or at least what the Phantom wanted to be.

[Zanzibar]

So basically, Sony is creating...The Phantom.

Or at least what the Phantom wanted to be.

Ow.

That's GOTTA hurt.

[Mr.Condescension]

So basically, Sony is creating...The Phantom.

Or at least what the Phantom wanted to be.

I don't think The Phantom was going to try to sell you music, movies, television shows, minigames, music videos, etc. I mean, phantom wasn't going to actually have games you could buy in the store, was it? Basically, Sony is attempting to make it so that the people who do buy things from them online will pay for your $50 fee that Microsoft charges you. Will it work? Will it be as full featured? Will it be more fully featured that live? I have no idea.

[Kelegacy]

So basically, Sony is creating...The Phantom.

Or at least what the Phantom wanted to be.
No, the PSX. Not to be confused with the PS1. I sure hope it doesn't turn out like the ill-fated PSX, but I'm having trouble really looking forward to the PS3. And I'm a Playstation fan.

[RMan]

Or at least what the Phantom wanted to be.
Which is also what the 360, Wii, and every electronic content provider wants to be.

[Mason]

Hard to spin free matchmaking as a bad thing. I don't think anyone doubts that there will be a pay barrier and nicer features behind it, but for now let's all take Ken at his word. That way we can pretend to be really surprised if they underdeliver.

[Jack B]

:D Ken Kutaragi is Peter Sellers from "Being There". I don't even think he knows what's he's talking about half the time.

Does this make me a "termite"?

[dimsumx]

I don't think The Phantom was going to try to sell you music, movies, television shows, minigames, music videos, etc. I mean, phantom wasn't going to actually have games you could buy in the store, was it? Basically, Sony is attempting to make it so that the people who do buy things from them online will pay for your $50 fee that Microsoft charges you. Will it work? Will it be as full featured? Will it be more fully featured that live? I have no idea.

Along with having you download full games instead of going to Retail, I think the Phantom was supposed to play off the shelf boxed PC games as well, wasn't it?

[dimsumx]

Which is also what the 360, Wii, and every electronic content provider wants to be.

I'm not sure if that's completely accurate. While Billy Gates have said that the future of content is headed to a downloads only path, I don't think that can be said of the Xbox 360 or the Wii. It seems their HDDs are designed for smaller downloads like updates, demos, and mini-sized games such as Live Arcade and Virtual Console.

With a 60Gig HDD out the gates, you know Sony is already planning to take out the middleman that is Retail chains. Very much like what Phantom was planning.

[Kelegacy]

Sony can do no wrong. Anyone else disagree with Sony must be termites.
Not what I said, of course, but I was referring to the usual suspects. Sony CAN do wrong, and has. Some people just come into these threads with pocket's filled with mud, ready to sling it.

[Cha-Ka]

Some people just come into these threads with pocket's filled with mud, ready to sling it.

That's not mud. I'm just happy to see you! :eek:

[Chandler]

e-distribution is the future, Sony is going to clean up on indie software sold through their "publishing channel". No money wasted on middlemen. It's the best secret to selling games that seems to be only found by Savage1/2 and Half-life2.

[tombofsoldier]

Anyone with good photoshop skills, could you do one of Kutaragi doing a line of crack? Thanks.

[dimsumx]

Anyone with good photoshop skills, could you do one of Kutaragi doing a line of crack? Thanks.

...as if that needs to be faked. Can't you already tell that the man is on something already?

[zsears]

Can anyone define "basic services;" what exactly do you guys think is going to be free?

[bapenguin]

Is it just me, or does it seem like we keep getting tid bits of info here and tidbits there from these mysterious interviews Ken does with this publication and that publication. I mean...why don't they just come out with a damn fact sheet?

[Mr.Condescension]

Can anyone define "basic services;" what exactly do you guys think is going to be free?

According to Sony so far:

"messaging" - Kaz Hirai
"player profiles" - Kaz Hirai
"friends list" - Kaz Hirai
"network matching" - Ken Kutaragi

[Mr.Condescension]

Is it just me, or does it seem like we keep getting tid bits of info here and tidbits there from these mysterious interviews Ken does with this publication and that publication. I mean...why don't they just come out with a damn fact sheet?

I'm guessing they think that they should stay in the spotlight until launch.....no such thing as bad publicity, blah, blah, blah. I guess that most of his interviews don't go over so well doesn't seem to matter to them (or him at least). I do wish they'd have a more consistent message overall.

[RMan]

It seems their HDDs are designed for smaller downloads like updates, demos, and mini-sized games such as Live Arcade and Virtual Console.
Well, that’s only a matter of scope, and I really don’t think the PS3 will be pushing the idea of “replacing” retail either (I think this is more a PS4+ target). Eventually, yes, but games that are designed for retail DVD, much less Bluray, are way too large to effectively stream and store on even the 60G version, I doubt they want to tell people you can only buy about 10 games before it’s full. Eventually games will be developed smaller and will more effectively stream while playing, but through the PS3’s life I think you’ll mostly see movie delivery and the like getting more attention from Sony, and the games they sell online won’t be that much different than the 360 (their storage capacities aren’t dramatically different). Even if they do get that going well by the end of the PS3’s life, it still doesn’t change the fact that the only thing that makes the ideology between the 3 different is the size of the local storage (IOW, there is no difference in what they want, just what they can do with the current, stock hardware).

[Captain Awesome]

http://www.sonyplaystation3news.com/images/ps3-grill.jpg

[Shodan2020]

"e-distribution"? The last console that I heard was going this route was the Phantom... :)

[Vandenh]

Ken has no idea what PS3 actually is IMHO.

[Morratut]

Still waiting for concrete news and features Ken.

Still waiting...

:confused:

[bapenguin]

I'm guessing they think that they should stay in the spotlight until launch.....no such thing as bad publicity, blah, blah, blah. I guess that most of his interviews don't go over so well doesn't seem to matter to them (or him at least). I do wish they'd have a more consistent message overall.

Good point. By releasing little info here and little info there over a long period of time they keep the "hype" up. Still my overall impression from what I keep hearing is they are just winging it.

[GunnyMo]

Good point. By releasing little info here and little info there over a long period of time they keep the "hype" up. Still my overall impression from what I keep hearing is they are just winging it.


Winging it is a great way to put it. It really does seem like they are making it up as they go along. Especially since it looks they keep adding "features" after the other two console makers add those same "features".

[Reanimated]

http://www.sonyplaystation3news.com/images/ps3-grill.jpg



http://home.comcast.net/~kennedyl079/62.gif

[novicius]

Ken is what you'd call "unreliable." :p

Still, tens of millions of people (in the U.S. at least) are going to buy a PS3 because of the Playstation brand. They want Madden with a Dual Shake (heh), a host of other Playstation exclusives, the JDM RPG's, and a pretty solid guarantee of seeing most ported titles. The perception (and no doubt eventual reality) is that only the Playstation is going to give that to them.

Which, ultimately, we Xbox enthusiasts shouldn't worry about. As long as there's a few million Xbox owners using XBL and Marketplace, MS will keep pumping money into it for generations of consoles to come.

[bean19]

Crap is always free.

Of course, Microsoft's Xbox Live better get some more fucking servers and quit lagging like a little bitch or I'll totally not reknew. Very shitty to pay for a service that is not well supported. I should get 75MB downloads in under a minute just like I can get them on my PC, and 700+ MB game demos shouldn't take more than ten minutes.

Where is that money going if not toward having good servers.

/rant.

[Reanimated]

I don't believe for one second that Sony's version of Xbox Live Gold will be "free". But hey, if they can match everything that Live offers while making it totally free, then I say great. That's just going to save me 50 bucks a year when MS is forced to make Live free.

[Watership]

Crap is always free.

Of course, Microsoft's Xbox Live better get some more fucking servers and quit lagging like a little bitch or I'll totally not reknew. Very shitty to pay for a service that is not well supported. I should get 75MB downloads in under a minute just like I can get them on my PC, and 700+ MB game demos shouldn't take more than ten minutes.

Where is that money going if not toward having good servers.

/rant.

Do you really think Xbox downloads are slow? I've seen so many people complain about this, and when I download a 750 meg demo in 10 mins, I wonder what they're talking about.

[TrackZero]

Ken Kuturagi in PC Impress Watch magazine talks about the PS3 and its place in Sony's digital distribution plans: Courtesy of GameSpot.com (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152586.html). Of note, aside from the general news that Sony wants to sell PS3 users digital content is that he considers match-making for games to be included in the free "basic services".

It's all talk for now Sony. MS has already been handling the digital marketplace for some time now. Get with the program or shut up.

PS: Yes, this comes off as trollish, but it's the way things are, and I'm just so tired of Sony press releases and the constant promises (which in the past, they haven't lived up to).

[TrackZero]

Do you really think Xbox downloads are slow? I've seen so many people complain about this, and when I download a 750 meg demo in 10 mins, I wonder what they're talking about.

Exactly. People need to be talking to their ISPs if they're having slowness. My downloads pretty much max out at 500kbytes/sec on my DSL.

[Mr.Condescension]

As long as there's a few million Xbox owners using XBL and Marketplace, MS will keep pumping money into it for generations of consoles to come.

What on earth makes you assume that? For the past 5 years microsoft has lost money each and every month on their console business. They continue to do so this very moment. There is going to be a time when their investors demand they get in the black or close up the division, just like Sega.

[dimsumx]

Exactly. People need to be talking to their ISPs if they're having slowness. My downloads pretty much max out at 500kbytes/sec on my DSL.

That might not be the case, I have a 9MB line with Cox and get a little over a megabyte per second on my PC, but on Xbox live running through the same connection, it is dramatically slower. I really wish there was a speed indicator for downloads.

[mister_slim]

Winging it is a great way to put it. It really does seem like they are making it up as they go along. Especially since it looks they keep adding "features" after the other two console makers add those same "features".
Have you ever looked at the feature list for the PSX and the Japan-only PS2 network platform? It's a bit of a reality check.

[novicius]

What on earth makes you assume that? For the past 5 years microsoft has lost money each and every month on their console business. They continue to do so this very moment. There is going to be a time when their investors demand they get in the black or close up the division, just like Sega.
Heh, Sega didn't close up shop because their investors demanded it -- they flat ran out of money. MS isn't in danger of that nor are they going to give up the fight for the living room that easily. Give it another decade.

[Mr.Condescension]

Heh, Sega didn't close up shop because their investors demanded it -- they flat ran out of money. MS isn't in danger of that nor are they going to give up the fight for the living room that easily. Give it another decade.

I can't find a single article mentioning that Sega went chapter 11 or ran out of money. If you have one please link it up. The company, as far as I can find, stopped making consoles and decided to concentrate on games because its hardware wasn't getting enough market share to be profitable. That's what it says on wikipedia, at any rate.

As for Microsoft, it all depends on what their purpose is with the console business. If their purpose is to make money, they're going to have to figure out what they're doing wrong on that front or eventually they will close up shop. That's just business. If their purpose is one of marketing, and losing money every year on their gaming division is seen as beneficial to their business through generating good will (so people feel better about buying their other software), that's another story altogether. As it is, it's rather wishful thinking to assume that a company losing money on a product will continue producing it forever.

[GrinR]

LOL what can I say. Sony + Free = coco madness

You have to be an ultra naive kid to believe that Sony will provide anything at all worth having without charging through the ass for it. They never have, they never will. Premium prices for good shit - that's Sony's bag.

[Jasonp107]

As for Microsoft, it all depends on what their purpose is with the console business. If their purpose is to make money, they're going to have to figure out what they're doing wrong on that front or eventually they will close up shop

I don't think MS will worry about losing money on the console line very soon because what MS (and I'd argue Sony even more so) are doing is looking for a way to move to ridiculously profitable expansion/software/customizeability market into everyone's living room.

Microsoft is willing to fight a long way because I think they're eventual goal with the Xbox line is not necessarily to make a kick ass console - that's where I think Nintendo is going - I think Microsoft wants to put a device in the living room that is so useful and so prevalent that people will be forced to buy accesories for stereo, DVR, etc, that will inevitably be MS branded (for compatibility).

But that's just my guess.

[Mr.Condescension]

Microsoft is willing to fight a long way because I think they're eventual goal with the Xbox line is not necessarily to make a kick ass console - that's where I think Nintendo is going - I think Microsoft wants to put a device in the living room that is so useful and so prevalent that people will be forced to buy accesories for stereo, DVR, etc, that will inevitably be MS branded (for compatibility).

But that's just my guess.

Well color me confused then, because I can't for the life of me think of anything they'd be able to sell me (or even a product they'd try to sell me) that would go in my living room. MS makes software...they should continue making software imho.

[saran_js]

Well color me confused then, because I can't for the life of me think of anything they'd be able to sell me (or even a product they'd try to sell me) that would go in my living room. MS makes software...they should continue making software imho.

That's just it, what MS is doing is putting in a trojan horse in to your living room. The more people buy xbox360 which allows for media capability, the more likely other vendors who do make AV products will sign up with MS to produce products that will work with xbox360. You see, they are not only going after the enduser market, they are also going to charge licenses for vendors to plug in to their systems, because consumers are looking at that.
Screw the pooch both ways, if you ask me.
And you guys are bashing Sony for doing the same thing. Hypocrites, if you ask me.

[TrackZero]

That's just it, what MS is doing is putting in a trojan horse in to your living room. The more people buy xbox360 which allows for media capability, the more likely other vendors who do make AV products will sign up with MS to produce products that will work with xbox360. You see, they are not only going after the enduser market, they are also going to charge licenses for vendors to plug in to their systems, because consumers are looking at that.
Screw the pooch both ways, if you ask me.
And you guys are bashing Sony for doing the same thing. Hypocrites, if you ask me.

The difference is, thus far, aside from the backwards compatibility issue, MS has never made false promises about any of their console's delivery, while Sony does it out of habit. 'nuff said.

[Mr.Condescension]

The difference is, thus far, aside from the backwards compatibility issue, MS has never made false promises about any of their console's delivery, while Sony does it out of habit. 'nuff said.

Hi, Windows. Hi dropped features. Hi blatant lies about performance. Hi cancellations and delays. Hi Internet Explorer being removable from windows. Their track record is suddenly clean with a different product?

Please...

Find another thread to troll.

[saran_js]

Hi, Windows. Hi dropped features. Hi blatant lies about performance. Hi cancellations and delays. Hi Internet Explorer being removable from windows. Their track record is suddenly clean with a different product?

Please...

Find another thread to troll.

Oh wait, didn't Bill Gates recently bash Sir Howard Stringer about the PS3 delay ? And Sir Howard's comeback was that Billy lied about the launching of MS Windows Vista.

Talk about lying, go look in the mirror.

Edit : oops, I meant this for Trackzero's reply...

[Skizott]

Stuff

I like you.

You're bringing life back into EA, and now debate topics are more interesting.

kudos

[Mr.Condescension]

I like you.

You're bringing life back into EA, and now debate topics are more interesting.

kudos

Gee..uh...I like you too. haha

Wow, I have a fan. I don't imagine I'm making many of those of my debate opponents.

Thanks for the compliments.

[RMan]

IMO, if MS had the same resources that Sony has, they'd do precisely the same thing. If they had the kind of media muscle, and was able to capitalize on it the same way, then every 360 would have a HD, HD-DVD (or a proprietary format), and likely have the same pricepoints. In the end, it's hard to say if it's the right time for Sony to make this move, but both of them want to be bigger media providers.

I mean, really, who doubts that, sure they both produce video game systems, but everyone here knows that neither makes money on them (or at least it's not where the real money is). They currently make money by getting a piece of the software being put on the system, that’s the business model. They’re already media providers, the hardware itself is just a means to an end (like a cell phone provider eating the costs of the phone). If either of them can apply that model to more types of media, and/or do it electronically thus avoiding other distribution costs, why on earth wouldn’t they? The only difference is Sony is currently making a stronger push (or promising/threatening to) into other media than MS or Nintendo.

[51|RandoM]

So you're saying there is something wrong with free matching and connectivity? :confused:

obviously, since you don't get that with an xbox360. ;)

[GunnyMo]

Well color me confused then, because I can't for the life of me think of anything they'd be able to sell me (or even a product they'd try to sell me) that would go in my living room. MS makes software...they should continue making software imho.

Talk about trolling. You refuse to buy a product based solely on an outright hatred for MS making hardware.

The 360 is a fantastic system. If you are a gamer, you would give it a try. True gamers cross any platform for good games not who makes them or the console. Mainstream gamers (and thick headed fanboys) are the ones who refuse to by a system/game simply because it is made by Sony, or MS, or Nintendo or whoever.

I bash the PS3 because it is easy. The system, as announced, is laughable, imho. Does that mean I won't buy one eventually? Nope. As soon as there are games worth playing and the console is at a reasonable price I'll pick it up. $600 to beta test the Blu-Ray at launch is a compelte waste of money. Free online play the level of XB Live or PC? Doubtful given Sony's poor online record with consoles.

MS has proven they can make a quality product that is a great addition to your gaming setup (as did Sony with the PS2). To bash them for that is ignorant.

[Mr.Condescension]

Talk about trolling. You refuse to buy a product based solely on an outright hatred for MS making hardware.

The 360 is a fantastic system. If you are a gamer, you would give it a try. True gamers cross any platform for good games not who makes them or the console. Mainstream gamers (and thick headed fanboys) are the ones who refuse to by a system/game simply because it is made by Sony, or MS, or Nintendo or whoever.

I bash the PS3 because it is easy. The system, as announced, is laughable, imho. Does that mean I won't buy one eventually? Nope. As soon as there are games worth playing and the console is at a reasonable price I'll pick it up. $600 to beta test the Blu-Ray at launch is a compelte waste of money. Free online play the level of XB Live or PC? Doubtful given Sony's poor online record with consoles.

MS has proven they can make a quality product that is a great addition to your gaming setup (as did Sony with the PS2). To bash them for that is ignorant.

Well met, Gunny, but if you'd read my other threads yesterday you'd already know that I currently have at least a dozen games for all 3 current gen systems and plan on buying 360 games already. I am particularly interested in Gears and Lost Planet. I have no allegiance to any one company, and I've been clear about that.

As for trolling.... do you know you're in a PS3 thread? How can someone who likes the PS3 be trolling in a PS3 thread? Perhaps I should repost my comments in a Microsoft thread and then you could call me a troll.

And on your last, and most important point, I am not bashing the 360 or Microsoft for making it. I'm not bashing Microsoft for making the first Xbox. I am asking a perfectly honest series of questions: how does Microsoft plan to make money in the console business, do they intend to make money at all or is that side of the business a marketing expense, and what is their eventual goal if not to make money. That is not commentary on the game consoles in any way, or Microsoft for making them. I am honestly unsure why Microsoft has lost so much money on their gaming division.

[GunnyMo]

Hrm, well, my mistake then. I coulda sworn I read up before posting my scathing diatribe. I stand corrected, good sir. :D (that is without sarcasm, btw).

I was just in a troll sort of mood this morning. I told the wife I saw a troll driving the car behind us and she told me to "lay off the weed". Which is probably a good idea what with our having an offspring and all.

Personally, I think that when you have as much disposable cash laying around as MS does why shouldn't you, on a lark, jump into the console business? I figure they have bets going in the executive lounge as to if and when they will make a profit. It's a game to them. Literally.

[Mr.Condescension]

Haha, I didn't know they gave licenses to trolls! :D

One of my friends introduced the "Xbox as marketing" idea to me recently, and in a way it makes sense. It seems like consumer ill will toward them has gone down strikingly since the introduction of their gaming console business. I would be particularly interested to know the numbers on the whole matter....how much MS losses on xbox and xbox 360 are compared to their overall bottom line, and also how much their typical marketing endeavors cost them. If they spend as much or more money on just marketing alone, perhaps losing money on the xbox 360 is a worthwhile investment. I honestly want to know.

Congradulations on the offspring, btw.