Ken Kutaragi: Higher-End Playstation 3 Model in the Future

[Borys]

PC Watch (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/), a japanese software/ hardware news site have sat down with Ken Kutaragi of Sony Japan ("The Father of Playstation") for an interview (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0607/kaigai276.htm) about Playstation 3 video entertainment system.

A very kind spirit called Viano at E-mpire (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=57707) forums has translated the most interesting parts of the article:


- games on PS3 are running on the PS3 with "basic configuration"
- software will have different relationship with hardware (including non-gaming applications) in the future
- software module will be made inside the PS3 (such as OS?) so PS3 will have no problem adopting new hardware parts (this doesn't mean you can upgrade but just different versions of PS3)
- thus two models of PS3 are actually two different configurations, there might be other configurations in future, such as: enhanced version of CELL, more memory etc. The higher-end model of PS3 might be released in future.


There's also a very interesting picture (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0607/kaigai276_02l.gif) titled "Changes of Software Module" included in the article.

Please note that the interview is in japanese. The E-mpire link I provided includes an automated translation of the WHOLE interview, be sure to check it out.

There also exists a quite good translation over at Beyond3D (http://www.beyond3d.com) forums - read it here. (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=772350&postcount=1)

Upgrading a console?
...
Ken Kutaragi. Out of his mind, out of control!

[bapenguin]

Upgrading a console?
...
Ken Kutaragi. Out of his mind, out of control!

Well...if we don't need PCs...we'll have to upgrade SOMETHING! *Ba-dum-ching*

[Reanimated]

So I can buy the 600 dollar version this year with the ugly games, and get the 800 dollar version next year with the real next-gen titles?

Sweet!

[Borys]

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0607/kaigai276_01.gif

People, Ken did a tremendous job on PS2, it is the best console out there, my favourite console ever, but this time, really people, somebody get him AWAY from PS3 before he runs it into the ground :(

REALLY PEOPLE... help him, help me...

[Citizen Philip]

Sounds like a MAC.

With err.. games.

[Dabombpizza]

So...is the PS3 a proprietary PC? I'm really starting to get confused...

[devicelimit]

... somebody get him AWAY from PS3 before he runs it into the ground :(


Too late...

[BleedTheFreak]

I need to stop reading about the PS3. I'm trying to stay unbiased and always plead to my friends I'm going to get all the systems, but between all the PS3 updates we've been getting, then contrasting that with yesterdays excellent 360 update, and it's hard to justify spending anything on Sony's product, at least this year.

[KarmaGhost]

I thought the point of this generation of consoles what that they could do a lot of the things PCs can do, but cheaper and more conveniently (i.e. in your living room). Having a $600 console that can be upgraded like a PC? Sounds like a proprietary PC to me, too, Dabombpizza.

[Ajguy]

How can you put more memory into a console? I hope you means hard drive memory and not RAM. Otherwise, it will either go to waste or games will need this "higher end" PS3 to run at all. Makes no sense to me.

[Doctor Setebos]

Well...if we don't need PCs...we'll have to upgrade SOMETHING! *Ba-dum-ching*LOL. That was fantastic. :D

[Borys]

I think Sony forgot about their little failure^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ adventure called PSX:

http://www.presen.co.jp/EVENT/EVE/EVE-109/PSX.jpg

[dotbomb]

What a waste. I'll wait 3 years, instead of 1, for Sony to sort this out before I consider buying one now. I'm happy with my recently purchased PS2.

[SexualChoc]

Oh nuts. So we can now spend far too much on a console, to then upgrade it a year later.

Thanks Sony!

[dimsumx]

Sounds like a MAC.

With err.. games.

Hey! Macs have games!

Like Photoshop.

[Wonka]

I think Sony forgot about their little failure^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ adventure called PSX:

http://www.presen.co.jp/EVENT/EVE/EVE-109/PSX.jpg

I think that you are correct. I think that IS what they are planning.

I don't see how this would hurt them though.

[Citizen Philip]

How can you put more memory into a console? I hope you means hard drive memory and not RAM. Otherwise, it will either go to waste or games will need this "higher end" PS3 to run at all. Makes no sense to me.

I don't think it's unreasonable, depending how it would be done. Being able to double up your memory near the end of a console's lifetime when developers are tweaking the hell out of the system, would be fine. Of course, cost is a limiting factor.

I mean comon.. nextgen is going to cost as much as a PC anyways. :rolleyes:

[Norse]

How did this crackpot land a job at Sony in the first place? The only thing coming from his mouth is nonsens. He might have a brilliant mind, but he needs to be under strict control and learn to STFU!

[Soap]

The "upgrade" option reminds me a lot of the Nintendo 64. Anyone remember the RAM upgrade? I remember shelling out cash for it to support my GoldenEye deathmatches with my friends. But I honestly can't remember if it helped with preformance.

Anyone else get this for their Nintendo 64? If so, did you notice a difference?

[Roc Ingersol]

Console games with minimum system requirements? .... bwuhahaha. :D

[Savok]

They're ripping off Nintendo again of course, only Nintendo does it with handhelds that don't cost as much as black market organs.

Gotta love Sony, always taking the worst from everything.

[dimsumx]

Wow. Krazy Ken is pretty much saying that early adopters for the PS3 are gonna get fucked.

You know, Sony's PR handling of the PS3 is turning out to be a Katamari of crap.

And it's getting bigger.

[Savok]

The "upgrade" option reminds me a lot of the Nintendo 64. Anyone remember the RAM upgrade? I remember shelling out cash for it to support my GoldenEye deathmatches with my friends. But I honestly can't remember if it helped with preformance.

Anyone else get this for their Nintendo 64? If so, did you notice a difference?
Yes and not really. It was really there so stuff like Perfect Dark would work. Hot little fucker as well.

[ColdForged]

I love that picture referenced in the original post, which essentially boils down to:

"Hear that ya'll? We're using encapsulation. We're on the bleeding edge."

[absolut taco]

Console games with minimum system requirements? .... bwuhahaha. :D
Minimum: $500 PS3
Recommended: $600 PS3 with RSX2 graphics, CELL2 cpu, Blu-ray2 Drive...
The possibilities are endless... but announcing upgradability will probably scare off some early buyers.

[Savok]

Also anyone else think this is why that PR chick left? She saw this and couldn't find anything at all redeeming to spin.

[Serapth]

So, does this mean that all sony fanboys are actually about to become PC gaming fanboys? Im just waiting for the mouse/keyboard announcement, then frankly I will stop refering to the PS3 as a console. More and more each day its turning into a propreitary PC, just running Linux and Cell instead of Windows and Intel.

God, consoles for gaming outsell PC games massively on the simple fact that consoles ARENT PCs. Ken seems to have forgotten this.

[Reanimated]

All I can say is

ba da bap ba ba

http://www.sandiegofamily.com/graphics/ask%20our%20read/im-lovin-it.gif

[dimsumx]

I don't think it's unreasonable, depending how it would be done. Being able to double up your memory near the end of a console's lifetime when developers are tweaking the hell out of the system, would be fine. Of course, cost is a limiting factor.

I mean comon.. nextgen is going to cost as much as a PC anyways. :rolleyes:


That sounds fine...till you realize that his plans aren't for the end of the console's life. From the interview:

KK: I think it's okay to release a (extended) configuration every year (laugh). Though I say it like a joke, Dell will do it and Apple will do it too. In PC, if you fix (the spec) for 2 years you'll be catched up. Computers should be changing, right? It's inevitable that 60GB (HDD) will become short, memory may become short too. There are many possibilities.


I'm starting to feel really sorry for whoever's plopping $600 bucks this season.

[Norse]

Stupid me always believed MS would be the first to turn their console into a PC.

[sflufan]

Built-to-order PS3s?!?! Give me a break.

So much for socialist console equality!

[Citizen Philip]

That sounds fine...till you realize that his plans aren't for the end of the console's life. From the interview:




I'm starting to feel really sorry for whoever's plopping $600 bucks this season.

Uh.. he said it was a joke and then carried off on a tangent about upgradeability? I guess you see what you need to.

[KRS]

Add ons like the N64 RAM pack, PS2HDD, 32X, etc never sell well and game developers wind up programming for the lowest configuration.

Even if Sony does want to go this route, they'd be wise to STFU about it and stop scaring their potential customers.

/Future Wii and 360 owner

[Savok]

Not true in the case the N64 RAM pack, lot of late AAA titles used it.

[Kelegacy]

I think Sony forgot about their little failure^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ adventure called PSX:

http://www.presen.co.jp/EVENT/EVE/EVE-109/PSX.jpg
That's what the PS3 is starting to look like, unfortunately. I get ragged on for being a Sonyboy, but at least I can step back and hate the PS3 already. They're setting MS up for the lead, the stupid fucks.

My love of Sony comes from my happiness with the PS1 and PS2. I'm just not feeling it for the third incarnation.

[dimsumx]

Uh.. he said it was a joke and then carried off on a tangent about upgradeability? I guess you see what you need to.


Did you read the whole thing? First he laughs about it like a joke, then he compares it to other companies doing it. Then he rationalizes it and calls it inevitable. So what am I supposed to be seeing?

Truth in jest, in my opinion.

[Reanimated]

That's what the PS3 is starting to look like, unfortunately. I get ragged on for being a Sonyboy, but at least I can step back and hate the PS3 already. They're setting MS up for the lead, the stupid fucks.

My love of Sony comes from my happiness with the PS1 and PS2. I'm just not feeling it for the third incarnation.




You'll be back on the Bang Bus by November.

[ElectricMonk]

I wouldn't mind seeing upgraded ram capabilities on consoles. It did work for the 64.

Besides, ram is falling in price constantly, doubling the ram in another 5 years will cost $30.

also, It wouldn't be too much effort to write a game that works on 2 different memory configurations. People have been making pc games that use all of your avaliable ram for a while.

[Ajguy]

Yes, but this isn't upgradeable RAM form his comments. This is buying a completely different system. It's not them saying, "You bought a $600 PS3 and now we're going to sell you more RAM for $50." It's, "You bought a $600 PS3 and now games aren't going to work on it. But if you'd like, I have this $700 PS3 that will get you going."

[Stevercakes]

Isn't the whole point of consoles to be ease of use? Plug and Play? I'd much rather have one configuration and then you don't have to worry about not having the right hardware to play a game.

Off Topic: I just play rockstars table tennis for the 360 at a friends house and am possibly considering getting a 360 now.

[Manzy]

Not true in the case the N64 RAM pack, lot of late AAA titles used it.

I'm reasonably sure that if Donkey Kong 64 did not ship with a free expansion pack (I don't know any of the sales figures, but I'm sure it's pretty high, being a Donkey Kong title and all) that devs wouldn't have used it as much as the did in late stages of 64.

I guess if Sony just releases a Final Fantasy 223 or a Metal Gear Solid 40 ("The last one, I promise!" -Kojima) bundled with whatever crap you would need, it would work.

[Rook34]

They should just call it like it is and be done with it that the PS3 is a computer. The stupid part is that you can buy a decent computer for a little over the 600 mark and if the PS3 is going to have a further upgraded model for sale for even more money - fuck - just buy a computer!

The whole reason consoles are attractive to devs is that they are all standardized. Sony is trying very hard to change the rules for consoles this generation, but the changes they are shooting for are totally screwing over the consumers. And I agree that it is very hard to stay unbiased - Sony is just making it too easy to be shredded by the opposition.

On the other hand, the jokes are pretty funny and I do love a good laugh.

[absolut taco]

also, It wouldn't be too much effort to write a game that works on 2 different memory configurations. People have been making pc games that use all of your avaliable ram for a while.
My 360 games crash enough as it is with ONE configuration.

[Citizen Philip]

Did you read the whole thing? First he laughs about it like a joke, then he compares it to other companies doing it. Then he rationalizes it and calls it inevitable. So what am I supposed to be seeing?

Truth in jest, in my opinion.

Moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moores_law) : is essentially what is being talked about.

Or more bluntly and less accurately: computer hardware doubles in strength every couple years. Consoles are shielded from this, PCs are not. Being able to upgrade does allow access to the potential of getting more for you money by allowing you to do small upgrades instead of new systems.

ie. fixing the old car instead of buying the new one. Which is pretty much what "upgrading" means for PCs.

[BorisCal]

I see this as very bad news for those who wanted a PS3 in November, I have some friends of mine that are actually considering to buy one at that time.
I bought the PS2 shortly after it came out and only bought the xbox 2 years ago.
If I'm buying a console this November it's either going to be the Wii or the 360, I currently have absolutely no love for the PS3.

[bKangy]

This man really wants to be unemployed. I can tell.

[Kelegacy]

You'll be back on the Bang Bus by November.
I can't imagine how. I'm not buying a PS3 for a very long time. I did say the same about the 360 though, so who knows. They need to wow me with a content-rich game to really win my money at that rate, though. Oblivion sold me on the 360, I can't imagine what would sell me on the PS3 at 600 bucks.

And what's with this pigeonholing me into Sonydom? You people are always quick to label people fanboys even when they are not.

[mister_slim]

Hey! Macs have games!

Like Photoshop.
I love Photoshop Tennis.

[schnodder]

This Kutamari guy is creepy.

MODERATOR: *No image sigs*

[Returner]

Not true in the case the N64 RAM pack, lot of late AAA titles used it.

These are the only ones I remember and I wouldn't say it's a lot.

I don't remember if The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time used it.

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Donkey Kong 64
Perfect Dark
Star Wars: Episode I Racer
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron

[fitbabits]

You know, Borys, for a fanboy you're doing a damn fine job of destroying the PS3! Keep up the good work! :)

[torrefaction]

How did this crackpot land a job at Sony in the first place? The only thing coming from his mouth is nonsens. He might have a brilliant mind, but he needs to be under strict control and learn to STFU!

Ken actually was incredibly masterful with the PS2. For some of us that remember back then, it's almost impossible to believe this is the same guy.

I think the japanese have something in their water...they just get whackier as time goes by.

[Borys]

You know, Borys, for a fanboy you're doing a damn fine job of destroying the PS3! Keep up the good work! :)

H-h-h-how did you call me?

PS Thanks for the monies. MS sure pays well!

[fitbabits]

H-h-h-how did you call me?

PS Thanks for the monies. MS sure pays well!
Don't spend it all in the one Microsoft aisle!

[vg132]

So did anyone read the translation? Games will ALWAYS run in basic configuration, thay will not make use of the extra ram or extra cell or what ever. Software applications on the other hand will be able to take advantage of this extra power if the user wants to add it.

[Zanzibar]

Read this exchange:

HG: The computing power of PS3 Cell far exceeds PC. Though it depends on the kind of computing, its processing performance is outstanding. But its programming model is complicated and the hurdle is high. It seems third-party develpers polarize between those who can't handle Cell and those who are very excited about Cell.

KK: Even at the time of PlayStation 1 those who were into 2D graphics were like "we can't handle PlayStation, I can't understand what it does, but it's OK as it has the library."

It's no doubt that game consoles are becoming computers today. As the result (programming) becomes different from so far. It's strange that they say it's hard to create a software when the processing performance of a game console gets higher. Nobody says he/she can't create a software because clockspeed, memory and HDD of PC get better and heavier. We want top gun (programmers) to show their skill on PS3.

HG: For now actually, developments on PS3 rely on programmers' talents and efforts. There are not yet enough libraries and middlewares to lessen the burden on developers.

KK: We continue to add middlewares. But, actually, middleware is too much for one and not enough for two. It's been always like that. It's not always true that relying on a middleware makes a good game. At least in PS3, it becomes disastrous if you don't know where to use middlewares and where to be careful.

HG: Microsoft try to realize the programming framework which was successful on PC on a game console too. They are adding standardized socket APIs on the OS.

KK: Since Microsoft is coming from PC, they say things are like that in the world of PC. But, if I look at it, I think it has no evolution.

Ken's Brain: Developers will continue to get screwed by Sony. Yeah, I guess it's nice that Microsoft has standard APIs, but it's best that Developers not get used to relying on middleware to help them program for the PS3.

[Metal Jesus]

Sony tried this "bigger/better version of the Playstatoin" with the Playstation X, remember that? Nobody else does either... and it bombed.

http://www.allnum.com/image/psx.gif

[Janos Marik]

I do find it funny that sony (Ken anyways) are trying to make the PS3 into the multimedia computer of a house. It may work if they don't change the inside specs. I get enough questions about what computer a user should buy, just imagine if the consumer goes into BestBuy and sees 5 versions of the PS3, and then they ask the loaded question of which PS3 is for them. To bad they didn't just put in a regular DVD drive, and then upgrade the memory to 1GB.

[Mr.Condescension]

This is old news. Kutaragi has already mentioned in the past that you can add USB and blue-tooth devices to the system as well as swapping out the hard drive for any standard laptop hard drive. He's also made a point of stating that games will always be programmed for and have to run on the $500 unit/configuration available for launch. Everyone is so busy trying to hate on anything Kuturagi says.

Basically, this is beneficial news for everyone who wants a PS3 as a media center for the home/ basic computer and will have no effect whatsoever on gaming. Has no one here read about Sony execs hinting at the possibility of a PS3 running as a DVR using a TV Tuner over USB? Has no one considered that normal everyday people, like, say, your mothers, wanting to use the PS3 to store pictures of her children and display them as a screen saver on her 60' TV, or browse the web without the worry of figuring out a complex (to luddites) operating system? (the dashboard browser was already demo'd at E3).

[Mr.Condescension]

So did anyone read the translation? Games will ALWAYS run in basic configuration, thay will not make use of the extra ram or extra cell or what ever. Software applications on the other hand will be able to take advantage of this extra power if the user wants to add it.

Exactly my point. Does no one actually read the news articles anymore before jumping on the bash Sony wagon? I could post an article saying "Ken Kutaragi quoted as saying "PS3 will melt antarctica and cause penguins to migrate to Alaska. Many will die in the 'culling'. [translated by google]" and everybody would jump on the bandwagon without actually reading the linked article. "Sony is so stupid! You can't kill off the Penguins! Nooooo!"

[TrackZero]

"- software will have different relationship with hardware (including non-gaming applications) in the future"

Now the software will take the hardware out to dinner and a movie first, buy it flowers, etc., before it leaves hardware used up and sitting alone on a curb.

[blackzc]

I think we are being cornsahwabled*.


What are a couple of reason why sony would want to get out of the gaming market and go back home? It seems like they are really just heading down that road on purpose. Stocks? Bonds? Some secret meeting where the big dogs have decided its time to get out. Mabye its just plain FACT that no one can rule for more than 2 generations and they are planing an exit strategy?

Of course they have to release the PS3 to save thier name, but it really seems like they want out.

[Phanto]

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0607/kaigai276_01.gif

People, Ken did a tremendous job on PS2, it is the best console out there, my favourite console ever, but this time, really people, somebody get him AWAY from PS3 before he runs it into the ground :(

REALLY PEOPLE... help him, help me...


One word: BluRay

I'm not bashing Sony or anything with this comment but Sony only care about the success of the BluRay over the HD-DVD, if I'm correct the only way that the "might win" that war is pushing the Bluray with the PS3, they are making big risks by doing that do you imagine that the BluRay fail in the market??
What would happend to the PS3?!?

Their should focus on making a great console I know they can, but just because the last console of theirs was very successful that doens't mean its going to happend again, people it underestimates things and the ways of life, we will just have to wait and see.

[Savok]

These are the only ones I remember and I wouldn't say it's a lot.

I don't remember if The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time used it.

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Donkey Kong 64
Perfect Dark
Star Wars: Episode I Racer
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
We're talking about the N64, this is a lot

[fitbabits]

We're talking about the N64, this is a lot
Z-I-N-G! :)

[Sl1pstream]

Bah, I started out hating Sony. My hate died and I eventually bought a PS2. Couldn't they just leave it at that?

[Morratut]

Oh wow Ken at his best! He just keeps sprouting bullshit doesn't he.

I'm feeling for ya Borys. I'm sure the PS3 will still be a good console though.