Sony not concerned with console market share

[Kamalot]

Tech and gadget haven, Engadget is reporting (http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/03/sony-not-so-concerned-with-market-share-ah-that-explains-it/) that Sony isn’t interested in console market share with the PS3.

“The name of the game is not market share, it's how fast we can grow the industry”This proves more than a little befuddling for gamers everywhere. Without market share, developers typically move to greener pastures, creating games for the dominant console in the market. We’ve seen this in previous generations with powerful or expensive consoles being overlooked by developers for consoles with more mass-market penetration.

“We want to try and double digital entertainment in the next five to six years. Whether we have 40, 50, or 60 per cent market share is not that important.”What form of ‘digital entertainment’ is Sony trying to grow if not video games? DVDs and CDs are already digital forms of entertainment with a fairly large install base.

One thing is clear though, without a desire to dominate the console market this generation, Sony has all but given up winning when it comes to market share.

[bapenguin]

If Sony doesn't care about Marketshare, how come they opened up their E3 presentation flaunting it?

[WastelandDan]

this is just two weird. It's almost like they're responding "Oh yeah? Well you can't fire me because I quit!"

[ElectricMonk]

I find it kind of amusing that their PR lady recently quit. Krazy Ken's comments must have been causing her too much job stress.

[Johan]

I agree with Kamalot, in that if Sony gets too blase about market share, third-party developers are less inclined to green-light exclusives; as exclusives dwindle, market share does too. It becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. I don't think Sony is in any real danger of this (a la Nintendo and the GC), but I also don't think they will dominate this round as before. Their statements are just a way of playing off their impending loss of share as "unimportant" since it's apparently a foregone conclusion at this point; nobody truly believes they will command 70% this round; that's just NOT going to happen. Probably more like 40-50%. The Wii is the wild card in all of this, to me...could be dominant (perhaps 50%?) this generation. Hard to tell.

[Zeal]

Console Wars III: Rise of Microsoft

[Vandenh]

If Bluray wins and becomes a big standard like DVD, Sony won't need games any more anyway.

[Kamalot]

Their statements are just a way of playing off their impending loss of share as "unimportant" since it's apparently a foregone conclusion at this point...
Sounds like 'sour grapes' to me.

A hungry fox noticed a juicy bunch of grapes growing high on a grapevine. He leaped. He snapped. Drooling, he jumped to reach them, but try as he might, he could not obtain the tasty prize.

Disappointed by the fruitless efforts he'd made to get the grapes that day, he said, with a shrug, to comfort himself, "Oh, they were probably sour anyway!"

[kickmybum]

I find it kind of amusing that their PR lady recently quit. Krazy Ken's comments must have been causing her too much job stress.

I have to admit, I'm an Xbox fanboy, but I think people are taking this article in the wrong context and jumping on the sony hate band wagon. Notice that this Sony quote is essentially a blatant rip off of Nintendo's interview ("we want to appeal to non-gamers, grow the industry"), however, because of Nintendo's current market place and direction, no one would dare say "Nintendo doesn't care about market share!".

Anyways, I think the bigger news is that the PR lady resigned.

[51|RandoM]

I don't think it matters what anybody says till we see the product. It isn't professional to get a different story from a different person every different day from Sony, though.

Some days you wonder if the PS3 is even going to be released. Oops, we were going to release it, but decided to file chapter 11 instead. :p

[Expugnare]

What form of ‘digital entertainment’ is Sony trying to grow if not video games?
Bluray.

10 characters

[Kamalot]

I don't think it matters what anybody says till we see the product.
I'd argue that it is VERY important what Sony says. Listening to Sony execs lets us know where their focus is and what their goals are. If Sony isn't even trying to be the #1 console this time, that is a VERY important thing for developers and gamers to know.

Developers are going to be interested in putting their games out on a platform that will give them the biggest return on investment. Knowing that Sony isn't even going to attempt to dominate the industry will have developers looking at a better value for their investment. Statements like these mean we'll see fewer exclusive titles for the PS3, if history is any indication.

And yes, if Bluray wins the HD format war over HD-DVD, AND the HD format is as big of a sea-change as DVD was, then Sony won't NEED the PS3. As such, neither will people who want a Bluray player, cause in 2 years, standalone Bluray players will be cheaper than a PS3 anyway. Movie buffs will buy a standalone player, gamers will buy the system with the most games. This leaves the PS3 out in the cold since gamers and developers will go where the games are.

In another scenario, where Bluray does not win the HD format war OR the HD movie format isn't important to consumers as they continue to stick with DVD, PS3 also fares badly. Without the Bluray incentive, what other reason will there to buy a PS3? Lilttle mass-market penetration means the PS3 game selection will be too poor to win over many consumers. PS3 will end up a giant albatross for Sony.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why any company would be willing to lose 900 MILLION dollars (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/sony/sony-to-lose-900m-in-20062007-on-ps3-launch-169963.php) next year with no intention of winning the console race.

[Kamalot]

Bluray.
You know, I thought about that long and hard before I submitted the post.

We want to try and double digital entertainment in the next five to six years
This CAN'T be talking about Bluray. I'm sure they want Bluray to catch on, but they want to 'double' the amount of digital entertainment? Double the current Bluray penetration of today is...get this...nothing.

Bluray currently has 0% market penetration. You can't buy a player, you can't buy movies.

Unless they are talking about purchasing songs online, I'm stumped. I also don't know who would buy a PS3 just to get music online. You can get a PC capable of surfing the Internet and buying songs from iTunes (or allofmp3.com) for cheaper than a PS3. You can do a lot more than a PS3 too, like installing your own software.

[Kelegacy]

Console Wars III: Rise of Microsoft
Console Monopoly IV, V, VI: The End of Fun

[EternalGamer]

I agree with the previous poster that said that people are taking this in the wrong context. What Sony is saying is that they have "bigger visions" that just being the market leader, that they actually want to be responsible for growing the industry and that they see that as where they will be successfull.

Then again the specific comment about how it "doesn't matter whether we have 40, 50, or 60%" seems pretty strange. It's almost like they are trying to put spin on being in second place because they have considered it a forgone conclusion. If they are hedging their bets this early, it certainly seems like something has gone terribly wrong.

[Draft]

Console Monopoly IV, V, VI: The End of FunThere already is a console monopoly. Has it ruined your fun yet?

[SexualChoc]

If Sony don't want market share, then what do they want? The are clearly taking a gamble by trying to launch there own media platform. And while superior, it comes at a cost. I think Sony are just trying to find the niche in the market who will keep them afloat. They have had great success with past incarnations of the PlayStation, so it cuts them a bit of slack. But without the mass support, they will have a tough time. What with Microsoft clearly knowing what they are doing now, and the Wii being so cheap, people are going to find their favourite games on other platforms. I mean PS3 has Grand Turismo, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Devil May Cry 4 among others. Then the mass multimedia outputs, but not everyone is going to be able to use them. Sony seem to want to aim for the geek demographic, and not care less about others.

Only time will tell.

[EternalGamer]

He means that a Microsoft monopoly would ruin the fun. But, have faith Kel. If MS really did gain a monopoly all those japanese developers would probably start sucking it up and making games for it. Which means the 360 would probably actually be useful for more than just playing generic hyper-masculine Sci-fi shooters. It means the 360 might actually have (gasp) a library of decent games. ;)

[Heretic Machine]

Wow... Sony basically just said they lost the console war.

EDIT: They really need that PR person back...

[Major Dan]

Sony is acting strange, they do seem to be copying Nintendo, grow the market of digital entertainment, movies, games, music and more I would guess, and if the market grows then 40-60% of market share, would still be plenty profitable. So I can see what they are doing. They may realize that if the market grows their market share will probably go down, but all three will be making more money then before, depending on how big the market actually expands. If you could imagine a PS3, XBox 360, or Wii in every household you might get the picture, and this would probably shrink the PC market somewhat, but it would also continue the decrease in TV watching also, I would guess. So our hobby looks like it might get even more mainstream it seems. Good or Bad, I don't know for sure, but as long as good games are getting made maybe it will not matter.

Musings of a Madman? Maybe so, but I can see it happening.

[grammatoncleric]

Expanding the market by doubling the price and making an even more niche and specialized product?

gl and gratz to you sony.

[Thenetcase]

In related news, "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" by Tiny Tim is no longer in the top 40!

[Rook34]

They gotta come up with SOMETHING ot say about how poorly they did at E3, so saying they didn't care anyway works, I guess. How many of us told other people when we lost at something in our lives that "Eh, I didn't really care anyway."?
Maybe we are reading too much into it, but at this point, Sony really ought to be watching ALL their P's and Q's and carefully monitoring their public image, but they aren't. Sony - the one we love to hate.

[ldi222]

If Microsoft starts to gain a significant market share advantage this time around and the 360 becomes pseudo PS2 like successful with installed base then it is time to worry a bit. MS is a very different company when they dominate a market rather then when they are competing in it. Although, even after saying that I have to say that Windows XP is a damn good OS and Vista looks to be even better.

Still, a console monopoly is pretty much impossible so as long as there is competition we can expect great things. Given the history of consoles it could stand to reason that MS will win this and next gen and then get arrogant leave an opening for someone else to rise up and compete (although its very difficult to think of any newcomer making a serious bid given the enormous cost of launching).

The only thing Microsoft is really worried about is getting their OS in the living room so I could foresee a 360 victory and then licenses of that tech to other hardware vendors such as Samsung even built in to their devices which ironically was the vision of 3D0 back in the day.

[Deathbane27]

Even if Sony completely imploded, there would still be no worry of a Microsoft monopoly in the console market. They'll probably never even make a foothold in Japan. Square Enix and the other major Japanese publishers will devote themselves entirely to Nintendo again before going to Microsoft.

I, personally, would love to see Nintendo rise to the top again for a generation or two.

[Kelegacy]

He means that a Microsoft monopoly would ruin the fun. But, have faith Kel. If MS really did gain a monopoly all those japanese developers would probably start sucking it up and making games for it. Which means the 360 would probably actually be useful for more than just playing generic hyper-masculine Sci-fi shooters. It means the 360 might actually have (gasp) a library of decent games. ;)
Yeah, I suppose. I'd rather have some other company monopolize the market, though, even if it was Pfizer or Philip Morris. Really.

[Achilles]

Keep in mind, that as a Sony exec has recently stated, they own ~50% of all the color movies ever made. I guess they’re more interested in selling them to you again on Blu-Ray than they are maintaining their profitability and brand dominance in the console market.

I think it’s a mistake. The difference between Blu-Ray in the PS3 and DVD in the PS2 is huge.

[bapenguin]

Console Monopoly IV, V, VI: The End of Fun

That's what Sony had with the PS1...look what happened? Marketshare is an ebb and flow.

[Expugnare]

You know, I thought about that long and hard before I submitted the post.


This CAN'T be talking about Bluray. I'm sure they want Bluray to catch on, but they want to 'double' the amount of digital entertainment? Double the current Bluray penetration of today is...get this...nothing.

Bluray currently has 0% market penetration. You can't buy a player, you can't buy movies.

Unless they are talking about purchasing songs online, I'm stumped. I also don't know who would buy a PS3 just to get music online. You can get a PC capable of surfing the Internet and buying songs from iTunes (or allofmp3.com) for cheaper than a PS3. You can do a lot more than a PS3 too, like installing your own software.
I think they wre talking about general electronic entertainment, as in movies, music and game, not just one type (bluray, DVD, CD, etc.) Therefore they want to release the PS3 which can (supposedly) do all of this to somehow get people more interested in it. The reasons I think it won't work is that 1) Computers can do most of that without a 600 dollar machine except the bluray and that leads to 2) By the time bluray is worth having (if ever) there will be cheaper units available.

I wish they would let go of their pride and drop Bluray, reduce the price by a hundred or so dollars and release games not a psuedo-computer replacement.

[Major Dan]

I think they wre talking about general electronic entertainment, as in movies, music and game, not just one type (bluray, DVD, CD, etc.) Therefore they want to release the PS3 which can (supposedly) do all of this to somehow get people more interested in it. The reasons I think it won't work is that 1) Computers can do most of that without a 600 dollar machine except the bluray and that leads to 2) By the time bluray is worth having (if ever) there will be cheaper units available.

I wish they would let go of their pride and drop Bluray, reduce the price by a hundred or so dollars and release games not a psuedo-computer replacement.

They want to control our living room, because that is where the computer is headed, and so does MS. Both know that is where the money will be.

[Demo_Boy]

Sony is so predictable. Basically they are trying to push a new format since if it takes they will make mondo cash when everyone rebuys their movies at the higher rez of Blu ray.

Clearly they are throwing/risking the brand of Playstation at their attempt to push this format into the lead. Someone at head office said the risk is worth the potential reward.

Meanwhile MS is just making the d@mn finest game machine they can come up with, not trying to push some whacko new format.

I think a lot of customers are going to be the victims of this, namely they buy a PS3 thinking ultimate games, but actually its a super movie player with some good games, while they look longingly at Gears of War.....

How important is the games biz to Sony? Clearly MS feels it is critical with the commitment to suffer a full console lifecycle (XBox) just to get into the arena.

Wii? Well unless the ATI Hollywood chip can do much better graphics than we've seen so far, I think the funky controller won't carry them. If the gfx are XBox level, then Wii could win the generation, because let's face it, XBox gfx are plenty good enough for this gen and Nintendo won't loose the price war that's for sure.

[mister_slim]

It's not just Blu-Ray. The PS3 is the center of Sony's platform strategy for the next ten years, with obvious repercussions for successors. If you're having trouble figuring out what Sony's doing, go read Phil Harrison's final answer in the recent Edge interview. Microsoft is planning the exact same thing, by the way. PlaysForSure, HD-DVD, etc... it's not that difficult to understand.

[Savok]

They're talking about the Sony brain probe which will install DRM software straight into your brain. There's a small chance (about the same as a DRE) that you'll lose the function of your legs but I think you'll agree it's worth it.

[Johan]

Sounds like 'sour grapes' to me.

I don't know how you got that out of "Their statements are just a way of playing off their impending loss of share as "unimportant" since it's apparently a foregone conclusion at this point..." In fact, EternalGamer made a similar point when he said, "they have considered it a forgone conclusion."

Every single independent voice (outside of MS, Nintendo or Sony...i.e. analysts, not p.r. spinmeisters) has been, depending on the way you view it, pretty bullish for MS/Nintendo this generation, or bearish against Sony (you can interpret either way, but the result is the same...less market share for Sony). No grapes, no whining...just reality. It's a pretty healthy development for the industry, too, because having one console manufacturer at 70% depresses competition.

Read whatever you want into it...sounds to me like you're a Sony fan (fanboy might be a bit extreme, so I won't label you that), to get "sour grapes" out of my quote. I'm quite happy with the current generation; in fact, I think the impending generation has been rushed, but that's a whole other issue.

Kind of ironic that I agree with your point, and you accuse me of sour grapes. What the hell is that? Stay on the topic...

[BenSkywalker]

Sony is clearly expecting to win this generation based on their comments- they plan on being between 40% and 60%(MS is DOA in Japan, Nin looks very strong there- MS would be very hard pressed to best Nin on a global basis if they fair strong in Japan). Based on their stated goal, doubling the market, for gaming purposes alone if their marketshare drops to 40% they would end up pushing ~140Million PS3s. Also of note- this is the European market they are talking about. One that Sony had a larger lead in then MS sold total consoles last generation and where the 360 isn't nearly as strong as it is in the US.

I recall when Nin was dismissive of the PSP and many thought they were doomed fighting the unstoppable juggernaut that is Sony(at the time anyway)- then Sony found out that Nin is still the 800lb gorilla of the portable market. Being in Sony's position they would be wise to focus on going against Nin's game plan. They have the fanbase that they can rest easy in landing all of their major franchises- have your first party attempt to dillute what Nin is doing differently then you are. Rest assured if it is Sony's first party, they won't compete- but if they can get close enough to convince gamers they won't miss out on that experience going with a PS3 then they can kill the one potential serious threat they have on a global basis(MS is overwhelmingly a threat in the US market).

[Kamalot]

Sorry if the 'Sour Grapes' statement came off as rude, but it wasn't aimed at you. I'm agreeing with you.

Sony looks at the market, realizes it can't dominate, and says, "That's okay. I didn't really want to will all that market share anyways. I bet it's sour."

I hope nobody else took my 'sour grapes' comment personally either.

I don't know how you got that out of "Their statements are just a way of playing off their impending loss of share as "unimportant" since it's apparently a foregone conclusion at this point..." In fact, EternalGamer made a similar point when he said, "they have considered it a forgone conclusion."

Every single independent voice (outside of MS, Nintendo or Sony...i.e. analysts, not p.r. spinmeisters) has been, depending on the way you view it, pretty bullish for MS/Nintendo this generation, or bearish against Sony (you can interpret either way, but the result is the same...less market share for Sony). No grapes, no whining...just reality. It's a pretty healthy development for the industry, too, because having one console manufacturer at 70% depresses competition.

Read whatever you want into it...sounds to me like you're a Sony fan (fanboy might be a bit extreme, so I won't label you that), to get "sour grapes" out of my quote. I'm quite happy with the current generation; in fact, I think the impending generation has been rushed, but that's a whole other issue.

Kind of ironic that I agree with your point, and you accuse me of sour grapes. What the hell is that? Stay on the topic...

[Jack B]

Sony is clearly expecting to win this generation based on their comments- they plan on being between 40% and 60%(MS is DOA in Japan, Nin looks very strong there- MS would be very hard pressed to best Nin on a global basis if they fair strong in Japan). Based on their stated goal, doubling the market, for gaming purposes alone if their marketshare drops to 40% they would end up pushing ~140Million PS3s. Also of note- this is the European market they are talking about. One that Sony had a larger lead in then MS sold total consoles last generation and where the 360 isn't nearly as strong as it is in the US.

I recall when Nin was dismissive of the PSP and many thought they were doomed fighting the unstoppable juggernaut that is Sony(at the time anyway)- then Sony found out that Nin is still the 800lb gorilla of the portable market. Being in Sony's position they would be wise to focus on going against Nin's game plan. They have the fanbase that they can rest easy in landing all of their major franchises- have your first party attempt to dillute what Nin is doing differently then you are. Rest assured if it is Sony's first party, they won't compete- but if they can get close enough to convince gamers they won't miss out on that experience going with a PS3 then they can kill the one potential serious threat they have on a global basis(MS is overwhelmingly a threat in the US market).

Ben,

On the whole, I agree with your post.

BTW, I keep asking you for your Xbox 360 gamercard. You bashed the 360 and claimed to have sufficient experience with it do so... I'm sure you aren't a Sony fan posing as a 360 user, so prove it.

I sent you an email too... I'm waiting...

Here's the URL to re-posting your gamertag.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13382&page=1

[mister_slim]

Ben,

On the whole, I agree with your post.

BTW, I keep asking you for your Xbox 360 gamercard. You bashed the 360 and claimed to have sufficient experience with it do so... I'm sure you aren't a Sony fan posing as a 360 user, so prove it.

I sent you an email too... I'm waiting...

Here's the URL to re-posting your gamertag.
There's no URL there. This is the internet, by the way. He hardly has to prove anything, especially if you're already sure.

[51|RandoM]

I'd argue that it is VERY important what Sony says. Listening to Sony execs lets us know where their focus is and what their goals are. If Sony isn't even trying to be the #1 console this time, that is a VERY important thing for developers and gamers to know.



Does anybody really think Sony isn't trying to be #1? Anybody? Bueler? Bueler?

[Jack B]

There's no URL there. This is the internet, by the way. He hardly has to prove anything, especially if you're already sure.

mister_slim,

I'm not sure... I expect BenSkywalker's logged some hours on Oblivion, but not much more. There is a part of me, that wonders, "what if he made all that crap up about his troubles with the 360....".

What if he now has to go buy one and quickly generate gamer points, before posting his gamertag... :D I doubt that's true, but I'm waiting.

He's the 1st I've called out on this issue, but the longer he dodges it the more I wonder. His inability to acknowledge anyone elses points or errors in his own motivate me further...

I could post a week after the PS3 came out that "it's crap. The graphics are horrible, and it keeps crashing all day long. I hate the Live service..." etc, etc. And all the while, I don't even own one, I'm just making stories up that are simliar to others, just to stir to pot. Not cool.

I imagine there have been fan boys that have done that type of thing. BenSkywalker is a special case for me... ;) and it's a simple thing to enter your Xbox Live gamertag in your Evil Avatar profile.

If I were to outright lie about something, I'd expect to be called out and if I had proof or sources, I'd back up my comments with them.

Evil Avatar needs posters, who are willing to backup their statements. I know we have many that don't, but I would expect no less from others who challenged me. :)

[theguido]

Well, I think that what I got out of that is that they're not that concerned about grabbing market share because they realize that, realistically they're not going to be able to gain any this generation. So they're not concerned about gaining market share---they just want to stay within certain ranges of market share (that 40, 50, 60 number he mentioned). It also seemed that didn't care about the exact numbers they got, as long as it fell within the 40-60 range.

I think it's going to be a tight race, and Sony getting 40-60 of the market, even on the low end, would mean that they would probably still be in a good position in the marketplace. They will lose some games, but at 40 percent they'll still be in a decent position to have enough games out to compete.

I mean, if Nintendo gets only 20% of the market then Sony's 40% would mean that they'd be tied with MS, whcih means they would get plenty of games, and the games would simply be targetted at different game types and such.

Plus, there's the fact that if they got 40% market share, they would have huge Blu-Ray penetration in the home, and that's something that will benefit them a great deal in the long run. I think it's unfortunate that we have to pay that cost just to play certain games, but getting Blu-Ray into that many homes is going to be a very, very good thing for Sony if it works out that way.

I mean, that's what I got out of the article, at least. I think it's nonsensical to think that they don't actually care about market share because they won't sell consoles if they don't---they just don't care as long as it's in the acceptable range they're looking at.