Gates unmoved by motion sensing controllers

[BenN1ce]

Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/) has posted excerpts from an interview MTV had with Bill Gates (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151882.html) regarding the motion sensing controllers.

"It's tough because sometimes you move the controller, and you don't [mean] to fly into the ground. You just want to put the controller down," Gates told MTV News. "People aren't that good at totally standing still. Even pilots actually sit in a chair when they do their flying. So there's a lot to be learned about these controllers."

[SMES]

There are some clear challenges to making a game with the Wii. Obviously if every single movement is translated into an in game action, problems are going to come up where people get arthritis or carpul tunnel because they don't want to crash their virtual plane by putting the controller down. I agree with Gates that that would get old quick. Hopefully developers have more creativity than Gates gives them credit for.

[Abednigo]

He's just jealous that he didn't think of it first for the 360. ;) You know he's going to get a Wii just like everyone else.

[51|RandoM]

Yeah, Bill, I can see how that will be a big problem. :rolleyes:

Fortunately, I can count on Microsoft to invent the pause button, patent it, and then charge me a micropayment each time I attempt to use it. :(



If I were the richest man in the world, I wouldn't feel the need to open my mouth and let stupid shit fall out of it. :eek:

[TheHulk]

That's not stupid. It's a very valid point. As much as I'm digging the Wi, I can see how that could happen very often until the learning curve is mastered.

[51|RandoM]

That's not stupid. It's a very valid point. As much as I'm digging the Wi, I can see how that could happen very often until the learning curve is mastered.

I've got a bit of advice. If you need to set the controller down, pause your game first.

Now I know that pressing the pause button is a hard skill to master, one that not all gamers are capable of. I think you can do it, though, I really do.



This is just MS living up to their reputation as Master of FUD. Of course there will be a learning curve, there is with any controller that differs significantly from what you're used to. If you can't learn new tricks, stick with the 360, that is all he seems to be saying to me. :-)

[EternalGamer]

It's a problem that is easily solved by required the player to hold down a button to "toggle" the motion sensoring on for whatever action (or vice versa). There are many ways to address this issue. It seems like Gates is talking in the abstract w/o addressing the specific way it is being implemented, which means his statement is rather useless.

[Kelegacy]

Mark my words: The next Xbox system will have motion sensors. We know how Microsoft works...right Apple?

Someone get those guys at Google working on a system. Now THAT would be interesting.

[GunnyMo]

Kel, didn't MS already say they were working on some sort of motion sensing tech for the 360? Something similar to the Wii? Or maybe I'm just on crack.

[Kelegacy]

Kel, didn't MS already say they were working on some sort of motion sensing tech for the 360? Something similar to the Wii? Or maybe I'm just on crack.
I don't know, could be. I think J. Allard said he/they had the idea a long time ago, before he even heard of Nintendo's idea. I also thought of Viagra before it was invented, but I decided to let someone else do it.

Goddamn Pfizer stealing my shit.

[Wonka]

They have a point that they made a controller similar to this 8 years ago that nobody bought.

But that won't matter as soon as someone makes a great game that requires it.

I expect that MS will announce a motion sensing controller just as soon as there is a game selling well that can only be done with one.

[thefunmachine]

I don't know, could be. I think J. Allard said he/they had the idea a long time ago, before he even heard of Nintendo's idea. I also thought of Viagra before it was invented, but I decided to let someone else do it.

Goddamn Pfizer stealing my shit.

Yea they used some of the technolagy a few years ago on the sidewinder controller.
http://activewin.com/reviews/hardware/joysticks/microsoft/dual_strike/index.shtml

[ShooterMcgavin]

Mark my words: The next Xbox system will have motion sensors. We know how Microsoft works...right Apple?

Someone get those guys at Google working on a system. Now THAT would be interesting.

The Google video game console. Never misplace your games again.

[ÜberJumper]

The Dual Strike wasn't motion sensing.

[ElectricMonk]

They have a point that they made a controller similar to this 8 years ago that nobody bought.

But that won't matter as soon as someone makes a great game that requires it.

I expect that MS will announce a motion sensing controller just as soon as there is a game selling well that can only be done with one.

See that's not even necessary, you could get a lot of the functionality of the motion sensor as an add-on device for the controllers. (definately all of the functionality that the ps3 controller offers anyway).

also it's entirely possible the wii will go the way of the virtual boy or the power glove too.

[Wslove]

I've got a bit of advice. If you need to set the controller down, pause your game first.

Now I know that pressing the pause button is a hard skill to master, one that not all gamers are capable of. I think you can do it, though, I really do.



This is just MS living up to their reputation as Master of FUD. Of course there will be a learning curve, there is with any controller that differs significantly from what you're used to. If you can't learn new tricks, stick with the 360, that is all he seems to be saying to me. :-)

What he's talking about is how people will sometimes move the controller about when playing. Like twisting it up or down, left or right. Not as a matter of control, but just because they are in the game or that is the most comfortable position for the buttons they are pressing. People aren't static, they move around, and if the controller detects that movement it may yeild gameplay results that the user didn't want. I know I tilt my controller up when I lay back, but keep it level when I am leaning forward while playing. The Duel Shake (or whatever its called) would detect that movement and do crap I don't want it to do, which would piss me off if it cost me a life/match/whatever.

As for the supposed Microsoft version of this, I believe I heard they were using the camera for motion sensing. I saw something to that effect downstairs at E3, the booth was tucked away in the center of the hall and their demo units were showing off the camera but not the functionality of the software on the 360. However they had a video going, and it looked promising. Not Wii caliber, but way better then what the Eyetoy has been doing thus far.

[RMan]

Bill gates doesn't like the technology only his console doesn't have, I'm just shocked.

[Zechs01]

Is it just me or does it seem like *** is always trash talking?

[Johan]

Since hearing about the PS3 and Wii motion-sensitive controllers, I've wondered a similar thing as Gates; won't it be difficult to keep the controller still for extended periods of time so as not to adversely affect gameplay by inadvertent motions? I just see that as being a real negative to the experience...stiff necks, sore arms; trying to stay still is difficult and uncomfortable; I guess it all depends on the sensitivity of the motion-detection.

[Zechs01]

They could put a switch on it so you could shut off the motion sensor.

[RMan]

won't it be difficult to keep the controller still for extended periods of time so as not to adversely affect gameplay by inadvertent motions?
Yes, but as has been stated before, decent games will not require this. The thing Gates describes is clearly an effort to attack the concept, I’d love to know what game he’s describing that would require you to stand totally still (note, he contrasts it with a pilot’s ability to sit, so he expects that the game will require you to stand) and a situation where he would want to put the controller down and expect his avatar to fly correctly. I’m sure that if people hadn’t used a thumbstick trying to convince them that a thumbstick was better for a flight simulator than a motion controller they’d generally think you were nuts, and rightfully so. When the movement of the controller is part of the control, you will naturally treat it differently and not “put it down” like you would a traditional controller. Although there will be some getting used to, I’ve gotten used to plenty of complicated arcade games in their sub 30 second tutorials, so I don’t see how this is going to be a problem for the vast majority of players.

[theguido]

A company dislikes the product that a competing company is putting out. News at Eleven.

[Steele Johnson]

"I can't see what all the hoopla is about with the Wii controller. You flip your wrist left, you flip your wrist right, big deal! The xbox 360 is the king of all consoles!. Just wait until you see the lineup this summer!. All I can say is that given all the innovation with the controller, the reasonable price-point, and all the Mario games that we've all grown to love, the 360 will still be the true winner this time around."

ok.

[thenefariousone]

Actually, you're thinking of the sidewinder freestyle pro, not the dual strike. http://www.joystickreview.com/microsoft/sidewinderfreestylepro.asp

Yea they used some of the technolagy a few years ago on the sidewinder controller.
http://activewin.com/reviews/hardware/joysticks/microsoft/dual_strike/index.shtml

[Frogleg Special]

Gates, what about WinFS?

Stop bothering too much about Console Controller; X360 controller is just fine and ergonomic. Spend more time in polishing Vista before the launch becomes catastrophic.

[TDiddy]

Actually, you're thinking of the sidewinder freestyle pro, not the dual strike. http://www.joystickreview.com/microsoft/sidewinderfreestylepro.asp

Jesus... Can't thefunmachine research before posting. Maybe if he wasn't so busy trying to hunt down black cock he would look at what he links to.

[Riproar]

Gates has a valid point in that any game that requires a "return to center when let go of" function, like a joystick that automatically centers when released, is going to be much tougher when you have to level the controller and constantly center it physically.

If you have to "return to center" by perfectly balancing the Wii, it could actually be very strain-painful.

[thecrazyd]

Gates has a valid point in that any game that requires a "return to center when let go of" function, like a joystick that automatically centers when released, is going to be much tougher when you have to level the controller and constantly center it physically.

If you have to "return to center" by perfectly balancing the Wii, it could actually be very strain-painful.
So what you are saying is, if a shitty company made a shitty game with shitty controls, it could be hard to play. I do not think this speaks badly for the controller at all.

[51|RandoM]

So what you are saying is, if a shitty company made a shitty game with shitty controls, it could be hard to play. I do not think this speaks badly for the controller at all.

...and he'd definitely be speaking from experience.

[kathode]

So what you are saying is, if a shitty company made a shitty game with shitty controls, it could be hard to play. I do not think this speaks badly for the controller at all.

No, he's saying he doesn't see how return to center will work on the Wii, which seems to be a valid point. I don't know that every game requires it, but there are definitely edge cases that anyone can see where how this controller will function is a big question mark. The need to put it down once in a while is a clear example. The seeming lack of the sensor bar to deal with oversized screens and projectors is another. These may be solved problems, but pointing them out shouldn't cause people to instantly man the ramparts. The truth is that there's still a lot of questions about it, and as he says "a lot to be learned."

[Samo Umer]

heh... billyboy the king of "mainstream". Even in 1994 the web was not "mainstream", but when it became "mainstream", then they've put a "contract" on Netscape and it had to go...

[OUX]

I have to say that I will be mighty pissed off when after sinking 8 hours of my life into an intense action game and I am about to destory the final planet enslaver to free Urlok 10 the emotion is high my reactions are that of a speed addicted cat and then......I sneeze.........boom I'm dead

[Serapth]

heh... billyboy the king of "mainstream". Even in 1994 the web was not "mainstream", but when it became "mainstream", then they've put a "contract" on Netscape and it had to go...


Translation... when Microsoft misses a trend they can make up for it pretty damned fast.

Veiled compliment?

[RMan]

No, he's saying he doesn't see how return to center will work on the Wii, which seems to be a valid point.
FYI, he's not talking about the Wii, if only the Wii had motion sensing controllers I seriously doubt you'd hear this. Anyway, as other have stated, it's a valid point for a poorly developed game. I'm sure with any controller if you imagine how it can suck in a game you can come up with some pretty creative things, but game developers thankfully don't torpedo their own products like their competition does. I'd say wait until you see a game exhibiting this issue then complain about it, because this is not even remotely a problem for a well developed game. For instance, in the example he talked about you don’t need a return to center or perfect accuracy from the player, just reasonable thresholds that make up for the common player’s lack of accuracy.

When making a gun based shooter if I choose to complain that a player will not have the accuracy to shoot a single pixel on the screen for extended periods of time, that does make the experience and thus the controller seem bad, but as we know now that’s just an overly negative assumption about how a game will be developed.

[Samo Umer]

Translation... when Microsoft misses a trend they can make up for it pretty damned fast.

Veiled compliment?


Err... No. It's merely a reminder how microsoft has a habit of squashing real innovation and imposing itself at our expense. but hey, it's just capitalism. The worst kind of people doing the worst kind of things out the worst impulses for the benefit of us all. Only your wallet has voting rights in the matter.


When you cuddle you x360 to sleep tonight, give her my share kisses and huggs ...

[Jack B]

Mark my words: The next Xbox system will have motion sensors. We know how Microsoft works...right Apple?

Someone get those guys at Google working on a system. Now THAT would be interesting.

Yeah, I'd agree Microsoft has done more than their fair share of copying, although I believe Xerox Parc invented the graphical icon based UI, not Apple.

Apple and Microsoft copied Xerox Parc. Apple also grabbed the mouse and some other ideas from Parc as well. I think the Laserwriter too, but someone correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a while.

Accidental Empires, by Richard Cringley has some great stories about Apple, Microsoft, Lotus, etc, in the early days.

Some of Apples best "innovations" came from Steve Jobs experience working at Xerox, but to give credit where credit is due, Apple has innovated often since those early days