Thief Deadly Shadows in 1:31:15

[Liquidize105]

Forum fights have erupted from the issue of speed-running in a game that was never meant to be speed-ran, sped-run, whatever, done fast.

Declared as the "antithesis" of the intended experience by some - it's a hour-and-half long run-through (http://speeddemosarchive.com/Thief3.html) of Thief: Deadly Shadows, at mach speed.

Thief is a moderately-paced sneaker with a strong emphasis on shadow-hugging - hence the reason for the outcry. But really now, it's not up to me or anyone else to judge how people choose to play their games. It is entertaining for sure, as the runner pulls off several neat tricks along the way. I'd recommend this to those who have played and those who plan to never play.

Here's a nice Thief art for you.



http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/3966/thief3012of.th.jpg (http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/3966/thief3012of.jpg)

[Xaerin]

What are the fights about? Does he use hacks or something? Who decides whether a game is "meant" to be speed-ran?

It's not some ancient mystic ritual with set laws or anything...

I'd be downloading now but the site seems to have died. edit:yeh ok, working now

[Varsity]

Speed run videos are fun enough (nothing like hearing a rebel call out "Dr. Freeman! Wait!" as the player bunnyhops past them at 500mp/h), but the downloads have always put me off. If they split them into manageable chunks, that would be great.

[Liquidize105]

What are the fights about? Does he use hacks or something? Who decides whether a game is "meant" to be speed-ran?

It's not some ancient mystic ritual with set laws or anything...

I'd be downloading now but the site seems to have died.
Thief is a stealth game, a first-person sneaker. Stealth games are typically not meant to be played like this.

The site's fine, check your browser.

[John Mirra]

Speed run videos are fun enough (nothing like hearing a rebel call out "Dr. Freeman! Wait!" as the player bunnyhops past them at 500mp/h), but the downloads have always put me off. If they split them into manageable chunks, that would be great.

How convenient. That's exactly what that site does.

[jervo]

As long as somebody had fun playing this game.

[thecrazyd]

How weird. I just started playing this game again.

[Xaerin]

Thief is a stealth game, a first-person sneaker. Stealth games are typically not meant to be played like this.

The site's fine, check your browser.

I wouldn't consider any game meant to be played like this. I mean, how can you possibly enjoy it and take in everything there is to see and do if you're only objective is to get to the end.

Speed runs are for people who have already completed the game, usually multiple times so that they are intimately familiar with it, and want to achieve the feat of being the fastest.

With that in mind I don't see why you would limit it to any genre, regardless of how it was intended to be played.

[evilgoodwin]

It's not like this is the speed runner's first playthrough of the game. Most people who do speed runs have spent a good amount of time playing the games and the speed run is just another one of their playthroughs. They've already gotten the whole experience of the game, they just want to see how fast they can do it now. The game wasn't meant to be speed-ran? Who cares? Just because people say a game is supposed to be played a certain way doesn't mean it has to happen all the time by everyone.

[Liquidize105]

I wouldn't consider any game meant to be played like this. I mean, how can you possibly enjoy it and take in everything there is to see and do if you're only objective is to get to the end.

Speed runs are for people who have already completed the game, usually multiple times so that they are intimately familiar with it, and want to achieve the feat of being the fastest.

With that in mind I don't see why you would limit it to any genre, regardless of how it was intended to be played.
I'm not arguing with you.

I have a history of playing games my way.

[Adam Blue]

The devs should have made it impossible to be done that way.

[jeffbax]

God I wish they would use torrents instead of 90 billion files.

[zipR]

I'm just playing DS for the first time now. So far, so good (I just finished the Pagan's hideout, or whatever it's called). I'm having more fun playing this than I am Oblivion right at the moment (I picked up both at the same time.)

[thecrazyd]

The devs should have made it impossible to be done that way.
The devs should have made impossible to have fun.

[Skjef]

The devs should have made it impossible to be done that way.They should have diverted development resources to keeping people from speed-running their game?

That's a pretty stupid sentiment. Is there any harm from speed-running the game?

[The-Builder]

With the amounts of flashbombs and other gadgets, it's rather easy to just run through most of the maps taking out the guards as/if needed. Or just leaving them be, seing how garret runs at mach speed infinitly, while guards gets winded after a short while. If you just played enough to know the location of all the loot a speed run probaly isn't that hard. (I haven't watched it, not sure if he even has time to go shopping)

[AntB]

The devs should have made it impossible to be done that way.

Yes, RESTRICT freedom in a game I bought. Good jorb.

[AversionFX]

Yes, RESTRICT freedom in a game I bought. Good jorb.


I say ya did a great jaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeerrrrb.

[ElectricMonk]

If anything, speed-runs in games that aren't designed to be played like that are even more enjoyable (morrowind in 15 minutes anyone?)

[Mason]

Thief is a stealth game, a first-person sneaker. Stealth games are typically not meant to be played like this.
No game is meant for speed runs, they're a meta-game with rules external to the game itself.

And if anything, the methodical nature of Thief makes it great material for a speed run, since there are so many game mechanics in place to inhibit that sort of behavior. Outsmarting games is more interesting than just running segments quickly.

[askheaves]

This is a hell of a lot better than holding out to see who can take the LONGEST to beat the game.

[Kagger]

There's a pretty interesting group out there that does ultimate run throughs. They use glitches that are built into the game, and use a computer to enter the button cominbations. No cheat devices like game genie, just the moves are set in so they are executed perfectly. Seeing Mario 64 in 16 minutes was pretty interesting.

[Metal Jesus]

How weird. I just started playing this game again.

Me too. I love the Thief games and Deadly Shadows isn't as bad as some people would have you believe.

[dena miscreant]

There's a pretty interesting group out there that does ultimate run throughs. They use glitches that are built into the game, and use a computer to enter the button cominbations. No cheat devices like game genie, just the moves are set in so they are executed perfectly. Seeing Mario 64 in 16 minutes was pretty interesting.

You mean they make codes that do ultimate run-throughs when run on a computer, not they, themselves, do ultimate run-throughs.

I'd still like to see this.

[dena miscreant]

I just found Mario 64 in 16 minutes. Quite interesting...

Who knew there were so many exploits in this game?

[Spigot]

Me too. I love the Thief games and Deadly Shadows isn't as bad as some people would have you believe.
Aye. Deadly Shadows suffered from the City hub level and having the levels broken into multiple areas. If you played it on the PC and installed the high texture files and the tweaks that got rid of the annoying blue glow on treasures and doors it was great. The faction system was pretty cool (it's nice to be able to walk through Hammerite facilities later on and not have them attack you on site) and the game sports the BEST scary level of all time... Shalebridge Cradle.

I do wish they'd left Deadly Shadows with the standalone level system of the previous two games as the lengthy load times and constant backtracking in the City hub got rather annoying when I played through it. It would have also been nice if they'd axed the pseudo-in-game cutscenes and stuck with the awesome 2D cutscenes from the previous games. Thankfully they do have some great 2D cutscenes but those 3D "in-game" ones were icky.

Great story and the missions themselves are a lot of fun though. Plus it ties up the trilogy nicely.

All that said, while I think that doing a speed-run of a Thief game is a heresy, but it is neat to see it done. I can't think of a game that is further removed from the mentality of the speed-run. At least it didn't take them 18 minutes to beat it. I'd cry then.

[thecrazyd]

All that said, while I think that doing a speed-run of a Thief game is a heresy, but it is neat to see it done. I can't think of a game that is further removed from the mentality of the speed-run. At least it didn't take them 18 minutes to beat it. I'd cry then.
It did take them 18 minutes. The rest is load times.

[Xaerin]

^hah, harsh.

Have to agree with Spigot, Shalebridge is right up there with SS2 and that haunted mansion in Vampire: Bloodlines which I can remember specifically cause I was playing it and completed it shortly before completing DS. Good times.

[Jonathan]

No game is meant for speed runs, they're a meta-game with rules external to the game itself.


*cough* Metroid *cough*

[Kagger]

You mean they make codes that do ultimate run-throughs when run on a computer, not they, themselves, do ultimate run-throughs.

I'd still like to see this.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6493722340610946105&q=super+mario+64

They are referred to as tool assisted videos. The google link has a link to the site that explains it.

[DirtyChimp]

if any of you have played Super Smash Bros, check out the videos have for that. it's insane

[Spigot]

It did take them 18 minutes. The rest is load times.
Too true...

[Johan]

If anything, speed-runs in games that aren't designed to be played like that are even more enjoyable (morrowind in 15 minutes anyone?)

:eek: 15...for Morrowind, we need at least, oh, 30 ;) Actually, Morrowind aside, a speed run sounds kind of fun for a whole lot of other games...I'll bet 360 achievement-point whores are going to be gunning through a few games themselves!!! I've found myself doing that on my second run through GRAW to get the second set of achievement points...though not professionally fast.

[Chameleo]

the only people who do speed runs are people who have finished a game 'the way it was meant to be played' multiple times and know the game inside and out. doing it is not disrespectful to the devs, more like homage to them. showing them how well they know their game, and how much time they've put into it.

that mario speedrun was fun to watch.

[Varsity]

How convenient. That's exactly what that site does.
Er, no it doesn't.

[MachDelta]

Er, no it doesn't.
Sure it does :) (http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?Thief3_100p_13115)

[Varsity]

That's the same file at different resolutions, not one file split into parts. :p

[Skjef]

That's the same file at different resolutions, not one file split into parts. :pDid you try clicking on any of them? They're javascript links that expand into many, many parts.

Alternatively, the FTP link for the split files is here (ftp://ia301228.us.archive.org/1/items/Thief3_100p_13115/).

[dead]

wait... how is this news?

[Stormwatcher]

Of course it's news. It's somthing that happened and has relations to games. sheesh.

[Subbacultcha]

wait... how is this news?

You idiot.

[YoungAlCapone]

I'll check it out when I get home.

I love the Thief games, and while deadly shadows was not the best of the three, it is still a great game as far as I am concerned.