HDMI No Longer Required for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray?

[bapenguin]

GamesIndustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17211) has an article up detailing a purposed delay in the ICT copy protection in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media.

The move would mean that all movie content produced until 2010 at the earliest, and possibly as far as 2012, will not carry the Image Constraint Token - a security feature which would restrict high-definition playback only to equipment with HDMI ports and HDCP encryption.The deal has been widely rumoured in technology circles for some time, but further confirmation is offered by the Der Spiegel article - and at a crucial time for Sony and Microsoft, both of whom are set to launch high definition DVD offerings in the coming six months which will lack HDMI ports and HDCP functionality.
Awesome news. If this is true, I have to give props to the movie studios. It's always been my opinion that the whole reason they were pushing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray was because they wanted stricter copy protection. If they really do agree to delay it for 4 or more years it's a stride in the right direction.

[darkwarrior]

How is it awesome? It's only delaying the further restriction of fair use rights. Just stops you having to shell out a fortune right now for new appliances.

[Dr.Finger]

I'm going to disagree with you Bap, this is still a bad thing. They drop the flag for now as an inducement for people to buy, but in 2012, when there are going to be a hell of a lot more Hi-Def players, it suddenly comes into effect? That's bait and switch.

[Johan]

Perhaps they're trying to broaden acceptance to countries not on board yet with the encryption format? It's my understanding that Canada and many other nations are not on board, which means piracy could more easily become rampant when the HDCP encryption is broken, which is inevitable....of course, even if most nations are on board, piracy will still occur; like the little Dutch boy trying to plug the dam with his finger, it will eventually overwhelm and get through.

[askheaves]

That is pretty fantastic news for the consumer. I still agree that a good chunk of the reason for going to the new format has been the copy protection, and with that gone, I wonder what the impact will be on the incentive for media companies to produce the more expensive discs. I'm guessing that it may translate to higher prices for the higher quality discs, but I'm also guessing that was to be expected anyway.

It may also mean that the media groups are starting to realize that people don't like paying more for content restriction and it could seriously delay the move to the new formats. From what I understand, HDMI isn't even a finalized spec yet, much less has a huge install base or even a large group of people who know what it is. This is another hurdle in wide adoption which could leave people waiting for "The Next Big Thing."

[Serapth]

It's good news as far as gaming systems go. Its nice to see that in the transition both HDDVD(MS) and BluRay(Sony) arent going to require a stupid HDMI hookup. It will go a long way towards helping with earlier adoption and by the time ICT comes into effect vastly superior standalone players will probrably be alot cheaper. That is good.

The fact it is still going to come into effect, that is bad. It still means millions of recent HDTV purchasers are gonna get screwed, just screwed at a later date. This is especially true of early ( non LCD/Plasma ) HDTV owners. When I buy a TV, its not something I intend to upgrade for many many years, like 15+. So when a pending standard threatens my purchase, I would tend to get pissed off, especially after dropping a few grand on the TV. That said, lucky enough I was aware of HDCP/HDMI issues when buying my TV a few years back and made sure to get one supporting HDMI, so myself, Im not gonna be screwed, but I do feel bad for all the other people that are, especially people that bought in the last year or two. No way a 2000$ purchase of a TV should be obsoleted in 6 or 7 years time!

[bapenguin]

I'm going to disagree with you Bap, this is still a bad thing. They drop the flag for now as an inducement for people to buy, but in 2012, when there are going to be a hell of a lot more Hi-Def players, it suddenly comes into effect? That's bait and switch.

As long as they educate people on what's going to happen and the plan for it. On top of that, in 4 years there will be quite a bit more HDCP compliant products on the market. It's a lot better than what we were going to get.

[Deadend]

This is still crap.

Fuck them, I am not buying in. HDMI and HDCP is a horrible idea. Fuck Microsoft, Fuck Sony, Fuck Every Company that is giving into this shit. Fuck the movie studios for this horrible idea. Oh and fuck you guys for thinking it's not so bad.

[Taco]

I'm way too cynical for this.

[Johan]

This is still crap.

Fuck them, I am not buying in. HDMI and HDCP is a horrible idea. Fuck Microsoft, Fuck Sony, Fuck Every Company that is giving into this shit. Fuck the movie studios for this horrible idea. Oh and fuck you guys for thinking it's not so bad.

So, let me see if I'm understanding you.....#$%$#@#$% everyone? :eek: Does this count as trolling? I'm new, and his post sounds like trolling; let me know and set me straight.

[Eran Hawke]

This isn't 4 years away, it is 3.5 years away, only 3 years if you consider when the PS3 launches.

I want my console to last longer than 3 years, especially when it costs $500!

The whole HDMI / HDCP thing is a scam, a power-grab by the movie industry. I'm not buying anything with HDCP, ever.

[Vandenh]

And anybody believes this??? The day there are enough players and one format has won, on goes the HDMI flag!

> I'm not buying anything with HDCP, ever.

Same here!

I have never bought a CD with any copy protection and I will never buy this DRM restricted HD junk.

[Nath5000]

Anyone tie the 360 into this yet? I think this sucks because it means that Microsoft wont have to release an HDMI cable for the 360 and will never release anything with digital output which can be much clearer than component and have more accurate color than VGA...

If microsoft isnt forced to make the 360 HDMI will they ever even do it at all?

[Deadend]

So, let me see if I'm understanding you.....#$%$#@#$% everyone? :eek: Does this count as trolling? I'm new, and his post sounds like trolling; let me know and set me straight.

Do you think that HDCP is a great idea and that image downgrading is good?
Then it's at you. Otherwise I am cool.

I also do and say what I want, right now due to being drunk and angry in the early afternoon.

[Johan]

Do you think that HDCP is a great idea and that image downgrading is good?
Then it's at you. Otherwise I am cool.

I also do and say what I want, right now due to being drunk and angry in the early afternoon.

My response has nothing to do with your problem with HDCP and/or formats/encryption technologies; I don't like them either...I'm just trying to figure out why that couldn't be said without baiting anyone/everyone with insults. I think you've helped answer my question, though...you're trolling.

[ShooterMcgavin]

Does HDMI offer higher image quality than anything else? If all it does is allow for encryption, I can see people's issues clear as day. But if it offers higher image quality, then it doesn't sound like that big of an issue to me.

[Beelzebud]

Bait and switch.

Buy now, and buy later.

Quit being so damn naive. They aren't doing this because they love us, the consumer. They're doing this to fuck the consumer in the ass 6 years from now, when early adopters have to re-buy all this shit again.

It's not hard to see why the get away with shit like this.

[Goronmon]

I made sure my HDTV had an HDMI input just in-case...

[Norse]

I still believe ICT will be activated as soon as Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movies are available for illegal downloading.

[benig]

You know, right now, piracy of HD DVDs isn't even practical. They're impossibly huge.

[Roc Ingersol]

Junking ICT would be good news.
Delaying it only reinforces the idea that these new formats are DRM trojans.

[Qoz]

The image quality is improved due to the signal being purely digital.
edit: and higher res offcourse.
I'm not at least surprised at how they "delayed" this feature. Was there ever a date decided?

Offcourse they will not make a decision that will pissoff alot of legitimate buyers. We are being forced though, to buy some hardware (extra price) to enable the industry to control content down the line. And they can dictate this to the manufacturers because they control content.

I can't seem to follow the "PS3 with no HDMI" problem. When they enable this DRM the HD players with HDMI will be close to 50$. So buy a new one!

They will enable the feature, when the estimated extra profits (due to the DRM) exceed the losses they will receive from people not buying (due to being pissed off or having non-compatible screens and players).

4 years sound like a good timeframe. They run the risk of the DRM being hacked to pieces, before even being activated.

[Deadend]

I am going to wait for ICT and the HDCP and all the encryption they are throwing out there to be cracked, then I will buy an open player from a store in Hong Kong.

[crashedout]

Just cause you have HDMI now does not mean it will work in three years when they decide to require it. We are at 1.1, 1.3 is on the drawing board...in three years we could have 2.0.

[Roc Ingersol]

The image quality is improved due to the signal being purely digital.
DVI has exactly the same video encoding. Literally.

And they forced HDCP upon that, to make sure their DRM mits muddied everything good and pure.

There's simply no advantage to HDCP for consumers. and without HDCP, HDMI is just DVI + digital audio on one plug.

every so slightly more convenient for the lay man - but 0 improvement in quality.

(it saves an extra second each time you plug something in. but anyone who'd care about 1080p vs 1080i is going to have audio going to the 5.1 receiver, so they'll wind up keeping the digital audio wire anyway.)

[theguido]

I thought I remember hearing this before, but I guess not.

Good to hear though again because should I ever get a PS3 it'll be the $500 version anyways.

[Dr.Finger]

You know, right now, piracy of HD DVDs isn't even practical. They're impossibly huge.
When they came out neither the CD or the DVD were easily pirateable. Now I can get just about every major label CD from the past decade in less than an hour. Hi Def piracy may not be practical now, but by the start of the next decade it will be everywhere.

[bean19]

It's also kind of silly. . . Who wants to buy a movie player that has a life-span of 3 years and 1 month?

My guess is that movie sellers will just not use the copy-protection associated with these at that point. They'll get a document saying that 50% of customers wouldn't be able to play their DVD if they ship it with copy-protection and they'll decide the lost sales aren't worth the "loss" associated with piracy.

[antoniogaud]

I'm still in the 'I dont see the need for HD-DVD or BLURAY' yet camp. I compared my Batman Begins DVD to the cable broadcast version of Batman Begins at 1080i and, while I think I could tell the difference, it wasn't at all as obvious as DVD was to VHS.

[theguido]

I'm still in the 'I dont see the need for HD-DVD or BLURAY' yet camp. I compared my Batman Begins DVD to the cable broadcast version of Batman Begins at 1080i and, while I think I could tell the difference, it wasn't at all as obvious as DVD was to VHS.

Well, it's definitely not a need thing, but if Blu-Ray does catch on and lowers in price by a decent amount, it will make collecting and watching TV series much more convenient because of the storage space. Of course, we're a long way from that being an issue .

[DoubleUranium]

Good news! I'm putting off fucking you in the ass until 2010! Enjoy your carefree years until then but don't throw away that bottle of lube just yet.

I fail to see how this is good news for anyone. People who don't have HDMI on their HDTV sets now aren't going to have them in 2010. Who buys a new TV every 3 years? This is them just blatantly saying they're going to wait until you've invested in the format before they turn the screws and you'll be forced to go along with their bullshit ICT flag, forfeiting all of your fair use rights because of the DMCA.
Note that this isn't even a legally binding agreement. It's just a behind closed doors handshake deal between content producers. They can change their mind next week and you've got no redress. I don't know why some of you bright people are falling for this bullshit.

[Qoz]

DVI has exactly the same video encoding. Literally.
True.
The only positive things about HDMI is the fact, that you have both audio and video and the plug is smaller/compact.

A HDMI cable seems to reach a bit further than DVI without distorting. I was looking into buying one for my projector.
I have no idea why, but if you buy a HDMI cable with a DVI -> HDMI adapter, then you get the length-limitations of DVI (5-10m max). But if it is pure HDMI, then you can reach 20m with a good cable. Anybody know why? Perhaps the signal strength standard or something? Seem weird, as the signal is pure digital in both cases.

[ruceree88]

As long as I can still burn and return with Netflix.

DRM can kiss my ass. It should kiss yours too if you care about how you use the product you own.

[51|RandoM]

If this is true, I have to give props to the movie studios. It's always been my opinion that the whole reason they were pushing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray was because they wanted stricter copy protection. If they really do agree to delay it for 4 or more years it's a stride in the right direction.[/i]

Stronger copy protection was just icing on the cake. The cake itself was the chance to resell their catalog to people who'd already bought it on DVD. That is also why you see so many "special editions" and why they never come out same time as the normal edition.

If this deal actually goes through, I'll consider it a pretty good sign that ICT is never going to be an issue, which is what I've suspected from day one.

[Yeti2005]

That's good news for me. I bought a HDTV a few years back and I'm not planning on upgrading for a few more years. Pretty much all of the new HDTVs have HDMI so it's not screwing anyone going forward.

[Mr. Crowley]

There's no avoiding HDMI. Almost every HDTV, DVD player or receiver either has or will have this connection. Get used to it.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

The 2012 date isn't a coincidence -- the ICT is illegal in Japan until 2011. Copy protection isn't too useful if it can't be enforced uniformly, so there's not much incentive to bother with the ICT outside of Japan either. If 2011 comes and the law is changed to allow forced downrezzing, expect the studios to start using the ICT immediately. That said, I'm pretty sure AACS and HDCP will be cracked by then, so it won't really matter.

(Incidentally, HDMI will still be required for 1080p -- the AACS spec doesn't allow 1080p over component with or without the ICT.)

[Serapth]

True.
The only positive things about HDMI is the fact, that you have both audio and video and the plug is smaller/compact.

A HDMI cable seems to reach a bit further than DVI without distorting. I was looking into buying one for my projector.
I have no idea why, but if you buy a HDMI cable with a DVI -> HDMI adapter, then you get the length-limitations of DVI (5-10m max). But if it is pure HDMI, then you can reach 20m with a good cable. Anybody know why? Perhaps the signal strength standard or something? Seem weird, as the signal is pure digital in both cases.


I believe HDMI in addition to being able to carry an audio signal also has more bandwidth available then DVI. That said, without a use for that bandwidth who gives a damn.

[laggerific]

So, let me see if I'm understanding you.....#$%$#@#$% everyone? :eek: Does this count as trolling? I'm new, and his post sounds like trolling; let me know and set me straight.


Could it be someone that is just fed up with this bullshit? We all know that this stuff does more to harm the consumer than any number of pirates.

I say we treat HDCP like Starforce!

[Taco]

Or maybe DIVX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX) (not the compression).

In the end it doesn't matter. Someone will crack it.

[MojoJojo]

The only positive things about HDMI is the fact, that you have both audio and video and the plug is smaller/compact.
This? This is the only reason I'd use/want HDMI instead of component. I just hate chasing cables enough to pay $40 more for the cable. Otherwise, I can't tell the fuckin difference.

[Paranoia]

Stupid IMHO. Screw the next-gen format. I'll stick to DVD/DivX/Xvid until the ridiculous content protection is scrapped.

[Achilles]

Correction: They seem to really have no choice but to delay the feature. It seems security in HDDVD may be delayed as well for the same reason.As long as I can still burn and return with Netflix.

DRM can kiss my ass. It should kiss yours too if you care about how you use the product you own.So you rent movies, burn them, and return them, and if I cared about what I owned, I would want to be able to do that too. Right. I buy the products I want to own, thanks.

[51|RandoM]

There's no avoiding HDMI. Almost every HDTV, DVD player or receiver either has or will have this connection. Get used to it.

It isn't HDMI that people wish to avoid, it is HDCP. I'd love to be able to use just HDMI for all of my AV IO, honestly. Better yet, screw all of this and lets just make all these devices networkable, toss out the receivers and replace them with a network switch.

[Johan]

Could it be someone that is just fed up with this bullshit? We all know that this stuff does more to harm the consumer than any number of pirates.

Perhaps so...but his response spelled it out for me quite nicely; drunk and angry, trolling for conflict.

And yes...HDCP and copy-protection schemes suck, but are inevitable...doesn't make it better. Easy to avoid for me, however. I won't be buying a PS3, and I don't buy movies, so I'm set.

[Zeal]

I'm not sure component even has enough bandwith to support 1080p. I don't think it does.

[Goronmon]

I'm not sure component even has enough bandwith to support 1080p. I don't think it does.AFAIK, you can do it, it just won't look as good.