Zelda: Twilight Realm’s New Look

[score]

From 4 Color Rebellion (http://www.4colorrebellion.com) :



Word has been spreading that the twilight realm in Twilight Princess has received a visual overhaul. Back when the game was first shown we saw a stark, black and white monotone world punctuated by the occasional hint of color from Link in wolf form, Midna or an enemy.

Now, the world sports a much different visual style. When transported to the twilight realm you will find yourself in a hazy area with over-saturated colors and blown-out lighting.

When Twilight Princess was first displayed I was ecstatic to see them trying something new with the alternate realm. The contrasty black & white definitely created a moody atmosphere and distinctly separated the two worlds. However, the development team found that playing in the area too long was depressing and boring.



Read More (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/05/22/twilight-realms-new-look/)

I just saw the official E3 2K6 trailer for Zelda:TP. Best Zelda evar?

[Savok]

I prefer the old look, but this does fit in more with Nintendo's "I just did 4 tabs of acid" image.

[Rirath]

At least it's not WindWaker.

But come on folks, can't we save the 'best zelda evar' until we've actually played it?

However, the development team found that playing in the area too long was depressing and boring.

Very true, and something so many game makers need to learn. Guild Wars has a BEAUTIFUL starting area, but then BAM, you're in the middle of boring muddy brown textures for the next several days of playing.

[bapenguin]

The original will always be the best Zelda ever.

[Savok]

Very true, and something so many game makers need to learn. Guild Wars has a BEAUTIFUL starting area, but then BAM, you're in the middle of boring muddy brown textures for the next several days of playing.
Also thinking of Metroid Prime 2. I could never finish the game, the dark world was just that, dark, it was dark angled, dark round, dark glowing, never anything but dark, it was maddening.

[EvilBob46]

I prefer the old look, but this does fit in more with Nintendo's "I just did 4 tabs of acid" image.

Personally, the Black and White look of the twilight realm was my one and only problem with the game. Yeah, it looks cool, but imagine playing in it for hours on end. I agree with the decision to beef it up.

[AniAko]

I just saw the official E3 2K6 trailer for Zelda:TP. Best Zelda evar?

That's hard to say. When LOZ A Link to the Past came out, it was sought after as the best Zelda ever. Then when Ocarina of Time came out, it exploded onto the scene, so much it was #1 of EGMs top 100 games of the century. THEN there was WindWaker, which is felt by some to be the best Zelda ever. Now we have The Twilight Princess. Will this be the best Zelda ever? Or is this everyone's hype?

When I played WindWaker, the story was COMPLETELY captivating. In so far that I played it non-stop even through a migraine holding an icepack on my head with my head tilted on it's side. But there was a hole in the story in the intro.

They mention when the people of Hyrule seek the return of the Hero, he doesn't come back, and the King creates the waterworld we know from the story. WHAT happened to Link?

In order for this to be the best Zelda ever, they need the best graphx, the best sound, the best gameplay, and most importantly the best story. I feel the only way the story can get any better is for Link himself to make the ultimate sacrifice, and in a clash of magic, fire and metal Link dies in his conquest to overthrow Gannon. His death would be one of the most powerful shockwaves in the gaming industry, so powerful it might even start some crazy sub-culture, like Zelda mourners to honor the death of Link every year. Not that I want the greatest hero of all time to come to his demise, I just want a story so gripping and powerful it marks a date in history, something I'll never forget.

[shnastybiznastic]

At least it's not WindWaker.
I dunno, it looks to have more in common with windwaker than any other 3d zelda. Distinct visual style that relies on saturated colors, tons of cell shading, and using body deformation to defeat The Uncanny Valley.

[shnastybiznastic]

They mention when the people of Hyrule seek the return of the Hero,
<snip>
I just want a story so gripping and powerful it marks a date in history, something I'll never forget.
You do know that they are different Links, right?

One of the head Zelda guys said in an interview recently that Link is supposed to be an everyman, that's why he has no voice overs. He also alluded to link just being a guy who puts on the mantle of a hero, implying that only the first link is the actual hero.

[Groo]

The new Twilight Realm looks like Okami.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Yeah I'm repeating others here now but Link already HAS died. Many times over. The timeline is a mess if you try and ascribe every game the same link, and as Aonuma said in an interview before wind waker came out, there are many links. It's sort of like a spirit that is passed on through the ages. That's why in the WW opening it says "the hero did not return", as there was no incarnate of link at that time.

I mean in Wind Waker you see he's just a small island boy until he gets his "coming of age" costume and gets geared up.

Although, as you say, a Link dying in battle against Ganon would be pretty freaking huge, as opposed to natural causes.

[AniAko]

You do know that they are different Links, right?

One of the head Zelda guys said in an interview recently that Link is supposed to be an everyman, that's why he has no voice overs. He also alluded to link just being a guy who puts on the mantle of a hero, implying that only the first link is the actual hero.

I know they're different links, and that's a hole in the story, I want to know WHY the original didn't return when Gannon came back...

There is more than a corralation b/w all the links and it's not that difficult to draw a story line. Albeit not all the games fit, but you CAN take a bunch of them and string them together, which takes you through a complete story of a hero.

For example:
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask -> The Legend of Zelda -> Link's Awakening -> ??? <Big gap in timeline> -> WindWaker.

I've researched the timeline a bit, and a good amount of people find Link's Awakening to be the final chapter, followed by his death, and legend of his return. In WindWaker, they depict the "hero" as someone who has already banished the evil from Hyrule, and saying he doesn't return gives Nintendo room to breath and be creative in their story lines, but ultimately that hero has to disappear, and I want to hear the story of how that happens.

The single thing I like about Zelda is how the story lines fit. It's a loose fit, but unlike some FF titles, you can have more ties than a stupid Chobocco being in every game. (I do like that fact that SOME FF are returning to popular storylines)

[Deadend]

The new Twilight Realm looks like Okami.

Yes, I am getting that Okami vibe as well, funky colors... wolf... ZOMG! NINTENDO IS RIPPING OF ZE CAPCOM!

Well, not really, even though it does look similar to Okami, which is a good thing.
Now, when there are 5 wolf based combat games next year...

[Savok]

I know they're different links, and that's a hole in the story, I want to know WHY the original didn't return when Gannon came back...

There is more than a corralation b/w all the links and it's not that difficult to draw a story line. Albeit not all the games fit, but you CAN take a bunch of them and string them together, which takes you through a complete story of a hero.

For example:
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask -> The Legend of Zelda -> Link's Awakening -> ??? <Big gap in timeline> -> WindWaker.

I've researched the timeline a bit, and a good amount of people find Link's Awakening to be the final chapter, followed by his death, and legend of his return. In WindWaker, they depict the "hero" as someone who has already banished the evil from Hyrule, and saying he doesn't return gives Nintendo room to breath and be creative in their story lines, but ultimately that hero has to disappear, and I want to hear the story of how that happens.

The single thing I like about Zelda is how the story lines fit. It's a loose fit, but unlike some FF titles, you can have more ties than a stupid Chobocco being in every game. (I do like that fact that SOME FF are returning to popular storylines)
That's a fair point, a Link appeared every other time, what happened to make a Link not appear then

[shnastybiznastic]

Albeit not all the games fit, but you CAN take a bunch of them and string them together, which takes you through a complete story of a hero.
I'm sure you can stich them together into some hulking automaton of a story that makes you feel good, but it's not there in the games.

So lets break it down by games which we know are connected. The Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link are certianly connected, it says to in AoL's manual. So that's one Link, lets call him Link(a). A Link to the Past takes place generations before the NES games, the promo materials say so, as does the japanese box, however the official website for Link's Awakening states that it is a direct sequel to ALttP. We can call this one Link(b). The Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask games are definitley connected, so that's Link(c). The two Oracle games are connected, so that's Link(d). Before Minish cap came out, Four Swords was supposed to be the "oldest tale" and it's Link and Zelda seem to meet for the first time, plus Four Swords Adventures is supposed to take place after that, and with the benifit of the doubt, that's Link(e). Minish Cap seems to stand on it's own, and takes place before the Four Swords games, so that's Link(f). Wind Waker is also chronologically isolated, so that's Link(g).

Now which of those Links is the one you want to die?

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

I know they're different links, and that's a hole in the story, I want to know WHY the original didn't return when Gannon came back...


One popular theory is that he never returned to Hyrule from Termina, where Majora's Mask was set. He finds what he's looking for in Termina by the end of the game but there is never any strict confirmation that he returned to Hyrule. The way that the Wind Waker opening is phrased, talking as if he really did disappear off the face of the planet, fits quite well with this I think.

[AniAko]

One popular theory is that he never returned to Hyrule from Termina, where Majora's Mask was set. He finds what he's looking for in Termina by the end of the game but there is never any strict confirmation that he returned to Hyrule. The way that the Wind Waker opening is phrased, talking as if he really did disappear off the face of the planet, fits quite well with this I think.

I agree, that very well could be the conclusion, and it makes total sense. There's many other paths as well. I still would like for Nintendo to produce exactly what path Link took.

Either way I want my glorious, emotion filled battle, full of blood sweat and tears, and the an ultimate showing of Link's valor. He lives a hero's life, and he should have a hero's destiny.

[Koi]

Speaking of Windwaker, it is the only game I stopped playing due to its utter LACK of story.

Link's sister gets kidnapped - random dragon boat god thing appears and tells you to go to point A then B then C... - go through dungeons and find islands - etc.
It's like, why did I have to go around the sea and find these magical orbs? Oh, right, the dragon boat told me that they're exactly what I need to defeat x enemy or take down y barrier.

There just isn't enough tying anything together, making the game just a task of following the dragon boat's instructions in order to get to the next dungeon.

However, in terms of best zelda game, Link to the Past or Link's Awakening are definitely candidates for that spot.

God I hate that boat.

[Snoy Cracken]

I think the idea of having a Link die would be awsome. However I think having the twighlight zone in black in white would be good if that was what they were going for. They claim that it was depressing and boring, now I don't know why they say it was boring but as far as depresing they could use that to their Advantage, It would set a somber mood to the game building up to Link's ultimate demise. or perhaps they could have it start with bright collors and get darker and darker as the game progressed and Link's quest got more and more desprate. I don't know just some ideas.

But they had better still have it being dark at night and have you using a lamp. that sounded awsome IMO.

[AniAko]

Speaking of Windwaker, it is the only game I stopped playing due to its utter LACK of story.
...
There just isn't enough tying anything together, making the game just a task of following the dragon boat's instructions in order to get to the next dungeon.

God I hate that boat.

Sadly, if you finished the game, it tells you how everything came about. As far as dramatic and cinematic endings go, WindWaker takes the cake. The ending was the best ending I've scene in a zelda game. It really gave you a feel for the characters, who they were, how they acted. Thanks to the cel-shaded world, they were really able to get those expressions across in a comic way, rather than a "fake" CG way.

[MajSheppard]

I just saw the official E3 2K6 trailer for Zelda:TP. Best Zelda evar?


Only an Idiot would base the quality of a game to graphics alone. Maybe that is why so many great games are lost in the modern era.

[shnastybiznastic]

Wow, I must have been hungry or tired when I posted that... all soundin' like a jerk...

Where are you getting the link dies idea? During the opening for windwaker it just says no hero showed up. I always figured that since link is just some guy who happens to become the next hero, the role just falls to someone cowardly or weak who dosent step up. Am I forgetting something? I'm interested in the chronology too, especially since the main characters of each game are pretty much just concepts manifesting themselves.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

The hero stated in the beginning of Wind Waker was the Hero of Time I thought. Wouldn't that put Wind Waker in OoT's timeline?

[Snoy Cracken]

Wow, I must have been hungry or tired when I posted that... all soundin' like a jerk...

Where are you getting the link dies idea? During the opening for windwaker it just says no hero showed up. I always figured that since link is just some guy who happens to become the next hero, the role just falls to someone cowardly or weak who dosent step up. Am I forgetting something? I'm interested in the chronology too, especially since the main characters of each game are pretty much just concepts manifesting themselves.

I'm not sure about Inevitable Winter, I personally am just saying I think it is a cool idea, not nessiceraly linked to the wind waker.

[Stormwatcher]

The nintendo guys don't really care about a single storyline... Zelda is the stuff of legends, and legends are never clear-cut. We are the ones who want to impose some dreary and boring "order" and "chronology" to the pieces of art that the Zelda tales are.

That said, I think that minish is the first. And the oracle games certainly follow some other, considering that they start AFTER some adventure (maybe ALLTP).
It is kinda useless trying to hammer them all down, though.

[shnastybiznastic]

The nintendo guys don't really care about a single storyline... Zelda is the stuff of legends, and legends are never clear-cut. We are the ones who want to impose some dreary and boring "order" and "chronology" to the pieces of art that the Zelda tales are.
Too true. If you really want a hoot, read through all the posts in this thread with the simpson's Comic Book Guy voice. :D

[Savok]

Only an Idiot would base the quality of a game to graphics alone. Maybe that is why so many great games are lost in the modern era.
Or geez, I don't know, maybe the sheer strength of the art direction shows that this is serious quality. There's good graphics, and there's a true sense of world, the later of only comes when amazing talented people work on a game.

[AniAko]

The hero stated in the beginning of Wind Waker was the Hero of Time I thought. Wouldn't that put Wind Waker in OoT's timeline?

You're right about them referring to the Hero of Time.
"This boy who traveled through time to save the land, went on to be known as the Hero of Time"

Then it goes on to say the boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend.

Then they talk about the world being overcome by Gannon's power once more.

They refer DIRECTLY to Link in OoT. Then again the story has to permit Hyrule to be overtaken so the king can create the water world. Had link returned to defend Hyrule, the king would not have had to suspended Hyrule's time. Seeing this as necessary, the story writers referenced another Zelda game to assist this story.

All that means is that while they aren't developing a Zelda timeline per se
they certainly don't try to deviate from it. We know link from Majora's mask was link from OoT. So there is in part some timeline they've established.

I'm not sure about Inevitable Winter, I personally am just saying I think it is a cool idea, not nessiceraly linked to the wind waker.

I too think it's a cool idea. I mearly refer to WW because of the story the game tells about the disappearance of Hero of Time. I'm not trying to put these story's in order, but you can't deny that certain ones fit around one another.

A quote from Zelda Universe (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/content/view/383/421/)

The Miyamoto Order
Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of the Zelda series, did state a timeline in an interview with Nintendo Power some time before the release of Ocarina of Time, and it went like this:

" Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/#): The Adventure (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/#) of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time. "

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Sadly, if you finished the game, it tells you how everything came about. As far as dramatic and cinematic endings go, WindWaker takes the cake. The ending was the best ending I've scene in a zelda game. It really gave you a feel for the characters, who they were, how they acted. Thanks to the cel-shaded world, they were really able to get those expressions across in a comic way, rather than a "fake" CG way.


This is very true.

Koi, if you'd finished WW, you'd get a great wrapping up of the story, and you'd also see the most graphically violent thing to happen in any Zelda game so far, when link buries his sword UP TO THE HILT in ganon's head. It certainly dispells the "kiddy image" many dismiss WW for.

As was mentioned earlier, I really love the way the Zelda story is quite minimal yet so huge. These discussions of the timeline can go on infinitely, and there's so many cool hints and in game elements that support all sorts of cool little theories. I've seen people present comparative maps of Wind Waker and Ocarina of time, showing how major landmarks such as the volcanic mountain ranges and forest glade match up with their counterparts in the water world, and how people have triangulated positions of temples and castles from that. It sounds far fetched, but it actually WORKS and I'm pretty sure Nintendo did it all on purpose.

There's so much story between the lines in Zelda, and just because the quests themselves are simple and generic (save the world/princess) doesn't mean that there is no story to be found if you're willing to go looking.

I'm all for complex and well told stories which unfold right in front of you like in a Final Fantasy or something, but this other method of storytelling works incredibly well too, it's like when you play you really are the current Hero/link incarnate and you get so absorbed in the world, but as soon as you're done and you pull back for a moment and think, you suddenly see how your actions have affected the bigger picture of the Zelda universe. It's really exciting.

[Savok]

Hear hear.

It completes the character arc in WW as well, at the start he's a kid with his sister enjoying life, by the end he does, well that. After everything he'd been through, he wasn't that fussed to do what he did.

[shnastybiznastic]

Absoloutley. It's the actual manifestation of something that was more etherial in previous games. In LttP (and probably LoZ, but it's been years) you end up recognising a change in link. At the end, it's not the same tiny person you are running from enemies with. The mantle and tools of the hero change the character into something different, even if that difference is expressed only through gameplay.

The comment was made about how it could be cool to see a link fail and die. It would be neat, I'll give it that, but what I'd rather see is a link plauged by his actions. I mean, how does someone who has undergone such an epic transformation fit back into society when it's all over? I want to see a link who comes home to his mother after defeating gannondorf and is disowned for the amount of killing he did to complete his goals. There is a whole social sacrifice aspect that could be really neat. Almost like a bigger version of the "kokiri don't like you anymore" section in OoT.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

The comment was made about how it could be cool to see a link fail and die. It would be neat, I'll give it that, but what I'd rather see is a link plauged by his actions. I mean, how does someone who has undergone such an epic transformation fit back into society when it's all over?

I don't think anyone here wants him to FAIL and die. I think the idea was that in order to stop ganondorf he would have to sacrifice himself in the final battle, taking ganondorf with him. Perhaps even Zelda and Link together, I wouldn't stop crying for days.

Also, the "fitting back in" afterwards thing, I always thought that was expressed quite well with the Hero of Time version of Link. He is wandering through the forest after OoT, ends up in a completely different realm, and after that, if you place Link's Awakening there like that quote from Miyamoto suggests, he leaves on a ship all by himself and finds himself in yet another unknown kingdom. It really is like he's at a loose end, adrift trying to find his place in the world after the epic events of OoT. It's almost like a tragic fate, that he's being guided by the gods away from any stable existance to where there is suffering that he needs to defeat.

But man, there's also a quote from Miyamoto about 6 months back (it was a news submission here) that Twilight Princess will be "the last Zelda of its kind". While that could really mean anything, this idea of Link and or Zelda dieing to defeat Ganon would be a pretty amazingly climactic ending to all of this.

[Savok]

Indeed, a "you're too tainted" thing like with Fallout wouldn't work for Zelda, but the fact that everytime there is a continuation, it's always been that he's left Hyrule and gone wandering with a sort of "now what?" feel is pretty spot on.

A Ganon refusing to die and Link sacrificing himself scenario would indeed be a powerful end, perfect for Zelda as well since so much of the game is told through experience and action.

It's this that makes videogames, art, that a real story with real emotion can be conveyed. Put Wind Waker into any other medum and it simply wouldn't work, film, tedious, a book? "Link jumped up onto the hovering ledge, then jumped onto the hovering ledge above it".

A painting is the closest you get, but even then it'd just be a montage with a series of scenes. The whole point is that you're with Link every step of the way, you've brought him to this point and now he decides, it's a partnership in a sense.