Immersion Prez rumbles about lack of vibration in PS3 DualShake

[Dracula-X]

The buzzards are decending and I don't see the story yet, it might as well be me. :)

President of Immersion Victor Viegas weighs in on Sony's current stance; NOT including the rumble tech in their latest offering, the PS3 Dual Shake controller:

Viegas also said that the responses he’s found on websites and in blogs seem to imply that gamers agree Sony has taken “a step backward” in its development of gaming by its removal of vibration technology. (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060517/murdey_01.shtml)

“From what I’ve read, people are not happy,” he said.
On the one hand you have Sony clearly not wanting to fork over the cash after the Immersion legal battle, on the other hand you have Immersion seeming to be a tad bitter over the obvious loss of revenue the PS3 could have provided them. Result: Gamers lose.

[NonSoft]

I'm sorry, gamers lose because the PS3 gamepads don't rumble?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares. I don't even notice games that use vibration anymore, infact games may not even use it anymore and I just don't know it. At best its inclusion in games is forgettable at worst it is just annoying.

Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time imagining a situation in which I would think or say "Yeah, that game is pretty good, but it would be great if the gamepad vibrated while I played it".

I guess it was cool and all 4 or 5 years ago, but I think pretty much everyone is acclimated to it now, and pretty much indifferent to its existence.

[jonat3]

Regardless, it's still a step back. It cannot be denied that there are gamers out there that consider rumble an integral part of the overall experience. Even if one particular person doesn't find rumble all that important, others do. Which is why it's a step back.

[Skjef]

I'm sorry, gamers lose because the PS3 gamepads don't rumble?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares. I don't even notice games that use vibration anymore, infact games may not even use it anymore and I just don't know it. At best its inclusion in games is forgettable at worst it is just annoying.

Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time imagining a situation in which I would think or say "Yeah, that game is pretty good, but it would be great if the gamepad vibrated while I played it".

I guess it was cool and all 4 or 5 years ago, but I think pretty much everyone is acclimated to it now, and pretty much indifferent to its existence.It's a feature. It's worth is determined by how developers use it. Removing a feature you could have kept for no reason makes no sense, as it just artificially limits developers who are accustomed to it.

Now that I think about it, this really sucks for PS3 backwards compatability. Without standard PS2 controller ports on the console itself, the only controller you'll be using for your PS1 and PS2 games will be the rumble-less PS3 controller. Hmm. Makes me glad I've already decided not to buy one.

[Heretic Machine]

I like rumbling, but it's not something that is game-breaking for me. I can live without it. Still shitty that Sony and Microsoft ripped off their rumble tech though.

[Chameleo]

when you're playing... fatal frame, the setting/silence/environment make the game scary.

the rumble in the controller mimics your heartbeat.... so when you're playing and just looking around, it beats at a regular pace, but when something happens, or is about to happen, it speeds up.

i'll be damned if that doesn't add to gameplay. shit just holding the controller freaks me out when i'm playing that game.

[bto]

I still remember the PSX days when Resident Evils were the big thing, that Capcom even re-released Resident Evil 2 to take advantage of the then-new dualshock controllers.

Personally, I like the rumble feature in all my games, Gran Turismo wasn't the same when I had to use my non-dualshock controller during multiplayer sessions.

[NonSoft]

I'm surprised so many people seem to like it. I can't think of a game I have played on any system when I was aware of the rumbling in a positive way. Anytime I have become aware of it, it has been annoying.

[captainstrombosis]

Just like everything. Not everyone will like it. This falls into tha catagory of "choice" most of the time you can turn it on or off. I prefer it on. It gives SOME physical sensation atleast.

Just like I absolutely HATE bloom. But most PC games let me turn it off. However consoles seem to be mandating it. So I might not even buy the next gen consoles.

[Wombat]

I'm another who hates rumble. The first thing I do when I start a game is go to the config menu and turn rumble off. I was very glad the 360 allows you to turn it off for all games by default.

[sTubbs]

I honestly do not notice rumble feedback. It is one of those things that might come to my attention if it kicks in during a cutscene or some other time I am not expecting it, but during gameplay it is irrelevant to me. On more than one occasion I have found myself assuming it was off, only to find the option menu telling me it was on. I guess I just get used to it and after a while my mind just starts to disregard it.

Despite the apparent lag issues with the PS3 tilt control, it still has some intriguing possibilities, such as steering vehicles or dodging in a fighter or taking cover in a shooter. Even so, I do not see it having any real advantages over a traditional controller. For that I am looking to the Wii, but even then I am thinking the controller might be too gimicky and complicated and require too much effort to do the same things that can be done with a regular controller. But we shall see.
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[Borys]

I'm sorry, gamers lose because the PS3 gamepads don't rumble?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares. I don't even notice games that use vibration anymore, infact games may not even use it anymore and I just don't know it. At best its inclusion in games is forgettable at worst it is just annoying.

Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time imagining a situation in which I would think or say "Yeah, that game is pretty good, but it would be great if the gamepad vibrated while I played it".

I guess it was cool and all 4 or 5 years ago, but I think pretty much everyone is acclimated to it now, and pretty much indifferent to its existence.

Yes, gamers lose without a rumble feature. I was always a very vocal defender of rumble - I cannot imagine playing GT4 or Metroid Prime without it.

Rumble > Wireless

as far as I care - I don't wander 15m from my TV when playing a 2m cord is always enough.

I know I'm in the minority and it really sucks :( Rumble adds so much to immersion - you feel your gun shaking, sword hitting concrete, every bump on the road.

I will miss you Dual Shock 2 and I pray to gods that Logitech releases a TRUE Dual Shock 3 for the PS3.

[sTubbs]

I will miss you Dual Shock 2 and I pray to gods that Logitech releases a TRUE Dual Shock 3 for the PS3.

I do not see that happening. Developers will have no reason to incorporate rumble feedback in to their games if it is not supported by the standard controller. Thus, Logitech would have to come up with some software side solution that would appropriately detect when the controller should and should not rumble. Obviously the logistics of this are far too complicated to be worth the effort. I can not see Logitech or any other company going to the effort of analyzing games and writing rumble feedback programs for them.
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[Borys]

I do not see that happening. Developers will have no reason to incorporate rumble feedback in to their games if it is not supported by the standard controller. Thus, Logitech would have to come up with some software side solution that would appropriately detect when the controller should and should not rumble. Obviously the logistics of this are far too complicated to be worth the effort. I can not see Logitech or any other company going to the effort of analyzing games and writing rumble feedback programs for them.
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Oh snap... you are right :(

[Jack B]

I'm sorry, gamers lose because the PS3 gamepads don't rumble?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares.

NonSoft,

take off your fan boy hat for a minute and believe that people care... I put rumble on high for every game I play. Let's see how did I use it in the last few days. When I start to lose traction in Forza and Moto GP, I sense the vibration in the controller.

I have a question for you. How many people complain heavily about not having force feedback in Forza? Imagine what would happen if they lost both rumble and force feedback for steering wheels in Grand Tourismo, which I believe will be the case as Immersion is responsible for that as well. Note: Not 100% sure, but can someone verify/comment?


Also, when the avalanche starts in Lost Planet, I feel the controller rumble before I even see the avalanche boulders. When I fire guns in FPS's I like the feel of the rumble.

I'm not surprised you said, that as almost every game has rumble on or off or a 1 thru 10 setting or similar.

One sign of intelligence is to be able to see both sides of an argument and argue either side effectively. I see you side. "... hard to believe anyone cares..."???????

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Decent audio equipment > Rumble. I dont see how people can be "immersed" in a game because their hands shake...

[Jack B]

when you're playing... fatal frame, the setting/silence/environment make the game scary.

the rumble in the controller mimics your heartbeat.... so when you're playing and just looking around, it beats at a regular pace, but when something happens, or is about to happen, it speeds up.

i'll be damned if that doesn't add to gameplay. shit just holding the controller freaks me out when i'm playing that game.

There's another good example. It's only when we don't have it, that we'll start to miss it. Shooting free throws in NBA 2k6 has a heart beat in clutch situations. I think Madden does too. Also, Tiger Woods golf.

This reminds me of reading the college football and basketball recruiting boards. While recruiting a player for your school everyone wants him, but as soon as he verbals or signs a letter of intent for another school everyone say's, "oh yeah, we didn't really want him anyway. So and so is much better than him. I heard he might not qualify anyway, etc, etc, etc,".[/B]

Same thing here. All the Grand Tourismo fans used to say, "OK, so Forza is decent, but the Xbox doesn't have force feedback, so the Logitech wheel is 10 times better".

I heard Bory's say, he'll miss it in Grand Tourismo and as a racing fan, I agree 100%. The logitech wheel was awesome! Now Microsoft will have a wireless force feedback wheel for Forza 2... Man, it's amazing how things have changed.

[B]btw, I've been so impressed with Borys' attitude during Sony's stumble at E3, I hope Microsoft and Nintendo fans react in turn if the occasion arises....

[jonat3]

Decent audio equipment > Rumble. I dont see how people can be "immersed" in a game because their hands shake...

If you can't see why, then you are beyond help. Just try using common sense and you will get your answer.

[Jack B]

Decent audio equipment > Rumble. I dont see how people can be "immersed" in a game because their hands shake...

Here's how you could see that... Use your imagination.

I hope like hell you're not designing any next gen games. Sony seems to agree with you... ]"Yeah, let's take out sub woofer base out of our games or maybe sound all together. I can't hear the door bell, when the pizza guy comes anyway. Sound in games is soooo distracting[/COLOR]."

[BlackPete]

Rez anyone? Can anyone seriously play this game WITHOUT rumble?

[Achilles]

Tactile feedback is a very useful feature when implemented well. When implemented poorly it’s rumble, and it’s annoying. The loss of that feature in the PS3 controller is not made up for, in my opinion, by the addition of some tilt input. I’d much rather be able to feel which direction I’m getting shot from and by what weapon (Halo), or the traction my car’s tires have on the road’s surface (most modern racing games), or just that added kick from firing a heavy machinegun, or accelerating quickly.

It’s a possibility that in a game like Assassin’s Creed they’ll use tactile feedback to let you know if you’re brushing into people in a crowd, or how hard you’ve bumped into somebody. If the 360 version has this, and the PS3 needs to represent this gameplay mechanic with a series of icons or a ‘stealth meter’, than the game loses something.

[lockwoodx]

I loved the rumble feature in video games. The dreamcast especially made nice use of it with ill bleed. I'm playing final fantasy over again on my PSone and every step I take while poisoned the controller rumbles now. Very cool!


Deffinatly skipping the ps3 unless the premium package goes down in price to 399$ or less.

[theguido]

Do people really care that much about rumble? I consider it to be more of a nuisance than anything.

[Chameleo]

yes; when used properly, rumble is great.

[Paranoia]

Decent audio equipment > Rumble.

Laughable at best.

[Goronmon]

I'm a fan of rumble, I always have it on in every game that uses it. Jus the simple fact that it gives me some tactile feedback is cool, especially for FPSs.

[Hemalin]

Yes, gamers lose without a rumble feature. I was always a very vocal defender of rumble - I cannot imagine playing GT4 or Metroid Prime without it.

Metroid Prime uses rumble? I <3 the Wavebird. In games that utualize rumble, I usually don't notice it and when I do notice it, I turn it off. If done right, rumble can add to a game but those games are so far between, they don't do much to legitamize rumble. I will never miss rumble.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

My imagination shouldnt be hard at work when Im playing a fucking videogame, everything I would normally imagine from reading or any other source is all right in front of me for me to enjoy. If you dont think that actual feeling from an explosion or gunshot with quality speakers/subs is far better then youre the one beyond help. Or youre just gaming on a 13inch black and white tv with mono sound.

[ElectricMonk]

apparently they have 600 patents covering rumble technology???

that's insane. and almost evil that they could bully everybody into their haptic monopoly.

[JRR006]

I enjoy the rumble feature when it's used well. Metal Gear Solid 2/3, the ... enemy personel sensor thingy that would mimic a heartbeat that increased when an enemy was near? I think that's all they gave you on Hard mode, no radar. I think that is the only time I've been conscious of the rumble feature in quite a while.

Then again, Call of Cthulhu for Xbox has some of the most overt rumble sensations ever. My hands literally felt like they might go numb last night. That is an example of overzealous rumbling I could do without.

[Paranoia]

Women would miss the rumble feature. ;)

[Vandenh]

Rumble doesn't do a lot for me. I must admit that the lock picking from SC (and some other games now) used rumble pretty well and usually rumble is nice to have to know when you are near death (Oblivion for example). I find it weird that, instead of paying licensing, Sony has just decided to drop this feature. Maybe they are hoping that this will convice Immersion to make them a deal?

>that's insane. and almost evil that they could bully everybody into their haptic monopoly.

You know, dude, *maybe* they invented all those patents?

[Ajguy]

For me, rumble has always been one of those things that you don't miss until it's gone. It is still one of my biggest complaints with the Wavebird. There have been many games that make excellent use of rumble. Metal Gear Solid's use of it was astounding (I mean come on, Psycho Mantis moved my controller with his mind!). I think rumble will be more important than ever with a controller utilizing tilt sensors. The rumble could have been an easy way for you to tell how far off center you are or something to that nature. Without that kind of tactile feedback, you lose a sense of the controller's position in space. Anyone who has ever use a Microsoft Freestyle Pro (which is basically what the PS3 controller is albeit in a Dualshock case) will tell you about the weird, floaty, and imprecise play it makes. Trying to play Motocross Madness with that thing was a chore.

[absolut taco]

When the freaking controller shook so much you thought for a second you got electrocuted during a few really tense moments in Condemned, it took the game from mildly spooky to fuck-me-this-is-scary.

[absolut taco]

Women would miss the rumble feature. ;)
Especially with the boomerang controller concept...

[NonSoft]

NonSoft,

take off your fan boy hat for a minute and believe that people care... I put rumble on high for every game I play. Let's see how did I use it in the last few days. When I start to lose traction in Forza and Moto GP, I sense the vibration in the controller.

I have a question for you. How many people complain heavily about not having force feedback in Forza? Imagine what would happen if they lost both rumble and force feedback for steering wheels in Grand Tourismo, which I believe will be the case as Immersion is responsible for that as well. Note: Not 100% sure, but can someone verify/comment?


Also, when the avalanche starts in Lost Planet, I feel the controller rumble before I even see the avalanche boulders. When I fire guns in FPS's I like the feel of the rumble.

I'm not surprised you said, that as almost every game has rumble on or off or a 1 thru 10 setting or similar.

One sign of intelligence is to be able to see both sides of an argument and argue either side effectively. I see you side. "... hard to believe anyone cares..."???????

What? My fanboy hat? Fanboy for what? Anti-rumble consoles? If I'm being accused of being a Sony fanboy I will state right now that I have seen nothing that makes me want a 360 or a PS3. I'm sure I'll get one of them eventually, but I have no idea which one right now, so the whole fanboy arguement is a joke like the rest of your post.

Yeah, I am surprised that so many people care about it. That doesn't mean that I can't see their side of the arguement it just means I am...surprised, like I said.

[Morratut]

I like the rumble feature in games. Why can't Sony just do a MS and settle with Immersion :rolleyes:

[TKO]

Y'know, I don't like rumble. It annoys me. I turn it off, first chance I get. But then again, it always just felt like a wee motor with an off-center weight attached.

Despite my personal feelings about it though, I find it incredibly strange that Sony have dropped this feature ..and yes, it is undoubtably a feature. Rumble has become commonplace in the console world and gamers generally expect it (especially the ones who like the added dimension of tactile feedback.) This just reeks of stupid managerial decisionmaking: Unavoidable patent costs, the need to go wireless, and the weird tilt-technology addition ..I'm thinking they felts these things together made rumble a liability. (Stupid suits. Talk to a gamer every once in a while, eh?)

Oh boy. The number of off-base decisions like this that have been made in the Sony camp really make me worry about their future. But, then again, it's about that time again when another console leader should fall from grace. Should keep them more honest. Erm, or maybe less dishonest, at least. ;)

[bean19]

I find it interesting that Sony may have chosen the tilt feature in their controllers due to legal concerns surrounding the vibration feature.

[51|RandoM]

Most games I just turn it off because it adds nothing except an occassional unwanted distraction. I'm sure there are games that actually use it to full advantage, but I think I've only played one or two of them.

Sony should've done rumble, but they should've done it completely different from the retarded immersion patent avalanche. Caving in and saying they can't do it at all without giving immersion a please-don't-litigate-me-with-your-dumb-patents payoff is weak sauce.

[Yeti2005]

Whether you like rumble or not, it's still a loss of a feature for the new PS3 controller. It's all about CHOICE, if I don't like rumble then I can turn if off, if I like it then I keep it on. Sony isn't even giving us that choice.

Nintendo and MS have rumble functionality in their controllers. What are developers going to do when they make a cross platform game like Splinter Cell that uses rumble for lock picking?

[peeweejd]

I'm voting for "I would miss the rumble"

As a matter of fact, there have been many times where I was playing gamecube and plugged a controller in (as opposed to using my wavebird) just for the rumble.

Also Forza on Xbox had kick ass rumbling. It was super subtle at times and crazy when you crashed.

[TheHulk]

The rumble feature is more an annoyance than anything else in my opinion. If I had a steering wheel add on that had rumble I might like it more but I hate the feature in a gamepad.

[bapenguin]

Certain games are better than others at Rumble.

IMO the 360 Rumble motors are amazing. In games like PGR3 the rumble is so perfect. You feel everything from a subtle bump in the road to a full on crash.

[Cubfan]

I would miss the rumble. Not a huge thing, and wouldn't keep me from buying a console, but I would definitely miss it. When it's properly implemented in games, it definitely adds to the overall experience.

[Zaro]

Nintendo and MS have rumble functionality in their controllers. What are developers going to do when they make a cross platform game like Splinter Cell that uses rumble for lock picking?

It's a very good way to use rumble. Nice exemple.

[kokyunage]

Why doesn't Sony just add an extra motor in the controller. As far as I know Immersions patent covers motors in the left and right side of the controller. Nintendo has a center one covered. Why not just add one or two more motors and your controller which would be sufficiently different from Immersions' patent?

[Johan]

I'm sorry, gamers lose because the PS3 gamepads don't rumble?

I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares. I don't even notice games that use vibration anymore

I care and I notice. I agree with the article, in that it is one more element to immerse the gamer into the actual game, as completely as possible. Given a choice to have it or not, I would choose to have it. Given a choice between rumble or motion sensors, I'd choose the rumble feature. Quite honestly, I think people will get tired flailing their hands/arms/body around with motion control (depending upon how it is implemented) or sore from having to hold still so as not to affect precise gameplay.

And I think it's entirely disingenuous of Sony to complain of compatibility issues between motion sensors and rumble effects; the technology exists for the two to coexist (aka Wii); they appear to be trying to avoid licensing fees, frankly.

[DaedalusFolly]

As a rule I turn rumble off. I've never cared for it and distaste games that put you at a disadvantage without it. I'm blanking on examples, but adventure games have used it like a homing beacon to locate secrets, items, etc.

[ChaosDent]

Rumble provides a third feedback channel for games, It is clearlythe lowest priority but it is still an important improvement. I'd argue that it is not as expressive (due to its implementation) or as important to immersion as audio and as with audio, there are very few workable gameplay hooks that completely depend on its presence. It is understandable that some people like it and some don't, rumble is often overplayed and when it is used successfully it is usually quite subtle.

Lack of rumble is definitely a net loss for the PS3, especially since its value as a feedback mechanism is greatly enhanced by the introduction of motion control input.

[Cha-Ka]

I could take or leave rumble in most games. In fact, I don't think I've experienced it once since I got that wireless logitech controller.

[Balthasar]

On the one hand you have Sony clearly not wanting to fork over the cash after the Immersion legal battle, on the other hand you have Immersion seeming to be a tad bitter over the obvious loss of revenue the PS3 could have provided them. Result: Gamers lose.
I like the rumble feature, and 9 times out of 10, if I notice it, I turn it on. However, how many times can any of us ever say "X game was great, and one of the things that really made me love was the way my controller rumbled?" Do people even notice the rumble anymore?

[rein]

I'm not big on rumble. I turn it off of most games and others it's so insignificant I don't notice it enough to turn it off. I guess I am the only one that wants the tilt feature in the new controller. That sounds more usefull to me than a vibrator in my hands. Unless I am making a homemade porn. Then the vibrator makes much more sense.

oh... ...and fuck immersion. This guy is just trying to make a sale. He just lost one big ass client.

[shpanky]

i like the rumble pack...on my naughty bits

[Shifteh]

Considering how overwhelmingly popular the Wavebird was, and is, I think we all realise that gamers do not, in fact, care about a rumble pack.

This guy is simply trying to stir things up.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

The Psycho Mantis battle will never be the same. :(

Unless, can you plug a DualShock in for backwards compatibility?

[Achilles]

Considering how overwhelmingly popular the Wavebird was, and is, I think we all realise that gamers do not, in fact, care about a rumble pack.

This guy is simply trying to stir things up.People don’t care about a rumble pack; something that causes general vibration with one motor isn’t interesting, it’s annoying. Something that has 2 motors and 255 degrees of vibration on each side starts to be a useful feedback device.

Also I think it’s interesting that people keep claiming that ‘nobody cares about rumble’ when at least half this thread has stated they enjoy having that additional feedback. Clearly somebody cares about it.

Some people have said that it’s one of those things that you don’t notice till it’s gone. I think that's true, and people might not even know why Killzone 2 doesn’t feel as good as Halo 3. It’s such a useful and subtle form of conveying information to the player that other than intuiting what it means, people don’t even actively notice it when it's done right. But thinking about it later you start to understand why you always knew what direction you were getting shot from without having to look at the arrows on the screen.

[Jack B]

What? My fanboy hat? Fanboy for what? Anti-rumble consoles? If I'm being accused of being a Sony fanboy I will state right now that I have seen nothing that makes me want a 360 or a PS3. I'm sure I'll get one of them eventually, but I have no idea which one right now, so the whole fanboy arguement is a joke like the rest of your post.

Yeah, I am surprised that so many people care about it. That doesn't mean that I can't see their side of the arguement it just means I am...surprised, like I said.

Your point is well taken on the fan boy comment. I knew when I wrote it I shouldn't have assumed that. My bad.

As for your comment

the whole fanboy arguement is a joke like the rest of your post.

I admitted my fan boy comment was wrong. Explain, all the uses of rumble I stated that were valid, (not to mention to wealth of posts on this thread that agree rumble is a worthwhile feature) and explain your flame?

What was the "joke"? Remember, you said you are capable of seeing someone else's side of the argument... although, you're comment
I find it very hard to believe that anyone even cares.

doesn't seem to reflect that ability...