Some Publishers Uneasy Over Lack of Final PS3 Specs

[Borys]

Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com) posted a very interesting article that looks at Sony's upcoming Playstation 3 console taking into account E3's aftermath. You can read the whole piece - which quotes sources from THQ (http://www.thq.com) and Electronic Arts (http://www.ea.com) - here (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=a6GO5hFhD.M0&refer=japan).

May 16 (Bloomberg) -- Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 introduction in November may be hampered by fewer and less-powerful games because the company hasn't given final technical details of the new console, according to video-game publishers.
...
"Developing for Sony's platform is incrementally more complex than what you're looking at for Microsoft or Nintendo,'' Hickey said. "With costs that could go over $25 million a game, you're not seeing third-party content where it needs to be at this stage to have a successful launch.''

Shares of Tokyo-based Sony fell 90 yen to 5,240 yen in Tokyo yesterday and have gained 8.7 percent this year.


T3h d00med for reals this time :(

[Nessus]

I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.

[Borys]

A day before E3 Sony was unstoppable. How things change...

[mightbe]

At least for now they're still up for the year. I wonder how well they'd do if they just scrapped the PS3 all together and focused on the PS2 for a while more.

That would be extremely enjoyable for me.

[bapenguin]

A day before E3 Sony was unstoppable. How things change...

This comes from what I said in another article. Sony got cocky and arrogant. They'll fall slightly this gen and be back with a vengence next one. I'm sure regardless of all this they will sell the most systems and the most games and have the most developers.

[eth3rton]

This comes from what I said in another article. Sony got cocky and arrogant. They'll fall slightly this gen and be back with a vengence next one. I'm sure regardless of all this they will sell the most systems and the most games and have the most developers.

At what cost....? Not $500/$600....

[alienchild]

Most of my friends - online or not, all have consoles and will probarbly buy one or two of the next gen ones, but not one of them is even remotely interested in the $500/600 pricetag. NONE. And most of them make quite a decent living.

[bapenguin]

Most of my friends - online or not, all have consoles and will probarbly buy one or two of the next gen ones, but not one of them is even remotely interested in the $500/600 pricetag. NONE. And most of them make quite a decent living.

It will drop, I'm sure in 18 months we'll be seeing it at $400/$500.

[codswallop]

not one of them is even remotely interested in the $500/600 pricetag. NONE.
They'll buy it anyway. Mark my words.

[Taco]

They'll buy it anyway. Mark my words.

If it was the only game in town, maybe. It's not.

By the time they get it down to a more "reasonable" 400/500 they will have lost this generation. And who knows, by that time maybe MS's next console will already be getting hyped.

[Reanimated]

Watching this slow train wreck of sony's is fantastic. It's like christmas every day.

[MORGiON]

Most of my friends - online or not, all have consoles and will probarbly buy one or two of the next gen ones, but not one of them is even remotely interested in the $500/600 pricetag. NONE. And most of them make quite a decent living.

Come live in Oz, I paid around $600 for PS1, and I think is was around $700-$800 for PS2.

And thats just for the console.

I am thinking of defecting to sexbox this time round, but it just dosnt float my boat (tthe Media Center Extender feature nearly has me sold!)

[jonat3]

I have no doubts at all that Sony will sell out at launch. It's AFTER launch where things will get problematic. I'm predicting the same thing will happen that happened with N64. N64 had a great lauch as well, but sales slackened for it, while the PS soared.

[Buddha Lotus]

I think allot of people are going to be surprised how how well that 600$ version sells..

[Buddha Lotus]

... also you have to rememebr.. Evilavatar.com isnt exactly Sony/PS3 central. =)

[Taco]

I think allot of people are going to be surprised how how well that 600$ version sells..

At best I can see jonat's prediction coming through. Post initial hype, sorry, no. No way, no how.

... also you have to rememebr.. Evilavatar.com isnt exactly Sony/PS3 central. =)

After this E3, I'd imagine the sentiment is spreading. I'm an equal oppurtunity console basher, the PS3 sucks worse of them all :).

[MORGiON]

If it was the only game in town, maybe. It's not.

By the time they get it down to a more "reasonable" 400/500 they will have lost this generation. And who knows, by that time maybe MS's next console will already be getting hyped.

I really do wonder how come people keep saying Sony will lose this generation. They WILL lose some market share, but I cannot see Microsoft outselling them (even with their headstart).

Thats just my prediction. We wont know the result for a year or so anyway. :)

[Taco]

It's the headstart combined with the price. Mostly the price, $500+ is just crazy. Even the 360 was pushing the boundries a bit.

[TrackZero]

"Shares of Tokyo-based Sony fell 90 yen to 5,240 yen in Tokyo yesterday and have gained 8.7 percent this year."

It's always bugged me that big companies are affected by each division. So it's difficult at a glance to see how they're doing (as the TV division may be making money, while the videogame side isn't, as an example).

[Taco]

It's the headstart combined with the price. Mostly the price, $500+ is just crazy. Even the 360 was pushing the boundries a bit.

Also couple this with issues we are hearing about 3rd party support. This is much less certain so it's too shakey to really argue. They said the same about the PS2. But it's something to keep an eye on.

[MORGiON]

It's the headstart combined with the price. Mostly the price, $500+ is just crazy. Even the 360 was pushing the boundries a bit.

I don't think the 360 pushed the boundries in the US from what I have read, consumers got screwed by retailers, paid a shitload. How long did the 360 shortages last for???

[MORGiON]

Also couple this with issues we are hearing about 3rd party support. This is much less certain so it's too shakey to really argue. They said the same about the PS2. But it's something to keep an eye on.

Very true, all we can do is wait and see

[Taco]

I mean their price point for the non-gimped system, at $399, is relativley high compared to previous generations.

But it's not that much higher and they don't have any competition really right now. So it didn't become an issue.

[Frogleg Special]

Eat da Blu-Ray!

Consoles are about games, and Sony forget about that.

[Kelegacy]

Watching this slow train wreck of sony's is fantastic. It's like christmas every day.
I don't think it's funny to see a company in our industry go tits up, especially a console maker like Sony. Sony represents competition for Microsoft, and that's a GOOD thing for gamers. As much as I bash Microsoft from time to time, I don't want them gone. They are good for gaming, or at least, any powerful competitor is when another powermonger is in play, meaning Sony.

Nonetheless, Sony is doing this to themselves. I bet they smoke dope all day and drink saki instead of focusing on the PS3 launch. It seems they STILL don't have their shit together and it's been forever. I think they rested too much on their PS2 laurels and now are getting bitten by the hubris bug.

I don't want to see them gone, ever. Microsoft on top of the industry would mean more games like Shadowrun for us.

[MORGiON]

Another point I havent seen mentioned with everyone comparing what they have seen sofar with the PS3 compared to the 360.

What will the 2nd generation games be like once developers understand cell better??
Has the PS3 more room for improvment in the future than 360??

The reason I ask this is because from what i've been reading sofar, the 360 is very similar to a PC to code for, so one could assume (I know assume make an ass out of u and me) that 1st gen games coded for the 360 are coded much closer to the 360's full potential than the PS3.

[jonat3]

According to Carmack, the PS3 has a higher theoretical peak performance than the xbox360. It's just that it's harder to reach that peak, because the PS3 is a bitch to program for. Ultimately, i expect multi platform games will look nearly identical. Developers willing to sweat blood to try and reach that peak will be rare IMO, since they will only do such a thing as long as Sony retains dominance. And i'm not even sure that the PS3 will be able to retain dominance.

[MORGiON]

Eat da Blu-Ray!

Consoles are about games, and Sony forget about that.


My PS2 was also my first DVD player.

[BigMike20VT]

Watching this slow train wreck of sony's is fantastic. It's like christmas every day.
Why?????

1) the ps3 will be a great console
2) i dont get why people always pick sides, when the only thing a monopoly does is hurt the consumer.

what we need is all 3 consoles fighting each other, this keeps prices down and keeps sony ninty and *** on their toes.

[BigMike20VT]

The reason I ask this is because from what i've been reading sofar, the 360 is very similar to a PC to code for, so one could assume (I know assume make an ass out of u and me) that 1st gen games coded for the 360 are coded much closer to the 360's full potential than the PS3.

its actually probably closer to an old school mac where as the xbox 1 was more akin to a PC.... i say old school as i believe apple have sacked off the power PC chip now.

unfortunately, the mac has never been that good for games :/ but then i put that more down to not a big enough market to spend proper time on it.

[jonat3]

Well, it's certainly true that defeat would do Sony some good. As they are now, it's like the Nintendo of old. Defeat certainly improved Nintendo for the better IMO.

[MORGiON]

lol, then we might end up with this

Nintendo - Wii
Playstation - Poo

[jonat3]

lol, then we might end up with this

Nintendo - Wii
Playstation - Poo

Oh God, no...

*shudders*

[GunnyMo]

At least for now they're still up for the year. I wonder how well they'd do if they just scrapped the PS3 all together and focused on the PS2 for a while more.

That would be extremely enjoyable for me.

Interesting that you should say that. Anyone ever think that might be part of their plan? They announce a new $600 system that they will lose money on every time they sell one. Come launch day noone can get one due to shortages so what do Sony fans do in the meantime? Buy a new PS2 and a bunch of games at Xmas. Sony, I assume, is making money on the PS2 now. I would not be a bit suprised if they put more effort into selling the PS2 this fall instead of the PS3.

[Paranoia]

2) i dont get why people always pick sides, when the only thing a monopoly does is hurt the consumer.


That's a pretty good irony folks!

[Yeti2005]

The reason I ask this is because from what i've been reading sofar, the 360 is very similar to a PC to code for, so one could assume (I know assume make an ass out of u and me) that 1st gen games coded for the 360 are coded much closer to the 360's full potential than the PS3.

I don't think ANY 1st gen game on ANY console ever got close to the full potential of that console. The 360 is tri-core CPU which isn't quite the same as "normal" PCs. Most 1st gen games for the 360 used 1 of the 3 cores so I expect we'll see a fair amount of improvements as more developers utilize all of the cores.

Sony's CPU architecture is interesting and could allow for a lot of power but it's so vastly different than anything out there that I'm guessing it will take a while to tap that power.

[fitbabits]

It will drop, I'm sure in 18 months we'll be seeing it at $400/$500.
By which time the Xbox 360 will likely be $250 and the Core package will have been discontinued.

Unless Sony have a major rethink where the price of the PS3 is concerned, they are on a hiding to nothing.

[Reanimated]

I don't think it's funny to see a company in our industry go tits up, especially a console maker like Sony. Sony represents competition for Microsoft, and that's a GOOD thing for gamers. As much as I bash Microsoft from time to time, I don't want them gone. They are good for gaming, or at least, any powerful competitor is when another powermonger is in play, meaning Sony.

Nonetheless, Sony is doing this to themselves. I bet they smoke dope all day and drink saki instead of focusing on the PS3 launch. It seems they STILL don't have their shit together and it's been forever. I think they rested too much on their PS2 laurels and now are getting bitten by the hubris bug.

I don't want to see them gone, ever. Microsoft on top of the industry would mean more games like Shadowrun for us.





I'm an old-school Sega fan, so I want sony dead. D-E-A-D. It's no more than they deserve. As for the competition, I agree that fierce competition is good for the consumer. That's not a point that anyone could argue. Having said that, however, the death of sony will merely pave the way for a new competitor. I don't believe that the rebirth of Sega hardware is a possibility, but I think someone like Apple could certainly make an interesting competitor.

As for MS, they have my money for as long as they keep the focus squarely on SOFTWARE. GAMES. Sony lost this focus with their lust for more power in the greater entertainment world. First we saw it with the PSP, and now we're seeing it with the PS3. When you design your system around forms of entertainment that are not games, then you have forgotten about the gamer, and as a gamer, I'm going to forget about you. That's one thing that you've got to give MS some credit for. The 360 is designed around games and the gamer lifestyle. Even when you hear MS talk about things like Live Anywhere, the things they show is new ways to expand the experience of GAMES. Sure you'll find some movie trailers on Xbox Live, but those are the sideshow; NOT the main attraction. So, you know, I've got to give MS credit for really getting what it's all about and working to serve my interests as a gamer. They understand that, while the market is growing, and people do want more OPTIONS, the focus has to stay on the software. The second they lose sight of that is the second they lose my consumer dollars. The last thing I'll point out that MS has been doing a fantastic job of is searching for and creating new fantastic IP's. I mean just look at all of the new AAA shit they brought to the table this E3 - Gears of War, Mass Effect, Too Human, Lost Planet (secured as an exclusive from Capcom), plus things that we haven't seen much of, like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. This is something that is important to me. I'd much rather see new interesting content than something that has a double digit number attached to the end of it's name.

So, while it might not be great for sony to go the way of the dodo, it will be great for GAMERS to send them a message and pimp slap them into a position where they are forced to focus on what got them to the top spot. Oh yeah, and cut all the copycat bullshit. Let's see some real innovations, sony.

[antoniogaud]

I have a major disagreement with people that say that the PS3 will sell more than Microsoft this generation, just on brand name alone.

An estimated 7-10 million unit headstart by X360 when the PS3 is released is nothing to dismiss. In fact, its a damned daunting lead. When the platform you are trying to catch up is comparable to yours technically and costs less, your brand name better be incredibly powerful indeed!

What we can learn from the next-gen PSP handheld having its ass handed to it by the 'inferior' old-school DS is that its the games and innovation sells systems. Wii has the amazing Wiimote and X360 has the incredible Xbox Live service, both are great innovations that move the gaming experience forward.

With many 3rd-party games coming out on multi-platform , and with MS sporting great exclusive titles and IP, I believe the X360 will keep their lead well into 2008 and beyond. They are simply winning the heart of each and every gamer who tries their system - and these gamers spread the word to get their friends to buy a X360 as well (most likely to play against them in Live). This is not an easy problem for PS3 to overcome without bringing something new and fresh into the market, which I would argue, they have not.

I left Wii out of the equation because it is not a direct competitor to either machine, although I believe that it is more complementary to X360 buyers who have more money at their disposal after a X360 purchase to make the additional $200 Wii purchase.

One last note, at $600 the PS3 isn't going to appeal to the mainstream buyers that bought the PS2, most of which when it cost less than $200. The PS3 will reach the $200 threshold long after the X360 has.

[crackeriah]

This comes from what I said in another article. Sony got cocky and arrogant. They'll fall slightly this gen and be back with a vengence next one. I'm sure regardless of all this they will sell the most systems and the most games and have the most developers.

I imagine this was what people were saying about Nintendo when the N64 came up against the PS1. Nintendo launched a year later with better graphics and a cheaper price, but their expensive storage mechanism (cartridges) really hurt them in the long run.

It's not inconceivable that a few bad choices (expensive blu-ray, unusual chip architecture, high launch price) could make or break the current leader.

[Kelegacy]

I just want to see more games that I'd love to play. I don't care too much for online gaming, at least not right now, but if Microsoft secures more innovative games, or titles that are different from running and gunning or action-centric, I'll be very happy. Other than that, I have no beefs with MS right now. Sony is/was king of the third party support, which made their systems so spectacular. MS is doing a good job of trying to one-up them, which is great for all of us.

Now if we could just see some competition that would lower game prices....

[Stormwatcher]

I believe that the several next batches of 360 games will be a lot prettier than Oblivion and GRAW. Halo3 seems like an entire new console.

Sony is gearing up to screw up this generation. If the PS3 starts off weak, we might see more tripleA games migrating to the 360.. at least the western ones. GTA4 is already on the 360 at the game's launch... I'd hope the 360 gets MGS4, then I won't need the PS3 at all. I am burned up with FF anyway.

[MasterKwan]

Sony's not going anywhere. I think the price point's a major problem but, it'll just prevent them from being #1 not, destroy them. I don't want to spend $600 for a console but, if the right set of games comes out, I will. I'm not clear if Sony is mis-guided or we all lack vision. If Blu-Ray takes off, they might win their bet.

What's fun is watching these companies try to predict the future. Sony is betting that they know what we want. The only question is if they're right or not.

[Odwalla]

My PS2 was also my first DVD player.

When the PS2 was released DVDs were an established media format, DVD drives for computers/consoles were commodity items, and you could either buy or rent any movie ever made in DVD format. That's a totally different scenario than what Sony is trying to do with BluRay on the PS3. BluRay titles don't exist, there's no industry that sells or rents BluRay movies, BluRay players don't exist, BluRay drives are horrendously expensive due to their rarity, and BluRay, as a whole, hasn't had time to either be borne out as an accepted media format like DVD or as yet another Sony proprietary piece of tech-junk (like BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, and UMD).

Along with the untested BluRay technology Sony is also trying to use a new processor architechture and a new chip manufacturing process. Sony has three, and that is three too many, high risk items in the PS3 specs. The risk factors of those items, along with their rarity, is what is driving the price of the PS3 up to the point where it won't be obtainable, or paletable, for most consumers.

[Johan]

Sony will still own the majority of sales in Japan, regardless of what they do (which I think is a sorry commentary on Japanese consumers...I lived for years in South Korea, and the herd/nationalistic mentality is quite strong). Sony could release a piece of crap and gamers there would oooh and aaaah the smell and consistency...as long as it was a Japanese company that crapped it out.

Competition in the US and EU will be fairly fierce, which is good for the industry and for gamers.

[Reanimated]

Now if we could just see some competition that would lower game prices....



You've just hit another issue I have. First party 360 titles are 50 bucks. That's a commitment I can applaud MS for making.

I think people would do well to brace themselves for the prices for PS3 games. Blu Ray discs are NOT cheap to press.

[Entropy Effect]

I agree with most of th EvAv users that Sony is making some serious mistakes, but I have begun to doubt whether they are doomed to failure. If they can position the PS3 as the must-have top-of-the-line home entertainment device, through either advertising or a few gorgeous games, I think it will sell. The $600 price point can even be used as a marketing tactic as they have already started to do. Of course its $600, if it was $400 it would be an inferior system! Just think of all the people buying HDTV's who really can't afford them.

Odwalla, you are wrong on at least one point in that the infrastructure for distributing Blu-ray discs is already in place, as it is the exact same infrastructure for every other type of media. Just look at how quickly UMD movies were made available in Blockbuster, Wal-mart, Target, airports, etc. And UMD is probably a more marginalized format than Blu-ray will be.

[Serapth]

What im finding odd is that Borys is angry at people for bashing Sony and being MS fanboys, yet at the same time, he is always the source of the anti-Sony stories.

Pot, meet kettle?

[Reanimated]

Cut Borys some slack. He's got a lot of internal conflict happening right now.

[Heretic Machine]

It will drop, I'm sure in 18 months we'll be seeing it at $400/$500.

By that time, it might as well be a Saturn. The 360 will be $300 by then, and god knows how low the Revolution will be selling for... $150?

[direwolf]

While I can't say Sony is "teh d00med" for certain I think that they have received a ton of negative publicity that won't be so easy for them to buy their way out of.

I think Sony deserves to be knocked off their perch and hopefully this will beat some common sense into them over the next few years of being outsold. Their price point is rediculous, almost as bad as them trying to force feed us an unproven technology just to help out another devision.

However, if Microsoft still can't gain ground in Japan over the next 4 years then I still believe that, even if Sony "loses" this round in the console wars, Sony will still be the front-runner for the next generation. Now if Japanese developers start giving the 360 more of a look due to market dominance this generation then there is a good chance MS can jump out front.

Consumers have the chance to teach Sony a lesson and I don't think that anybody but the most die hard fan boys will be rushing out to buy a Sony on day 1. They certainly won't be paying all those extra dollars because of games or gaming technology compared to the 360 or because of any innovative features compared to the Wii.

[Johan]

Consumers have the chance to teach Sony a lesson and I don't think that anybody but the most die hard fan boys will be rushing out to buy a Sony on day 1.

They will sell out all that they can produce and distribute in Japan, and probably everywhere else as well...mass insanity and stupidity.

[blackzc]

Watching this slow train wreck of sony's is fantastic. It's like christmas every day.

teehee hee haha...haa haaa aaaaaah hahahahahahhahh...whahahahahahah..bwhahahahahahaha !!! :D

[Wyrm]

Ah, but there's no such thing as bad publicity. While I do believe Sony will not die hard, they will get hit where it hurts the most. Right in the wallet. I cannot believe they had the nerve to say 600 bucks was cheap. Take the god damned bluray drive out and give us a GAMING system, not a stupid marketing ploy to sell your new media format.

[Steele Johnson]

The PS2 has the same programmability issues, and look at all the games that platform has. It's not going to stop developers. I'm sure that the launch will be just like their prior launches. Not many launch titles.

But I'm sure that the designers will release sdk updates for the platform month after month making it easier to program over time. Just like the PS2.

I really don't think programmability is Sony's problem. Sony's biggest problem is the effects of screwing over their customers for the past 5 years or so. It's finally starting to backfire on them. And I personally hope they burn.

[BigMike20VT]

That's a pretty good irony folks!


lol i see your point, was poorly worded but you get my point am sure, we need all 3 out there.

[antoniogaud]

Ah, but there's no such thing as bad publicity.

I could not disagree more.

I don' t know where that lame-ass phrase originated, but in most cases, bad publicity is exactly what it sounds like > people talking badly about something.

How anyone could construe that as being a positive, is beyond me.

Mind you, I am not saying that the PS3 is doomed, but merely that the word on the street now is that their system is too costly and doesn't do anything that can't be done for less on X360 and doesn't innovate as much as Wii.

People expected more from PS3, and they didn't get it.

When the gaming press start spreading the word in the next round of newstand magazines, the bad publicity will spread even more. I have yet to read any major magazine give anything but a negative view on the PS3 price-to-quality proposition.

[thegameguru]

Biggest problem isnt the price.. its the value for that price..

Side by side your average consumer will be hard pressed to see any difference between the $399 Xbox 360 and the $499/$599 PS3. From what I saw in terms of visuals from E3 they look essentially the same.

I cant imagine what would happen if Microsoft got ballsy enough to drop the core SKU to $249 and simply make the Premium $349 right before the PS3 launch.

[Citizen Philip]

They will sell out all that they can produce and distribute in Japan, and probably everywhere else as well...mass insanity and stupidity.

I've wondered about this as well. Japan has a totally open market with a huge number of gamers and they just flat-out ignored the 360, regardless of whatever money MS put into marketing. It sits their on the shelf. Dusty.

What I want to know is, how many gamers are looking to buy new systems from this generation, broken down by region. Because, if the Japanese and North American markets are comparitive (I imagine they are), MS has registered no impact in a huge market.

That is voting with your wallet.

[Kelegacy]

What im finding odd is that Borys is angry at people for bashing Sony and being MS fanboys, yet at the same time, he is always the source of the anti-Sony stories.

Pot, meet kettle?

See, that's the power of integrity. He not only loves Sony and abhors Microsoft, but he also acknowledges fuck ups on Sony's part. Where most 360 fans will try to gloss over the library with a quality and diversified sheen, they can't seem to admit the problems of the platform. Borys obviously can, despite his love of Sony.

And I don't think there are really any Sony fanboys here, at least that's not what I'd label myself and Borys. We enjoy the games that pop up on the Sony platforms, games that cannot be rivaled anywhere else in terms of ingenuity, innovation, and diversity--not to mention, fun. If Sony became another Xbox in terms of library and game experiences, we'd both be angry. It's not Sony love, it just happens that Playstation is the platform that is home to the games we like to play. It's the platform that EVERYONE can find oodles to enjoy, not just one or two titles created to satiate a genre audience.

[Serapth]

See, that's the power of integrity. He not only loves Sony and abhors Microsoft, but he also acknowledges fuck ups on Sony's part. Where most 360 fans will try to gloss over the library with a quality and diversified sheen, they can't seem to admit the problems of the platform. Borys obviously can, despite his love of Sony.

And I don't think there are really any Sony fanboys here, at least that's not what I'd label myself and Borys. We enjoy the games that pop up on the Sony platforms, games that cannot be rivaled anywhere else in terms of ingenuity, innovation, and diversity--not to mention, fun. If Sony became another Xbox in terms of library and game experiences, we'd both be angry. It's not Sony love, it just happens that Playstation is the platform that is home to the games we like to play. It's the platform that EVERYONE can find oodles to enjoy, not just one or two titles created to satiate a genre audience.

No no no... thats not what im talking about. Im not saying Borys isnt capable of seeing the negatives that are Sony. Im saying Borys is posting flamebait PS3 stories, normally followed by a flamebaitish comment ( Sony==Phony or Sony is teh Doomed ), then complaining when people bash Sony and are MS fanboys.

It just aint adding up.

[Citizen Philip]

No no no... thats not what im talking about. Im not saying Borys isnt capable of seeing the negatives that are Sony. Im saying Borys is posting flamebait PS3 stories, normally followed by a flamebaitish comment ( Sony==Phony or Sony is teh Doomed ), then complaining when people bash Sony and are MS fanboys.

It just aint adding up.

So? I don't get it. He tailors his submissions to the largest audience? But gets annoyed because they never let him down?

[fitbabits]

Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz) has the full details (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3020&Itemid=2).

Bloomberg reports that publishers such as THQ and Sega are on edge because Sony hasn't offered up finalized technical specifications for the PlayStation 3.

Sega of America president Simon Jeffrey told the business publication that "A lot of developers have not gotten the kits" and "There certainly will not be a lot of titles available" for the system's launch.

THQ CEO Brian Farrell said that his company decided to forego development of The Sopranos videogame for PS3 because of the lack of final hardware specifications. He said development for the PS3 at this point is "too risky".

Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Kaz Hirai said that he expects around 15 titles for the PS3 launch. "I don't think there will be too much of an issue," Hirai said.

The big two US publishers, Electronic Arts and Activision, said that they're quite content with the information Sony has provided.
Why are Sony sticking their collective heads in the sand over what is turning into a PR nightmare for them? Are they so confident in the gullibility of their fans that they think the litany of concerns will just vanish before the launch?

[Serapth]

Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Kaz Hirai said that he expects around 15 titles for the PS3 launch. "I don't think there will be too much of an issue," Hirai said.

This is a good example of why people are finding Sony arrogant these days...

[Serapth]

Also, am I the only finding it kinda ironic the front page news stories have one titled "Sony Specs clarified" followed by "Some Publishers Uneasy Over Lack of Final PS3 Specs"?
:D

[Jack B]

This is a good example of why people are finding Sony arrogant these days...

THQ is likely not the only developer saying, "too risky". Some willl, some won't, but IMO developing for the PS3 is not happening at the level of the PS2 or PS1.

[Tricky Thumb]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Yes and they're correct to think so, the average consumer knows little of the truth and a lot of what the PR machine blasts. I wish it wasn't this way, but the sad fact of the matter is that most people don't truly know what to think or they think they know when actually they're misinformed.

All that matters though is that Microsoft and Nintendo keep on their toes. If Sony shapes up or delivers something worth a damn, then great. Otherwise, things could change quite a lot.

[ddbrown30]

What this comes down to is that the mainstream doesn't know about any of this shit. They don't follow E3 and they don't care. However, if there aren't very many games at launch, it's going to hurt their sales.

[Heretic Machine]

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Yes and they're correct to think so, the average consumer knows little of the truth and a lot of what the PR machine blasts.

The average consumer knows one thing, and one thing only: $600 is more than $400.

[benig]

They are releasing their console in 6 months and they don't even have the specs finalized yet?! What is going on over there!

[Citizen Philip]

Also, am I the only finding it kinda ironic the front page news stories have one titled "Sony Specs clarified" followed by "Some Publishers Uneasy Over Lack of Final PS3 Specs"?
:D

Yes. I don't get it. Someone draw me a picture. 'Splain to me.

[Tricky Thumb]

The average consumer knows one thing, and one thing only: $600 is more than $400.

Sure, but what they mainly know is: PS3 is liek totaly aweshom graphixs yo. Final Fantasy XVII will ruelz!!

=/

[ddbrown30]

Yes. I don't get it. Someone draw me a picture. 'Splain to me.

Different usage of the word "spec." One is referring to the stuff we care about, like wifi, controllers, and memory slots, and the other is referring to the actual hardware specs, like ram and processor.

[Dag-Sabot]

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12816
I think Borys might have beat you to the scoop.

[51|RandoM]

Why are Sony sticking their collective heads in the sand over what is turning into a PR nightmare for them? Are they so confident in the gullibility of their fans that they think the litany of concerns will just vanish before the launch?

Why? Because there are no easy answers to the problems they face, nor any reasonable way to spin the situation so that it doesn't look bad. Sony is definately in a pickle.

[Jack B]

A day before E3 Sony was unstoppable. How things change...

Because the Console makers must approve the titles for their systems "free press" doesn't exist from the game developers in the way it would for say PC game development. The devs won't want to risk pissing off Sony, so the game development comparisions between Sony and Microsoft are subdued.

I believe slowly over time, you'll start to hear more grumblings from Carmack and others, but that type of thing will always have a bit of a lid on it.

[DropD98]

I don't think that $ony will have any problems selling out their launch. Look at the amount of money people were willing to spend on a 360 on Ebay. That was just nuts. I also don't think that anyone that was considering buying a P$3 won't spend the cash to get one after hearing that price. I think most of the ones that won't buy one at launch, will just wait until the next price drop and get a Wii for the time being. Or maybe even move to a 360. I love my 360 and only got one because I started saving for it months ahead of time. I started saving for the P$3, but I don't think I will have enough to get one at launch as I figured I'd spend around the same amount I spent on my 360. As far as who's on top, I would rather *** and $ony be on more equal ground than either of them dominating the market.

The only thing that really pisses me off about $ony is that they are forcing the blu-ray format on me. I still don't see the need for blu-ray at this point in time. At least not for another few years as far as movie DVDs are concerned. But thats just my opinion.

[Jack B]

While I can't say Sony is "teh d00med" for certain I think that they have received a ton of negative publicity that won't be so easy for them to buy their way out of.

I think Sony deserves to be knocked off their perch and hopefully this will beat some common sense into them over the next few years of being outsold. Their price point is rediculous, almost as bad as them trying to force feed us an unproven technology just to help out another devision.

However, if Microsoft still can't gain ground in Japan over the next 4 years then I still believe that, even if Sony "loses" this round in the console wars, Sony will still be the front-runner for the next generation. Now if Japanese developers start giving the 360 more of a look due to market dominance this generation then there is a good chance MS can jump out front.

Consumers have the chance to teach Sony a lesson and I don't think that anybody but the most die hard fan boys will be rushing out to buy a Sony on day 1. They certainly won't be paying all those extra dollars because of games or gaming technology compared to the 360 or because of any innovative features compared to the Wii.

It seems that there is this an "Allegiance" or "Worship" for Japan as a market and a game development nirvana. Fads come an go. Look at Korea, (historically not a fan of Japan) NA and Europe as future game dev leaders...

1. Japanese Market Importance - Wasn't the Japanese market for PS2's (please someone correct me with facts, as I don't have time to look up the exact numbers) about 27% of their total. If that's accurate then winning Japan is less important from a numbers perspective than Europe or North America.

I know winning Japan would effect Japanese game developers creating content for the 360, but see comment number 2 below.

2. Game Development - IMO, North America and Europe are on a renaissance. I'm not really into Anime and much of the Japanese content. Some is creative and very good, but on the whole, I'm very pleased with North America and Europe.

[torrefaction]

The reason I ask this is because from what i've been reading sofar, the 360 is very similar to a PC to code for, so one could assume (I know assume make an ass out of u and me) that 1st gen games coded for the 360 are coded much closer to the 360's full potential than the PS3.

You're forgetting a huge point here. Game developer's aren't use to programming for multiple core's. They're not taking advantage of this barely at all, except in the most generic of ways right now. On top of this, most games are coded for wide support of graphics card. These developer's code to the chipset specifically. The thing about console's that can make them seem more powerful than equivalent PC's is that developer's only have to worry about a single set of system specs.

[torrefaction]

I don't think that $ony will have any problems selling out their launch. Look at the amount of money people were willing to spend on a 360 on Ebay.

You're forgetting a couple key points here.

1.) The 360 had no direct competition. There won't be the same storm, because there's an alternative, cheaper console to buy.

2.) You're right. They'll sell out. They only have 2 million units. That's ridiculous.

[Citizen Philip]

Different usage of the word "spec." One is referring to the stuff we care about, like wifi, controllers, and memory slots, and the other is referring to the actual hardware specs, like ram and processor.

Ah, thanks. Call me next year when it's all settled.

[Zanzibar]

I cant imagine what would happen if Microsoft got ballsy enough to drop the core SKU to $249 and simply make the Premium $349 right before the PS3 launch.
You won't have to imagine. It will happen.

Peter Moore, if, by some act of God, you or one of your underlings are reading this, you could absolutely destroy Sony once and for all if you chop the price of the X360s down $100 instead of $50 this November. Eat the short-term costs and reap the benefits of years of higher software sales. You'd get every developer on the planet making games for your system.

[GrinR]

I said it here:

PS3 will sell like fucking hotcakes. They won't be able to make enough of them fast enough and they'll fly off the shelves.

Sony understands that their market is locked in. People KNOW "Playstation". It's a branding powerhouse that won't quit unless they utterly fuck it up (defective units AND high price AND no games AND wonky backwards compat (see 360) AND a long wait til those are fixed.

It's the same with Nintendo. Play with the WEE all you like, it could have N64 graphics and so long as they release Mario/Pokemon/etc on it it will sell like gangbusters. People buy Nintendo because they love Nintendo games, not because it's the coolest hardware. It never is.

[Ronberk]

Why do people think that the Japanese are blind insane and stupid shit eating people for following Sony when its so obvious that the Xbox 360 is so much "better" for them? Hello, the games that they want to play aren't on the Xbox 360, they have no interest in your two billion fps and sports titles, they want to play their suck formulatic "rpgs" full of angsty anime characters with multicoloured hair, gargantuan eyes, and dialogue that sounds like its written by a two year old when translated to english. Hell, a game like Oblivion will probably short circuit their brains with its mind blowing concept of open ended gameplay, probably stuck at character creation where they can't even decide what kind of face they would like their hero to have.

It's all in what kind of games you want to play, there's no obvious choice.

[Chandler]

Consumers don't care if a company is arrogant, they care if they have delivered before, and Sony has done that.

[Taco]

That's the overly simplistic way of thinking, Grinr.

Even the PS brand name won't erase a $600 pricetag. All things being more or less equal, people would buy the PS3. Things are nowhere near equal where the masses care most.

[Borys]

Already reported few newsposts earlier, fit! (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12816)

Are we that desperate in Sony bashing that we have to post the same story TWICE, *sigh*?

[Taco]

Is Warren Buffet desperately in need of money?

More like more time needs to be spent managing the sheer amount of bad press and various fuckups

[Busted_Astromech]

I said it here:

PS3 will sell like fucking hotcakes. They won't be able to make enough of them fast enough and they'll fly off the shelves.

Sony understands that their market is locked in. People KNOW "Playstation". It's a branding powerhouse that won't quit unless they utterly fuck it up (defective units AND high price AND no games AND wonky backwards compat (see 360) AND a long wait til those are fixed.

Echoing Taco's statements, I think you're overestimating brand loyalty. Remember, the people that gave Sony 100 million+ PS2's sold are casual gamers. Brand loyalty may have a strong effect on their purchasing decisions, but I'd bet that the difference between $400 and $600 has even more of an effect. I think it's very easy to predict that the initial PS3 shipments will sell out; you probably won't be able to find one in stores until May 2007. But after the early adopters all have it you'll have people who are honestly deciding between two nearly identical systems, one of which costs 50% more. I'm placing my bets on Microsoft to win those people.

And who knows how the Wii will sell. It's so different from the traditional systems that it attempts to create its own, new market--I'd love to see the Wii become a sensation but it's too much of an unkown factor for me to make any predictions.

[Echani]

I said it here:

PS3 will sell like fucking hotcakes. They won't be able to make enough of them fast enough and they'll fly off the shelves.
I'm with GrinR. No matter how much of a nightmare the last couple of weeks have been in the Sony camp, I still see the PS3 appearing in a lot of homes before Christmas. We saw how much people were willing to pay for consoles when first wave of 360 releases hit Ebay. There won't be one in my home for quite a while, but I haven't ruled out the eventuality.

[Taco]

we saw how much people were willing to pay for consoles when first wave of 360 releases hit Ebay.

I wonder what fraction of a percent of potential buyers that accounts for.

That does not work as an example. It probably will sell out most places, or at least nearly, on release. That means nil in the greater scheme of things.

[Serapth]

You won't have to imagine. It will happen.

Peter Moore, if, by some act of God, you or one of your underlings are reading this, you could absolutely destroy Sony once and for all if you chop the price of the X360s down $100 instead of $50 this November. Eat the short-term costs and reap the benefits of years of higher software sales. You'd get every developer on the planet making games for your system.

Thats not completely true. Infact, dropping the price could hurt Microsoft. As it stands now, they are the value leader ( ignoring the Wii ) between the two consoles. Moore was right on when he answered "When will you announce price cuts?" with "We just did, the minute Sony announced their price!".

As of right now, 399$ is being looked at as a bargain (?!?! wow... never saw that coming) and 299$ is a super bargain, especially if the Wii launches at the 249$ pricepoint rumoured.

Thing is, if Microsoft announces a price cut, they could start to look less "next gen". Suddenly Sony gets a boost because they look FAR pricier, thus far more powerful!

Its sickly stupid that this is actually how part of the market works, but its true. Besides, they already have a 200$ gap in cost... how much different would 250$ be? I predict the only price drop we will see in the future is if the Wii is announced at 199$. In that case you will see a Core unit price drop.

What would be a killing blow by Microsoft would be to offer the Premium Edition + HDDVD + a 60 - 80 gig HD at 499$ when the PS3 launches.

[GrinR]

Echoing Taco's statements, I think you're overestimating brand loyalty. Remember, the people that gave Sony 100 million+ PS2's sold are casual gamers. Brand loyalty may have a strong effect on their purchasing decisions, but I'd bet that the difference between $400 and $600 has even more of an effect. I think it's very easy to predict that the initial PS3 shipments will sell out; you probably won't be able to find one in stores until May 2007. But after the early adopters all have it you'll have people who are honestly deciding between two nearly identical systems, one of which costs 50% more. I'm placing my bets on Microsoft to win those people.

And who knows how the Wii will sell. It's so different from the traditional systems that it attempts to create its own, new market--I'd love to see the Wii become a sensation but it's too much of an unkown factor for me to make any predictions.

Respectfully, I completely disagree. You're skipping that there is a $500 version of it, and it'll be pushed as a movie-player as well. The inital shipments through early 2007 will ALL sell out. The 360 is a good example of what I'm talking about (only much, much worse for MS, since a lot of folks who weren't even MS-heads wanted one and just gave up trying to get one).

Also, I know the casual gamer better than the hard-core gamer. The casual gamer is a 25-35 and male. He likes sports. He has a girlfriend. He works. His favorite game is hockey-something/madden on a console.

They are a class of people who have $500 bones to blow on the latest "playstation" thing.

[Taco]

$500. $300.

The point remains.

MS did not have any competition with the 360.

Also, I know the casual gamer better than the hard-core gamer. The casual gamer is a 25-35 and male. He likes sports. He has a girlfriend. He works. His favorite game is hockey-something/madden on a console.

They are a class of people who have $500 bones to blow on the latest "playstation" thing.

How's the smell down and up there?

[GrinR]

$500. $300.

The point remains.

MS did not have any competition with the 360.



How's the smell down and up there?


Smell? You lost me coach.

[Kamalot]

Microsoft just got a price drop on last Monday when the PS3 was announced at $600.

At $300, the Xbox 360 is only $50 more than a PSP? Crazy!

[Stormwatcher]

1) MS is NOT going to drop the price on the 360 anytime soon. Peter Moore himself meda that pretty clear. They're right. This is a competitive market, and as long as the consumers are accepting MS' price - which they are - and it's lower than the direct competition - which it is - they have absolutely ZERO reason to change their pricing structure.

2) MS is stil very far from getting ANY love from japan, which might help Sony over there, but they have a few JRPGs on the pipeline. There's blue dragon and some other. If they manage to muscle those into japan, they may start to change things. That's a long shot, anyway.

And also, people have said before that maybe the japanese market isn't THAT important... The Gamecube trounced the Xbox there, and it didn't mean shit.

Finally, the Wii will (argh) have a VERY strong presence over there... it's just the kinde of thing they like (aside from JRPGs).

3) DropD98, people will take your opinions more seriously if you avoid the $ony, *** and Kidtendo crap. Thanks :)

[Citizen Philip]

Same at the other thread.

PS3+15 Games vs 360+15 Games = meh. Whichever one has 15 games you want to buy is all that's really important.

[fitbabits]

Already reported few newsposts earlier, fit! (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12816)

Are we that desperate in Sony bashing that we have to post the same story TWICE, *sigh*?
Ah, thankee! Look for part three tomorrow. :)

[Zeal]

It's all good. Sony can always count on their Japanese, borg-like followers to pick up the tab. Get a load of this shit:


- Famitsu published the Top 10 E3 news Japanese players are most interested:

1. Impression and presentation of PlayStation 3 Controller
2. Square Enix's announcement of Final Fantasy XIII
3. Price and Launch date of PlayStation 3
4. Announcement of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Snake as a new character
5. PlayStation 3 menu and user interface
6. Details of the PlayStation 3 Network Platform
7. Images of PlayStation 3 games
8. Three versions of Final Fantasy XIII
9. Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen & The Tower of Mirrors for Wii
10. Images of Square Enix games

[Citizen Philip]

It's all good. Sony can always count on their Japanese, borg-like followers to pick up the tab. Get a load of this shit:

Well come on then, if Japan is the home of borg-like Sony followers what is North America to the 360 then?

[fitbabits]

Well come on then, if Japan is the home of borg-like followers what is North America then?
Dude, you really don't want to be asking such an open-ended question on the internets! :D

[Serapth]

Also, I know the casual gamer better than the hard-core gamer. The casual gamer is a 25-35 and male. He likes sports. He has a girlfriend. He works. His favorite game is hockey-something/madden on a console.


Please explain something to me... why the fuck do NHL2Kblah games sell so damned well in the States, but NHL ratings on TV are absolute crap?!?! Is Fox correct, is hockey "too fast" for Americans?

[Citizen Philip]

Dude, you really don't want to be asking such an open-ended question on the internets! :D

I really want him to answer. :(

[Taco]

The following for the 360 in North America is nothing compared to what Sony sees in Japan. Though to be perfectly honest I don't know if it's more Japan's love for Sony or hatred for MS.

In closing, I'm not sure what kind of answer you are looking for or expecting.

[Odwalla]

The PS2 has the same programmability issues, and look at all the games that platform has.

Not it doesn't. The PS3 has a core CPU, 7 dedicated sub-processors and an asynchronous data bus. There's never been a hardware configuration like that. It's not trivial to keep all 8 cells huming along at peak effiency. If you can't manage that you aren't getting the console anywhere near the performance #s that Sony has been tossing around. It's not just a matter of "AI on this cell, physics on that cell, graphics over here, etc..." The threading and synchronization issues are a bear.

[Borys]

Ah, thankee! Look for part three tomorrow. :)

Bashing Sony thrice a day, awesome! :)

[MORGiON]

When the PS2 was released DVDs were an established media format, DVD drives for computers/consoles were commodity items, and you could either buy or rent any movie ever made in DVD format. That's a totally different scenario than what Sony is trying to do with BluRay on the PS3. BluRay titles don't exist, there's no industry that sells or rents BluRay movies, BluRay players don't exist, BluRay drives are horrendously expensive due to their rarity, and BluRay, as a whole, hasn't had time to either be borne out as an accepted media format like DVD or as yet another Sony proprietary piece of tech-junk (like BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, and UMD).

Along with the untested BluRay technology Sony is also trying to use a new processor architechture and a new chip manufacturing process. Sony has three, and that is three too many, high risk items in the PS3 specs. The risk factors of those items, along with their rarity, is what is driving the price of the PS3 up to the point where it won't be obtainable, or paletable, for most consumers.

I don't agree about DVD being established (well here in country Australia anyway), I didnt know anyone with a DVD player when PS2 was released, shops didn't have a huge selection. I think its only in more recent years that you have been able to "Buy/Rent any movie ever made on DVD". Because you sure as hell couldnt back then, the movies were also fucking expensive $30-$40AUS.

[fitbabits]

Bashing Sony thrice a day, awesome! :)
It's the new sport - look for it to appear on ESPN some time soon.