Xbox 360 HD-DVD Bundle to be Cheaper than PS3

[fitbabits]

From the 'orly' news desk at EvAv HQ comes the following piece of news (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17034), courtesy of GamesIndustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz).

Retail sources in the UK have told GamesIndustry.biz that Microsoft has intimated to them that the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 will be priced such that console and peripheral combined are cheaper than Sony's PS3.

At E3 last week, Microsoft once again discussed its plans to launch a HD-DVD component for the Xbox 360 later this year, but did not reveal any further information regarding the pricing of the unit.

Currently, the Xbox 360 retails at GBP 279 in the UK, with the Core System version selling for GBP 209, while the 60GB model of the PlayStation 3 is expected to cost between GBP 399 and GBP 419 when it arrives in late November.

Microsoft's alleged comments to UK retailers seem to suggest that the HD-DVD peripheral, which allows playback of high definition movies using Toshiba's next-generation DVD standard, will be priced below GBP 130, making an Xbox 360 and HD-DVD player bundle into a potentially attractive option at Christmas.
Microsoft would be kuh-razy to release it at a higher price point. I'm still not sold on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray, but I know which route I'll be taking should I get the bug (hint - I already have an Xbox 360).

[GunnyMo]

That's good news. Kinda expected it but good news nonetheless.

I, too, am still not sold on either one but I have a strong suspicion that HD-DVD will win out. I used a Magic 8 Ball to determine that, btw.

[Heretic Machine]

If we do get stuck with a new format, I'd prefer that it be HD-DVD... But only because the players can always accept DVD's as well as HD-DVD's. Unlike Blu-ray, which has to have a seperate laser installed to be able to play DVD's.

But I'd rather not have a new format at all, and I doubt that either one of these will be a success.

[Derella]

I think HD-DVD will win out in the end. The name alone will be more familiar to the general public, so they will probably be more likely to try it.

[Reanimated]

If it's around the 100 dollar mark, then I could be tempted to pick one up.

[Xerxes]

Wait... Whats 130 pounds? Isn't like $2(us) for 1 pound? And wait, ps3 CAN'T play normal dvds? Or do they have two lasers in ps3?

[bone_matrix]

(figured from www.xe.com/ucc)

As of now, 130 GBP is 245.090 USD.

360:
279 GBP=526.003 USD
209 GBP=394.031 USD

PS3:
399-419 GBP=752.241-789.947 USD

The exchange rate is about 1.88 GBP to 1 USD. Man, the guys over there are getting screwed.

Anyway, at that price, a Premium 360 with the HD-DVD drive is about equal to the cheap expectation of the PS3.

I would be all over a $100 HD-DVD drive, although I don't need one. But at that price, I could justify it, but I believe it will be about $200.

[TrackZero]

That's good news. Kinda expected it but good news nonetheless.

I, too, am still not sold on either one but I have a strong suspicion that HD-DVD will win out. I used a Magic 8 Ball to determine that, btw.

Yeah. It just seems easier to me to purchase it as an add-on device. That and the fact that HD-DVD movies can double-side with the old DVD style still on the disc, that's a good selling point to me. I want to go take a look at the difference in quality and if it's there, I'm pretty much sold on the format.

[Xerxes]

I'm not getting how much cheaper this could be...

Although I do wonder about the the selling of Xbox 360 and Xbox 360 HD games. Wouldn't some one justify selling more exclusive content on the HD disc? Kinda like PC games on CDs and DVDs. Sure that's mostly to just make one disc instead of like 3 but I'm just saying, who's to stop MS from allowing if not pushing type of thing this sooner or later?

For instance, a Halo Trilogy game all redid in the new engine. Shined up from the beginning to the end. All the multiplayer packs and everything. Hell I'm making it up and I would probably by some shit like that.

[Kamalot]

Wait... Whats 130 pounds? Isn't like $2(us) for 1 pound? And wait, ps3 CAN'T play normal dvds? Or do they have two lasers in ps3?
PS3 CAN play normal DVDs, as can all Bluray players, but it is true that ion order to do so, they need to have a seperate laser in the system. There is a blue laser for watching Bluray discs and a red laser for reading CDs, DVDs and other discs.

No wonder Bluray is more expensive. Extra components also ensure it is easier to break.

Dan

[Kem0sabe]

What has always pissed me off about the console pricing is that Europeans pay MUCH more than North americans when it comes to buying consoles.

The ps3 - 599$ in the U.S, 599 euros in europe.... thats close to 700$ :|

The xbox360 - 399$ in the U.S, 399 euros in europe...

Companies just like to ripoff europeans.

[KhitomerRouge]

Quick matchup:

HD DVD:
3 major studios, only 1 exclusive
3 manufacturers, only 1 exclusive
Only 2 models available in very limited quantities until November
Name similar enough to existing technology that people will think it's not that different (see also: SACD and DVD-Audio)
Major funding from Microsoft, who has stated that they want to eliminate physical media
Price advantage, however that will change with PS3 release, and also ensures retailers will dump them in favor of Blu-ray for higher profit margins

Blu-ray:
6 major studios, 4 exclusive (Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, and of course Sony/MGM/Columbia-Tristar)
Every major manufacturer except for Toshiba
More expensive hardware for bleeding-edge folks, but prices will be equal within a year
Built-in to very popular gaming system
Despite the "separate laser" issue, every announced Blu-ray player will be able to play (and probably upconvert) regular DVDs.

[Kamalot]

If the HD-DVD player comes in around $100, I'll buy it for giggles.

$100 is nothing, considering I already have a 360 for games.

$100 is MUCH cheaper than $500 for a standalone player or $500 on a betamax...I mean Bluray player.

[KhitomerRouge]

No wonder Bluray is more expensive. Extra components also ensure it is easier to break.This isn't something restricted to Blu-ray. Someone was brave enough to crack open a Toshiba HD DVD player and found it was a PC with an HD DVD drive in a nice case. Despite using mostly industry-standard parts, there are widespread reports of instability/freezing that may or may not be fixed by firmware. The hardware has loading times of 2 minutes just to recognize the disc.

[Megalith]

HD-DVD wins simply because it has DVD in the title.

[rein]

You guys crack me up. You are basing the success of a new media on an add-on peripheral for a video game console. Wasn't porn supposed to decide this?

[Xerxes]

Quick matchup:

HD DVD:
3 major studios, only 1 exclusive
3 manufacturers, only 1 exclusive
Only 2 models available in very limited quantities until November
Name similar enough to existing technology that people will think it's not that different (see also: SACD and DVD-Audio)
Major funding from Microsoft, who has stated that they want to eliminate physical media
Price advantage, however that will change with PS3 release, and also ensures retailers will dump them in favor of Blu-ray for higher profit margins

Blu-ray:
6 major studios, 4 exclusive (Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, and of course Sony/MGM/Columbia-Tristar)
Every major manufacturer except for Toshiba
More expensive hardware for bleeding-edge folks, but prices will be equal within a year
Built-in to very popular gaming system
Despite the "separate laser" issue, every announced Blu-ray player will be able to play (and probably upconvert) regular DVDs.

I thought HD-DVD could "upconvert" already. And we can't really call the Ps3 all to popular right now. Can't be popular until you're out there mixing it up right? And if the add-in from MS is that much cheaper wouldn't that be a notch for both platforms. Here's another plus for HD-DVD, Serenity (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FA57N0/qid=1147792146/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-3928733-5640943?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130) is already out for HD-DVD. :eek: And how is a $600 ps3 going to changing the price advantage?

[eth3rton]

Extra components also ensure it is easier to break. Dan


Didn't Sony have a nightmare with the PS2's breaking down as well. Oh well here we go again... Only 2x the price... :rolleyes:

[KhitomerRouge]

I thought HD-DVD could "upconvert" already.It's an optional function for both formats. At this point, all players for both formats will upconvert.
Here's another plus for HD-DVD, Serenity (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FA57N0/qid=1147792146/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-3928733-5640943?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130) is already out for HD-DVD. :eek:Really? Was it a huge success in the theaters? What about on regular DVD? Really, if you want compare nerdporn, Blu-ray will have Star Wars, every Pixar feature, and all the movies from the Terminator and Alien series as exclusives.
And how is a $600 ps3 going to changing the price advantage?Instead of a $1000 STB, it'll be within $100 of the low-end (glitchy) Toshiba/RCA player. Just as a reminder, the most popular DVD player at DVD launch was a ~$1000 Sony, even though there were cheaper models.

[51|RandoM]

neither format is going to win. we'll see dual standard players eventually, just like dvd-r and dvd+r.

That said, I'm not rebuying *any* of my current dvd collection. When you get right down to it, for me at least, current dvd resolution is perfectly adequate for my uses. More resolution isn't going to suddenly make bad movies good, or good movies on dvd bad.

[KhitomerRouge]

If the HD-DVD player comes in around $100, I'll buy it for giggles.

$100 is nothing, considering I already have a 360 for games.

$100 is MUCH cheaper than $500 for a standalone player or $500 on a betamax...I mean Bluray player.You're not getting just $100 for HD DVD. You did pay $400 for the 360 that the attachment requires, did you not? So, If you think you're getting a steal for $400 cheaper, then MSFT has really pulled the wool over your eyes. And one more thing: there's no guarantee that the attachment will have HDMI. So, at $400 for the system and $100 for the attachment, you're essentially getting the same thing as the HDMI-less PS3 at the same price.

[TrackZero]

I'm not getting how much cheaper this could be...

Although I do wonder about the the selling of Xbox 360 and Xbox 360 HD games. Wouldn't some one justify selling more exclusive content on the HD disc? Kinda like PC games on CDs and DVDs. Sure that's mostly to just make one disc instead of like 3 but I'm just saying, who's to stop MS from allowing if not pushing type of thing this sooner or later?

For instance, a Halo Trilogy game all redid in the new engine. Shined up from the beginning to the end. All the multiplayer packs and everything. Hell I'm making it up and I would probably by some shit like that.

MS was pretty clear that the games for the system are staying on DVD9 format. Not HD-DVD, that's just for movies.

[bone_matrix]

You're not getting just $100 for HD DVD. You did pay $400 for the 360 that the attachment requires, did you not? So, If you think you're getting a steal for $400 cheaper, then MSFT has really pulled the wool over your eyes. And one more thing: there's no guarantee that the attachment will have HDMI. So, at $400 for the system and $100 for the attachment, you're essentially getting the same thing as the HDMI-less PS3 at the same price.


Isn't Microsoft coming out with an HDMI cable for the 360? Thought I heard that somewhere.

Anyway, I already spent $400 on a game machine. It does really well at that. I dind't spend $400 on a game machine/new dvd player. If the HD-DVD drive is only $100, I would have spent $100 on an HD-DVD player.

Its like this:

I bought a computer 3 years ago for $1000 dollars. I can then buy a Bluray or HD-DVD drive for $100 dollars each, to watch said movies on my computer. It doesn't instantly make the price of those drives $1100 each, does it? If I bought that computer with one of those drives in it, and it was one of the selling points, than yes, I would allow you to say I spent $1100 on at Bluray or HD-DVD drive. Since its an add on that the intial purchase wasn't for, its only $100.

[TrackZero]

You're not getting just $100 for HD DVD. You did pay $400 for the 360 that the attachment requires, did you not? So, If you think you're getting a steal for $400 cheaper, then MSFT has really pulled the wool over your eyes. And one more thing: there's no guarantee that the attachment will have HDMI. So, at $400 for the system and $100 for the attachment, you're essentially getting the same thing as the HDMI-less PS3 at the same price.

You're confusing HDMI with a specific resolution. It's merely a cable/DRM format. HD-DVD is not impeded graphically through using component cables/VGA instead of an HDMI interface.

The discussion over the blu-ray HDMI fiasco is that there's a flag content providers can set, which if implemented on a movie, would cause the cheaper non-HDMI PS3 model to only display at 540p.

Don't confuse the issue, that's a PS3/blu-ray/content provider specific issue. HD-DVD will display just fine on the 360 at full resolution regardless if there was an HDMI port or not.

[KhitomerRouge]

Isn't Microsoft coming out with an HDMI cable for the 360? Thought I heard that somewhere.It's a placeholder at Lik-sang that's been up for a while. They haven't got any word from MSFT.
Anyway, I already spent $400 on a game machine. It does really well at that. I dind't spend $400 on a game machine/new dvd player. If the HD-DVD drive is only $100, I would have spent $100 on an HD-DVD player...Since its an add on that the intial purchase wasn't for, its only $100.You will have paid the $500 total, right? The attachment won't work on it's own, so yes, you have essentially bought HD DVD playback for $500. If it was a drive that could be attached to a regular PC or worked on it's own, then your logic would fit.

[rein]

The discussion over the blu-ray HDMI fiasco is that there's a flag content providers can set, which if implemented on a movie, would cause the cheaper non-HDMI PS3 model to only display at 540p.


Serious question. Why would the content providers turn this "feature" on? It seems like it would cost them sales if they limit the number of players.

[KhitomerRouge]

The discussion over the blu-ray HDMI fiasco is that there's a flag content providers can set, which if implemented on a movie, would cause the cheaper non-HDMI PS3 model to only display at 540p.

Don't confuse the issue, that's a PS3/blu-ray/content provider specific issue. HD-DVD will display just fine on the 360 at full resolution regardless if there was an HDMI port or not.BZZZT! Wrong!

The flag that providers set applies to analog ouputs for both formats. Every Blu-ray studio has said they're not going to use the flag. The only studio that has is Warner, who is swinging both ways.

Really, this issue has been covered multiple times. Check out past articles at HDBeat, Video Business, or any number of online and print sources for the HDCP/ICT issue.

[Dracula-X]

If we do get stuck with a new format, I'd prefer that it be HD-DVD... But only because the players can always accept DVD's as well as HD-DVD's. Unlike Blu-ray, which has to have a seperate laser installed to be able to play DVD's.PS3 CAN play normal DVDs, as can all Bluray players, but it is true that ion order to do so, they need to have a seperate laser in the system. There is a blue laser for watching Bluray discs and a red laser for reading CDs, DVDs and other discs. No wonder Bluray is more expensive. Extra components also ensure it is easier to break.

Why would the PS3 use multiple lasers when Sony developed a single lens optical pickup (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200405/04-026E/) for all 3 formats back in 2004? Everyone from BenQ to Philips to Pioneer are using single lens optical pickups for Blu-ray devices too.

--------------

Back to the price of the addon, It's likely to be $199, the price was already leaked on xbox.com and quickly removed, and I'm not convinced that was an accident either, perhaps just testing the waters :)

[bone_matrix]

You will have paid the $500 total, right? The attachment won't work on it's own, so yes, you have essentially bought HD DVD playback for $500. If it was a drive that could be attached to a regular PC or worked on it's own, then your logic would fit.

If its a drive for the PC, it wouldn't work on its own. How can you say its $500 total for the Xbox version of an HD-DVD drive, because it needs it to play, but say its not the total for the PC and the drive that needs the PC to play?

If its stand alone, then its $600 or whatever the cost anyway, so the stand alone is a moot point.

edit: forgot my point:

If the intial purchase isn't for the add-on, I don't believe you can throw that with the add-on price.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Isn't Microsoft coming out with an HDMI cable for the 360? Thought I heard that somewhere.

The 360 has no HDMI output, so they can't just release an HDMI cable and call it a day. If they add an output it would have to be on the HD DVD add-on itself, but there's a USB connection between the add-on and the main system, so you no longer have the encrypted path required by HDCP. The HD DVD playback on the 360 will probably be component only.

[trip1eX]

That 360 HD-DVD player is fugly.

[Xerxes]

That 360 HD-DVD player is fugly.
So is the ps3...

[Kamalot]

Why would the PS3 use multiple lasers when Sony developed a single lens optical pickup (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200405/04-026E/) for all 3 formats back in 2004? Everyone from BenQ to Philips to Pioneer are using single lens optical pickups for Blu-ray devices too.
The 3 wavelength laser is 1 package containing multiple lasers.

In the single unit 3 wavelength laser, by combining production techniques of high-level output blue-violet laser diode and processing precise alignment of multiple laser units, single packaging is realized. In the object lens, introduction of aspherical glass and hologram lens to achieve spherical aberration correction, corresponding to each wavelength enables one series of optical system to deal with 3 wavelengths.

The package has the optics to read all dicsc but using multiple lasers.

Isn't that what I said originally?

Regardless, a game console does not need Bluray to be successful. Gamers are forced to pay for extra aspherical glass and hologram lenses when buying a PS3; expensive components that offer little-to no bearing on gameplay.

[Dracula-X]

The 3 wavelength laser is 1 package containing multiple lasers.

The package has the optics to read all dicsc but using multiple lasers.

Isn't that what I said originally?

Regardless, a game console does not need Bluray to be successful. Gamers are forced to pay for extra aspherical glass and hologram lenses when buying a PS3; expensive components that offer little-to no bearing on gameplay.
Nice attempt to try and spin it, but no. When you talk about multiple lasers you're trying to imply there are separate lenses too, at least that's what your campaign of hate/misinformation is to the uninitiated. BD hardware is using a single blue-violet laser diode. HDDVD units have separate red and blue laser diodes, so if you want to titty twist yet again, by your definition the HDDVD camps are using "separate lasers" and thus are "expensive", despite both BD/HDDVD using single optical pickups.

Stop the bull.

[Kamalot]

Nice attempt to try and spin it, but no. When you talk about multiple lasers you're trying to imply there are separate lenses too

Uh, no. That's never been implied. I applaud Sony for building a 3-in one lens system. That's smart. But one wouldn't really need a 3-in-one lens system if we were adopting a game system based on existing mass-market media. :eek:

PS3 buyers are still paying extra for a more complex laser system than the competing consoles, for the highly questionable benefit of more disc space. Sony has a clever solution to something that isn't really a problem. What is more of a problem is pricing the console out of the market because it is overloaded with unnecessary tech.

[dena miscreant]

That 360 HD-DVD player is fugly.

It looks like a mini 360. I don't agree.

[Chalex]

What has always pissed me off about the console pricing is that Europeans pay MUCH more than North americans when it comes to buying consoles.

The ps3 - 599$ in the U.S, 599 euros in europe.... thats close to 700$ :|

The xbox360 - 399$ in the U.S, 399 euros in europe...

Companies just like to ripoff europeans.The PS3 is region free.

Make foreign friends and have them send you one at $599.

[Chalex]

For anyone who wants to know about the pros/cons of HD formats should check out:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/186/1

It's a rather good article, and there seems to be alot of misinformation going on in this thread.

[Mason]

What has always pissed me off about the console pricing is that Europeans pay MUCH more than North americans when it comes to buying consoles.

The ps3 - 599$ in the U.S, 599 euros in europe.... thats close to 700$ :|

The xbox360 - 399$ in the U.S, 399 euros in europe...

Companies just like to ripoff europeans.
Here's the thing: the US dollar has been slipping horribly the past few years, and yet we've somehow had this inflation without wage growth or increased cost of living (although costs are starting to jump a lot faster than wages). So in order to sell something to US consumers, you have to price it way below what EU or JP are capable/willing to pay.

The only people that this trend actually benefits is America's investment class, so don't mistake it for a generalized continental inequity.

[StrifeSnake13*]

There's one little problem with Microsoft hd-dvd player add on, IT CAN'T PLAY HD-DVD GAMES!

There should not even be a comparison between the ps3's blu-ray and MS's hd-dvd drives, the ps3 can use blu-ray for games an movies, the 360 can only play movies. Sony made blu-ray and the HDD standard so dev's could actually use those features for games.

[MORGiON]

There's one little problem with Microsoft hd-dvd player add on, IT CAN'T PLAY HD-DVD GAMES!

There should not even be a comparison between the ps3's blu-ray and MS's hd-dvd drives, the ps3 can use blu-ray for games an movies, the 360 can only play movies. Sony made blu-ray and the HDD standard so dev's could actually use those features for games.


And here comes the.. DVD has enough room for all our gaming goodness, and so forth

I agree with you, though you are opening a very very nasty can of worms here.
Remember this forum is full of 360 fanbois who are restricted to DVD for games.

[Kamalot]

Anyway, I already spent $400 on a game machine. It does really well at that. I dind't spend $400 on a game machine/new dvd player. If the HD-DVD drive is only $100, I would have spent $100 on an HD-DVD player.This is exactly how I feel. I don't mind spending $100 on a drive, now that I already have a kick-ass game machine. Live rocks, the games rock, the controller rocks, it is a rockin game machine. I bought it for the gaming first and it is worth every penny. Anything else is gravy.

It isn't like Microsoft delayed the price of the system to include an HD-DVD drive and jacked the prices up by $200 to force me into something I don't want.

[fitbabits]

There's one little problem with Microsoft hd-dvd player add on, IT CAN'T PLAY HD-DVD GAMES!

There should not even be a comparison between the ps3's blu-ray and MS's hd-dvd drives, the ps3 can use blu-ray for games an movies, the 360 can only play movies. Sony made blu-ray and the HDD standard so dev's could actually use those features for games.
The major difference here is that Microsoft are offering a choice to consumers - not forcing a format on gamers.