Microsoft Passed up GTAIII Exclusivity

[MrMeatshake]

In an interesting news story (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3150474) on 1up (http://www.1up.com/), author of new book The Xbox 360 Uncloaked Dean Takahashi claims that J Allard passed up an opportunity for MS to have exclusivity on Grand Theft Auto 3:
Under Allard, the third-party division had failed to spot Grand Theft Auto III as the killer application. Allard had organized a group of game managers to evaluate proposals for games. They asked questions of developers, such as, "What would a gamer do in 60 seconds of game play?" The process was secretive, and it had been nicknamed "The Star Chamber," ... Unfortunately for Microsoft, the Star Chamber turned down the proposal from RockStar games for Grand Theft Auto III.
There's also more evidence of bad management around the buying of Rare in the story. Not what the fanbois want to hear, but to be fair I'm sure with hindsight you could write a similar story about many people who have to make big decisions.

[swiftdraw]

Not what the fanbois want to hear, but to be fair I'm sure with hindsight you could write a similar story about many people who have to make big decisions.

Anyine remember Atari not buying Nintendo when they had a chance?

[askheaves]

To be fair, they've made some good decisions too. This one, however, smacks of decisions about gaming being made by non-gamers.

Kind of indicitive of MS and follows the same trends you saw after the news of the Vista Shakeup.

[Reanimated]

Thank god they have pushed that idiot into obscurity.

[CaptStu]

Thank god they have pushed that idiot into obscurity.
What is he doing now in obscurity? Seriously, did MS intentionally push him out of the spotlight? Seems like it.

[Citizen Philip]

For those that don't know, this is what the Star Chamber is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_chamber

Fun!

[slink-jadranko]

What is he doing now in obscurity? Seriously, did MS intentionally push him out of the spotlight? Seems like it.

Peter Moore was asked by, i think Eurogamer, about this and he kind of skirted the issue a few times then said that Allard is very busy and shit (snowboarding and so forth) so he's just taking the role he had, for Live. And that instead of he, Moore and some other guy dealing with the press, Moore will do it all himself.

[fitbabits]

Thank god they have pushed that idiot into obscurity.
Oh how I feel for you... Or rather, how I will feel for you in the not-too-distant future when J resurfaces from his hiatus.

[Xerxes]

Ok... Way to go epic for getting more RAM but MS is still pretty non-gamer led they way their first party titles come out...I mean who apprived grabbed by the ghoulies.

[Taco]

Woopsie.

I hated Allard. Mostly it was his poser look, that I'm sure he put on for the camera and took off when he was off it. No clue how he is behind the scenes(even the best have colossal fuckups ;)), but he's better there.

[King Drewsky]

It is worth noting that the first two grand theft auto games did not have great reviews or sales.

[Megalith]

He was fired.

[fitbabits]

He was fired.
$10 says otherwise. Put your money where your mouth is, Megalith. Or are you trolling again?

[slink-jadranko]

$10 says otherwise. Put your money where your mouth is, Megalith. Or are you trolling again?

As I posted before, Allard is still head of the Xbox Live stuff.

[fitbabits]

As I posted before, Allard is still head of the Xbox Live stuff.
I know that. I was responding to Megalith's hopeless (hopeful, perhaps) trolling.

[Royal Fool]

It is worth noting that the first two grand theft auto games did not have great reviews or sales.
Yes, this is sort of true. When GTA3 first appeared, it didn't get any huge coverage by gaming sites or magazines, just the usual little previews. Nobody seemed to realize the potential this game had for sales (GTA3, GTA:VC and GTA:SA are all crazy top-sellers on the PS2).

As a big fan of the first games, I remember seeing the first news on GTA3 on GameSpot way back. It's kind of funny, I was thinking "Man, this game is gonna be so cool!". And then, only after all the glowing reviews were published, it really started getting noticed.

[Reanimated]

Oh how I feel for you... Or rather, how I will feel for you in the not-too-distant future when J resurfaces from his hiatus.





He's not coming back. Trust me on that.

[fitbabits]

He's not coming back. Trust me on that.
State your source. I have been led to believe otherwise.

[motor]

He's not coming back. Trust me on that.

If the rumors I've heard are true, Reanimated is correct, he won't be coming back. He might still work for Microsoft but he won't be in a position of authority. It's not a performance issue (although I think J has made a lot of mistakes), it has to do with a human resources issue and some people that worked under him (ie he treated someone badly).

[Heretic Machine]

Ya, I was a fan of the old GTA games, so I was excited about GTA3. But at the time, I didn't have a PS2, and only ended up buying one to get GTA: VC. I'm glad I now have a PS2, but the GTA franchise is basically the whole reason I got one. It can move consoles.

Anyhow, I could understand passing it up, but I'm sure it's a real pain to remember now.

[benig]

Honestly, if you had played GTA 1 and 2, you wouldn't have been that excited about 3

[Roc Ingersol]

oooh, definitive statements of webtron rumor. Teh Drah-ma!

[bKangy]

Remember when Nintendo backed out of making the Playstation with Sony? Things always look stupid in hindsight. I know today I could have done many things better, but I didn't so I deal with what I've got.

[Reanimated]

State your source. I have been led to believe otherwise.



A college buddy of mine works at Ensemble. Allard isn't coming back to his previous position, or anything remotely resembling it. Can't say much more than that.

[peeweejd]

Ok... Way to go epic for getting more RAM but MS is still pretty non-gamer led they way their first party titles come out...I mean who apprived grabbed by the ghoulies.

i hear grabbed by the ghoulies was originally supposed to be a gamecube game.

also, its pretty damn fun. my kid wanted it and one day I saw it in the used games so I picked it up.

and what's wrong with having a few kids games on the system anyway?

ps: I'm not trying to defend rare, but don't diss them about grabbed by the ghoulies. go ahead and diss them for taking too long with perfect dark zero and the cruddy re-make of conker.

[AversionFX]

They passed exclusivity on GTA 3?

This might've been more interesting had it been reported... 3 years ago.

[Roc Ingersol]

I never got around to conker on the 64. I picked up the re-make and promptly wonder wth the world was smoking.

Why was that a good game again? It's a painfully slow platformer. Slow... platformer. C'mon. Can't skip the cut scenes until I've beaten the challenge? Cut scenes with horribly slow delivery.

Sitting through cringe-worthy cut sequences 18 times because of a difficult jump - It's not as fun as you might think.

What was the draw again? The squirrel was naughty ... that about it?
It's the only platinum purchase I regret.

[Xerxes]

i hear grabbed by the ghoulies was originally supposed to be a gamecube game.

also, its pretty damn fun. my kid wanted it and one day I saw it in the used games so I picked it up.

and what's wrong with having a few kids games on the system anyway?

ps: I'm not trying to defend rare, but don't diss them about grabbed by the ghoulies. go ahead and diss them for taking too long with perfect dark zero and the cruddy re-make of conker.

Didn't they buy rare for like $400 million... Grabbed by the ghoulies isn't going to cut it...

[miah]

Honestly, if you had played GTA 1 and 2, you wouldn't have been that excited about 3

I had lots of fun with both GTA1 and 2, I played them primarily on the PSX, but played GTA2 on the Dreamcast *alot*. Its a very challenging game.

[miah]

Anyine remember Atari not buying Nintendo when they had a chance?

Can you remember Atari ever making a smart decision though?

[Coolnut]

GTA3 sold mainly because of the controversy surrounding it. I barely heard of GTA2, and the first GTA played like shit, IMO.

BTW, there was no opportunity for Atari to buy Nintendo. Nintendo DID give Atari an opportunity to distribute and market the NES in America. Atari refused; the crash was so great that they were the only American survivor, and felt that it was too much of a "niche" for another company. The rest became history.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[OrangePulp]

Something interesting about the article, when it's talking about making the CD-ROMs for PSX:

After they went through the manufacturing process, they could be burned with game data. So it was only a matter of days between the time it took to order and the time the CDs could be shipped to store shelves.

Now, based on what I know of the Sony Disc Manufacturing Plant that used to be in operation around here (Springfield, Oregon, and I live in Eugene), from my dad who used to work there, this is bullshit. The CDs aren't manufactured and then burned; they're stamped out with a master. The machine injects hot plastic, and the master stamps it into the cd.

[drakkarim]

with everyone and their dog now doing GTA equivalent drivel, the only thing 'exclusive' about the original is the title.

that and the stink pile of controversy about the last fiasco with the game makes me think they're trying to cash in on their name to boost themselves as they see the writing on the wall (i.e. there's others that can do what they do just as "well").

i'm sure allard was considering it, but the GTA egos got in the way and they probably wanted one too many zeros in the price for this 'exclusivity'.

in any case, i don't exactly think of GTA when i think of "next gen console games"...

[Busted_Astromech]

Some thoughts on the article:

Wow, Allard sure comes out bad in this.

Ken Lobb says Rare and Nintendo had disagreements over how much games should cost: Rare wanting $20 million, Nintendo telling the $2. Of course, after seeing what they did with $20 million in Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo I'd have to agree. Better tech or not, they still pale next to Rare's N64 days.

And the RAM bump (from 256 to 512) is explained as a bad decision, in that it cost Microsoft money. Uh, how about it future-proofed the console against the PS3?

Good read, though. It lets you in on how the Xbox division works.

[Balthasar]

A college buddy of mine works at Ensemble. Allard isn't coming back to his previous position, or anything remotely resembling it. Can't say much more than that.
Out of curiosity, what is Ensemble?

[Balthasar]

I know that. I was responding to Megalith's hopeless (hopeful, perhaps) trolling.
Not to sound like a troll as well, but can we at least admit that his stunts/"image" was, at the least very lame and completely unnecessary? Considering the only people that even know who he is are hard core gamers, the idea that I need some corporate head acting like what he sees as the stereotypical gamer so he can be "down" with us was pretty insulting. Then again, a lot of you seemed to like the act, and believed in it, so maybe I'm preaching to the wrong choir.

[bapenguin]

Out of curiosity, what is Ensemble?

Ensemble Studios (http://www.ensemblestudios.com/)

[Balthasar]

Ensemble Studios (http://www.ensemblestudios.com/)
So J Allard used to work there?

[Taco]

MS owns them, I'm pretty sure. There could have been interactions between the two.

[SaintArnold]

Very interesting read. And intruiging news about J "Mr. Extreme" Allard. I can't say I'll miss all his penis-waving.

[Taco]

I wonder if he pierced it.

/not really

[Tinderbox]

So J Allard used to work there?

MS owns them like they own Bungie and Rare.

[Balthasar]

MS owns them like they own Bungie and Rare.
So how does someone working for one of those companies get an inside scoop on J Allard's job status? Anyway, I don't care that much, so long as I don't have to hear about how much of a HARDCORE GAMER this tool is.

[UglyPimp]

To echo some other user posts, GTA 1 was really interesting as it was pretty original when it debuted. I remember being addicted to it for hours then finally I got bored and uninstalled it. GTA 2, though, was awful. I can't blame MS for not wanting to have this title under their belt after the previous iterations.

This quote though:

"It wasn't Microsoft's kind of game, since it was a gritty crime game with foul language, abusive treatment of women, and cop killing. Microsoft had a corporate image to maintain and, like Electronic Arts, it avoided that category. "

Sounds like speculation. The XBOX was pretty much slanted towards the mature demographic, so I sincerely doubt that MS refused Rockstars proposal purely based on its content. If anything it would have been a tool for MS to promote it's 18-35 demographic that it wanted to capture. How much fact that book contains is questionable.

[FreshyK]

I always wished J Allard would come back because he makes me laugh. It seems that will never happen. :(

[DudeWheresMyXbox]

To be fair, they've made some good decisions too. This one, however, smacks of decisions about gaming being made by non-gamers.
You've got it backwards.

This is what happens when MS hands over millions of dollars to a few hardcore gamers (J, Seamus and friends) and lets them pick favorites and try to change other game developers into making games they want to play.

[Wasson_]

Apparently me and "J" Allard have something in common...

My middle name is just "J"....doesn't stand for anything.