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View Full Version : 3D Gaming, What it's Like


Anenome
10-18-2010, 03:10 AM
There is a way that you can experience 3D right now, in your own home, on your regular monitor, and get an idea of what 3D will be like. If you've never experienced 3D gaming in any way, which is probably true for most of us, this will give you a taste.

This system uses the cross-eyed technique, which is a fantastic way to view 3D video. I'll start by giving you guys a helpful demo video designed to teach you how to perfect the cross-eyed technique to see 3D video, then we'll move on to slideshows of 3D scenes, and finally actual 3D gaming videos as you'll eventually find them on the 3DS and future gaming systems.

(I should emphasize, just in case, that the 3DS does not require you to cross your eyes to see the 3D effect. This article is just to give you a taste of what you'll eventually see on the 3DS given the tools available to us. Also note that not all of these are going to be 3DS games, but just demonstrate the principle of 3D gaming visually.)

((BTW, you may need to change the 3D mode of the player to "Cross Eyed" upon the first view. You can do that in the menu at the bottom right of the video player, labeled "3D".))

How to / practice video.
I'll warn you up front that if the video seems really blurry while your eyes are crossed, it's because you are way too close to the screen. Sit back! Back up 4-5 feet, roll the chair back from your desk, and your eyes will focus naturally, and you won't feel any eye strain either if you're at the proper distance:
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Super Smash Bros: Brawl
Via camera hack 3D. This is a slide-show of the cool SSB:B models in attack pose, but features an extreme amount of depth cue. You may have to move back more than usual to view it comfortably. It's also rather pleasing just how deep the depth cue is, how very noticeable it is compared to some of the other vids.

We might call this "hyper-depth" or "hyper-cue-3D" because of the surreal amounts of depth cue. In real life, this much depth-cue would only exist on things that were extremely large. Imagine each character model being roughly the size of the Statue of Liberty, you can then imagine how getting this much depth cue is possible IRL.

This would also be an example of a depth-cue that's so extreme that it draws attention to itself, ie - bad 3D. Although, if we think about what emotional effect 3D has on viewers, I would prefer to have a bit more 3D effect than is seen in real life, because it creates a feeling of epic scope. The extreme 3D and slide-show nature also makes it a good practice vid:
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Zelda: Majora's Mask Intro
I'd like to see a bit stronger 3D effect here. Although, perhaps that's why the 3DS contains a "3D Effect" slider allowing you to increase or decrease the "degree" of 3D being seen. Compare this to Smash Bros vid above and you'll see exactly what I mean:
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Super Mario Galaxy 2
This seems to have just the right amount / degree of 3D effect, Nintendo nails it.
Testcase is right, this is straight 2D. Interesting that there's so many other depth-cues here that it can be tough to tell sometimes. I stand corrected, ty Testcase :)
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Zelda: Ocarina of Time
This video highlights several important challenges 3D faces. First you'll notice the floating user-interface. Where in 3D space should designers place the interface, at what depth? Here you'll see it relatively closer to the viewer than to your character--and it hurts. I think that's a mistake, you should be able to see it naturally when focusing on your character. In fact, putting it just a bit deeper than the focal-distance of your character is likely the sweet spot.

Secondly, you'll see rather severe "3D artifacting" which is the failure of pixels to line up to maintain the 3D effect. This is a problem for game engines that have not been designed from the ground up to operate in 3D. Other artifacts can include things like shadows and reflections not lining up. In real life we have this happen all the time; one eye may see a reflection the other doesn't, etc. So it's not too unusual. It creates a shimmering effect on our view as each eye attempts to assert dominance of what it is seeing within your brain, and your brain tries to reconcile the two differing views. But take it too far and it becomes weird in a game.
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Pilotwings 64
This appears to be another engine hacked to display 3D, but again we have some artifacting. The clouds display some depth-cue pop, seeming to jump back and forth. And, strangely, the sky above the horizon seems closer than the sea-horizon itself does :P But the 3D cue-degree is fairly nice, and the closeups of tree and light-post are handled well too.
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Excite Bike 64
Really nice, the strongly textured ground and shading of terrain-grades makes the 3D quite pleasing. Seems the racing genre will benefit strongly from the coming 3D renaissance.
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Mass Effect 2
This is a cool vid, but it highlights a couple points. Notice the UI is subsumed deeper than even the character you play. This works and I like it. But the reticule is extremely poor. For several of the shots it's literally unusable because its focal length and the thing you're trying to focus on are at very different depths.

This reminds me that in real life people close one eye to aim, so perhaps you could just deliver the reticule site to a single eye, and then you could avoid the focal problem altogether. However, that's not satisfying. The other option is to put the reticule at "infinite focal depth". This would probably avoid all problems with it, but look a bit weird at close range. A third solution is to have the reticule stay at infinite depth and move up to the focal depth of anything it focuses on.
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L4D
Obviously not slated for 3DS release. However, realize that cross-eyed 3D technique we're using here does accurately model the horizontal resolution loss experienced in the real 3DS, as two pixels are used to provide depth-cue information by melding them into a single pixel in the brain perception.
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L4D2
Perfect example of bad Z-placement of the UI, it's right in your face requiring a massive focal-shift to use. Though, this also has a perfectly placed reticule, well placed in the BG, so go figure. The amount / degree of depth-cue is quite pleasing.
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COD:MW2
Quite interesting, several UI and reticule issues pop up here again, like the floating crosshair.
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Halo: Reach
In 3D, with terrible music.
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Flatout 2
Here the UI is done right, it has been pushed into the mid-ground so much that the lower UI elements appear to be subsumed into the ground--but this is perfectly okay, it's still completely usable, and more importantly, at the right focal depth.
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WoW in 3D
WoW is so UI-heavy that it's quite noticeable how flat the UI is here in 3D. So flat that it's boring. If I were them I'd experiment with a non-flat UI somehow to add interest and utility were it to go 3D. Also, the UI appears too close to the viewer.
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Burnout Paradise
Fantastic, one of the best presentations in 3D yet. UI works extremely well too.
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WoW: Lich King Trailer
Extremely good. It was impressive in 2D, moreso in 3D. This is what can be done when you do high quality 3D with high-quality models. You can see the very dips and curves in his armor and fingers, you feel them.
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By request of Agnostic Pope:
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You sick, sick puppy ;P

lockwoodx
10-18-2010, 03:15 AM
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1054/lldastardlydeed.jpg

Suicidal ShiZuru
10-18-2010, 04:35 AM
http://imgur.com/30mjf.jpg


NO NO! NO!! NO!!! NO!!!!

I will never fucking touch 3D gaming again. Nvidia 3D vision? COMPLETE AND UTTER SHIT. HAve fun with your headaches though. It will not get better any time soon now stop fantasizing and take your meds.

Nice post though. :cool:

brandonjclark
10-18-2010, 07:31 AM
I can't do it..... or at least... after about thirty seconds my eyes started to hurt and I quit trying....

sixtyfps
10-18-2010, 07:46 AM
That Super Mario Galaxy 2 trailer ("Nintendo nails it") was *not* in 3D.

Testcase
10-18-2010, 07:49 AM
Its cool in a small dose, I can't imagine doing that for a whole gaming session.

Major Dan
10-18-2010, 08:06 AM
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1054/lldastardlydeed.jpg

That is some funny shit and TRUE too!

Anenome
10-18-2010, 12:19 PM
Well, again, you won't have to try nearly as hard to see 3D on the 3DS :P The cross-eyed technique is just a stop-gap measure.

Also, I won't be surprised if cross-eyed 3D is how a lot of future 3D games get marketed to give you an idea of how the 3D effect plays out.

Brandon: Cross your eyes by looking at your nose, then hold it and try to notice the screen.

Anenome
10-18-2010, 03:03 PM
NO NO! NO!! NO!!! NO!!!!

I will never fucking touch 3D gaming again. Nvidia 3D vision? COMPLETE AND UTTER SHIT. HAve fun with your headaches though. It will not get better any time soon now stop fantasizing and take your meds.

Nice post though. :cool:
Great picture ;)

According to a recent study I read on the subject, or news post of a study at least (lol), it's not 3D that causes headaches, it's bad 3D that causes headaches.

When devs are making 3D games specifically to be 3D, the headache problem will disappear. Also, your eyes adapt quite quickly to new "visual paradigms" (hey, I like that phrase), and a day's worth of gaming on a GOOD 3D platform would likely remove your distaste for it :P

You see, bad 3D does things like create negative depth in the midst of objects, and reverse depth cues, like putting a reverse depth on an object that is shaded for positive depth, creating a situation that literally teases your brain into submission.

The headache you experience is the brain-equivalent of turning the GPU-fan to high-speed while it's busy crunching heavily :P You're brain's choking on what appears to be an impossible scene.

Good 3D avoids those visual quandries and tries hard to avoid posing your optical wetware with an unsolvable problem :P

Its cool in a small dose, I can't imagine doing that for a whole gaming session.
You wouldn't be doing that for a gaming session at all (crossing your eyes) because the 3DS does not use the method shown above to achieve the 3D effect.

The 3DS uses a method that is effortless on your part as long as your eyes are in the sweet-spot (which is roughly where you'd hold the thing while playing).

Agnostic Pope
10-18-2010, 03:52 PM
Hehe Suicidal ShiZuru raged.