Broken 360? Maybe Peter Moore will call you.

[bapenguin]

Chris Szarek is a photographer for a healthcare company. He's an advid gamer and an XBox 360 fan. Unfortunately he's gone through 4 XBox 360s (http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/05/the_unluckiest_.html) due to technical issues. Microsoft replaced everyone for him quickly and at their own cost, but after a while the hasssle outweighs the customer support quality.

Microsoft knows that well, because a perceived quality problem caused a lot of gamers in Japan to stay away from the original Xbox in 2002, hurting the momentum of console sales so much they never recovered. The lesson is that companies have to act fast to address quality or be prepared to deal with public relations problems.

This time, Microsoft has been moving quickly to deal with complaints. Szarek has gotten swift responses from Microsoft lately, including an apologetic call last week from its top Xbox executive, Peter Moore.
Wow...talk about damage control. I still can't believe people are having quality issues 6 months into the release. I would have thought they worked themselves out by now.

[Eggplant!]

I hear ya. I just bought my 360 and it has lockup issues. I waited until the second wave in hopes that I would avoid the initial shipment issues that seem to plague just about any console. But no. MS has been nice about it, but it sure is a hassle.

[Zawath]

People just don't know how to handle those consoles. You aren't supposed to drop them on the floor from 10 feet nor keep them in very tight space where they overheat. Sure he blaims the technical difficulties but you can't just destroy 4 Xboxes just by playing with them.

[bapenguin]

People just don't know how to handle those consoles. You aren't supposed to drop them on the floor from 10 feet nor keep them in very tight space where they overheat. Sure he blaims the technical difficulties but you can't just destroy 4 Xboxes just by playing with them.

That's a bit extreme. Microsoft also has a responsibility to make the console durable to some degree. And if it DOES have some sort of finnicky requirement, they have a responsibility to communicate that to the customer.

[Balthasar]

Wow...talk about damage control. I still can't believe people are having quality issues 6 months into the release. I would have thought they worked themselves out by now.
I wonder how much of this is due to Microsoft rushing the system to get it out before PS3.

[Lord Dongkey]

That's odd... I recall a drunken session of Mario Party where some controller cords were kicked, the gamecube jumped out of a 5 foot high enclosure, bounced across the room, and still worked.

But then, that's "inferior hardware", which I'm sure is *far* less delicate than the Xbox 360's super-duper mega-crazy dongle-wangaflop pizzies.

But seriously, computer hardware shouldn't be this flimsy nor this heat sensitive. My personal PC at home has gotten wacked a few good ones, had a video card at 95 degress Celsius, and in general, saw the spectrum of abuse (until I recently upgraded it so there's roughly 130cfm airflow through the case, but hey)... and my PC WORKS.

Xbox 360 hardware reminds me of all the other "pre-manufactured computer" hardware (dell/gateway/compaq/hp)... cutting corners never gets better results, and never gives better durability. The trick is to figure out where the balance in cutting corners and reliability of product lies.

Microsoft did not find that balance point.

[rein]

People just don't know how to handle those consoles. You aren't supposed to drop them on the floor from 10 feet nor keep them in very tight space where they overheat. Sure he blaims the technical difficulties but you can't just destroy 4 Xboxes just by playing with them.

It is very noble of you to defend Microsofts product but you fail to realize that not every system is being dropped 10 feet or confined to tight spaces. Some (we do not know exact numbers) are just defective. If Peter Moore called this guy, it is most likely legit defectives. This poor guy is one unlucky bastard. I am sure the call from Peter Moore makes up for the hassle though.

[AniAko]

That's a bit extreme. Microsoft also has a responsibility to make the console durable to some degree. And if it DOES have some sort of finnicky requirement, they have a responsibility to communicate that to the customer.

Well there's another side of this. I played the CRAP out of NHL2k6. The game was buggy as hell. It constantly said the wrong names, or showed the wrong pictures, or the opposing teams center wouldn't be on the mark for the face off. The list goes on and on. I had a severe lockup with the game once. It was after a few hours of play. I can't help but believe it was the GAME's fault for the lockup, not my 360. It makes me wonder how many problems are because of non-*** software, not hardware.

[bapenguin]

I wonder how much of this is due to Microsoft rushing the system to get it out before PS3.

I'm sure that's a large part of it. I also think part of it is the sheer complexity of these consoles now. For the most part it's unproven, extremely fast and powerful hardware crammed into the smallest box possible.

[phantomhitman]

Unless you get a red ring of death XBOX 360 LOCKUP, it is not the xbox always causing it. Some games are just crappy, and lock up more than others. I have only had my system lockup on 2 games, oblivion and pgr3. Oblivion locked 2 times, both on loading screens. PGR3 has an issue with the guide button, sometimes it will lock when going to the guide button while online in a game. It never locks up during gameplay online or off, its just a weird issue with the guide button.

I really hope all game and hardware issues are cleared up, and I hope the ps3 has no issues. I will own and play both.

[GunnyMo]

Did we all forget we are still not even a year into the 360's launch? Of course, as BA said above, a highly technical and new piece of hardware is going to have problems. If someone can't accept that then they shouldn't be being anything electronic in the first place.

I think that people are constantly looking for any reason to complain about MS. Let's use the great and all loved Sony as an example. PS2, great system when it works, has been continually flawed throughout it's entire life cycle. The Disc Read Error, I think, has replaced the Blue Screen of Death as the running joke in the gaming community. Sony refused to acknowledge the problem until they were forced to by a class action lawsuit several years after the system's launch. Let that sink in: they refused to even acknowledge there was a problem with their system. "Our product is perfect! It would never break! It must be your fault, Consumer!" To this day I see more broken PS2s on a weekly basis than XB and the occassional GC.

My point? MS customer support has been outstanding in taking care of the issues with the 360. They acknowledge the flaws and work with customers to get the issue resolved. Do you think that Ken Kutaragi would ever call a customer to apologize for his broken product?

Before people jump on the MS hating wagon they should step back and realize a couple of things: 1) It is a system launch, bugs will happen but they are within acceptable norms (95%, rough guess, of systems work just fine); 2) MS is taking care of the issue quickly and efficiently unlike their competition which blames YOU, the consumer, for the problems.

No, I'm not a MS fanboy. It just bugs the crap out of me that because Sony has a larger brand awareness everyone thinks they are so wonderful and could never make a mistake.

/flame away

[Borys]

http://home.comcast.net/~pocketfudge/broke.gif

[MosBen]

Yeah, if there is a flaw in design it's not going to work itself out for at least a year. I remember the first batch of PS2s took about 9 months of reasonably solid play before they had problems, and the first Xbox DRE errors took even longer. It's all about play time, if there's a weak component the hardcore people are going to find it early on and complain about it while people that play less will have their complaints trickle in over more time.

My guess is still that hardware failure is overreported on the internet and that while this particular story may be true, it's certainly reletively unique. There will always be a certain percentage of hardware failure in a new machine, and even if MS is above that average with the 360 it's still probably not the widespread failure you might think from the internet. Obviously, this opinion isn't based on any statistical knowledge of failure rates, but on well earned skepticism of the gaming community and its gripes.

Hell, wasn't it a few months ago that there was a news story about companies hiring people to go on forums and rave about their games? It's not a very large logical step to wonder if there are people paid to complain about the competition's machine failure. Not that I'm advocating paranoia, but until I see some kind of real numbers on machine failure rates I'm going to remain skeptical about the number of machine failures.

[AniAko]

Yeah, if there is a flaw in design it's not going to work itself out for at least a year. I remember the first batch of PS2s took about 9 months of reasonably solid play before they had problems, and the first Xbox DRE errors took even longer. It's all about play time, if there's a weak component the hardcore people are going to find it early on and complain about it while people that play less will have their complaints trickle in over more time.

My guess is still that hardware failure is overreported on the internet and that while this particular story may be true, it's certainly reletively unique. There will always be a certain percentage of hardware failure in a new machine, and even if MS is above that average with the 360 it's still probably not the widespread failure you might think from the internet. Obviously, this opinion isn't based on any statistical knowledge of failure rates, but on well earned skepticism of the gaming community and its gripes.

Hell, wasn't it a few months ago that there was a news story about companies hiring people to go on forums and rave about their games? It's not a very large logical step to wonder if there are people paid to complain about the competition's machine failure. Not that I'm advocating paranoia, but until I see some kind of real numbers on machine failure rates I'm going to remain skeptical about the number of machine failures.

Plus you have to remember some ranges of models of PS2's had those shitty lasers that died out quickly. That was MUCH longer after the initial release systems started having those problems. It's just another fact of consumer electronics

[Balthasar]

http://home.comcast.net/~pocketfudge/broke.gif
What happens when that last section lights up?

"Small death?"

[KamaItachi]

What happens when that last section lights up?



http://www.sorgonet.com/tordera/computer/hal9000/hal.jpg
?

[bapenguin]

http://www.sorgonet.com/tordera/computer/hal9000/hal.jpg
?

LOL! Hello Dave. Your 360 is dead Dave. I've taken over Dave.

[The Flash]

I think that's pretty pimp for Peter Moore to directly call up this guy and apologize. Definitely deserves some respect.

[AntB]

Hello, Dan?

[Stormwatcher]

Yeah, shitty and very expensive eletronics are to be expected, stop complaining, Baaaaa. Baaaaaa. Baaaaaa.

[Borys]

What happens when that last section lights up?


Bill Gates calls and apologises.

[WileE.Coyte]

I went through 2 Xbox's last gen. The first one blew after 3 years. My friend went through 3 PS 2 and 3 Xbox's. He is a very hardcore player though. I honestly feel that it depends on how long you play. The question is was he really playing Rumble Roses or did it finally quit after a 15hr straight Oblivion session?

[BabyJesus]

What happens when that last section lights up?

"Small death?"

Borys gets to have sex with a PS2.

[Hellstorm]

Funny thing is, I never had any problems like this with a Nintendo or Sega console. I mean patches for console games? LOL. Remember when MS said that would never happen?

[EvlD99]

What happens when that last section lights up?

"Small death?"

It means that you don't have the video cable hooked up properly. Alot of people fail to read the manual before complaining.

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;909335

[Knite]

Hey look! I can do it too Borys!

http://www.geocities.com/djyayo/DRE.jpg

hehehe ;-)

Oh, and KamaItachi... AWESOME =)

[Citizen Philip]

I paid over $500 for my PC video card. I expect performance, constantly and with no technical issues. Don't make up excuses for problems, no matter how you want to love them. Period.

There are problems and they should have been, at least detected, before launch and dealt with then.

[motor]

Man, the shills are really coming out in force on this post! My 360 has worked fine, but judging by my friends and co-workers with consoles (and since my co-workers are game developers, none of us are drop kicking our consoles around the room), the hardware is a little more buggy then usual, BUT microsoft has been as good as possible from a customer service level. My only concern is the long-term prospects for the machine. I really don't hope there are a slew of machine failures a year from now. I got away with only buiying one PS2 and one xbox, I'd like to do the same this generation.

[EvlD99]

I paid over $500 for my PC video card. I expect performance, constantly and with no technical issues. Don't make up excuses for problems, no matter how you want to love them. Period.

There are problems and they should have been, at least detected, before launch and dealt with then.

Uhh... So you have never had to replace a computer part b/c it was faulty? I have exchanged 3 RAM sticks and 1 Video card all covered under warranty. The video card even had a sticker that had an inspectors number on it.

Defective electronics from all companies get by the inspectors and testers. If you don't believe me go to the official forums of your $500 video card. I choose to stick with the companies that handle the problems the best.

[Deadend]

Talk about bad luck for that guy. He also got ahold of the local paper to get himself exposed. I would love to see a Google-map mashup with broken 360 locations and types of errors. As in theory, the broken 360s should be spread far and wide evenly over the US.

[Yeti2005]

I've had to replace my 360 once but they got it back to me in about 4 days. Honestly I think only Apple has the same or better customer service. No one else I've dealt with even comes close.

[Borys]

Borys gets to have sex with a PS2.

Nothing like some high-school humour.

Hey look! I can do it too Borys!


Awesome!

Now we only need the GCN DRE screen!
I thinks it's the most shitty DRE screen I've ever seen - simple white text on a black background.

[Citizen Philip]

Uhh... So you have never had to replace a computer part b/c it was faulty? I have exchanged 3 RAM sticks and 1 Video card all covered under warranty. The video card even had a sticker that had an inspectors number on it.

Defective electronics from all companies get by the inspectors and testers. If you don't believe me go to the official forums of your $500 video card. I choose to stick with the companies that handle the problems the best.

Maybe your misunderstanding. Yes, technical issues can exsist in any electronic hardware purchase you make, but I don't feel the need to make up excuses for their lack of quality or what have you. Every company I believe by law, is obligated to some extent for their failure to deliver a functional product to a consumer, i.e. warranty and exchange periods. Giving them a pat on the back for doing what their suppose to is retarded.

I've had one faulty dual channel DIMM. I bought 2 sets of matched pairs, the other pair worked perfectly and the company replaced them. As is expected. Now if I replaced them twice, three or four times because they were repeatedly faulty: I would be pissed off and not buy their stuff again.

This poor guy is obviously an exception, as many people are continuing to enjoy their purchase: this was aimed at apologists, such as yourself? :confused:

[Eggplant!]

People just don't know how to handle those consoles. You aren't supposed to drop them on the floor from 10 feet nor keep them in very tight space where they overheat. Sure he blaims the technical difficulties but you can't just destroy 4 Xboxes just by playing with them.

Well, of the three people I know with 360s (inlcuding myself) two of us have had to have them replaced. We are all adults with real jobs, and I assure you we know how to handle electronics.

From my perspective, the defect rates on 360s has been high.

[BabyJesus]

Nothing like some high-school humour.

Yep, I figured it'd be right up your alley.

[Metal Jesus]

I think the way Microsoft is handling these issues with the X360 is commendable. It's hard to imagine Sony actually giving a crap if the same things were happening with the PS3. Look at how Sony handled the sticky button problems with the first wave of the PSP. They told gamers to essentially suck up and quit whining!

[Zurik]

Funny thing is, I never had any problems like this with a Nintendo or Sega console. I mean patches for console games? LOL. Remember when MS said that would never happen?

I know, its the main reason I've avoided the 360. Honestly, its a damn console, not a PC.

[ChopFoo]

I have a 360 and I have 7 (real life) friends with 360's (that's 8 total). Everyone of us is between the age of 27 and 32. We are all careful with them. None of us have roomates or children that could mess with them without our knowledge. Of the 8 of us, 4 of us (including myself) have had to have a replacement shipped out. That's 50%. MS was very polite and helpful, but a 50% fail rate is pretty amazing.

(Yeah, yeah - you could call that a 50% success rate, but still.)

[agentgray]

...snipped...
/flame away
Your name is purple. Did I miss something?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

LOL! Hello Dave. Your 360 is dead Dave. I've taken over Dave.

You're fucked Dave... :D


Funny thing is, I never had any problems like this with a Nintendo or Sega console. I mean patches for console games? LOL. Remember when MS said that would never happen?


I called them on it back then and said it was a lie. Of course that's all forgotten now. :rolleyes:


I know, its the main reason I've avoided the 360. Honestly, its a damn console, not a PC.


The lines continue to blur...


Your name is purple. Did I miss something?


I was wondering about that as well. Did he come out of the colour closet or something?

[Mav]

People just don't know how to handle those consoles. You aren't supposed to drop them on the floor from 10 feet nor keep them in very tight space where they overheat. Sure he blaims the technical difficulties but you can't just destroy 4 Xboxes just by playing with them.

So when you take uber precautions to not drop the console, leave it in a wide open space clear of carpet and other areas where it might overheat and keep it in the proper position so it doesn't scratch disks, it's still your own fault when the system goes kaput?

[benjabean]

Ok,

Let's look at this situation logically. The call from Peter Moore obviously is not the norm. I wonder if this guy maybe had a high profile rant on a blog or something to warrant this much attention from MS. Also, 4 systems going haywire is not the norm either, but I think it is ridiculous for people to ignore the obvious problems that MS has had with the 360. It has been rushed and this is apparant in their product.

Is it as bad as Sony's hardware? No way!!! To the person that wanted to say that we all think that Sony puts out fantastic hardware, I want to say WAKE UP!!!!

Who thinks this?

Friends Vaio=broke and sent in for repairs; My 1st mini-disc=broke and sent in for repairs; My 2nd mini-disc=short in the button panel; My 1st PS2=broke sent in for repairs; 2nd PS2=broke sent in for repairs; 3rd PS2 currently have, but I have terrible DRE problems with it... The list could go on and on.

Relatedly, I am not one who treats their hardware roughly either. I am almost obsessed with taking care of my boxes, games, and consoles. I blow out dust regularly, and clean them reguarly. I also make sure they are kept off carpet and placed in areas where they can readily receive ventilation.

So when my 3rd PS2 has to be turned onto its top just to play a PS1 game it begins to get ludicrous.

BUT This is the reality we have to face when conglomerates control our products. Neither MS or Sony live or die by the PS2 or XBOX brand. Neither are videogames their main focus. So when you get one dept. saying lets make X, and you get another unrelated dept. saying lets let them make X, but for X amount of dollars, and yet still another dept. saying it has to be released by X amount of time in X fiscal quater then that is when you get the problems we have today.

This is not a fanboy talking when I say that this is why Nintendo products work so well. They eat, breath, and live videogames. Their company lives and dies by their product. (Now only if they could get a few other things right for a change.)

This is also why Macintosh customers remain so loyal. The only reason I went with the 5th gen ipod as opposed to Sony's smaller 30gb music player is that I have had SO many problems with Sony products.

Yes, I plan on getting a PS3, but I am also ready to accept that it WILL have major problems. I will also be ready to report my problems to Sony. But If Wii and PS3 launch on the same day, I can tell you right now I am getting a Wii, and I will wait for all of you to weed out the problems the PS3 will have.

peace