Future Oblivion Downloads for Purchase Announced

[The Continental]

The much maligned horse armor addon is now available for purchase by PC users for $1.99. Along with the horse armor, the purchase site (https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreCatalog_ProductList.aspx?SubCategoryId=1) also has a few small images and brief summaries of future content.

https://obliviondownloads.com/images/product/obliv_orrery_pcstore2.jpg

Orrery - Harness the power of the stars. Rebuild the defiled Orrery and unlock the secrets of this Mages Guild Inner Sanctum.https://obliviondownloads.com/images/product/obliv_wiztower_pcstore2.jpg

Wizard's Tower - In the frozen mountains of Cyrodiil stands Frostcrag Spire, a tower of wonders for your magic-oriented character to call home.
Screw horse armor, this is the kind of content I'd be willing to pay for.

[gzsfrk]

Looks like Bethesda wasted no time with damage control for all the ill-will generated by their ill-conceived horse armor mod and its ridiculous pricing.

I hope future content will be priced appropriately (i.e. Not $10 each for the above two mods).

[Borys]

Much, much better.

Thumbs up!

[Derella]

I plan to buy both of these. They are both listed as $1.99 also.

[ezzkmo]

Hell yeah. I was a sucker for the horse armor so now my black horse looks pimp, and when this stuff comes out I'll have some cool new places for my mage to chill.

[JazGalaxy]

I plan to buy both of these. They are both listed as $1.99 also.

For as much sense as it DOESN'T make, this is why the scaling difficulty of badguys is such a good decision. All these content modules will fit nicely inside everyones game regardless of their level.

[laggerific]

it's fairly disgusting to me that Bethesda felt the need to have horse armor as an add on, instead of making it available inthe game. I'm just not liking what I am seeing from these guys.

[Intruder]

My only question now is, are these totally new additions to the game or simply opening up areas already coded into the game. I have seen the door to the Orarey many times but it is always locked and the guy keeps going on about how something is wrong with it. So is this totally new added content or simply opening a door to a quest that is already there, just not accessable at the moment?

[DanAmerson]

Some guys over on the GameFAQs forums were saying that they managed to get into the Orrery via some glitch on the PC version that allowed them to pick the lock on the door. They said that the room was empty inside implying that it's a mix of downloaded content and a door that's already there.

dba

[Heretic Machine]

I may buy Orrery, but only as an experiment to see how much new content is added. If it's nothing more than what I expect to see from mod community once they get their groove on, then I won't be buying any more of these from Bethesda.

[IagoTheHunted]

I don't like this at all. Why aren't those things in my $60 game to begin with? Where exactly do they get off witholding content from my game and then trying to sell it back to me to play with?? This isn't like selling ringtones for a phone, it's like selling you the last 2 seconds of the ringtone you just bought. Think about it. I mean where does this stop? Are they going to start selling us "easy" mode if the game is too hard? Or maybe that last boss battle isn't technically part of the game without the extra $20.

Fuck this. I really like Oblivion and I think the developers deserve a nice big slice of the pie for all their hard work, but this nickle-and-dime extortion does not fly with me.

[Mortis]

I'll buy that shit for $2.50.

[Mozgus]

Eh, someone will crack all these additions.

[PacerDawn]

They need to put in a pack mule, or at least bags for your horse, so you can stay out in the wilderness longer without having to run back to town every time you visit a dungeon.

(Yes, I know about the "saddlebags" mod, but it's kind of cheezy that you have to "pickpocket" your horse as opposed to opening bags, and you have unlimited weight. I'd just get the "Bag of holding" mod if I wanted that.)

I like the idea of mini-expansions. With most expansions, you have to buy the entire thing, and you may not even like half the stuff. With this, you can pick and choose.

As long as it is expansions we are talking about, and not 1 new skin. What is the purpose of "pimping your ride" in a single player game anyway???

[jeffool]

Eh, someone will crack all these additions.Yes, they will. But if you enjoy the game and want to play then, you should be willing to support the developers. Don't be an ass.

[grimjoe]

The game is great and a talented developer but why charge for everything? soon its gonna be "Download the patch for only $4.99 preordered" sigh

You dont see valve charging $1.99 for every new CS model or map that they release.

[IagoTheHunted]

Some guys over on the GameFAQs forums were saying that they managed to get into the Orrery via some glitch on the PC version that allowed them to pick the lock on the door. They said that the room was empty inside implying that it's a mix of downloaded content and a door that's already there.

dba

That's probably right but I don't think it matters. Whether or not your actually downloading content doesn't change the fact that the game just frickin' came out... are we to believe that they needed an extra week to create this breakthrough addition that they now need new revinue to support??? Of course not. It was all done at the same time and could easily have been included in the game if they didn't want to rip us off. So what if it is just $5 (or so) for all of it, we all just paid $60! We should get it!

[Swat]

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for things that will open up the game world even further and prolong my stay in Tamriel. In my opinion, the Oblivion I bought is still the great, fully featured game I plunked my hard earned money on. I'm sure there were a ton of things that were scrapped to make it into the release copy, and now they have the cycles to start working on and implementing them further.

I guess you could take the consipiracy route and say that they are merely "unlocking" sections of the game that already exist - but for some reason I don't think that's the case. They would certainly alienate their huge fanbase by doing so.

My question is - will we see a full fledged expansion (ie. Bloodmoon), a bunch of add-ons, or one big "expansion" add-on comprised of all the other add-ons? I'd almost rather hold out for the "big one" instead of all the micro changes. I think after playing the hell out of Oblivion, it would be a nice way to get back into the game after I'm finished with the exploring and quest lines.

So what do you think. Micro-transactioned to death or full fledged expansion debuting at E3 2007?

[DropD98]

That's probably right but I don't think it matters. Whether or not your actually downloading content doesn't change the fact that the game just frickin' came out... are we to believe that they needed an extra week to create this breakthrough addition that they now need new revinue to support??? Of course not. It was all done at the same time and could easily have been included in the game if they didn't want to rip us off. So what if it is just $5 (or so) for all of it, we all just paid $60! We should get it!

You are "getting ripped off" only if you think it's not worth the money but buy it anyway. Then that would be your fault. No one is forcing you, or any of us, to buy it. Besides, there have been plenty of games where the developers have said there where things they took out or wanted to put in but didn't because of time. I figure some of this is that kind of stuff. Plus, this just gives them a way to make more money offering things that they think we gamers might just want. It's a business and they are in this to make money. I cannot believe that they are offering these to "rip us off", as you say... I think that's stretching it a bit...

[jeffool]

My question is - will we see a full fledged expansion (ie. Bloodmoon), a bunch of add-ons, or one big "expansion" add-on comprised of all the other add-ons? I'd almost rather hold out for the "big one" instead of all the micro changes. I think after playing the hell out of Oblivion, it would be a nice way to get back into the game after I'm finished with the exploring and quest lines.Actually, bap if you're reading this, THAT is a question I would love to have answered before I ever think about buying a small addon. Is it likely (or even possible) that it will be included-in or invalidated-by by later, larger, official addons?

[Derella]

Actually, bap if you're reading this, THAT is a question I would love to have answered before I ever think about buying a small addon. Is it likely (or even possible) that it will be included-in or invalidated-by by later, larger, official addons?
Now THAT would be a good way of pissing off the people who spent money on these mini add-ons.

[GrinR]

Come ON folks!? I won't need MORE Oblivion for at least a few months. By then, I'll be playing something else. I'm glad they're releasing extras like this, but jeez, it's hardly anything to get excited over.

[torrefaction]

Everyone complaining about this is just being stupid. Normally I try and make statements like this with finesse, but if your a gamer, you've had a game had a feature you wanted dropped. And you bought the damn game anyway, because you understand that there's the legendary "Good, Cheap, or Fast, pick two" mantra. Just keep understanding this. For god's sake, buy the damn content you find interesting.

Imagine, no longer do you have to pay $60 for a new game. A developer could theoretically just keep developing for the game you love. They're experimenting, and all anyone wants to do is give Bethesda a verbal lashing.

Plus...anyone who complains about a LACK OF CONTENT in Oblivion seriously needs to A.) Play any other game, EVER. B.) Be put on medication C.) Just stop being ignorant.

More is good...buy it (unless you don't want the horse armor. Me, I'm a grown man, and I'll pay just to support the idea, even if it's a little frivolous. Besides, maybe my freakin horse won't die so often.)

Even if they said, well this is almost finished, but QA may delay release...I think it's brilliant they decide to offer this content later. This is where we'll see innovation people. The less risk the developer has to take on financially, the more chances they'll take with gameplay.

Don't be stupid.

[Heretic Machine]

Yes, they will. But if you enjoy the game and want to play then, you should be willing to support the developers. Don't be an ass.

Uhh... what exactly was I doing when I dropped $60 on the CE edition of the game?

EDIT: And just to show why this is wrong, Orrery already has a door IN GAME, and NPC's talk about it. This was clearly something that was in the game, got taken out and held over to be sold like this.

[torrefaction]

Now THAT would be a good way of pissing off the people who spent money on these mini add-ons.

Agreed, unless you prorate based on previous purchases. THAT would be a good way to not piss me off :)

[WastelandDan]

I just wish they'd add a patch that would make it easier to place items in your home. I can't even tell you how much trial and error it's taken just to put items on my study desk in my house in Anvil without having the items fly across the room for absolutely no reason. Hell, I'd pay for that.

Also, I'd love to see an addition that gives you a basic mannaquin that you could hang and display armor you've collected, essentially setting up a sort of museum exhibit in my home. Sword and weapon displays would be nice too, not to mention being able to buy and place some of those glass display cases you find in castles and shops.

[bapenguin]

Actually, bap if you're reading this, THAT is a question I would love to have answered before I ever think about buying a small addon. Is it likely (or even possible) that it will be included-in or invalidated-by by later, larger, official addons?

I'm pretty sure they said they were going to go the way of add-ons this time. I need to find the interview where someone asked pretty much the same question. Maybe in a few weeks when more content comes out and things kinda settle down we'll try to get something together about upcoming stuff.

[torrefaction]

Uhh... what exactly was I doing when I dropped $60 on the CE edition of the game?

EDIT: And just to show why this is wrong, Orrery already has a door IN GAME, and NPC's talk about it. This was clearly something that was in the game, got taken out and held over to be sold like this.

You haven't shown what was wrong. Suppose the situation went like this. They had an area they designed with the game in mind. QA resources/Dev Resources/Artistic resources got tight, and something had to hit the floor. Maybe, they thought we would eventually like to see this area they couldn't finish by the time they expected to go gold. Just because it was clearly in the game, doesn't mean it was clear that it was finished. Everything is *RIGHT* with this as far as I'm concerned. We'll see more official sanctioned content more often. Like I said in another post, this can only lead to more interesting risks being taken by developers.

Just because modders give their stuff away for free, doesn't mean a company that needs to profit shouldn't. Keep in mind, they go out of their way to provide good modding software for their game in the firstplace.

[Derella]

Uhh... what exactly was I doing when I dropped $60 on the CE edition of the game?

EDIT: And just to show why this is wrong, Orrery already has a door IN GAME, and NPC's talk about it. This was clearly something that was in the game, got taken out and held over to be sold like this.
I don't think it's clearly that way at all. They obviously knew they were going to be offering these mini-mods while they were developing the game, as they've been talking about the horse armor for months. It's just as likely that they knew the Orrery would be one of the first ones released, so they put a door and related NPC in the Arcane University in anticipation of it's release.

[thecrazyd]

(Yes, I know about the "saddlebags" mod, but it's kind of cheezy that you have to "pickpocket" your horse as opposed to opening bags, and you have unlimited weight. I'd just get the "Bag of holding" mod if I wanted that.)
That mod is a lot funnier if you think of it as smuggling stuff in your horses bum rather then using invisible saddlebags. Sort of like an "Anus of Holding" mod.

[torrefaction]

That mod is a lot funnier if you think of it as smuggling stuff in your horses bum rather then using invisible saddlebags. Sort of like an "Anus of Holding" mod.

I'll admit it...I laughed out loud.

EDIT: That's even sig worthy...not my sig...but somebody elses, I'm sure.

[jeffool]

Uhh... what exactly was I doing when I dropped $60 on the CE edition of the game?

EDIT: And just to show why this is wrong, Orrery already has a door IN GAME, and NPC's talk about it. This was clearly something that was in the game, got taken out and held over to be sold like this.When you paid for this you were paying for the game you got. What about Halo's flamethrower? It was in the game and later taken out. Same with the ATVs in Halo 2, apparently. Would you be angry with them for charging $2 to add it back in after the fact? Or does their later decision to include them in the game automatically devalue the game you have?

If these were completely in the game and they were charging for access, then sure, I'd agree. But they're not. They are extraneous content and as such fair game for pricing.

[KNOTE]

I have no problem with this structure. If I am really into the game, for a few bucks I can extend my eperience with it. It's totally optional. Thumbs up as well.

[aversion2k]

Their going to do the same thing with fallout 3 arent they :(
except I'm such a fan I'll actually buy it :(

[Mozgus]

Yes, they will. But if you enjoy the game and want to play then, you should be willing to support the developers. Don't be an ass.
Buying the game is supporting the developers. Buying their pathetic little patches is is just supporting their faggotry.

[dotbomb]

I'd pay for a mod that made a better UI for the PC version (big ticket being a customizable spellbook) as well as a mod that allowed more creativity with enchanting. Other than that I'll wait for a year or so when bundled content is released for one low price. I'm getting close to being through the main quest on my first toon and I'll roll another one in a month or two after taking a break to experience other aspects of the game I skipped.

[Heretic Machine]

If these were completely in the game and they were charging for access, then sure, I'd agree. But they're not. They are extraneous content and as such fair game for pricing.

Ok, so as long as they don't include the finished data on the disc they sell to you for $60, you're cool with paying extra for it. So, if Bungie releases Halo 3 without vehicles on the disc, but asks you to pay $10 for it a week after release, you're cool with that?

[laggerific]

Everyone complaining about this is just being stupid. Normally I try and make statements like this with finesse, but if your a gamer, you've had a game had a feature you wanted dropped. And you bought the damn game anyway, because you understand that there's the legendary "Good, Cheap, or Fast, pick two" mantra. Just keep understanding this. For god's sake, buy the damn content you find interesting.

Imagine, no longer do you have to pay $60 for a new game. A developer could theoretically just keep developing for the game you love. They're experimenting, and all anyone wants to do is give Bethesda a verbal lashing.

Plus...anyone who complains about a LACK OF CONTENT in Oblivion seriously needs to A.) Play any other game, EVER. B.) Be put on medication C.) Just stop being ignorant.

More is good...buy it (unless you don't want the horse armor. Me, I'm a grown man, and I'll pay just to support the idea, even if it's a little frivolous. Besides, maybe my freakin horse won't die so often.)

Even if they said, well this is almost finished, but QA may delay release...I think it's brilliant they decide to offer this content later. This is where we'll see innovation people. The less risk the developer has to take on financially, the more chances they'll take with gameplay.

Don't be stupid.

I'm not being stupid...I'm just not impressed with Bethesda. I paid extra for an Ultima 7 sidequest that was all about getting a cool sword...that had some meat to it...and wasn't going to be an everyday occurence. I think that they should be busy playing and memorizing all that is good in the Fallout series so that they can work on that and do it right.

Also, I am usually not this critical about something someone posted, but I think it takes a willfull ignorance, or a naivete to believe that they just couldn't quite finish this in time, so we'll release several million addons down the road. They told us for months before release that the game content was finished and what they needed time for was tweaking the engine for maximum 360ness.

I am not against addons, but I think addons should be a little more like Brood War in their epicness, not horses armor...that should have been included in the game...just like some environmental interaction.

FYI: I come from the Ultima, UW, Fallout planescape style of RPGs...interactive and deep on a great number of levels. Oblivion is just a singleplayer MMORPG...a grinding good time.

[The Continental]

I'd pay for a mod that made a better UI for the PC version (big ticket being a customizable spellbook) as well as a mod that allowed more creativity with enchanting. Other than that I'll wait for a year or so when bundled content is released for one low price. I'm getting close to being through the main quest on my first toon and I'll roll another one in a month or two after taking a break to experience other aspects of the game I skipped.

Give BTMod (http://btmod.beider.org/) a try. It lacks a customizable spell book, but it's got a lot of other much needed improvements to the UI.

[51|RandoM]

Can't remember the last time I used one of the horses ingame. I run faster than they do and turn quite a bit better, lol.

[IagoTheHunted]

When you paid for this you were paying for the game you got. What about Halo's flamethrower? It was in the game and later taken out. Same with the ATVs in Halo 2, apparently. Would you be angry with them for charging $2 to add it back in after the fact? Or does their later decision to include them in the game automatically devalue the game you have?

If these were completely in the game and they were charging for access, then sure, I'd agree. But they're not. They are extraneous content and as such fair game for pricing.

Not quite, remember there are DOORS TO NOWHERE in the game as it stands and to put content behind those doors... essentially putting in the last little jigsaw pieces of the game to make it whole... you have to pay extra on top of an exorbitant game-price, internet access, and Xbox Live access. That's crap.
I'm not against the idea of added content as long as it's in the spirit of truely added, OPTIONAL, content that doesn't act as a piece of the game that should have been there at release. Like if they wanted to sell a play-as-a-giant-pink bunny content mod as a fun little way to mess with the normal game... GREAT! That'd be a fun idea, and something people wouldn't miss from the normal game. Or selling xbox360 themes and images. Fine! Also content that is justifyably seperate from the standalone game. But unlocking rooms that were in the finished game and then removed to be sold???? LAME! TOOOTALLY LAME. And not at all worth the $... if you figure the game took 4 years, and producted literally THOUSANDS of art assets, for a total end-user product worth $60, the idea that their selling that last 1/1000th piece for $2? Fuck them.

[Kamalot]

I love Oblivion.

I hate being pinged for stupid cellphone-like downloads.

I am going to vote with my wallet. If we collectively vow never to buy this kind of crap, the company will learn that it can't make money off of us like this. That's the only way to stop it.

I read that Playstation 3 is going to be based on these microtransactions for additional crap even more. That's why they are selling the systems at a loss since, like cellphones, they expect you to buy little crap like this horse armor.

[Pumped'Up]

it's fairly disgusting to me that Bethesda felt the need to have horse armor as an add on, instead of making it available inthe game. I'm just not liking what I am seeing from these guys.
I agree, this type of crap that Bethsoft is pulling is distancing myself from considering any purchases of their products in the future.

[torrefaction]

FYI: I come from the Ultima, UW, Fallout planescape style of RPGs...interactive and deep on a great number of levels. Oblivion is just a singleplayer MMORPG...a grinding good time.

I think you're missing a lot of what Oblivion is about. I've never *once* yet felt like I was grinding. I'm really kind of caught up in everything going on...it just feels exciting. Could just be me though. Keep in mind...Fallout/Planescape/BG... That's my bread and butter (I'm drooling over the idea of another Fallout). I dropped morrowwind like a bad habit, because I thought it was poorly put together. I'm not a Bethesda fanboy in any sense of the word...Regardless...on to the point.

You gamers (me included) clamor for something different, for innovation. People...THIS IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Look at what they're planning on introducing to it. So far, any area I run into is quite a bit of content. 2 areas for $2 each...that's really not bad. I hear people complain about the expansion millstone developers get into. Now someone wants to change it. And so what if they did "know" they were going to sell the content, and planned to add the area later, even if I'm wrong about it hitting the cutting board floor. I'm glad they're trying it.

Besides, if you've been in software development, you know that things flux until the last few months. At which point, you freeze the code, QA the hell out of it, and pray you can fix the bugs you have left.

[ezra]

Micropayments make sense. But 2.50 for any of these is overboard. I'd think about it if they were more reasonably priced.

[Achilles]

Wizard Tower you say? Sounds good to me.

[Nichols]

You gamers (me included) clamor for something different, for innovation. People...THIS IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Look at what they're planning on introducing to it. So far, any area I run into is quite a bit of content. 2 areas for $2 each...that's really not bad.
Cavedog did the same thing with Total Anihilation...for free. Hell, they'll probably just make Fallout 3 a barren city with some minor quests, and then charge money to "expand" upon it. LOL LET THE MODDERS FIX WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!

Bethesda: Refining the Refined - But this Time Charging Money!

[Achilles]

Don’t lose heart Bethesda, no matter what you charge people are going to complain.

Think of it this way: An expansion is $30-$40. For $30-$40 at their current pricing you could get 12-16 of these downloads. That’s quite a bit of extra content, towers, fortresses, new quest chains, etc. You get to have the content piece by piece instead of waiting for the whole expansion to be finished, and your expansion is customized to only be stuff that you care about (you’re not paying for horse armor unless you want horse armor.) That seems like a pretty good model to me, and I endorse it.Cavedog did the same thing with Total Anihilation...for free.

Bethesda: Refining the Refined - But this Time Charging Money!Cavedog went out of business because of their devotion to free community support. I know, I work with 4 people who used to work there.

[Nichols]

How about, y'know, putting stuff like that in the game in the first place, rather that intentionally leaving it out so they can just squeeze more money from the customer's dry teat?
Cavedog went out of business because of their devotion to free community support. I know, I work with 4 people who used to work there.
And? They still did it years before Bethesda "invented" downloadable extra content, regardless of whether or not they went out of business. I doubt Bethesda will fail because they release a couple of minor mods for free :rolleyes:

[torrefaction]

Cavedog did the same thing with Total Anihilation...for free. Hell, they'll probably just make Fallout 3 a barren city with some minor quests, and then charge money to "expand" upon it. LOL LET THE MODDERS FIX WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!

Bethesda: Refining the Refined - But this Time Charging Money!

I think this is kind of an inane comment to make. Have you seen Oblivion? Have you been absolutely confounded at what to do next, because there's so much to do? Have you kicked yourself because you didn't have time to explore the 5 dungeons you found on the way to finishing a single quest?

Talking about a lack of content from Bethesda is like...There's no good analogy for that. People will use that as an analogy for ridiculous things in years to come!

[inmostlight]

How about, y'know, putting stuff like that in the game in the first place, rather that intentionally leaving it out so they can just squeeze more money from the customer's dry teat?

Because if they had put that stuff in the game in the first place, none of us would be playing Oblivion right now because it wouldn't have been released yet.

[Nichols]

The dungeons are randomly generated, so it's no big deal. And because of the retarded level scaling, you never find anything interesting to fight or find in them (because god forbid games should offer challenges).

I don't want dungeons, I want involved quests with multiple ways to solve them and consequences based upon your actions. I want stats that truly affect gameplay and NPC reactions, not retarded minigames. I want combat that isn't geared toward the 2-second attention span morons. Fallout is the complete opposite of the Elder Scrolls games, so it's difficult to see how Bethesda will be able to do anything constructive with the franchise beyond post-apocalyptic Oblivion...with guns and deathclaws on lollerskates!
Because if they had put that stuff in the game in the first place, none of us would be playing Oblivion right now because it wouldn't have been released yet.
Yeah, it takes forever to put friggin horse armor in :rolleyes:

[Achilles]

How about, y'know, putting stuff like that in the game in the first place, rather that intentionally leaving it out so they can just squeeze more money from the customer's dry teat?

And? They still did it years before Bethesda "invented" downloadable extra content, regardless of whether or not they went out of business. I doubt Bethesda will fail because they release a couple of minor mods for free :rolleyes:How do you know they intentionally left it out? Do you seriously think that everything that could possibly be released after a game shipps should ship with the game? Give me a break, nothing would ever ship. It takes a month to get through cert and fab discs, they probably finished the horse armor in that time, after the game was already done. Same with the rest of this content.

And yeah Bethesda isn't the first one to do it on PC, but that doesn't make it any less of an expensive proposition to pump out free content for a game that's already sold the majority of its units.

[abso]

These buyable content addons piss me the fuck off. They never charged for the official plugins for morrowind, wtf are they doing it now. I'll just wait for the creative and well fleshed out 3rd party plug-ins that I can get FOR FREE.

[Nichols]

They even said in various interviews (I remember the PCGamer interview specifically) that they had some things planned for the game that they were instead going to release as "bonus" content.

There's nothing wrong with free content at all. Releasing it doesn't make you go out of business, it can help it in fact. It can secure relations with the fanbase and get you positive word of mouth reception. Bethesda doesn't care about their fans, they just care about how much money they're making of the poor suckers (myself included I guess, seeing how I bought oblivion).
I'll just wait for the creative and well fleshed out 3rd party plug-ins that I can get FOR FREE.
Just wait. For the Elder Scrolls V all mods, fanmade or not, must be purchased off TESMODS.COM and the Construction Kit will cost 50 bucks (another 30 for a downloadable PDF manual).

[Achilles]

There's nothing wrong with free content at all. Releasing it doesn't make you go out of business, it can help it in fact. It can secure relations with the fanbase and get you positive word of mouth reception. Bethesda doesn't care about their fans, they just care about how much money they're making of the poor suckers (myself included I guess, seeing how I bought oblivion).

Just wait. For the Elder Scrolls V all mods, fanmade or not, must be purchased off TESMODS.COM and the Construction Kit will cost 50 bucks (another 30 for a downloadable PDF manual).Yeah slippery slope. In 2 years everything TES related, even fan made stuff will cost $10 each. :rolleyes:

Free content is great for gamers, but it's not great for developers. It takes people off of making the next game/expansion and has no return on the investment other than a 'happy' hardcore community (I wouldn't say they're happy since apparently, like you, they expect and demand this stuff). There needs to be a middle-ground where the developers can get some ROI off of the additional content they make.

Furthermore if you want free stuff, there's tons of fan-made free stuff out there (for the PC ver). DigiWiz pointed to a site that had a bunch of free stuff on it yesterday.

[Kefkataran]

They need to put in a pack mule, or at least bags for your horse, so you can stay out in the wilderness longer without having to run back to town every time you visit a dungeon.

(Yes, I know about the "saddlebags" mod, but it's kind of cheezy that you have to "pickpocket" your horse as opposed to opening bags, and you have unlimited weight. I'd just get the "Bag of holding" mod if I wanted that.)


Well, I mean, you don't really have to run back to towns anymore. You have instant travel. Hence it's not that big of a deal unless you're in the middle of a really big dungeon, I guess.

[Nichols]

You know what? I do expect companies to support their games and their fans by releasing free content and bonus addons. I think it's a great idea, and that's why I like indie companies so much because they realize this and make games because they love to, not because they're the next big money-making thing.

I'd have no problem with Bethesda charging money for these if the content was actually substantial (say, an entirely new city with plotlines, new skills, enemies, guilds) but two bucks and fifty cents for some stupid horse armor I myself could mod in? Fuck that.

[Pumped'Up]

Charging for this crap is nothing but a major step backwards for these companies. I should have waited before buying the CE on the first day.

[Spigot]

Uhh... what exactly was I doing when I dropped $60 on the CE edition of the game?

EDIT: And just to show why this is wrong, Orrery already has a door IN GAME, and NPC's talk about it. This was clearly something that was in the game, got taken out and held over to be sold like this.
I agree. Some of these things seem like the kind of trinkets and extra content that you'd normally see in a CE version of a game. While I like the booklet and DVD that came with my CE, this kind of ingame content is what I'd rather have had my money go towards.

It would be nice if they gave owners of the CE the first three-four official mods free. I'm still kind of on the fence about this stuff. On the one hand, I know that there is already tonnes of stuff to do in the game as it is. Add to that all of the user mods developed in the two weeks since release and there is almost no need to pay for the official stuff.

However, if $2 will get me a decent amount of gameplay and fun, it might be worth it. At least stuff like the Orrery and the Wizards Tower looks to be worth paying money for. The horse armour, on the other hand... well, enough has been said about that for now.

[Royal Fool]

I can't say I'm happy with this model, but I understand why Bethesda wants to do it. These addons have a very high profit margin, and it doesn't take them a long time to create content. They even have custom art and possibly new elements that will draw people in. Additionally, they can easily put these addons through focused QA testing.

It's an understandable business model for a game of this type, and a smart move. From Bethesda's point of view.


As for everyone who is complaining... geez. Nobody is forcing you. Of course they can cut content out and and sell it to you later in some other form, DEVELOPERS DO IT ALL THE TIME. MOVIE STUDIOS DO IT TOO! AND RECORD COMPANIES! No, you perhaps don't get them online as plug-ins, but how many times have you bought a CD with 'never before released tracks' or a DVD with bonus material and missing scenes? Some of that stuff is created while the original product is being made, but then the companies decide to store it for later use or to polish it up.

Oh my gosh, I went to the theater to see this awesome movie, and guess what? The fucking film studio didn't include all the bloopers and deleted scenes at the end of the film! I'm so fucking pissed! Fuck!

Sure, including a door in the retail game that you have to download seperately for a price doesn't make me very happy, either. But this is how they choose to do business. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet and don't purchase it.

You know what? I do expect companies to support their games and their fans by releasing free content and bonus addons. I think it's a great idea, and that's why I like indie companies so much because they realize this and make games because they love to, not because they're the next big money-making thing.
Well, sadly we live in a world where capitalism/consumerism rules all. Although I'm sure the companies appreciate your support, you already paid for the product. It's totally up to them to supply you with free content or none at all. There's no such thing as free lunch...

Oh, and I hope that when you speak of indie companies you don't mean Blizzard.

I'd have no problem with Bethesda charging money for these if the content was actually substantial (say, an entirely new city with plotlines, new skills, enemies, guilds) but two bucks and fifty cents for some stupid horse armor I myself could mod in? Fuck that.
Sweet, post a thread in the TESIV forum when you're done making it. I can't wait.

[asimplehero]

Why can't they just save all this fluff material for a genuine expansion ala Tribunal?

[Nim]

I'd have no problem with Bethesda charging money for these if the content was actually substantial (say, an entirely new city with plotlines, new skills, enemies, guilds) but two bucks and fifty cents for some stupid horse armor I myself could mod in? Fuck that.

So...don't buy it. I don't care about horse armor, so I won't buy it. However, additional unique dungeons for $2 is worth it to me, so I probably will get those. It's just supply and demand.

I like this whole concept. If they can make a little money to offset the costs of paying devs to create this stuff, that will encourage them to make more of it than they would otherwise. And to pick the "expansion" content that I want, a la carte, instead of bundling it together in one expansion is just fine with me.

[Verocity]

What's funny is, they are going to try and charge for this stuff on the PC version too. The console version already cost $10+ more, now you are forced to pay for additional content when I can just browse over to the Oblivion forums and download a....hey a Wizards tower!

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=333594

[Verocity]

Also, I'd love to see an addition that gives you a basic mannaquin that you could hang and display armor you've collected, essentially setting up a sort of museum exhibit in my home. Sword and weapon displays would be nice too, not to mention being able to buy and place some of those glass display cases you find in castles and shops.

Right here my friend:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Reznod%27s_Mannequins

[GoblinToe]

Slippery Slope is right. If they get away with this incredibly lame business model, it'll only be the beginning. We'll never see a construction set included with a game again.

Why give away the tools to make mods when there is a mass of complete morons who are willing to be micro-billed for the most pathetically sized mods?

"It's only two dollars! You spend more than that on coffee each day!"

"If you don't like it, don't buy it!"

No shit, that's not the point. The point is, once they smell the blood, they will circle you until you're dead. All it takes is the smallest trickle--two dollars here, 1.50 there.

Microsoft is all ready to go this route with the Xbox, and has been since launch. With the closed system of consoles they will easily get away with it, too. Yet another reason developers will flee from the PC platform until DRM is locked down tight into the CPU, and you can't check your email without Windows getting an OK from a centralized server.

I fully expect this kind of shit from most developers, but it saddens me to see Bethesda do it as well. It's just so.......cheap.

[Kelegacy]

The dungeons are randomly generated, so it's no big deal. And because of the retarded level scaling, you never find anything interesting to fight or find in them (because god forbid games should offer challenges).


Dungeons are randomly generated?

[Royal Fool]

Let me put it this way.

People paid a $399 premium (Or more) for their Xbox 360. People paid a $59.99 premium for their Oblivion game. It doesn't surprise me that they're trying to earn some more money. Apparently there's loads more where it all came from.

GoblinToe's right - they can smell the blood. :)

Dungeons are randomly generated?
Only half of that is true. You can check them in the construction set and see that they were already laid out by the level designers, everything like traps, loot positions, enemies, lighting... all done by hand. The "random" element is what's exactly in the containers and how many enemies you run into. That sort of stuff.

[Achilles]

No shit, that's not the point. The point is, once they smell the blood, they will circle you until you're dead. All it takes is the smallest trickle--two dollars here, 1.50 there.I pay $15 a month for WoW. By this pricing model I'd be getting 6 things a month. Instead I'm paying for their servers and help-desk support that I never use, and the occational new dungeon that I can't get to because I don't play it often enough.

[TheBrainKills]

So let me get this straight, the main quest is about 40 hours long and you pay, say $60 bucks max. Thats about $1.50 an hour ..... oh wait they removed a couple of things that broke the main quest and are selling them. mmmm No! Oh... there is actually 200 hours of content. Oh shit Why am I whiny Bastard? Hahaha I am a Satanist.

[Nichols]

Horse armor broke the main quest? What the fuck are you smoking?

[TheBrainKills]

Since I am drunk, I submit my Drunk Review:

Hey guy's remember that game "Oblivion". I played it For 200 hours, then the bastards tried to sell me a Dungeon for $2.50. Shit, fuck, did that suck.

[TheBrainKills]

Horse armor broke the main quest? What the fuck are you smoking?

Exactly, what are you smokin?

[Nichols]

Obviously something because apparently not wanting to give bloodthirsty developers any incentive to start charging more and more for less and less is some totally WACKED out idea :rolleyes:

[Achilles]

Obviously something because apparently not wanting to give bloodthirsty developers any incentive to start charging more and more for less and less is some totally WACKED out idea :rolleyes:Would you say Oblivion, the $60/$50 game is an example of this bloodthirsty, wicked, charging more and more for less content? Because the game's like 200 hours long and has an editor that allows you to make pretty much anything else, like that horse mod that you'll never make.

[GunnyMo]

Screw the mages! I want Dark Brotherhood mayhem!

[GunnyMo]

The dungeons are randomly generated, so it's no big deal. And because of the retarded level scaling, you never find anything interesting to fight or find in them (because god forbid games should offer challenges).


You must be playing a different game than most people. Unless by "interesting" you mean "stuff so far below your level you just have to breath on them for them to die". I like the level scaling. It means I don't have to run around in one area for hours grinding away just to level up so I can move on to the next area *cough*FF*cough*. I have chests and cabinets full of interesting armor and weapons I've found in the game. The weapons and armor you find are scaled to your level. What is the point of finding a full set of Glass Armor and high damage weapons when you are level 2? Then the game really is ruined because it isn't a challenge.

The game is very challenging.

[DigiWiz]

Now that the details of the horse armor thing have come out, I'm laughing even harder about it.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=342073

The "armored" horses just replace to two existing horse models. They also don't have any kind of armor, all the developers did was add a few more hitpoints to them.

And the value of those other plugins remain to be seen. Any users who has run through the basic construction set tutorial is able to create a tower in the mountains, as long as it does not have new quest content coming with it, it will hardly be worth $2.50

[Liquidize105]

The "Don't like it, don't buy it!" argument is weak, we're all fans of the game, we like Oblivion and yet in order to get the full experience we have to cough up the dough for things that are nice but otherwise serve little purpose, and possibly was designed to be apart of the game. All of a sudden the game is not massive because Bethesda is so awesome, it's massive because, well, it's designed with selling these trinkets in mind. There's that kind of connotation and I don't like it.

Bundle it - 5 items for $4.99, or 10 for 8.99.

I pay $15 a month for WoW. By this pricing model I'd be getting 6 things a month. Instead I'm paying for their servers and help-desk support that I never use, and the occational new dungeon that I can't get to because I don't play it often enough.
MMO pricing is another one of those market research into the maximum people are willing to pay monthly. You didn't think that $15 was actually all going to support and server upkeep did you?

But if you want to rationalize it: ~12-16 of those things don't equal an expansion BTW, which are $30 typically. Blizzard was the one to push expansion price to $35 because they could while people'd still buy.

Not that the pricing is rational, but it is capitalist.

[Kelegacy]

You must be playing a different game than most people. Unless by "interesting" you mean "stuff so far below your level you just have to breath on them for them to die". I like the level scaling. It means I don't have to run around in one area for hours grinding away just to level up so I can move on to the next area *cough*FF*cough*. I have chests and cabinets full of interesting armor and weapons I've found in the game. The weapons and armor you find are scaled to your level. What is the point of finding a full set of Glass Armor and high damage weapons when you are level 2? Then the game really is ruined because it isn't a challenge.

The game is very challenging.
But what about the bandits that suddenly all appear wearing Daedric Armor, Glass, and wielding uber weapons when initially they were wearing leather, if any, armor. The scaling has its pros and cons, that's for sure. You can become Grand Champion of the Arena at level 1, but at level 30 it can become extremely hard for you to do so. That doesn't make sense. The game is extremely fun and immersive, but much of the leveling system is counter-intuitive and the scaling can be a headache (great items aren't stumbled upon in the world, they are found due to your level--ruins a bit of the fun of exploration for me).

Again, great game, but it's not as balanced or realistic as it strives to be.

[GunnyMo]

I agree with you, Kel. The level scaling does have it's ups and downs but then again it does make for an interesting game, don't you think? ;p

[Kelegacy]

I agree with you, Kel. The level scaling does have it's ups and downs but then again it does make for an interesting game, don't you think? ;p

I did until the game pooped on my Bosmer. I've started over, hoping to creat a much more balanced character now that I know how the system works. Morrowind was fun but I found it very easy towards the middle - end. I wasn't truly aware of the system changes until I stumbled upon some bumps...if any reviewers mentioned some of these serious changes, I failed to notice.

It's mostly my fault, for trying to roleplay instead of applying mathematics for multipliers and minor skills/major skills, etc. etc. What I ended with was a guy who's majors were nearly all based on Agility and became a paper doll walking through a scissor-man world after twenty-five hours of play.

[The_Darr]

These buyable content addons piss me the fuck off. They never charged for the official plugins for morrowind, wtf are they doing it now. I'll just wait for the creative and well fleshed out 3rd party plug-ins that I can get FOR FREE.
like the LAST thread of this ilk--/\/\=correct answer...END OF STORY. they are simply capitolizing on the popularity of online purchasing. its sad.

[WastelandDan]

Right here my friend:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Reznod%27s_Mannequins
Unfortunately I'm playing on the 360, so no mod action like this for me at this point unless it's an official patch.

Also, in the description under known bugs it says "Mannequins disappear after 72 hours and take everything you put on them with them." That seems like a pretty fucking huge bug to me.

[Spigot]

Unfortunately I'm playing on the 360, so no mod action like this for me at this point unless it's an official patch.

Also, in the description under known bugs it says "Mannequins disappear after 72 hours and take everything you put on them with them." That seems like a pretty fucking huge bug to me.
Now, is that 72 hours of play or 72 hours of realtime?

[NoName]

Now, is that 72 hours of play or 72 hours of realtime?
That's what I was wondering, but either way it seemed like a funny bug to me :D.

[Achilles]

Now that the details of the horse armor thing have come out, I'm laughing even harder about it.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=342073

The "armored" horses just replace to two existing horse models. They also don't have any kind of armor, all the developers did was add a few more hitpoints to them.

And the value of those other plugins remain to be seen. Any users who has run through the basic construction set tutorial is able to create a tower in the mountains, as long as it does not have new quest content coming with it, it will hardly be worth $2.50Just to set the record straight. Here’s how the horse armor really works:

After installing/downloading the pack, when you load up your game you’ll receive a note. That note will direct you to the Imperial stables. You talk to a character there and she’ll ask you what kind of armor you want. You can put it on any horse. The horse keeps its original appearance and has the armor on top of it. For example if you up-armor a paint horse, it’ll still look like a paint horse with armor on it, and it also keeps the name, gaining a (Armored) label after the name.

The first horse you armor is free, every additional horse costs 500 gold.

So that’s how it really works.

[mixuk]

I'm having a hard time understanding what the uproar is about. They charge money of the work they did. Doing stuff in a company actually costs money.

You really don't need the mods, they don't actually affect gameplay and do not really make the game any better or worser. You can decide whether you want more eyecandy in the game or not.

It's not like they shipped a half a game, anyone who says that, is a certified idiot.

[Vandenh]

Basically Oblivion might turn into a offline MMORPG where you pay for add-ons instead of subscription. Dunno if it will work... but it is a novel idea. I wonder....

Good content I will buy... but right now Oblivion has enough content for me.

[DigiWiz]

Just to set the record straight. Here’s how the horse armor really works:

After installing/downloading the pack, when you load up your game you’ll receive a note. That note will direct you to the Imperial stables. You talk to a character there and she’ll ask you what kind of armor you want. You can put it on any horse. The horse keeps its original appearance and has the armor on top of it. For example if you up-armor a paint horse, it’ll still look like a paint horse with armor on it, and it also keeps the name, gaining a (Armored) label after the name.

The first horse you armor is free, every additional horse costs 500 gold.

So that’s how it really works.

Which is not at all different from the scenario I am describing.

They make a copy of your horse object, replace it with a higher hit point version and some crappy armor texture and that''s about it. Ironically it breaks the mods that added sense to the whole horse thing like Saddlebags or Call Mount. Very funny.

Anyhow, judging from the official forums, it's even worse than originally thought.

People have already found evidence that the Mage Tower mod they announced was in the main game and was cut to release it later for cash. They even left the door to the place in the game.

Of course, by now, there are dozens of threads on the ign, gamespot and even official forums pointing people to download locations for the horse pack ... and given the ripoff feel that mod leaves with most players, I doubt people will have a lot of moral issues just downloading it...

[DigiWiz]

But what about the bandits that suddenly all appear wearing Daedric Armor, Glass, and wielding uber weapons when initially they were wearing leather, if any, armor. The scaling has its pros and cons, that's for sure. You can become Grand Champion of the Arena at level 1, but at level 30 it can become extremely hard for you to do so. That doesn't make sense. The game is extremely fun and immersive, but much of the leveling system is counter-intuitive and the scaling can be a headache (great items aren't stumbled upon in the world, they are found due to your level--ruins a bit of the fun of exploration for me).

Again, great game, but it's not as balanced or realistic as it strives to be.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=341622

fix. good.

[Borys]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=341622

fix. good.

Kelegacy plays the 360 version.

pain. bad.

[Savok]

Ok, so they gutted the Mage's Guild and are asking for money so I can get what's missing? Well thanks Beth, that's fucking super of you.

Also, do this with Fallout and you'll incur the wrath of every looney on the Internet. Fair warning.

[Achilles]

They make a copy of your horse object, replace it with a higher hit point version and some crappy armor texture and that''s about it. Ironically it breaks the mods that added sense to the whole horse thing like Saddlebags or Call Mount. Very funnyHow they mechanically do it is uninteresting to me. The fact is that they didn't replace a creature in the game with an armored horse, it upgrades your horse. For example it didn't take the paint horse from that one southern town and turn it into an armored horse that you could buy.

Does referring to these really good looking horse armor sets as "some crappy armor texture" make you feel more right in hating the content? Or do you actually think the armor looks bad. It's probably overpriced, but there's no reason to bust on the art unless you're just a hater.

[Spigot]

Kelegacy plays the 360 version.

pain. bad.
Spigot plays PC version.

laughs at Kelegacy.

[Spigot]

And while we're at it, the Penny Arcade chaps have joined in (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/) (with a link to Bap's interview with the PR guy from Bethesda on the main page, no less). I think Tycho sums up most of the various arguements quite succinctly there.

A lot of this could have been avoided if the barding were a part of a larger bundle. Optimally, they should have constituted a kind of olive branch - freely available, just to get people in the habit of checking. They've already revealed that the two packs beyond Special Horsey Times contain material that is of significant interest to many players - new places to explore. If each of these new packs also contained a steed, the mind's natural tendency to collect would be insidiously engaged. Or, as part of a single ten dollar pack which contained three other pieces of higher profile content, I doubt you'd hear the same outcry - even though the actual price is identical. It would be a "mini-expansion" then, something we already have a mental label for, with the expectation of a certain value threshold.

There are many themes and gamer pictures available for points on the service, but outside of Outpost Kaloki - a Live Arcade game that has multiple campaigns available on a fee basis - actual game content is rare, which is why the "Ex Hyper Fighting Extreme" version of this conversation has never emerged. Oh, sure - there were those outfits for Kameo, but nobody gives an F about Kameo. The doomsday scenario I hear depicted is that developers will no longer deliver complete games to consumers, that (in the manner of nigiri) we will be forced to purchase our games one tiny strip at a time and play them in an abandoned railway car. If there is an argument there, Oblivion is a terrible example of this force at work - the game as it was delivered has more content than any single player is ever likely to see, so much that paying for extra tiddlywinks is actually contraindicated.

I reject the idea that we teeter at the apex of some "slippery slope" - the slope you're referring to already done slipped. It slipped on mobile phones when people bought a vanity cover of the American Flag and a ringtone from Office Space and a strip of lights that twinkles on ring. Marketplace isn't a slippery slope - it's the codification of a recognized market tendency. You'd better believe there are motherfuckers riding those Goddamn horses along the shore of the Niben right now.

[Frogleg Special]

In unrelated news, PC version now has topless patch (http://www.oblivionsource.com/?page=modforge&op=viewproject&project_id=191)

[Savok]

Dude that came out about 3 hours after release.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Since I am drunk, I submit my Drunk Review:

Hey guy's remember that game "Oblivion". I played it For 200 hours, then the bastards tried to sell me a Dungeon for $2.50. Shit, fuck, did that suck.


Except none of these are dungeons. You get some horsey clothes, a room, and a house.


GoblinToe and others were right - the slippery slope continues. This kind of thing is why MS wanted to get into the console business - and why many of the PC's developers have followed along. Sony is also going in this direction. I'm really hoping that Nintendo doesn't follow along with this crap. If I start seeing new creature add-ons in the next Pokemon for $2 I'm going to toss all of my consoles into the scrap heap and buy some more books.

[Stormwatcher]

You whinners fucking disgust me. Everyone is suddenly a communist, now?
If Oblivion was a damned rendition of some huge desert, meaning a very big, empty, flat and lifeless place, with nothing to do, and THEN you had to buy towns, forests, people, quests, etc., then I'd be the first one screaming my lungs out.

But GOD DAMN IT! you have a freaking supertankerload of shit to do... The two future thingies are nice extras, but their current absense nothing that's gamebreaking.

Granted, the Horse armor thing was kinda stupid, too little for even 1.99, but I'd gladly pay 2 bucks for a mage tower and the orrerry thing.

Baldur's Gate had a halfling village where they talked about a Durlag's Tower a lot... And bang, there it was in the Tales of the Sword's Coast expansion. I think that is great integration, not some stupid "let's-rip-it-off-now-and-sell-it-later" conspiracy.

So, instead of charging 30.00 for a bigger expansion, they charge 1.99 for a smaller one...

Top quality modules cost 8 bucks in Neverwinter Nights... and you have thousands of free modules to download this is very similar. Maybe Bethesda should have sold both expansions for 3.00, but the concept itself is just fine.

BTW, "Slippery Slope" is the name of a classic falacy... meaning that it's bullshit, not the evidence of future events, please don't be so ignorant.

[torrefaction]

Baldur's Gate had a halfling village where they talked about a Durlag's Tower a lot... And bang, there it was in the Tales of the Sword's Coast expansion. I think that is great integration, not some stupid "let's-rip-it-off-now-and-sell-it-later" conspiracy.


Thank fucking god. I was beginning to feel like I was almost alone in trying remain outspoken about this. These freaking people are ridiculous. They want to crucify Bethesda for planning ahead for additional content. But they'll be the first ones to shell out money for a damn coin and a guidebook. Your gamers, and your willing to pay for superficial shit, but you all get up in arms when a developer decides that as a company, they want to make money. On top of it all, Oblivion will now last even fucking longer. Please people...if you really want to see changes in the industry, get off your high horse and if the content looks decent, buy it.

[Nichols]

Please people...if you really want to see changes in the industry, get off your high horse and if the content looks decent, buy it.
But what if the change is for the worse, such as in this case?

[Achilles]

If I start seeing new creature add-ons in the next Pokemon for $2 I'm going to toss all of my consoles into the scrap heap and buy some more books.Add-ons for Pokemon? Like maybe selling cards with certain codes on them in a format that could only be read by a peripheral that they'll sell you? Did you toss your consoles onto the heap ages ago when the e-card reader came out?

[torrefaction]

But what if the change is for the worse, such as in this case?

This should be a lesson to all the naysayers. The man who hates Penny Arcade is absolutely sure (And I'm positive you have great powers of precognition) that this is a change for the worst. God forbid developers have long term incentive to *continuously* provide new content.

[Nichols]

God forbid developers have long term incentive to *continuously* provide new content.
"provide new content...for a price."

Developers have been providing (free) content for YEARS. Bethesda just slapped a price tag on it and now it's being hailed as the future of gaming.

go bethesda :rolleyes:

Devs do have an incentive to add new content: Doing it out of love for the game and for the fans that support them. Bethesda is doing it for purely monetary reasons, because they're a cold unfeeling company that only cares about numbers and statistics.

[Stormwatcher]

"provide new content...for a price."

Developers have been providing (free) content for YEARS. Bethesda just slapped a price tag on it and now it's being hailed as the future of gaming.

go bethesda :rolleyes:

Devs do have an incentive to add new content: Doing it out of love for the game and for the fans that support them. Bethesda is doing it for purely monetary reasons, because they're a cold unfeeling company that only cares about numbers and statistics.

YEAH, because NO ONE EVER made EXPANSION PACKS and sold them, RIGHT?
Dude, this is just a micro-expansion-pack with a micro payment tag.

Ok, all you people should read my previous post repeatedly, until the TRUTH (tm) contained in it seeps through your thick skulls.

[Hemalin]

Developers have been providing (free) content for YEARS.

Developers have been charging for content for years too, they're called expansions. The way it's going, instead of paying $30 for a couple things you want and a bunch of shit you don't want, you can pay $10 for the content that you'll actually play with. Don't want the new models? Don't get them. Want the new areas? Get it. Why should I pay for both when I only want one?

[Nichols]

Why should you pay at all? 2.50 for horse armour is outrageous, they'll probably charge five times that for supposedly "new" areas (y'know, the ones they left out of the game intentionally so they could sell them for more money).

[Hemalin]

Why should you pay at all?

Good point, I think I'm going to pirate games from now on, because anyone that makes a video game that holds my attention for 200 hours and then has the nerve to sell it defianately is only in it for the money.

[Nichols]

way to miss my point entirely :rolleyes:

I never mentioned not paying for the game at all, I meant why pay for such insubstantial content? It's complete BS.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Add-ons for Pokemon? Like maybe selling cards with certain codes on them in a format that could only be read by a peripheral that they'll sell you? Did you toss your consoles onto the heap ages ago when the e-card reader came out?

The e-reader was stupid, and I voiced my opinion on that too. I didn't let Nintendo slide - GBA connectivity was also stupid, and I said so at the time. I didn't buy that stuff - just like I won't buy this. Sadly I fear that this will "catch on" an become the norm. I didn't really feel like the e-reader was going to become a standard. :p

[Magnanimous Gnome]

One more thing - what's with calling this a "micropayment." A micro payment is a SMALL amount - say .25. $2.50 is getting pretty high for a "micropayment."

[Expugnare]

Why should you pay at all? 2.50 for horse armour is outrageous, they'll probably charge five times that for supposedly "new" areas (y'know, the ones they left out of the game intentionally so they could sell them for more money).
You seriously need to READ!

It has been said that these will cost $1.99. That is less than 2.50. Learn to read or learn basic math.

[Kelegacy]

Except none of these are dungeons. You get some horsey clothes, a room, and a house.


GoblinToe and others were right - the slippery slope continues. This kind of thing is why MS wanted to get into the console business - and why many of the PC's developers have followed along. Sony is also going in this direction. I'm really hoping that Nintendo doesn't follow along with this crap. If I start seeing new creature add-ons in the next Pokemon for $2 I'm going to toss all of my consoles into the scrap heap and buy some more books.
I really couldn't agree more, Gnome. This upcoming generation could be pushing me back into the land of novels for good. And I already own a 360!

Someday I'll be telling my children about how videogames USED to be, back when they were fun and cost less than five dollars a level...and were longer than movies.

[Achilles]

way to miss my point entirely :rolleyes:

I never mentioned not paying for the game at all, I meant why pay for such insubstantial content? It's complete BS.Then don't buy it and move on about your day. Do you assess the value of everything you're offered in life and then complain if you find it lacking? I bought the damn horse armor just because I'm so sick of hearing people complain about it that I want to hand Bethesda money to apologize for the community's hysterical reaction. I now have a prettier horse to push past on my way into a dungeon.

I was thinking that saddlebags might be a nice mod, but the more I thought about it, they actually wouldn't solve anything.
1) Horses are stabled outside of town, which means you’d need to sit through the long ‘load the rest of the world’ load time every time you went back to your horse to grab more items to take them to the store. This load time is as long as the one to go from the entrance of the dungeon directly to the shop.
2) You have to pack your items out of the dungeon to put them on the horse. This involves a load time every time you do it. Once you’re out there you might as well just elapse time to the store and sell the stuff.

I'd like to see them offer a person who will follow you around into towns that you can pack items onto. Like how the arena lackey follows you around with a torch until he's horribly killed.

And someone earlier in the thread was wondering if you could get glass cases to display your stuff in. The most expensive house that you get has an option to buy glass cases for every room. I agree though that mannequins to display armor on would be awesome.

[torrefaction]

You seriously need to READ!

It has been said that these will cost $1.99. That is less than 2.50. Learn to read or learn basic math.

I really, really hate to ruin your point, because I'm glad your not one of the sniveling idiots who demand communism in gaming (By the way...you paid for the game (and what a huge one it is, as delivered. Not for every bit of content Bethesda feels fit to deliver afterward.) But...Xbox 360 content is $2.50. PC content is $1.99. My gut is they raised the price to match the MS tax.

[torrefaction]

Then don't buy it and move on about your day. Do you assess the value of everything you're offered in life and then complain if you find it lacking?

Preach on.


And someone earlier in the thread was wondering if you could get glass cases to display your stuff in. The most expensive house that you get has an option to buy glass cases for every room. I agree though that mannequins to display armor on would be awesome.

That's pretty awesome.

[Kelegacy]

I bought the damn horse armor just because I'm so sick of hearing people complain about it that I want to hand Bethesda money to apologize for the community's hysterical reaction. I now have a prettier horse to push past on my way into a dungeon.

Holy fuck, you're stupid. I apologize; I truly don't mean to be an asshole--or use such an abundance of cruel insults--but really...you are fucking retarded. That's the most ridiculous reasoning I've heard all week and I work in an office full of grating women. You are one of those gamers that I fear will push us down that slippery slope, if it does indeed exist.

And someone earlier in the thread was wondering if you could get glass cases to display your stuff in. The most expensive house that you get has an option to buy glass cases for every room. I agree though that mannequins to display armor on would be awesome.

Vain a bit? This isn't an MMORPG. You will be displaying your armor for yourself! What's the point, really? Load the game up, walk around your house and admire your loot in the fancy cabinets and stuff?

My head just exploded. I don't think I can visit EvAv for a few days, not after your outrageous post.

[Achilles]

The e-reader was stupid, and I voiced my opinion on that too. I didn't let Nintendo slide - GBA connectivity was also stupid, and I said so at the time. I didn't buy that stuff - just like I won't buy this. Sadly I fear that this will "catch on" an become the norm. I didn't really feel like the e-reader was going to become a standard. :pI agree with you there, the e-card reader would never have caught on, but this probably will. I just thought it was funny that you mentioned it happening to Pokemon since it already had :P

Back when XBLA came out all the games were $20 on there. And nobody bought them, they were simply too expensive. Their pricing model was “figure out what people would pay, then charge $10 more”, seriously. This was a blockheaded pricing model (not put forward by MS, but the other companies that wanted to sell games on there). Now they cost ~$5-$10 and everyone owns 4.

This content will also find out what the market likes and provide it, it’ll just take a bit of experimentation. 2 sets of horse armor = not what people want to pay for; try again.Holy fuck, you're stupid. I apologize; I truly don't mean to be an asshole--or use such an abundance of cruel insults--but really...you are fucking retarded. That's the most ridiculous reasoning I've heard all week and I work in an office full of grating women. You are one of those gamers that I fear will push us down that slippery slope, if it does indeed exist.If you have this sort of reaction to someone else spending $2.00 you need to get your head checked man.You will be displaying your armor for yourself! What's the point, really? Load the game up, walk around your house and admire your loot in the fancy cabinets and stuff? Yes? What's wrong with wanting to see the stuff I collected?

[Stormwatcher]

Ok, Nichols, you are stupid, you have proved that.
Gnome is not stupid, so I'll keep debating him, as soon as he answers any of my points :)

Seriously, the horse armor was indeed dumb, but just dumb, not outrageous.

And the two new buildings are AWESOME.

[Spigot]

Way to go guys, you killed Kelegacy.

I'm still pretty interested in the two new buildings. The barding means nothing to me as I don't even own a horse yet. I still wish that this kind of content would be available free for people who bought the CE, but what can you do?

And this:Devs do have an incentive to add new content: Doing it out of love for the game and for the fans that support them. Bethesda is doing it for purely monetary reasons, because they're a cold unfeeling company that only cares about numbers and statistics.
is the funniest thing I've read all day.

Not to debate with Nichols (as it's been proven that doing so is hazardous to your health), but devs most definately DO have an incentive to make some money out of their work. It's their job. These aren't people who are just sitting around and playing with the map editor on their free time. They are professionals (hopefully) and are doing a professional (hopefully) job designing extra content for the game. If their business model is such that they can release content for free, more power to them. If they (or the powers that be that run the company) decide that the content is worth users paying some amount (be it $0.25 or $2.50), again, so be it.

Not to beat a dead horse (with armour), but extra content for a game is nothing new. Nothing being added with these official mods is something that is essential to completing or otherwise enjoying the game. It's just there to enhance an already huge gaming experience. It will be interesting to see how the sales play out over the next while and whether prices will change or if they'll release bundles of mods at discounted prices after a bit.

It would also be nice if Bethesda released the occasional free mod to foster love in the community. However, if this ends up working and hordes of Oblivion players don't show up at Bethesda wearing 'glass' armour made from Oblivion DVD's, there really wouldn't be much incentive on Bethesda's part to release any free patches.

Hopefully they've learned their lesson and the subsequent official mods are the more meaty Orrery and Wizard Tower types and we won't have to sit through discussions about how the new barber shop mod sucks.

[Nichols]

Not to debate with Nichols (as it's been proven that doing so is hazardous to your health), but devs most definately DO have an incentive to make some money out of their work. It's their job. These aren't people who are just sitting around and playing with the map editor on their free time. They are professionals (hopefully) and are doing a professional (hopefully) job designing extra content for the game. If their business model is such that they can release content for free, more power to them. If they (or the powers that be that run the company) decide that the content is worth users paying some amount (be it $0.25 or $2.50), again, so be it.
Yeah, it's called making the game itself. That's how they get their revenue. Charging money for a stupid skin is just called being a complete leech of your customers.

Give something back to them, y'know, for supporting your game and keeping your job :rolleyes:

[Kelegacy]

Ok, Nichols, you are stupid, you have proved that.
Gnome is not stupid, so I'll keep debating him, as soon as he answers any of my points :)

Seriously, the horse armor was indeed dumb, but just dumb, not outrageous.

And the two new buildings are AWESOME.
What do you do with the two new buildings? Can you go on adventures in them? Can you slay new monsters? Explore new dungeons? Or are they just new buildings, there for show? If they are not gameplay-sensitive, what's the point?

[Spigot]

What do you do with the two new buildings? Can you go on adventures in them? Can you slay new monsters? Explore new dungeons? Or are they just new buildings, there for show? If they are not gameplay-sensitive, what's the point?
From what I've read there are quests to go on (you have to rebuild the Orrery and I'm sure the Mage Tower one has quests attached). The Orrery has links to celestial magic and will bestow powers tied to the stars on the player. Not sure what the Mage Tower will do though.

Yeah, it's called making the game itself. That's how they get their revenue. Charging money for a stupid skin is just called being a complete leech of your customers.
Man, what kind of horrible experience did you receive at the hands of these people?

There is no rule that says they have to give out content for free. Most games don't. They just bundle it up as an expansion pack if they make anything extra at all. The fact that the ES games are made to be modded is fine. That allows amateurs to tweak to their hearts content. Official content, while it may have been free in Morrowind, is not some right bestowed upon us, the customers, just because we bought the game.

Sure, the horse skin was lame. That doesn't seem to be the issue any more. And if they were to do something like charge for patches or release games that weren't fully functional unless you paid for downloadable content, again, most of us here would agree with you.

However, the things they are releasing are completely extra and not integral to the 8 zillion other things you can already do in the game. If you don't like it, don't buy it. They also seem to have stated that they want to get away from the traditional expansion mentality and this is the way they are doing it. I doubt you'd complain if they put the first, say, 10 official mods on a CD, called it Elder Scrolls IV: Signs You Have Too Much Free Time and sold it for $25. We're just not used to doing it this way.

I'm definately tempted by the two structures. I doubt I'll buy the horse armour unless it's bundled in with something else at a later date. The upside of doing things this way is that you can pick and choose which extra content you prefer. Don't care about Mage Towers or rebuilding an observatory? Don't get them. Enjoy prancing about on a horse in full barding, go crazy. Most people would probably like to just get them all on one CD and be done with it, but that just doesn't seem to be happening this time around.

Ah, why do I bother? I come home from work and just want to play some KH2 and I get sucked back into this again...

[Spigot]

Ug. As much as it pains me to actually quote, let alone agree with, Tim Buckley of CAD fame, he did say what I just said only much more succinctly.

I guess I'm not really surprised that people are getting bent out of shape over the pay-for-Oblivion-content thing. Most people are cheap and feel they deserve stuff for free. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I paid for the game, and I got a hell of a lot for my money. That transaction is over and done with. If Bethesda turns around and says "look, you can purchase more content for your game", that's perfectly within their right. It's a business, people.

It's not like Bethesda put out a game, and people played, and after 15 hours the game stopped working, and Bethesda said "ok, now if you want to be able to finish that quest, you'll need to pay us extra money for this patch".

Horse armor wasn't in the game you bought. It's not something that was listed as a feature, and you didn't get it with your main purchase. It's additional. You don't go into a restaurant and order a dinner, and then expect dessert for free just because you paid for dinner. Unless the menu lists dessert as included with your dinner, you expect that it's going to be an additional charge. Why is it different for paid content in video games?
Now let us never speak of this again...

[Sl1pstream]

It was shown in the trailers before release though.

I don't even think that the problem is the fact that they're asking money for this skin, it's just that the price they are asking is way too high for a skin, especially since they've shown that skin before the game even released.

Buckley does the same thing, it will make him look like an idiot if he complaints about this and then continues selling his CAD Premium.

[Spigot]

It was shown in the trailers before release though.

I don't even think that the problem is the fact that they're asking money for this skin, it's just that the price they are asking is way too high for a skin, especially since they've shown that skin before the game even released.
That's a good point. Again, I'm definately not going to bother with the barding for a variety of reasons, and this is yet another one.
Buckley does the same thing, it will make him look like an idiot if he complaints about this and then continues selling his CAD Premium.
Oh, CAD Premium is another overpriced and stinky kettle of fish that I don't even want to go near. Comparing Bethesda's premium content to his own is a stretch too big for even Reed Richards to make. I much prefer the PA Premium, where you merely have to have a net account and a pulse to access content :) .

That said, I do think that the points he brought up with regards to Bethesda's policies (horse skin aside) are valid. Replace 'Horse Armour' in the above quote with 'bonus dungeons' and the idea behind it stands.

[laggerific]

I think part of the issue on this topic is that some people find Oblivion to be less than stellar, and some people find it to be the pinnacle of gaming goodness at a supposed 100+ hours that they are going to play through and then come back years from now and keep playing it. And then there are those who feel that the game is hot air floating on a river of hype. Those are the ones that are disgusted to see people just keep paying more and more money for what is essentially a RPG-lite...they are bitter because they fear this is the direction that RPGs are moving....away from true quality and towards hype and bullshit.

To those complaining about the complainers...don't think you understand everything about the people who feel that Bethesda doesn't deserve to be making extra content for a partial RPG.

Oblivion is plagued by a number of issues, and I'm not talking unintentional bugs...but design decisions that are less impressive than games they are willing to pay for premium content. They don't hate all of this for hypes sake...they can't stand it for the fact that people have been duped into thinking that this is the pinnacle of RPG goodness...and people fear that they have lost the potential for truly immersive and deep RPGs for a good long time.

Okay...I can't speak for everyone, but that at least is how I feel about Oblivion...and charging for friggin horse armor, which should have been the type of thing in the game in the first place...you know different types of armor for the horse, with different ornamentation and all that...you know, because horse armor makes basic sense in a world like that.

I still feel that what we have with Oblivion, outside of what potential content they may create as addons, is a shell of an rpg...a singleplayer grind fest.

[torrefaction]

I still feel that what we have with Oblivion, outside of what potential content they may create as addons, is a shell of an rpg...a singleplayer grind fest.

I am just INCAPABLE of understanding this. RPG's are most of the reason I game. I've extended my tastes, but for years, RPG's where it. I'm sorry you don't feel that characters that respond to events is a "real RPG". Or that the huge story contained within doesn't meet some imaginary RPG criteria you have. So far, I dig the story, quite a bit. Hell...I really like the Mage's guild story, let alone the main quest. But beside that, this is less of a grind than any RPG EVER. What your saying is you want your JRPG's, and how DARE they change the formula.
For instance...In FF7...how many times did you wander back and forth, leveling up your character because the boss was too tough. Did you fight the Emerald Weapon, ever? Then don't complain about grinding. Oblivion makes your character level up in the course of gameplay, based on how you play. Monsters increase in difficulty based on your level, not some imagined bar you have to sit and kill things to reach. Characters react, NPC's steal, People outright attack each other. I've stumbled upon imperial guards in a fight. Ever read RPG World comic, and find that you saw everything they said in every game you ever played. Well, I can talk to people in a tavern, and not feel quite the same way.

This is RPG's extended, and you should applaud them for the goals they set alone, let alone the vast technical achievement.

[Kefkataran]

I still feel that what we have with Oblivion, outside of what potential content they may create as addons, is a shell of an rpg...a singleplayer grind fest.

How is a game where levelling doesn't matter and, indeed, combat is only as important as you make it (or just slightly moreso) a grind fest? I'm not anywhere near saying Oblivion's the pinnacle of gaming or RPGs or any of that, but I still think it's a damned impressive game.

[Achilles]

I still feel that what we have with Oblivion, outside of what potential content they may create as addons, is a shell of an rpg...a singleplayer grind fest.I've played it for 57 hours and never once have I killed anything for money or xp. Let me guess, you've never played Oblivion. You do whatever you want to do, and the game keeps pace with you so that it doesn’t become unchallenging. That is the opposite of grinding.

[Nichols]

I like how me and the Kvatch guards were right in the middle of taking back the Kvatch castle and I just up and left. Two levels laters I returned and they were still standing in the same positions as when I left them. RADIANT AI IN ACTION. Talk about a living world! Oblivion a true next-gen experience. if only those crappy ol Fallout and Geneforge games could ever measure up to it's HDR normal-mapped awesomeness
You do whatever you want to do
What if I want to kill Jauffre or the heir? Can't do that lest I "Sever the prophecy" :rolleyes:

Oblivion really is just a shell of a possibly great game. Beth left a lot of gaping holes in there and they just go "Eh, let the modders fill them in" or "BUY OUR MODS PLZ"

And yes, you do having to fucking grind. The game is boring as shit in the lower-levels, with the same enemies over and over again and the same crappy lot. At least Morrowind would trick things up a bit and throw in a powerful monster every now and then and actually have some good loot in the dungeons. In Oblivion, we just get some rats and goblins, along with two chests filled with 5 gold each and like a million lockpicks.

[Kefkataran]

Nichols: SHUT. THE FUCK. UP. ALREADY. Everyone here knows your opinion. You dislike Oblivion. You think players should be allowed to do more than the game lets you. WE GET IT. Move on, man. There is NO REASON to continue posting in any Oblivion threads for you anymore. WE ALL KNOW YOU DISLIKE THE GAME. Almost everyone has either played it for themselves or just developed an opinion, and it's not likely you're going to change anyone else's opinion just as anyone else isn't going to change yours. You're wasting everyone's times with these continuous pointless posts rehashing the same four or five points you've made over and over again.

[GunnyMo]

Nichols: SHUT. THE FUCK. UP. ALREADY. Everyone here knows your opinion. You dislike Oblivion. You think players should be allowed to do more than the game lets you. WE GET IT. Move on, man. There is NO REASON to continue posting in any Oblivion threads for you anymore. WE ALL KNOW YOU DISLIKE THE GAME. Almost everyone has either played it for themselves or just developed an opinion, and it's not likely you're going to change anyone else's opinion just as anyone else isn't going to change yours. You're wasting everyone's times with these continuous pointless posts rehashing the same four or five points you've made over and over again.

Quoted for posterity and redundancy although I doubt Nichols will get the point. Kef, I think Nichols is stuck in a loop. He's not hearing anything anyone rational has to say.

I hit level 20 last night and am thoroughly enjoying the game. :D

[Spigot]

Can I keep making my same four or five rebuttals per hour? My typing speed has improved dramatically.

I wonder why he keeps bringing up Fallout and Geneforge. I think he's the only person to talk about them in the thread yet he acts as though people are saying that Oblivion is better. Strange behaviour from that lad, to be sure...

It's funny that he hates the game so much he feels compelled to play for 27+ hours and rant about it every two. I wish I had that much free time to play and yap about something I despise.

Someone should just give Nichols a smack like Fonz smacks a jukebox. That should get him out of his loop and bring sanity to the boards.

He does bring up an interesting point though. What happens in Oblivion if you decide to kill one of the main quest links? (Jauffre is a great example)

I know that in Morrowind they had it set so you could pretty much decimate the population of Vvardenfell aside from one particular NPC and the game wouldn't be broken. Is that still possible in Cyrodiil or can we no longer carry out genocidal pogroms against the Artificially Intelligent? I wonder if Bethesda coded in an outcome to deal with that behaviour. If by killing them the hordes of Oblivion overrun Tamriel, that would be just as valid as the 'good' outcome if they don't die. You'd just have to deal with the repercussions of your actions, you sociopathic murderer, you.

[Kefkataran]

Someone should just give Nichols a smack like Fonz smacks a jukebox. That should get him out of his loop and bring sanity to the boards.

We seriously need more obligatory Fonzie references on these forums. AYYYYYYY!

What happens in Oblivion if you decide to kill one of the main quest links? (Jauffre is a great example)


You can't. Quest-sensitive characters have "crowns" if you target them. These characters cannot be killed until the crown is removed (i.e. until you've past the point where they're necessary to advance the quest). Whether it's from you or attacking enemies, you can only knock them out. Helps stop questlines from being broken.

That said, I recall an interview where Bethesda says that you can get to the point where there's only one person with a crown left and everyone else can be killed.

[Savok]

Yeah the crown is there when they're VITAL, if there's another way without that character or they can be replaced they can die.

This helps with the save/load of murdering in Morrowind, though even then it was only possible because the main quest there had a back door.

[Kefkataran]

This helps with the save/load of murdering in Morrowind, though even then it was only possible because the main quest there had a back door.

Heh, back door.

...

Son of a bitch, I've been exposed to way too much Kelegacy lately.

[Stormwatcher]

BTW, Ultima 7 DIDN'T have the crown system, and people would bitch endlessly about how stupid that was.

There will always be dumbfucks like nikols to whine about anything at all, and they're ever more of them around when the game is "free-er" than average.

Nichols is overreacting, though. You know what game is just a shell of a greater game? Gun. It could have been a fucking watershed moment, but it was a rushed buggy and lovable thing.

Well, lemme join Kefka in the "STFU" choir.

g'bye.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Ok, Nichols, you are stupid, you have proved that.
Gnome is not stupid, so I'll keep debating him, as soon as he answers any of my points :)

Seriously, the horse armor was indeed dumb, but just dumb, not outrageous.

And the two new buildings are AWESOME.



Aww, you don't think I'm stupid. That makes me feel better. :)

I really don't want to debate this anymore. I wish I could be playing Oblivion right now, I think that these paid for addons are silly and I don't want to see this mark the end of free content, but I also really don't care anymore if others buy them or not. So be it. :p