Xbox 360 Design Postmortem

[Ophelea]

GamersInfo.net (http://www.gamersinfo.net) reports on the GDC Xbox 360 Design Postmortem:

The team had very specific goals when they approached designing a next-generation system. First and foremost, it had to be approachable and accessible for traditional non-gamers, but still give off that certain aura respected by the hardcore gamers. The team started by taking a look at the original Xbox system, which had the theme of "The Hulk", the big green super-hero that is filled with raw, brutal power. They decided fairly early on in development to modify this theme so something more restrained-"Bruce Lee", the great martial arts performer: all that power, but hidden just below the surface.
Further design decisions can be found here (http://www.gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:949).

[bone_matrix]

In the "HD-Era", televisions are widescreen and bear a 16x9 aspect ratio while older televisions maintain a more square-like 4x3 ratio. What the team ultimately decided upon was to design the interface in a 14x9 ratio. This allowed for them to create just one set of menus which not only saved on time and money but also the precious memory envelope they had to work with. By squeezing the 14x9 into 4x3 and stretching and cropping it to fit the wider 16x9, they found a suitable compromise.

Just quoting the text, but it seemed interesting to me. I started playing the 360 on a 20'' flat screen 4:3 tv, and am now enjoying it on a 26" flat screen 16:9 HDTV. The difference, even in the menu (blades) is huge. I never would have guessed that it was just a subtle difference.

And this quote just seems ridiculous:

The user interface was one of the more difficult designs to accomplish. While the original Xbox had 250MB of space to utilize, the Xbox360 had only 4.5MB uncompressed or 1.5MB in total! Not only this, they expanded on the original Xbox's 45 screens and grew it ten fold to 450 screens!

Seems like a bunch of wated space on the Xbox. Thats all I got.

edit: spelling

[Kelegacy]

I realized my HD CRT is a pile of shit. It doesn't support 720p, apparently. I get 480p and 1080i, but I swear the latter makes Oblivion run a bit less smooth. I can't really tell the difference (I'm not much of a gfx conneiseur yet) so I keep it in 480p because it bugs me when I switch my tv to 16:9. Black bars bother me.

Actually, I lied. I can tell the difference. Especially in the character inventory screen, where my Bosmer is displayed. More shiny stuff. But still, I'm bugged by the 16:9 ratio on my 4:3 tv, even if my CRT supports it.

[Nintendo Revolution]

Funny thing about all of the concept screens (with exception of the GUI), everything except for the current designs look like garbage.

[thecrazyd]

Bruce Lee? That fucker is just as big as the regular XBox. The pictures are just decieving.

[crashedout]

Bruce Lee? That fucker is just as big as the regular XBox. The pictures are just decieving.

I would not say that, I have them right next to each other. The 360 is about 25% smaller but looks a lot slimer due to its concave design. Mind you if they put the ps in the 360 box it would have been bigger.

[Dr Quincy]

How can they even be remotely proud of the utterly unintuitive banks of generic menus which constitute the front end? It's the most ghastly over-complicated balls ever.

[markster3000]

Woah, seeing this post gave me a bit of deja-vu...

Back in November, two former students of my university (University of Waterloo) who now work on the 360 team, came to campus to give a bit of a talk about it, and the design process.

This is the exact presentation. Same powerpoint presentation, same reference to "The Hulk vs. Bruce Lee", same everything.

I wonder if it was the same two guys giving the presentation...

[BabyJesus]

How can they even be remotely proud of the utterly unintuitive banks of generic menus which constitute the front end? It's the most ghastly over-complicated balls ever.


If you think the xbox360 interface is complicated, how in fucks sake did you make it here to post that stupid fucking message?

[EternalGamer]

I realized my HD CRT is a pile of shit. It doesn't support 720p, apparently. I get 480p and 1080i, but I swear the latter makes Oblivion run a bit less smooth. I can't really tell the difference (I'm not much of a gfx conneiseur yet) so I keep it in 480p because it bugs me when I switch my tv to 16:9. Black bars bother me.

Actually, I lied. I can tell the difference. Especially in the character inventory screen, where my Bosmer is displayed. More shiny stuff. But still, I'm bugged by the 16:9 ratio on my 4:3 tv, even if my CRT supports it.


On the plus side, Kelegacy, 480p is still taking advantage of your TV and looks pretty nice (especially with films if you have a progressive scan DVD player). Also most HDTVs (especially CRTS) just have a lot better picture quality in general in terms of color, brightness etc. If/when you do end up upgrading, don't knock CRTs completely off your list, the higher end ones have fantastic scaling. I have a Sony XBR960 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ygnYR6cRvA2/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?I=158kd34xbr&search=XBR960N) and it just looks beautiful, much better in my opinion (and of many electronic experts) than any available plasma or LCD. That is the primary reason I bought it over the LCDs I was looking at (which were about double the price).

Dan

[jwbxx]

Woah, seeing this post gave me a bit of deja-vu...

Back in November, two former students of my university (University of Waterloo) who now work on the 360 team, came to campus to give a bit of a talk about it, and the design process.

This is the exact presentation. Same powerpoint presentation, same reference to "The Hulk vs. Bruce Lee", same everything.

I wonder if it was the same two guys giving the presentation...lol, small world.

[Dr Quincy]

If you think the xbox360 interface is complicated, how in fucks sake did you make it here to post that stupid fucking message?

It's not complicated so much as unintuitive. Massively overlong menu trees, page upon page of generic looking "scroll up/scroll down, press X" lists. Why can't the front end for the console be as imaginitive or interesting as the games which are designed to run on it?

I don't want Windows Vista Lite For Joypads thanks.

[Nessus]

I still think the 360 is ugly.

The silver disc tray with the generic font (and why a tray? I hate trays. The trays on my PS2 AND Xbox are both on their way out, self-loading is the way to go) against the off-white console, it almost looks like an old tower PC, and I personally don't like the concave design. The only part of the console that I think looks cool is the top where the hard drive slides in. I like that.

I like the look of the Rev the most, followed closely by the PS3 minus the Spider-Man font.

[silv]

How can they even be remotely proud of the utterly unintuitive banks of generic menus which constitute the front end? It's the most ghastly over-complicated balls ever.

I'm guessing you've never actually used the 360 for more than 30 seconds.

[Zeal]

I'm not interested in all this marketing talk, I'm interested in how good the games can look. Thus far, I haven't seen anything on 360 (besides Oblivion, possibly) that looks next-gen or cutting-edge.

I don't care what anyone says, the leap from Xbox to 360 is hardly noticeable.

Edit: As yes, the 360 is one ugly console.

[Achilles]

I really like the look of the 360, I didn’t like it so much in marketing shots back before it was released, but sitting in my living room it actually looks really slick, and it is significantly smaller looking than the Xbox.

The UI could be improved, and it sounds like they’re probably working on that. The biggest problem with it is the amount of content on Live. It would have worked fine if Marketplace hadn’t taken off. It’s still functional if you search for content by game, but there’s just way too much stuff on there.

[Dr Quincy]

I'm guessing you've never actually used the 360 for more than 30 seconds.

Try daily since November of last year. I really don't understand how you can be so supportive of this nightmare of design.

My sympathies for anybody, like myself, who has been forced to endure the XBOX 360 dashboard for any longer than 30 seconds.

I know this post reeks of trollage, but I feel negative hyperbole is justified when so much is spouted regarding the glory of this next generation machine. I for one frequently find it to be the antithesis of progressive design.

[Logik]

I know this post reeks of trollage
It probably wouldn't if you stated a few reasons instead of just complaining about it.

[Dr Quincy]

I did didn't I? The excessively long and complex menu trees, and rather uninspiring menus to name just two. I can't be alone in this estimation surely? Or is this forum filled with people who crack one out to scrollable menus with customisable themes. Golly!

[bone_matrix]

I did didn't I? The excessively long and complex menu trees, and rather uninspiring menus to name just two. I can't be alone in this estimation surely? Or is this forum filled with people who crack one out to scrollable menus with customisable themes. Golly!

Well, what do you suggest? It gets the job done, but I will admit that it can be better. I beleive that it is better than the orininal Xbox's UI. I wish menu's would load faster (like friends lists) and some less screens. 450 screens is just ridiculous.

Zeal: GRAW doesn't look next gen? COD2 doesn't look next gen? I'm not sure what you want, but I can say don't expect more from the PS3. While graphical improvements may not be the greatest, the system has better capabilities when it comes to just about everything, which IS next-gen. Graphics alone does not equal nextgen.

[Kelegacy]

I did didn't I? The excessively long and complex menu trees, and rather uninspiring menus to name just two. I can't be alone in this estimation surely? Or is this forum filled with people who crack one out to scrollable menus with customisable themes. Golly!
Are you talking about the 360 dashboard and menus? Because I think they are gorgeous and extremely easy to navigate.

I also customized them to a point where I'm afraid to change anything because I fear I'd never remember how I got the menus to look that sweet in the first place.

[Heretic Machine]

I too am a big fan of the 360 UI. It's actually one of my favorite improvments over the original XBOX, as I've always believed that a console's UI should be used for more than just memory managment and setting the system clock. The 360 is the first to make me want to start right there on the dashboard, rather than just hopping into the game... Oddly enough, I think it's also the first (of the consoles that have UI's built-in) that doesn't allow me to do that -.-

[mister_slim]

The 360 is the first to make me want to start right there on the dashboard, rather than just hopping into the game... Oddly enough, I think it's also the first (of the consoles that have UI's built-in) that doesn't allow me to do that -.-
Hmm? Does it automatically start the game when you put the disk in? I hate the way the Xbox does that.

[Heretic Machine]

Hmm? Does it automatically start the game when you put the disk in? I hate the way the Xbox does that.

Yup, and it also starts up by going to whatever game is in the drive. It's REALLY annoying.

[MrMeatshake]

Yup, and it also starts up by going to whatever game is in the drive. It's REALLY annoying.

hrm. and u can't hold down the dash button on the controller while it boots or anything?

[Roc Ingersol]

Seems like a bunch of wated space on the Xbox. Thats all I got.
The original xbox dashboard had the entire system to itself when it was running. It didn't actually use all that much memory, but it could have.

The 360's dashboard is sitting in memory at all times, so (understandably) it has to be fairly svelte.

[mister_slim]

The original xbox dashboard had the entire system to itself when it was running. It didn't actually use all that much memory, but it could have.

The 360's dashboard is sitting in memory at all times, so (understandably) it has to be fairly svelte.
It also has to fit in ROM memory rather than hanging out on one of those 'hard drive' things that all those Xboxes had.

[Busted_Astromech]

hrm. and u can't hold down the dash button on the controller while it boots or anything?

The best I've been able to figure out is rapidly pressing the guide button so that as soon as the game boots you get the guide menu and can hit Y to go back to the Dashboard. It's either that, or open the tray as you turn the system on (but you can't close it with the game in because it'll auto-run).