PS3 HDD Confirmed Standard

[Dracula-X]

There was some confusion with Sony's recent announcements (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10634) on whether the HDD will be a separate accessory. Yahoo UK claims to have confirmation that it will indeed be a part of the package (http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/25/news/ps3-will-have-hard-drive-as-standard-3c0925.html); upgradable, too.

Some of the larger US websites have been speculating that PlayStation 3 would be shipping with an optional 60GB hard disc drive. However we can confirm this morning that all PS3 consoles will be sold with the HDD out of the box. Sony's president of Computer Entertainment, Ken Kutaragi, announced on Wednesday that all PS3 games are being developed to take advantage of the 60GB HDD.
No multiple SKUs, so far so good.

[SMES]

No multiple SKUs, so far so good.

Let's not speak too soon.

[Dracula-X]

Let's not speak too soon.
You're right, I should be more cautious :)

But the announcement put to rest the idea of a PS3 without a BD drive, and now we know the HDD is standard. So, I was implying it doesn't look like we'll get a HDD-less Core retard pack, but I can't imagine another configuration outside of the two major assets (BD/HDD) that can be offered...

[Grimmjow]

i find this as hawt info, THX drac

[Zanzibar]

Yipes. That $800-per-PS3 cost estimate (http://rsch1.ml.com/9093/24013/ds/276873_0.PDF) didn't include a hard drive in the analysis. Chalk up another $60-80 for that.

[Grimmjow]

Yipes. That $800-per-PS3 cost estimate (http://rsch1.ml.com/9093/24013/ds/276873_0.PDF) didn't include a hard drive in the analysis. Chalk up another $60-80 for that.

thats some intesresting info but iono im never found of analysis of any kind

[thecrazyd]

Yipes. That $800-per-PS3 cost estimate (http://rsch1.ml.com/9093/24013/ds/276873_0.PDF) didn't include a hard drive in the analysis. Chalk up another $60-80 for that.
No offense intended, but those estimates are bullshit, and there a 60 gig hard drive, purchased in bulk would most likely cost a lot less.

[Heretic Machine]

Yipes. That $800-per-PS3 cost estimate (http://rsch1.ml.com/9093/24013/ds/276873_0.PDF) didn't include a hard drive in the analysis. Chalk up another $60-80 for that.

Yes, just like the $10,000 PSP estimates.

[Kagger]

Remember when the PSP was estimated at $500? Price estimates are awesome!

[SMES]

The PS3, whatever it ends up being, will be priced about as much as an Xbox 360. Why does anyone doubt this? A plus-or-minus $100 seems reasonable, but does anyone actually think it's going to be $500 or more?

[PXG 360]

At the most, I think it will $500.00. But something is telling me that it will most likely be $400.00.

[bapenguin]

It's coming out at $499 with a hard drive. This is good news.

Microsoft...you look like fools now with your pitiful non standard 20 gig hd.

[Megalith]

Microsoft will probably just stop selling Cores.

[zangster]

Microsoft will probably just stop selling Cores.
It would probably make more sense for them to do so at this point anyhow considering that's probably the more popular of the two systems. Just write-off the two SKU thing as a failed experiment, get developers back on board with an HD in every box and then start pumping out premium systems. My guess is that most people with a core system wanted the premium but it wasn't available.

[ruprect]

Hmm. . . so if Microsoft does a $50 cost break on both Core and Premium, putting the core at $250, which would be half (supposedly) of what the PS3 will cost. . . that is a bad move?

I got a premium myself, but if most of the games for both generations are cross platform and a non-hardcore person was looking at getting a next-gen console, wouldn't $250 look appealing as compared to $500? You would be able to play most of the next-gen games, and buy at least 4 of them right off the bat for the price it would cost you for a PS3.

I'm not sure the 2-SKU's are a great idea, but the only people I've ever heard comment on it were people who are big gamers.

Microsoft at the $250 level would be competing with Revolution at $200. Is that dumb? They beat GameCube in North America despite their consistently higher price point.

Also, except for downloads and extras, the HD wasn't used that much for previous generation games. PS2 and GameCube did fine without them. (Morrowind never had them) For most people buying a game for $50 I don't know that new downloadable content plays a big part in their decision. Community mod's which hardcore gamers salivate over will never come to a console (except maybe a map or 2 if there is an editor).

I personally wish that the HD had been standard for faster load times and downloadable content. . . but if the standard release games are good for one console as opposed to the other. . . or the same . . . or better. . . an HD doesn't seem to make a difference to the general public. Downloadable content and slightly better load times just don't seem to matter.

[OrangePulp]

It's coming out at $499 with a hard drive. This is good news.

Source for the price? Or is this just a (reasonable) assumption?

I like the idea of the HDD being standard, and as someone pointed out, if you're buying 60 GB HDs in bulk, they really shouldn't cost that much per unit.

[TrackZero]

Remember when the PSP was estimated at $500? Price estimates are awesome!

Mine cost about that. After taxes of course. ;)

[TrackZero]

Microsoft...you look like fools now with your pitiful non standard 20 gig hd.

Bap, I'm sooooo going to hold this quote over your head down the road.

[Norse]

I've got a premium, but so far I have had zero use for it. I'm not connected to the net with it, I don't use it for any music/movies/pictures, I'm not playing any old xbox games, I just play x360 games. A Core +memory card would have been good enough for me. The only thing I would change with the core is to include a wireless controller instead of a wired. Wires are soooo yesterdays news :). I actually think there is a market for Core; casual gamers who only wants to play x360 games on their console...

[Paranoia]

Its 9 months to go, and Sony have yet to even announce the price of the console. I take this info with a grain of salt.

[rainbowblack]

I JUST ANALYZED THAT THE PS3 WITH COST NO LESS THAN 350 AND NO MORE THAN 500

an this is fact cause us analysts know our stuff

[Zeal]

PS3 will be $499, mark my words. Oh and as for Sony including the HDD as standard and developing games to actually utilize it...

Microsoft = owned.

[WileE.Coyte]

Sony is playing for keeps. I honestly didn't expect to see this from them. I will put my left nut on the table and bet that Halo 3 will be HDD only.

[Achilles]

Wow, Sony’s either not going to do this- their system’s going to cost a fortune- or they’re going to use standard, big IDE hard drives which will mean either it’ll be external or their case will be huge (the PS3 dev kits are large to put it mildly, sure they’re dev kits, but they’re really large for a dev kit).

This new news really isn’t as positive for Sony as it would first seem but it’ll take the system actually coming out for people to understand why, again, assuming they’re not just saying this stuff to keep people from buying 360s. Keep in mind up until now they were saying it would come out in spring, the hard drive would be optional, it would not be for use with games, games would come on either DVD or Blu-Ray, etc. They’ve flipped on a bunch of major things with this press release and I doubt they’ll follow through with all of them.

A lot of mysterious and interesting stuff is going down with this system. I predict it will be a DVR out of the box.

If anyone was wondering why MS lost so much money on the Xbox, it was because they had a harddrive standard in every system, and they used Nvidia for their video card.

[bapenguin]

Bap, I'm sooooo going to hold this quote over your head down the road.

Hey, I'm calling it like I see it. I defended the move when it happened. I KNOW why they did it, they wanted to claim a 299 launch price. But now it's a lost cause. With the new artist of the month thing, 10 available demos, 20 live arcade games 20 gig is looking ridiculously pitiful (especially since it's really 13 gig). To top it off, everyone is buying the core system just to turn it into a premium.

But it's too late now, they can never say the HD is required for games and will always be there because they can never be sure.

And the $499 price point is a reasonable guess. Sony is already having financial trouble, cutting jobs and costs. SPlitting divisions and reorganzing. I just don't seem them taking a $400 loss PER system. The damn thing will sell just fine at $499.

[bone_matrix]

I can't really complain about the HDD being standard. I like it. I was about to say that haveing a core system with a memory card is crap. But then I remember that if I didn't play XBLA I wouldn't need a harddrive. But, I don't know. I just want a price damn it. And see games. And the controller. Bah, its early morning, I have to deliver furniture in the snow, and I'm still not awake. Maybe I'll make sense later in the day. Maybe.

[MosBen]

Given how much mis-information there has been circling around the PS3, I'm going to wait until a little closer to launch to really form opinions on specific features (other than BR movies, which I think is stupid generally).

Here's something to think about: How many Core systems are actually out there? Personally, I bought a Core system because it was what was available, but then I added in an HDD. In fact, in my experience, and I've heard annecdotally that this is somewhat widespread, the addon HDD was sold out in most stores, even those that no longer had any systems in stock. This tells me that some high percentage of Core systems sold are now functionally Premium systems; we just didn't get the nifty extras like the remote control.

So between those of us that are already playing on functionally Premium systems and the number of Core users that would be converted by a price drop in the HDD, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that developers could start considering the HDD as a standard device, especially if MS stopped producing the Core system.

[KNOTE]

No offense intended, but those estimates are bullshit, and there a 60 gig hard drive, purchased in bulk would most likely cost a lot less.
The problem with a hard drive is not the just the cost of the drive, even though that is expensive. It is the upgraded power, cabling, etc. that all adds up. And you cannot cost reduce a drive because it has a fixed cost associated with the mechanical parts. MS learned this the hard way on xbox. When you're talking about hardware costs you have to think of it times 100 million since that is your ultimate sales goal. That's why during a hardware cycle console manufacturers will even switch screws to save money.

Sony is probably making it standard because they plan to sell you lots of content on it. I applaud the decision because we developers can count on it being there. The 360 core system was a terrible decision.

[Syl]

I just want to know if it's going to use a standard harddrive like the PS2 did.

I have a generic 160 gig Western Digital harddrive in my PS2 and it works perfectly fine.

[Kamalot]

It would be great if it shipped with a hard drive. But, of cource, they will. Sony wants you to buy music (AATRAC) from their online store. They want you to buy Memory sticks to transfer the songs to your PSP. They want you to download TV Shows form their iTunes-like service, heavily DRM'd.

Sony wants a hard drive, but it has little to do with gaming.

[fable2323]

The PS3 will more then likely ship in the States for $299. The Japanese are the one who get the shaft on console prices. The original PS2 shipped for $425 in Japan and then $299 in the States. So with a similar pricing structure you will probably see a lower price then most people are anticipating. Like Kagger said, just look at the PSP, much lower price then everyone estimated. Oh yeah, the PSP also shipped $110 more in Japan then it did in the States as well. Poor guys....

[CrysDark]

I am thinking the bigger harddrives to save money.

Making it standard was great and really kick microsoft in the nuts with thier poor experiment.

Of course micrsoft now has the flexability to drop the core system. They also have barganing power over HDD manufacture. They can go up to them and say we can commit to buying 10 million HDD's from you, how low can you go per unit. That should offset the cost mistake from last time. (Which was realted to MS's ignorance in making deals, fixed cost of harddrive be damned, if you can commite to a high volume you can reduce that cost significantly. That or switch to solid state which seems to be plummeting in price latley. )

[CrysDark]

The PS3 will more then likely ship in the States for $299. The Japanese are the one who get the shaft on console prices. The original PS2 shipped for $425 in Japan and then $299 in the States. So with a similar pricing structure you will probably see a lower price then most people are anticipating. Like Kagger said, just look at the PSP, much lower price then everyone estimated. Oh yeah, the PSP also shipped $110 more in Japan then it did in the States as well. Poor guys....


This is true, but the Japanese don't get the shaft. They don't look at value the same way we do. The japanese take pride in thier purchases and are offended if they are trying to be sold a cheap product. (This was posted on this site sometime ago).

We also need to keep in mind a price-war. Gates has repeatedly commented that when the PS3 launches they have the ability to come in with a price cut.

Sony will have to do alot of marketing reaserch before the dare come out with a higher price. Remeber thier primary target this season is not us early adopters. It the mommies and daddies who will be shopping this holiday season and most of them don't see past price, and what little timmy tells them to get.

Timmy says" I need a new game player"
Mom at store sees xbox and ps3, what is going to make her decide, it sure is hell are not going to be system specs, it will be price.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I'm really hoping that the Xbox 360 sees a price cut - on the system, periphals, and hopefully the games, as well as an upgrade to a larger HDD when the PS3 launches. I'll buy a 360 if that happens. If not I'll wait until it does and enjoy the Revolution in the meantime. I want a 360 now (I didn't care at all a month ago), but I'm not going to sell a kidney just to buy one.

Here's hoping the PS3 launch spurs MS to make some good (for me) pricing decisions.

[thecrazyd]

Timmy says" I need a new game player"
Mom at store sees xbox and ps3, what is going to make her decide, it sure is hell are not going to be system specs, it will be price.
Except Timmy doesn't ask for a new game player. He asks for a new Playstation.

[president_fred]

No tiny tim asks for a merry christmas but is struck dead by cholera working in work houses *bah humbug*

[Dracula-X]

As for price, Sony has said the unit will not cost less than 50,000.00 JP YEN. This equates to $425.607 USD.
Historically, playstation consoles come out a bit cheaper in other territories (outside of Japan). $399 might not be out of the question, but $499 wouldn't surprise me at this point. I don't think they'll go that high however.

[mister_slim]

I guess I'm still the only one who thinks the Core pack was a good idea. Personally, I'd prefer the PS3 work without the drive as well. Give customers the choice between a $40 512 meg memory stick or a $70 60 gig hard drive. They'll end up with a hard drive if they want one later, and you won't be losing money on unused space or sticking them with a hard drive that's too small.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I'd be surprised if they charged $500 for it. That's just an insane price. Then again MS has pushed up prices all around with success, so I suppose Sony can just one up them there. :(

[Megalith]

How the hell is PS3 not going to be $500 with Blu-lay and a 60gig HD.

[ECM]

Yipes. That $800-per-PS3 cost estimate (http://rsch1.ml.com/9093/24013/ds/276873_0.PDF) didn't include a hard drive in the analysis. Chalk up another $60-80 for that.

Yipes! And they'll still sell it for not a penny more than the 360 (Why? Because, simply, they aren't that stupid but I'm sure plenty will try to re-direct the argument to that comment if one ensues)--I, for one, don't care if Sony wants to subsidize the hell out of their console and anyone that does care is, likely, little more than an MS-fanboy whom, for whatever reason, lives vicariously through internecine corporate warfare.

[Kelegacy]

I'm a total retard. I just submitted this as news. Sorry bapenguin and fitty. I didn't even see this on the front page.

Anyway, this is excellent news. And no way will the PS3 be 499 stateside. They have already said that the PS3 will be no less than $425 (USD conversion) in Japan, but I still can't imagine it being more than 400 dollars. I'll give it a 50 dollar window, though.

A standard, UTILIZED HDD. You can thank the Xbox 1 for this. The PS3 will be a better system this time around thanks to Microsoft innovating with the original Xbox. Competition = good.

[Yeti2005]

Anyway, this is excellent news. And no way will the PS3 be 499 stateside. They have already said that the PS3 will be no less than $425 (USD conversion) in Japan, but I still can't imagine it being more than 400 dollars. I'll give it a 50 dollar window, though.


Why couldn't Sony charge 499 for the machine? Blu-Ray players might still be in the 700-800 dollar range in Nov so it'll still seem like a steal to the consumer. I do applaud Sony for making the HD standard and I hope they use it to it's fullest (downloadable games, content, music, movies, etc).

[TrackZero]

Hey, I'm calling it like I see it. I defended the move when it happened. I KNOW why they did it, they wanted to claim a 299 launch price. But now it's a lost cause. With the new artist of the month thing, 10 available demos, 20 live arcade games 20 gig is looking ridiculously pitiful (especially since it's really 13 gig). To top it off, everyone is buying the core system just to turn it into a premium.

But it's too late now, they can never say the HD is required for games and will always be there because they can never be sure.

And the $499 price point is a reasonable guess. Sony is already having financial trouble, cutting jobs and costs. SPlitting divisions and reorganzing. I just don't seem them taking a $400 loss PER system. The damn thing will sell just fine at $499.

Of course, what with all the downloading, you don't think we'd exceed 60gb as well? Either way, that means MS will start selling larger hard drives sooner and more often than Sony. So they'll make more of a profit.

[TrackZero]

I guess I'm still the only one who thinks the Core pack was a good idea. Personally, I'd prefer the PS3 work without the drive as well. Give customers the choice between a $40 512 meg memory stick or a $70 60 gig hard drive. They'll end up with a hard drive if they want one later, and you won't be losing money on unused space or sticking them with a hard drive that's too small.

At first the no harddrive thing was shocking to me. But now, I'm starting to come around and realize what a better idea it was in many respects. Price point (both for the low inital cost of ownership and then increased sales of hard drives down the road), market share and in some ways, game design. This way you still can force developers to properly support memory cards instead of just using the drive (therefore all game saves are portable), while the harddrive can still always be used optionally supported by any game.

And hell, if Oblivion can run without a harddrive, then I really don't think any other type of title will suffer for the possible lack of it.

But we won't see how successful this move was until a few years down the road, in retrospect, like always.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

How the hell is PS3 not going to be $500 with Blu-lay and a 60gig HD.

Why in the hell wasn't the Xbox $700 with the Pentium 3's and the state of the art Nvidia chips? Have you been paying attention for very long? :rolleyes:


I don't understand how the HD should factor into the price all that much. If Sony makes even semi-intelligent deals with vendors then the HD will be one of the least expensive components in the system.


Why couldn't Sony charge 499 for the machine? Blu-Ray players might still be in the 700-800 dollar range in Nov so it'll still seem like a steal to the consumer. I do applaud Sony for making the HD standard and I hope they use it to it's fullest (downloadable games, content, music, movies, etc).


There is a key difference between this and the PS2 DVD playing ability though. Blu-ray != DVD. I really don't think that demand for Blu-Ray will be nearly as high as demand for DVD players was back at the turn of the millenium. At least not when the PS3 hits, if ever.

[Achilles]

Why in the hell wasn't the Xbox $700 with the Pentium 3's and the state of the art Nvidia chips? Have you been paying attention for very long? :rolleyes:I think what he was getting at is that the 360 premium is already being sold at a loss. Say maybe it costs $470 to make. Now sure it's got the advanced chips, and the badass ATI GPU, but the PS3 has a badass Nvidia GPU and it also has advanced, custom chips. In addition to that its hard drive is supposedly 6 times as large and its got an experimental disk drive which is bound to cost more than one that's been around for a while. The PS3 will be more expensive to make for sure, whether they'll pass some of that on or eat it is the question.

[mister_slim]

And hell, if Oblivion can run without a harddrive, then I really don't think any other type of title will suffer for the possible lack of it.
I was wondering about that actually. Have any of the reviews mentioned how well Oblivion runs without the hard drive? I'm sure it works, but I wonder what the loading times are like.

But we won't see how successful this move was until a few years down the road, in retrospect, like always.
Yeah, when MS is selling Cores for $99 the benefit will be obvious. I've been thinking about buying a new Xbox because mine is pretty much dead, MS support has been no help, and I really doubt all my games ever all be playable on the 360. I'm not paying $180 bucks for one though.
Now sure it's got the advanced chips, and the badass ATI GPU, but the PS3 has a badass Nvidia GPU and it also has advanced, custom chips.
I still think people are overestimating the cost of Cell. The economies of scale on Cell are much more favorable than on Xenon.

[Achilles]

I still think people are overestimating the cost of Cell. The economies of scale on Cell are much more favorable than on Xenon.It could be that people are overestimating the cost of the Cell, but why are the economics of scale more favorable on it than Xenon? Are you referring to the one SPE not needing to work in order for it to be called a functional chip?

[Yeti2005]

Regardless of the cost, the PS3 is going to be extremely scarce until 2007 (I'm expecting the US to get about 400k to 500k at launch if we're lucky a 1 mil but the end of the year). I'm going to pre-order one as soon as that's an option. If the launch titles suck then I'll flip it for a profit (I know that's a sort of scummy thing to do but it's all about supply and demand).

[mister_slim]

It could be that people are overestimating the cost of the Cell, but why are the economics of scale more favorable on it than Xenon? Are you referring to the one SPE not needing to work in order for it to be called a functional chip?
More that it's not a bespoke chip and it's already shipping in other products.

[TrackZero]

Why in the hell wasn't the Xbox $700 with the Pentium 3's and the state of the art Nvidia chips? Have you been paying attention for very long? :rolleyes:


I don't understand how the HD should factor into the price all that much. If Sony makes even semi-intelligent deals with vendors then the HD will be one of the least expensive components in the system.


Well, Sony isn't at an all time financial high right now, so they can't afford to take as big of a loss on cutting the system price (I thought this had already been discussed months ago). Though I don't think they'll have too much of a choice at this point, I still expect the PS3 is go for $450-499 (though if they go over $500, that'd be very very bad).

Go check out "Opening the Xbox", you'd be surprised at the costs every new component adds to the system price. The component vendors love to gouge for price in their contracts (at least near the start of the systems launch).