Oblivion Countdown: 5 days

[Deathbane27]

Bethesda has released a third teaser video (http://elderscrolls.com/downloads/media_movies.htm), featuring a few short combat clips.

No new screenshots today, but instead a new book (http://elderscrolls.com/codex/fiction_xarxes_book2.htm) was added to the Codex.

Mirrors:
FileFront (http://files.filefront.com/TES4+Oblivion+5Days/;4886244;;/fileinfo.html)
FileShack (http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=8522)

Zomg the arrow sploded!

Oblivion's "Savior-like" status among some gamers can be largely attributed to its advanced graphics, but you know what? You gotta give PR and Marketing credit for when it's due: Oblivion has been infiltrating the news space of various websites with semi-consistent screenshot updates, interviews, and all of a sudden busted the dam with an umpteen number of previews. They worked for it (but this 7 days crap is a little overkill~). - Liquid

[Deathbane27]

The graphics are merely icing on the cake for those who loved Morrowind, Liquid. ;) The combat enhancements and the 200 hours of new content are where the first $49 of my $60 are going. $1 to the graphics and $10 because I'm a Collecter's Edition whore.

[Reanimated]

Um, the "savior-like" status comes from it's developer's heritage. It has very little to do with graphics.

[ezra]

Sweet. Those minotaur look badass.

[Liquidize105]

From a marketing perspective,

Morrowind's good, but Oblivion's trotted cus of the graphics. Heritage isn't marketable, and this industry is all about "What have you done for me lately?"

Game doesn't sell itself unless you're Blizzard, and even they're slipping with people jumping ships.

Saw the video? You just gotta laugh at the lil goblin there with its pocket knife waving at you.

[Deadend]

Well, color me hyped... Even though I really want a tech demo first.. to see if I should just wait an extra week and buy a 360 for it, or go ahead on PC, as my PC isn't exactly cutting edge, or even middle of the blade anymore.

[Megalith]

http://elderscrolls.com/images/wallpaper/obliv_wallpaper4-800.jpg

Do I get to play as this guy.

[Intruder]

I wouldn't attribute the "Savior-like" status to the graphics. I would attribute that to Morrowind being such a great game and Daggerfall as well. I attribute it to Bethesda, who has yet to dissapoint me in their beloved Elder Scrolls world.

Yes the graphics are pretty, but that isn't the draw. The draw is knowing that Oblivion will own my life for a long time to come because it, if anything like Morrowind, will be addicting and so expansive that I won't have to put in any other game (beside GRAW) for a long while. This is the comfort that Bethesda gives me, I trust them.

[ezra]

Do I get to play as this guy.


Well, you can kill that guy and steal his mask and armour to wear. If that's what you mean.

[RainOfTerror]

Also mirrored on WorthPlaying of course :)

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=32707

[Intruder]

http://elderscrolls.com/images/wallpaper/obliv_wallpaper4-800.jpg

Do I get to play as this guy.

Don't think so. But you can fight them and wear their armor.

[thecrazyd]

Hey Rain, my WP download isn't working. Fix it, you big ol slacker you.

[El Ikkir]

"Tempt not a desperate man" :(


Hey, first post!
Just love the site, even with all the zealots that nest around here.

[Ph00p]

Wow, talk about a hyp-o-rama on Bethesda's part, judging by some first impressions some ppl will be midly disapointed.

[Deathbane27]

From a marketing perspective,

Morrowind's good, but Oblivion's trotted cus of the graphics. Heritage isn't marketable, and this industry is all about "What have you done for me lately?"

Maybe, but I don't think it has "savior-like status" for anyone who was only drawn in by the graphics.

Game doesn't sell itself unless you're Blizzard

I think not. ;)

[rainbowblack]

So what you're trying to say is I have five days to get the 1k kills in multiplayer and 500 headshots in multiplayer in GRAW? ai ai ai! I know im closing in on 1k kills, but lord knows how many of them were headshots. time to get to work

[thecrazyd]

So, does the combat still suck? Cause that is the main reason I didn't like Morrowind. From what I read, it is not absolutely abysmal like in Morrowind, but I need more then that. I want it to be fun.

[Reed]

Damn, too bad the combat still looks pretty lackluster. Better than Morrowind, but that ain't saying much.

[Heretic Machine]

Game doesn't sell itself unless you're Blizzard, and even they're slipping with people jumping ships.


Dunno where you get that... Square, Maxis, Bungie, they can sell games on their name alone. Bethesda got to that level with Morrowind as well. Hell, Sony sells consoles on it's name alone. If Nintendo pops out anything with the word "Zelda" in it's title, it turns into a hit.

Building a name is half the battle in this industry.

[Worldcrafter]

Yes the graphics are pretty, but that isn't the draw. The draw is knowing that Oblivion will own my life for a long time to come because it, if anything like Morrowing, will be addicting and so expansive that I won't have to put in any other game (beside GRAW) for a long while. This is the comfort that Bethesda gives me, I trust them.

I can't say the same for myself. Sure, graphics aren't everything, but they do add a lot to making the game world seem more realistic, and drawing you into the game. Simply put, I'm very excited about basically playing Morrowind with a bunch of changes for the better, and that includes graphics. As long as Oblivion retains the feel of Morrowind, I'm sold. Honestly, as long as I can still run around the country stealing everything that isn't bolted down, I'll be a happy man.

[Deathbane27]

So, does the combat still suck? Cause that is the main reason I didn't like Morrowind. From what I read, it is not absolutely abysmal like in Morrowind, but I need more then that. I want it to be fun.

Based on everything I've read and seen, it's going to be a lot more fun. Tactical use of blocking and recoil and fatigue, and using utility magic in battle's going to be a lot easier. But for your opponents, too. ;)

It's probably not going to be as good as Dynasty Warriors, or Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but it looks "good enough".

[GoblinToe]

You're dead wrong about Oblivion hype being attributed to graphics.

It's about good 'ol old school RPG goodness. RPG's of epic proportions and virtually unlimited gameplay in a massive open-ended world are unheard of these days.

Bethesda has acquired its reputation for building these exact type of RPG for, what, a decade or more? Add into the mix with Morrowind and Oblivion they are even giving us
the editor that they made the game with. Man, you cannot ask for more than that. When it comes to RPGs they are right up there with Blizzard in terms of quality, IMHO. Ok, so Daggerfall was a buggy mess, but if it hadn't had so many bugs, that game would be up there with Ultima 7 in terms of greatness. Still, even with the bugs in Daggerfall, the game is epic in scope, and I have to admire that.

I would sacrifice 50% of Oblivion's graphics for 50% more gameplay depths in a nanosecond! In fact, the graphics of Morrowind hampered the game for me, because unless you have a bleeding edge system, you'll suffer some performace lost, which ruins immersion. Hopefully, this won't be as bad with Oblivion.

WoW is a great example of graphics sacrifice, made up in quality artwork, in order to have the game run satisfactory on most systems. I honestly wish more devs would take this route, rather than making games most people won't fully enjoy for 6 months after release when they upgrade.

While nice, Oblivion is not about the graphics.

[thecrazyd]

Based on everything I've read and seen, it's going to be a lot more fun. Tactical use of blocking and recoil and fatigue, and using utility magic in battle's going to be a lot easier. But for your opponents, too. ;)

It's probably not going to be as good as Dynasty Warriors, or Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but it looks "good enough".
I don't like wasting money on "good enough". I am hesitant till I hear people who did not like Morrowind saying it is good.

[Deathbane27]

I don't like wasting money on "good enough".

Then I submit that you're interested in the game for the wrong reasons. :) The combat is as vital to a first-person RPG as the storyline is to a fighting game. It can still ruin the game for you, but good enough should be good enough.

I am hesitant till I hear people who did not like Morrowind saying it is good.

I, too, loathed Morrowind's combat system, but I'm a rabid Oblivion fanboy so you probably won't be interested in my opinion even after I played it...

Good luck finding someone who played Morrowind but hated it, but still buys Oblivion, and whose opinion you trust. :D

[EternalGamer]

I'm with you, thecrazyd. I just never played enough of to get use to the distant feel the combat always has in these types of PC RPGs. It feels alienating. I like both realtime games where I actually control the actions of the characters and turn based menu games. But this amalgamation of the two never sat right with me. It's the same problem I have with MMORPGS.

I'm sure for those that have played a lot, this playstyle fits like a favorite pair of jeans, but I never found a compelling enough reason to struggle through the initial alienation period when there were alreayd plenty of games of the previous two types that entertain me just fine.

Sure does look pretty, though.

Dan

[thecrazyd]

Then I submit that you're interested in the game for the wrong reasons. :) The combat is as vital to a first-person RPG as the storyline is to a fighting game. It can still ruin the game for you, but good enough should be good enough.
What is the reason to play a game where the majority of what you are doing is merely adequate? If I am spending most of my game time fighting trolls, then yes, I would expect fighting trolls to be fun.

[Rakael]

I'm with you, thecrazyd. I just never played enough of to get use to the distant feel the combat always has in these types of PC RPGs. I like realtime games where I actuall control the actions of the characters or turn based games. This amalgamation between the two never set right with me. It's the same problem I have with MMORPGS. I'm sure for those that have played a lot, this playstyle fits like a favorite pair of jeans, but I never found a compelling enough reason to struggle through the initial alienation period when there were alreayd plenty of games of the previous two types that entertain me just fine.

Sure does look pretty, though.

Dan

I can't really speak for MMO players, as I rarely make it past a month. I will say that if other CRPG players are anything like myself, we all hate the combat system in Morrowind. There was honestly nothing to like. However, in light of the game's good points, the horrible combat mattered little.

[Returner]

The graphics are merely icing on the cake for those who loved Morrowind, Liquid. ;) The combat enhancements and the 200 hours of new content are where the first $49 of my $60 are going. $1 to the graphics and $10 because I'm a Collecter's Edition whore.

I can't tell you how much I agree.

[Deathbane27]

What is the reason to play a game where the majority of what you are doing is merely adequate? If I am spending most of my game time fighting trolls, then yes, I would expect fighting trolls to be fun.

Like I said, wrong reasons. Time spent exploring, talking to people, etc. > time fighting.

At any rate, it's obvious I'm not going to convince you of anything. Again, good luck finding someone whose opinion you'll trust on this matter next week. Maybe find a store that will pop it into their 360 kiosk for you so you can try it yourself?

[thecrazyd]

Like I said, wrong reasons. Time spent exploring, talking to people, etc. > time fighting.

At any rate, it's obvious I'm not going to convince you of anything. Again, good luck finding someone whose opinion you'll trust on this matter next week. Maybe find a store that will pop it into their 360 kiosk for you so you can try it yourself?
If that is the case, why have combat? Make it a damned adventure game. Like I said, if a major part of the game that you spend a large amount of time doing is bunk, then the game is a waste. I am hoping it is good...

[Rakael]

It's a waste to you D, but not to the rest of us. I too hope the combat is much improved, but I don't have high hopes for that. I'll still buy and love the game though.

[thecrazyd]

How is a mediocre combat system not a waste?

[Rendelius]

If that is the case, why have combat? Make it a damned adventure game. Like I said, if a major part of the game that you spend a large amount of time doing is bunk, then the game is a waste. I am hoping it is good...

No no, wait, not everything in the world is black and white. TES games have always been a good mixture of several elements. Fighting is one of those, but not the most important. But of course if fighting is most important to you, you might not like these games at all. I, for example, can spend hours in a TES game without fighting much. In fact, I prefer easier fights over demanding ones, because I suck with reflexes *g*

[thecrazyd]

You can have easy fights with a good combat system.

[Rakael]

It's not a waste, because in my mind the rest of the game makes up for it. I will admit that a fully fleshed out, and fun combat system would rock however. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Intruder]

In Morrowind you could do the majority of the game without ever having to fight in combat if you wished it. Yes, it was insanely difficult but some people could finish the game killing very few people or things. That is another great thing about Elder Scrolls, they let you play how you want.

[Rirath]

thecrazyd, what the heck do you want people to tell you? Make up your own dang mind, but don't expect anyone else to jump on your bandwagon.

Myself, I think the combat looks great. I can't wait to master marksmanship, really get them stealth kills going.

[thecrazyd]

I was just arguing the following statement:

"It can still ruin the game for you, but good enough should be good enough."

I find that to be ridiculous.

[carneconcarne]

ridiculous, with an i

[thecrazyd]

Thank you.

[Kefkataran]

Aaaaaaaaaah fine, I give in! I'm preordering the PC version and the night after I finish my fucking play for Shakespeare (next Wednesday), I'm playing it all damned night.

[thecrazyd]

Tell me what you think about it Mr. Kataran. I think we share similar opinions about Morrowind.

[jacktion]

This game looks like Ass!
I know that is an unpopular comment but I stand by it. Ok, it technically "looks" good but the animation and AI and combat are as stiff as a Playstation 1! When you watch combat it is canned little loops that look about as natural as my wooden leg. Just like every other game I have been playing for the last 10 years. This is basically an Xbox game with hi-res texures. When you watch people talking to you in the dungeon at the start of the game, they walk up and stop dead like robots. Their mouths move as their eyes gaze at nothing like soulless automatons. I am very unimpressed. I expected more from the next gen and this game is very disappointing.

(can i get a witness?)

[Liquidize105]

Animations do have gaps, that's true. In light of the massive world though most people are gonna let it slip.

It's not unheard of per se, Morrowind was more or less outdone by Gothic in all the areas except marketing and localization, and Stalker has huge world map. People would deny it, but the fact that graphics is just about the only relevent selling point for the mass market. It's what you can see. There'd still be fanfare regardless of the graphics, but when we're talking "savior-like?" I don't think so.

Graphics are a standard of the next-gen. People are dazzled by pretty fireworks and the industry knows. Call it icing, but a lot of people wouldn't eat the cake without it. "Hey where's the sweet icing?"

[Heretic Machine]

But Liquid... Gothic didn't allow you to customize your character very much. In Morrowind, I play whoever I want, I do whatever I want. That's what makes it an RPG for me. That's why it's the best, and that's why I want to play Oblivion.

[thecrazyd]

Is character customization really that big a deal when you spend 95% of the game in first person / looking at your back?

[Heretic Machine]

Is character customization really that big a deal when you spend 95% of the game in first person / looking at your back?

Yes. Do you know how many games I pass up because they don't allow me to customize my character? That's right, all of them that fall into the RPG genre. I just don't buy them. Probably one of the reasons I didn't like Fable.

[thecrazyd]

Thats pretty weird. Any reasons why that is such a big deal to you? I enjoy character creators too, but mainly cause I just like making characters. Once I am past it, I really don't care.

[Heretic Machine]

Thats pretty weird. Any reasons why that is such a big deal to you? I enjoy character creators too, but mainly cause I just like making characters. Once I am past it, I really don't care.

Because I don't want to role-play as someone else's idea of a good character? Quite frankly, if it were actually used in other genres, I'd start picking those games that used it as the only games I bought. One of the key reasons I want to play Saint's Row is because you get to make your own character.

[King Drewsky]

For the combat naysayers, Havok physics engine. The same engine is used in Halo2. That means that weapons and objects will have the correct feel in regards to weight and momentum.

[Kefkataran]

Graphics are a standard of the next-gen. People are dazzled by pretty fireworks and the industry knows. Call it icing, but a lot of people wouldn't eat the cake without it. "Hey where's the sweet icing?"

Well, those people are douchebags. :p

Because I don't want to role-play as someone else's idea of a good character? Quite frankly, if it were actually used in other genres, I'd start picking those games that used it as the only games I bought. One of the key reasons I want to play Saint's Row is because you get to make your own character.

Do you mean physical appearance customization or customization of skills and such? Because I know Morrowind allows more of that than Gothic as well... (and it'd make more sense to me)

[Heretic Machine]

Well, those people are douchebags. :p



Do you mean physical appearance customization or customization of skills and such? Because I know Morrowind allows more of that than Gothic as well... (and it'd make more sense to me)

I mean being able to customize what my character looks like, what race he/she is, what gender he/she is, what kind of hair he/she has, what kind of clothes he/she wearrs... all of it.

[aversion2k]

For the combat naysayers, Havok physics engine. The same engine is used in Halo2. That means that weapons and objects will have the correct feel in regards to weight and momentum.

No it doesnt.
It means its capable of being correctly set up, but that doesnt mean it is, perhaps the programers didnt implement it well, perhaps the artists didnt set up the object's attributes correctly.

Deus Ex 2 used havok, compare that to half life 2 or max payne 2.

I've pre ordered oblivion, I'm hyped about playing it, but to be honest I think the combat looks a bit shitty. But I'm not getting it for the combat.

[Liquidize105]

But Liquid... Gothic didn't allow you to customize your character very much. In Morrowind, I play whoever I want, I do whatever I want. That's what makes it an RPG for me. That's why it's the best, and that's why I want to play Oblivion.
Uh huh yeah, I read about this: The alternate lives people live in MMO games are a result of their desire for an absolute leveled playing field and the freedom to choose to become whoever they want to be, as opposed to an often harsher real life.

A static character gives more application to the game story though. Planescape is a good example of this. Maybe not the appearance, but Gothic does give you the choice to become 1 of 3 professions via properly-intergraded storyline.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

When it comes to RPGs they are right up there with Blizzard in terms of quality, IMHO.


Yikes, being "right up there with Blizzard in terms of quality" when it comes to RPGs is a MAJOR insult. Has Blizzard ever made a real roleplaying game? Um...no.

I don't like wasting money on "good enough". I am hesitant till I hear people who did not like Morrowind saying it is good.

Me too D. I found so much to like in Morrowind, but so much more that I disliked. I ended up really disappointed overall. I really want to be excited about Oblivion, but I'll have to give it a thorough playtest before I actually spend any money on it. Morrowind's bugs and design flaws better have been addressed. Sadly I doubt that the reviews will cover much of this.

Gothic 2 got pretty much everything right that Morrowind got wrong, but it wasn't as expansive. Here's hoping that Oblivion takes the best parts of Gothic 2 (few bugs, vibrant world, much more "realistic" NPCs, better combat - sorta) and combines them with the best parts of Morrowind (huge world, character customization, expandability) to make the RPG I've been wanting to play.

Deus Ex 2 used havok, compare that to half life 2 or max payne 2.

Max Payne 2 is proof to me that the Havok Engine means bupkiss. I don't see why people were so excited about the physics in that game. Objects were either immovable or had no weight, so that they flew around like feathers. Touch a box and it went skittering across the floor.

[ezzkmo]

You just gotta laugh at the lil goblin there with its pocket knife waving at you.
Haha, Golem got pwned!

[Nath5000]

I am one of those people who was a morrowind fan, so count me as one of the people who is already impressed just because it obviously improves upon morrowind.

[Deathbane27]

I was just arguing the following statement:

"It can still ruin the game for you, but good enough should be good enough."

I find that to be ridiculous.

You're right, that is ridiculous. Good enough ISN'T good enough, despite the fact that it is. GREAT is good enough, and anything less than great, SUCKS! I ONLY PLAY GAMES THAT GET AN 11 OUT OF 10!

...right. ;)

[Wasson_]

The combat in Marrowind was wonkey but I never had a problem with it. As long as the combat is improved but not perfect, that is 100% acceptable. It's folly to expect perfect, people who do are just...stupid.

The main reason people liked marrowind and are looking forward to this next game is the immense potential for exploration, experimentation and discovery. Either way, the most appealing things (other than the three i listed) to me are those that they made to make the gameplay more streamlined and improve the interface. But a combat system that incorperates more input from the player sounds waaay funner than the seemingly "roll" based combat we saw in Morrowind.

[kathode]

Oblivion's "Savior-like" status among some gamers can be largely attributed to its advanced graphics, but you know what? You gotta give PR and Marketing credit for when it's due: Oblivion has been infiltrating the news space of various websites with semi-consistent screenshot updates, interviews, and all of a sudden busted the dam with an umpteen number of previews. They worked for it (but this 7 days crap is a little overkill~). - Liquid

When did Liquid go and get all bitter and pouty? :)

[Deathbane27]

How is a mediocre combat system not a waste?

Ah, there's the problem.

Who said anything about mediocre? Just you. Mediocre is not good enough.

I'm thinking that you're thinking when I say "good enough", I mean something like a 5/10, which is NOT good enough. I'm thinking like a 7/10. That's the best you'll get out of a first-person game that isn't based around guns. That's GOOD, but not GREAT, but it's good ENOUGH because the rest of the game supports it.

I probably paint like Picasso, no wonder no one gets the picture. :p

[Magnanimous Gnome]

...


Oh. My. God.


*head explodes*

[Heretic Machine]

A static character gives more application to the game story though. Planescape is a good example of this. Maybe not the appearance, but Gothic does give you the choice to become 1 of 3 professions via properly-intergraded storyline.

But I don't care about the story. When it comes to gaming, the story is one of the least important parts for me, when thrown in some broad categories.

1. Gameplay (this includes character customization)
2. Setting
3. Graphics
4. Story

It's right there at the bottom. I can get a GREAT story from a book, and they don't cost $50, AND they are a better platform for telling a story. Games are meant to be played, not read or listened to. At least, that's my opinion.

[ezra]

I'm tired of all this nonsense being spewed about the videos, so here goes.


That which makes TES games great cannot be demonstrated fully in a 30 second video.

You can go back to bitching about stupid things, now.

/oblivion is not a one trick pony. Get over it.

[Kefkataran]

Yikes, being "right up there with Blizzard in terms of quality" when it comes to RPGs is a MAJOR insult. Has Blizzard ever made a real roleplaying game? Um...no.

I think you misunderstood him. Pretty sure what he meant was they make as good of RPGs as Blizzard does of other game types.

[Smoof]

But I don't care about the story. When it comes to gaming, the story is one of the least important parts for me, when thrown in some broad categories.

1. Gameplay (this includes character customization)
2. Setting
3. Graphics
4. Story

It's right there at the bottom. I can get a GREAT story from a book, and they don't cost $50, AND they are a better platform for telling a story. Games are meant to be played, not read or listened to. At least, that's my opinion.

I think a lot of the ideal and fun of making your own character, even if you don't see them most of the time, is that they're an extension of yourself. It's more exciting and fun when you can get attached to your character and feel like the decisions you make (or they make, whichever way you play) really effect them.
I enjoyed Gothic II immensely, same with Vampire: Bloodlines, but both bugged me because I couldn't make my own character. It's certainly more enjoyable when you really get to be attached to your character and really play as them, rather than just some random person in a game you picked-up.

[Kefkataran]

So, I gave in and pre-ordered. It's done. And thanks to Amazon, I also got free two-day shipping, which is nice since that means it'll arrive JUST in time for me to be done with my play for Shakespeare. Thank God.

[Deathbane27]

Okay, I woke up in the middle of the night to piss, and it dawned on me.

Since I'm a certified fanboy, any time I admit something isn't the best thing since sliced bread, it's automatically mediocre or worse.

Solution: Never be honest with thecrazyd.

[Sl1pstream]

I am hesitant till I hear people who did not like Morrowind saying it is good.

I didn't like Morrowind and I'm still not sure if I'll like Oblivion except for the shiny graphics. I'll post my opinion once I get the game.

[bapenguin]

I for one welcome our new Oblivion overlords. 7 days of 7 videos is fine with me.

I could have played it last night, it was calling me. The chair was open. I didn't want to tease myself though, there was naught enough time, and I would have been wrestled out of the event by the big german security guard. :(

[Heretic Machine]

I didn't like Morrowind and I'm still not sure if I'll like Oblivion except for the shiny graphics. I'll post my opinion once I get the game.

If you didn't like Morrowind, you -won't- like Oblivion. That's pretty much a sure thing. If I were talking to someone who didn't like Morrowind, I would NEVER recommend that they buy Oblivion.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I think you misunderstood him. Pretty sure what he meant was they make as good of RPGs as Blizzard does of other game types.


Are you sure? I'm pretty sure he was equating Bethesda's RPG making skills with Blizzard's RPG making skills. If he meant what you think he meant, he sure wasn't very clear about it. Oh well, it's not a big deal.

[Kefkataran]

If you didn't like Morrowind, you -won't- like Oblivion. That's pretty much a sure thing. If I were talking to someone who didn't like Morrowind, I would NEVER recommend that they buy Oblivion.

Well, that depends on how much they didn't like Morrowind. I didn't like Morrowind too much, but I COULD HAVE a lot more if it would have done a few things better. Those few things (better quest system, more focused main quest, cooler dungeons, etc.) all seem to be things Oblivion is fixing from all the early reviews, previews, and interviews, so I'm willing to give it a shot and I'm very excited.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure he was equating Bethesda's RPG making skills with Blizzard's RPG making skills. If he meant what you think he meant, he sure wasn't very clear about it. Oh well, it's not a big deal.

I can't imagine why he'd say that, though. Blizzard's never made a straight RPG, unless you count WoW, which is so different from the style of RPG that we're talking about that I wouldn't think it worth mentioning.

[GoblinToe]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure he was equating Bethesda's RPG making skills with Blizzard's RPG making skills. If he meant what you think he meant, he sure wasn't very clear about it. Oh well, it's not a big deal.


Sorry, I could have been more clear. In fact, I was comparing Bethesda's RPG making quality to that of Blizzard's in the various games they make.

When you buy a Blizzard title you know for 100% that you aren't going to be wanking around with copy protection issues, or show-stoping bugs for the first 4 hours after you install the game. There aren't going to be CTD's every hour. The game won't be unfinished and rushed to an ending after you're 80% through with the plot.

That's why I had to point out the fact that Daggerfall was such a mess. Daggerfall was made by people who loved making that game. They poured heart and soul into it, and truly wanted it to be the greatest RPG ever. When you walk away from Daggerfall because the bugs won't let you finish the game, sure you are pissed beyond all comprehension, but as time goes on, you realize that at least Bethesda tried to make something great. I don't think any game has matched the size of the game world in Daggerfall to date, and personally, I enjoyed the random dungeons. Well, I would have if they weren't buggy.

Daggerfall, minus those show-stopping bugs, could have been up there with the Big Dogs we talk about with such fondness--Ultima, Wizardry, Baldur's Gate, Planescape, SS2, Final Fantasy, Fallout, etc. I threw Daggerfall in the trash after I fell through the world for the 'nth time, but years later I compare the scope they tried to achieve with the crap on the shelves today, and have to admire the world they tried to create, bugs and all.

Anyhow, back to graphics. Sure they matter. I can't bring myself to play that Helherron game because of the graphics. Ironically, I play roguelikes endlessly, but dream about a roguelike in a Morrowind engine, too. But think of all the games that are 80% graphics and 20% game. Black & White series, Doom 3, Fable, the endless stream of shitty FPS games! Total waste of my time. The reason people are so juiced for Oblivion is because they know Bethesda puts the game first, and recently has started to attach one hell of a graphics engine to that game. But the GAME is first. The skill development, the always gigantic world to explore, the endless quests, the horses and ships to stuff your piles of shimmering treasure in. The beautiful graphics of Oblivion are an extra treat, and lend a major bonus to immersion, but I could do with older graphics like Gothic 1, and even more depth to Oblivion's gameplay in a heartbeat. I finished Baldur's Gate 2 about once every year and a half for this very reason.

Sure, everyone is different, but I think most people are hyped about Oblivion for the freedom the game will allow them through mods, character creation, and the adventure of exploration more than the fancy "Oooooo, Ahhhh" of the graphics which wear off in days, where deep gameplay can last you years.

I believe Bethesda has always put the game first in their core philosophy of game design, and while they may have had a not-so-perfect past in terms of stability, I now consider them up their with the Big Dogs of RPG developers. When you look at the sheer volume of bug-ridden crap on the retail shelves today, you realize how lucky we are to still have them around making RPGs.

[Kefkataran]

Fuck. I want Oblivion now. And to be done with my play. Fuck. My concentration on school is shot.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Sorry, I could have been more clear. In fact, I was comparing Bethesda's RPG making quality to that of Blizzard's in the various games they make.

When you buy a Blizzard title you know for 100% that you aren't going to be wanking around with copy protection issues, or show-stoping bugs for the first 4 hours after you install the game. There aren't going to be CTD's every hour. The game won't be unfinished and rushed to an ending after you're 80% through with the plot.


Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I do want to point out that Morrowind DID suffer from copy-protection issues. It had Safe Disc on it which slowed the game down a lot for many. Luckily this was removed in a patch.

It also had some show stopping bugs at release and STILL crashes to the desktop to this day. :( I'm really hoping Oblivion doesn't have these issues.

Still, I'm glad you're so excited about the game. I'm excited too, but I'm also somewhat nervous about how the game will turn out.