When Geek Meets Stupid -- D&D on the MS Surface

[Evil Avatar]

When Geek Meets Stupid... Geeks playing D&D on the Microsoft Surface (http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/10/hands-on-dd-on-the-microsoft-surface/).

http://evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/DDsurface7-620x413.jpg

Actually, this is the only cool application I have ever seen for the MS Surface. The ability to 'flip' photos and documents around with your fingers is a waste of time and energy -- it doesn't do anything better than what you can do with a mouse. This is another example (like the Natal) of an idea in search of a product.

[Demo_Boy]

Euro board games would work supremely well on this device. They have so much book keeping and complexities it can make them unfun. For example Agricola is a highly regarded game with pesky maintencance and an accountant's scoring system.

Another good one would be PowerGrid.

If anyone from MS or Mayfair/Rio Grande/Zman/et al games wants a development team for this kind of work send me a pm.

[Syl]

Wait, what about this is supposed to be "stupid"?

I would absolutely love something like this for my D&D games. Except that we would be using real dice and such.

[pwnophobia]

Wait, what about this is supposed to be "stupid"?

I would absolutely love something like this for my D&D games. Except that we would be using real dice and such.

Yes, exactly. I would love to setup battle scenarios on one of these only using real DICE. I think with the correct implementation D&D on a Surface could be excellent.

[prence]

I've never played D&D but I would like to play a nice quiet game of LIFE on the MS Surface.

[Syl]

I think you could easily get the pattern recognition to know how most dice work, and then recognize whatever number is at the bottom of the die to identify the number on top. (Typically, the numbers opposite add up to 1 higher than the D##)
D4's would be kind of a bitch.

[Evil Avatar]

Wait, what about this is supposed to be "stupid"?

I would absolutely love something like this for my D&D games. Except that we would be using real dice and such.

The surface itself is a stupid idea because it doesn't improve upon existing technology in any meaningful way. Adding a 'touch screen' to something without any idea what anyone would do with it is a stupid concept. (Thus, the comparison to Natal.)

It is further silly that the only meaningful application anyone can come up with is a board game. :rolleyes:

[jameskond]

I want to play Catan on this :P

[mos]

Actually, the Surface has a great application in restaurants.

[mos]

Oh, and I'd love to play D&D on one, too.

[murpes]

But why have miniatures at all? Couldn't you just graphically represent those as well? Of course, at that point you have a video game ... Neverwinter Nights, I guess. Or should you go in the other direction, set up little dominoes for walls or whatever, in which case you don't need the surface at all. It's really cool, neat tech demo, but it's a weird mixture of things that don't seem to go well together.

[Booda]

If they came up with some kind of WH40K board I might actually take the time to learn how to play.

[wasd]

The ability to quickly create detailed environments without having to lug around your dwarven forge tiles is appealing to many a D&D lover. To have a graphical highlight of the area effect of spells, cones are a bitch, is again something to be enjoyed.

There are many things that can be simplified by the use of such a thing without losing the true sense of D&D as in Neverwinter Nights.

[Tintivilo]

`When Geek Meets Stupid` ?

[Silverbaine]

I'd like it for some sort of coffee table advancement. maybe find a way to hook it up to your Tv so you can use that as a guide, or somehow make a remote to end all remotes for your tv.

[Phades]

'When Geek Meets Stupid: The story of Evil Avatar's tastes.' ;)

[JazGalaxy]

Every new gaming technology should be a solution in search of a problem. that's how you create new stuff.

The problem wtih gaming for the past ten years has been that they keep doing the whole thing backwards and creating new, old technology in order to keep cranking out the same new old games.

In this videogames climate, the only way we're ever going to see enw games is if we make it so old games CAN'T be remade.

I'm all for technology like this.

[blackzc]

MY Gf and me were talking about how all the arcades that open up in town always end up shutting down and that it sucks. This could be something that could start a new type of arcade that could make money and stay open. Nerds from all over then land would come to play their d and d campaigns on this. I would be all over this myself. Pretty badass.

[eighties]

oh man! i would love to play d&d on that!

like people said above replace the dice with real dice and mhm

[wasd]

MY Gf and me were talking about how all the arcades that open up in town always end up shutting down and that it sucks. This could be something that could start a new type of arcade that could make money and stay open. Nerds from all over then land would come to play their d and d campaigns on this. I would be all over this myself. Pretty badass.

I actually like the idea. Some of my best campaign ideas have been stolen from someone else's campaign.

[Your Good Twin]

I think it's cool that this came out of basically a whim of Gabe from Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/10/21/).

[randir14]

Looks exactly like the wheel system from Temple of Elemental Evil

[Slacker]

The surface itself is a stupid idea because it doesn't improve upon existing technology in any meaningful way. Adding a 'touch screen' to something without any idea what anyone would do with it is a stupid concept. (Thus, the comparison to Natal.)

Says the person that hasn't ever played with either of them. You're completely oblivious to the other Surface features that make it much more than a "touch screen." Ironically the video you linked you uses it's object recognition tech and you still didn't catch on to it.

Things like the reactable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc) can easily be done with a Surface table and can't with a standard touch interface.

Do your research before you bash something.

[Grumsh]

Says the person that hasn't ever played with either of them. You're completely oblivious to the other Surface features that make it much more than a "touch screen." Ironically the video you linked you uses it's object recognition tech and you still didn't catch on to it.

Things like the reactable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc) can easily be done with a Surface table and can't with a standard touch interface.

Do your research before you bash something.

EA is obviously not someone who has or probably ever has played a Pen and Paper RPG, so he probably wouldn't have any idea how useful the tech could/would be. The following bolded part of his quote makes me think this;

The surface itself is a stupid idea because it doesn't improve upon existing technology in any meaningful way. Adding a 'touch screen' to something without any idea what anyone would do with it is a stupid concept. (Thus, the comparison to Natal.)

It is further silly that the only meaningful application anyone can come up with is a board game. :rolleyes:


Me I would have a hella lotta fun playing a PNP RPG on the surface table assuming it doesn't cost $5+k.

[Evil Avatar]

EA is obviously not someone who has or probably ever has played a Pen and Paper RPG, so he probably wouldn't have any idea how useful the tech could/would be.

How can you be so far off the mark and so totally clueless at the same time? Obviously, you never bothered to read my original post where I said that this WAS a good use for the Microsoft Surface. It is the Surface itself that I think was a stupid idea since there was no use for it when it was invented.

The fact that someone adapted this basically useless technology to tabletop gaming is both silly and amazing.

Me never played a pen-and-paper RPG? LOL. I was playing pen-and-paper RPG's when you were still in diapers.

I guess you haven't seen the stack of 60+ AD&D books sitting in my office.

[Johan]

How can you be so far off the mark and so totally clueless at the same time?

Well...don't those two attributes often travel together/work in tandem? ;)

[dub3000]

I'd like it for some sort of coffee table advancement. maybe find a way to hook it up to your Tv so you can use that as a guide, or somehow make a remote to end all remotes for your tv.

i'd love the covers from my mp3 collection up on it. would be the best home theatre control ever.

[Evil Avatar]

Well...don't those two attributes often travel together/work in tandem? ;)

It has been a long day and I'm stuffed to the brim with painkillers. You don't get two decent insults in one post. That is more of an early morning thing. :p

[Kryalis]

The largest problem with MS Surface is they're upwards of $10k a table. I think as an evolutionary technology it's excellent, but a little ahead of it's time.

Give it 5-10 years when the various displays are a few mm thin, can be rolled up and have a decent touch screen as standard and this kind of app will be second nature.

As the iPhone (and soon the iPad) show there's some types of games that are great on large(ish) touch screens, and some that are terrible. Most RTS / 4X games would be awesome, fps... not so much.

[Slacker]

It is the Surface itself that I think was a stupid idea since there was no use for it when it was invented.

Actually there was. It's currently in use in a number of places. However they're commercial applications. It's not a device marketed to end users. Most end users don't need a device that can handle simultaneous input from 5-10 people as well as doing object recognition. Users are fine with a haptic touch device that can only support 2 simultaneous inputs and can't recognize anything that's not conductive.

This reminds me of the when the LHC came online. Idiots were actually afraid of it causing a black hole and were utterly convinced that it was going to kill us all. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it stupid. It just makes you ignorant.

Do your research before you bash.

[Cha-Ka]

If (and that's a sizable if) this ever catches on...I could see parker brothers, hasbro and (pleasepleaseplease) Eurogames using this to find new audiences for board games. Selling board games as software that's packaged with a small bag of playing pieces could actually be really neat...especially when the playing board could assist with rules, charts and score-keeping.

A man can dream...
http://elitish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/farnsworth-finglonger1-300x224.jpg

[Grumsh]

How can you be so far off the mark and so totally clueless at the same time? Obviously, you never bothered to read my original post where I said that this WAS a good use for the Microsoft Surface. It is the Surface itself that I think was a stupid idea since there was no use for it when it was invented.

The fact that someone adapted this basically useless technology to tabletop gaming is both silly and amazing.

Me never played a pen-and-paper RPG? LOL. I was playing pen-and-paper RPG's when you were still in diapers.

I guess you haven't seen the stack of 60+ AD&D books sitting in my office.

Ok, while I yield that I might have disreguarded your original comment, when I replied to Slacker. The fact you called D&D a boardgame, and also realizing this has been talked about almost 2 months ago (http://blogs.msdn.com/surface/archive/2009/12/16/new-gameplay-video-with-d-d-on-surface.aspx) ( I had a post submitted back then but it never got uploaded) made me assume RPG's were not exciting to the average EA reader/webmaster :) .

Finally, I was playing RPG's when you were a gleam in your daddy's eye ;) I'll post my pristine 1st edition origional print basic D&D manual to prove it!

[Ruff_Daimont]

I would like to try this for my group... but the problem is that we use a lot of home-brew rules in the game (we didn't like many restrictions of 4.0 but we liked a lot of the balancing)... I wonder if the program used for this is adaptable enough to use homebrew rules....

[Syl]

I would like to try this for my group... but the problem is that we use a lot of home-brew rules in the game (we didn't like many restrictions of 4.0 but we liked a lot of the balancing)... I wonder if the program used for this is adaptable enough to use homebrew rules....

I'd pretty much use it almost purely to track HP and for the map, maybe even ranges (moving and weapon/spell AOE) everything else i'd probably keep on paper or in the collective minds of the players.

[A Lusty Alien]

Me never played a pen-and-paper RPG? LOL. I was playing pen-and-paper RPG's when you were still in diapers.

I guess you haven't seen the stack of 60+ AD&D books sitting in my office.

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the idea that EA hasn't played P&P D&D. God, how long ago was it when you were DMing at the Glendale bookstore afterhours, 1984 or so? I know it was shortly after I moved into my house.

Oh man, those were the days my friend!!! :cool:

[A Lusty Alien]

I'll post my pristine 1st edition origional print basic D&D manual to prove it!

Now then, is that the boxed set of three booklets or the newer blue or red cover single manual? Cause I'll raise your blue cover manual with a complete pristine set of the booklets with all the additional supplemental booklets. (Though I confess I lost the top cover of the boxed set.)

[Evil Avatar]

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the idea that EA hasn't played P&P D&D. God, how long ago was it when you were DMing at the Glendale bookstore afterhours, 1984 or so? I know it was shortly after I moved into my house.

Oh man, those were the days my friend!!! :cool:

Those were great days. Hard to imagine that my Son is old enough to be interested in the D&D Mini's game. He loves all the little figures. I'm planning to teach him to play.

[Grumsh]

Those were great days. Hard to imagine that my Son is old enough to be interested in the D&D Mini's game. He loves all the little figures. I'm planning to teach him to play.

Not shilling (I swear, I don't work in the industry) I got my son started with Heroscape (http://boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch.php?action=search&objecttype=boardgame&q=heroscape), and at the age of 4 he is loving it. We have Heroscape Mondays (and Wednesdays and Fridays when he can con dad into it...). Granted it couldn't even be called D&D lite, it's fun and the Underdark set (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/54361/heroscape-master-set-battle-for-the-underdark) can graduate you into D&D.

A Lusty Alien I am pretty sure its the 3 books, red in color that was followed by the Blue expert set that has the Dragon VS barbarian on the cover. It has been ages though I would have to hit the crawl space to verify.
Now you all have me sad realizing I no got a PNP gaming group anymore.