Starforce Copy-Protection Company links to Piracy

[EvilBob46]

A developer of the critically-acclaimed strategy game Galactic Civilizations II (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/925349.asp) has posted a message (http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx?forumid=161&aid=106741&c=1) discussing how an employee of the company behind the StarForce copy-protection had the nerve to link to (http://www.galciv2.com/temp/starfo2.jpg) a site distributing torrents of the pirated version of the game on the StarForce message boards. This was supposed to prove that "several thousands of people are downloading the pirated version" after the developers decided to not use the StarForce copy protection or similar methods. The developer of the game, Stardock, believes the primary weapon in fighting piracy is "rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates" if they have a legit serial number.

This is not the first time StarForce has received criticism. For more info on that, check the StarForce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starforce) article on Wikipedia.

Thanks to Draft for a similiar submission.

[Draft]

my message contained a lot more vitriol for Starforce and praise for Stardock :)

[Jetherik]

I agree with Stardock - if you treat a customer right, provide free updates, etc., then people will buy your product and be much more happier that it is not copy protected. GalCiv was great, because you constantly received free updates for a full year - when you bought it properly. These were not patches, these usually added something good to the game.

[laggerific]

I was considering purchasing this game since I've recently become hooked on strategy games...this makes it all the moe enticing...I really need to reward the comanies that are going to treat their customers in a mature fashion. Bravo...now I need to find a singularity(is that right, I can't remember the name of that Sleator book) room to slow down time so I can play tons of games.

[Spigot]

I just picked up my copy of GalCiv 2 yesterday. I'm learning the ins and outs of it, but it's great to have a new 4X game to play.

I also like Stardock's methodology. I was pretty surprised to find all the goodies available on the site once I registered.

[Klade]

This is hilarious. I mean what a way to emphasize how crapy a company is then to show how they try to get other people to pirate your game when you don't do business with them.

I've been saying for a while that updates and patches to those who bought the game legally are the way to go, good to see that I'm not the only one thinking that way.

[rubbishfoo]

Of course the other option is to bring back the SSI paper glyph wheel...

[Dabombpizza]

I like Stardock's methodology. I'm definetly going to by Gal Civ as soon as I get $50 extra. I think insane copy protection that renders a game unable to play on a computer is one of the many contibuters towards PC gaming downfall.

[GrinR]

Starforce helps to make sure prices for games either stay low or go down! That's what anti-piracy measures do, is make sure the Publishers can lower their prices out of the goodness of their hearts so we gamers can benefit.

GO STARFORCE!!!
BOOO PIRATES!!!!

Oh, btw, Starforce has been beaten for past a year now. The pirates are still laughing.

[camberiu]

It says much about the ethics of that company. I hope Ubisoft and other large publisher will realise soon that they should try to distance themselves from that "malware" company called Straforce.

[ÜberJumper]

I'm going to buy a copy of GalCiv II just because it doesn't have starforce.

That and I want to design starships.

[Wombat]

Galciv not only doesn't have Starforce, it has nothing. You can play it without a disk in the drive. It's one of the things I love (and hate) it makes it a terrible temptation to just start up the game and play a few turns when I should be doing something else.

[Spigot]

I don't need my disc in the drive?! Awesome.

I just wasted (invested?) about 20 minutes in the spaceship design part of the game. Evil, evil spaceship designer... And I only have the small ship parts so far. I fear for my sanity when I hit the capital ship designs.

[Dag-Sabot]

i refuse to buy any starforce branded product. No one should, till i get my hard drivewrking again!

[Savok]

This is extortion.

I was gonna buy GalCiv2 at some point anyway, this just speeds up the process.

[Acleacius]

Yeah, cant wait to see all the stupid plants come here and try to justify this and how Starforce is the secret to creation of life in the universe.
Starforce is proabaly working on some perfunctory statment for Monday and more importantly the little talking points for their paid coterie of mutant hacks.

Not only are Starforce liars about how their product works and can cause serious damage to PCs but they are shameless hypocrtics, whom certianly do not deserve Publishers or Gamres trust.

Haha, you know what would be funny if this employee is used as a scapegoat then turns around and writes a tell-all essay book. :cool:

[92miata]

well. i know that i will never download another demo or buy another game with starforce on it. thanks so much for this crap everybody that is involved. and i suggest that everybody that reads this do the same.

cheers and beers.....:)

[92miata]

it is actually pretty crappy now that when a demo is released, i have to do research to make sure this shit isn't included. sony's rootkit is not even as bad as starforce. does anybody want to sue?????

[flinxz]

I just bought this game as well on the basis of no starforce. Looks like it is a good times game as well.

Oh this site will show you how to check for starforce, you might be suprised that you do have it (damn demos).

http://www.glop.org/starforce/#games

[Wyrm]

Starforce helps to make sure prices for games either stay low or go down! That's what anti-piracy measures do, is make sure the Publishers can lower their prices out of the goodness of their hearts so we gamers can benefit.

GO STARFORCE!!!
BOOO PIRATES!!!!

Oh, btw, Starforce has been beaten for past a year now. The pirates are still laughing.


I'll pay an extra 10 dollars for a game that doesnt have Starfuck on it.

[Vandenh]

I have personally convinced 5 people to buy GC2. Why? Excellent game AND the guys really deserve support for having the balls to distibute this unprotected.

[DigiWiz]

The wikipedia article is fun. One shill from StarForce is constantly trying to rewrite it, reinserting claims about it being uncrackable, etc.

[GrinR]

I'll pay an extra 10 dollars for a game that doesnt have Starfuck on it.

Here's a better idea - don't pay anything. It's much cheaper.

[Mason]

Stardock treats its customers right, there have already been a few updates. Name another company that works this hard to fix exploits in a single-player game.

I wish they'd diversify the early game a little bit, though. There basically seems like a right way to do it, nothing else I've tried comes even close.

[bKangy]

I think I might go and buy this just to say "fuck you" to Starforce. There's a reason that the last PC games I purchased were Darwinia and Civ IV, and that's because they didn't fuck me up the ass.

I particuarly enjoyed the closing notes of the article. Shows that torrent sites aren't actually the demonic communist spawn of the 21st century after all!

[Lunar Blue]

I downloaded the game i admit, and was surprised how it had NO copy protection at all. Now thanks to Protection Security's (is it just me or is that the shittiest name ever?) idiocy Stardock just earned their money. Another "fuck you" directed to StarFuckers from here as well!

[Carnifex]

The wikipedia article is fun. One shill from StarForce is constantly trying to rewrite it, reinserting claims about it being uncrackable, etc.
If that's the sales pitch they also give to their clients, it would be fun if someone filed a lawsuit when it's cracked (should take, say, a few days before a new game is released) :D

What amazes me still is how the industry never learns. No copy protection is 100% secure as long as it needs to be decoded on the client side. Kinda hard to avoid that. Online verification and content works better, but that too isn't foolproof. Just give consumers convenience and value for their money, and they'll buy your games.

[Demize99]

Wikipedia Discussion in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:StarForce

It IS pretty amusing.

I own starforce games, I'm afraid it won't stop me from purchasing good games, and it hasn't stopped me from pirating Starforce games. (Try before you buy these days often comes down to Warez due to lack of demos.) It is really annoying how much it locks the computer when checking the disc, WinAmp stops responding, the whole system pauses and sometimes it just decides that its not the right disc.

On the whole, I think copy protection software is a pile of trash. First thing I do when I get a new game is breakin the damn protection so I can play.

[Ravenlock]

I'm still not a tenth of the way into Civ IV, which I bought on release week and just haven't had time to play. I feel bad about that, because it's a great game. (BTW, one of the first things I did was go acquire a NOCD, because it's just plain more convenient to not swap discs. I do that whenever I can without negatively impacting the game.)

But even with Civ IV removing the need for a new 4X game, I really want to pick this up just to support Stardock. GalCiv I was an imperfect game, but they put their hearts and souls into making it as good as they could, after release as well as before. GalCiv II looks to be about 20 times better than the first game and not troubling their users with Starforce or other DRM software is just plain brilliant.

And you know what? Since you still need a serial # to get and apply patches and updates, I bet that's gonna get them some sales even from some people who pirate the game and end up liking it. So not only do they choose not to hurt their legitimate customers, they may get a few dollars from pirates who like their work that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

This is the right way to do it, and I want to help prove it by buying the game even if I don't play it right away. Need to go take a look at the size of my wallet, after my next paycheck. :D

[Sensei-X]

The only thing more pathetic than StarFarce is how many idiots work at these publishing companies, because you'd have to be pretty stupid to pay these lamers to use their crap copy-protection. I know some loser from the company may bring up some stats about how they keep games from being boot-legged but it's a joke, the pirates aren't the ones complaining, they're happily playing their protection free hacked versions while the guy who coughed up $50 can't play the game he paid for.

[DangerousDaze]

A developer of the critically-acclaimed strategy game Galactic Civilizations II (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/925349.asp) has posted a message (http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx?forumid=161&aid=106741&c=1)
Just FYI. Frogboy, the guy who posted the message is Stardock's CEO, Brad Wardell. I've been a customer of Stardock for many years now and even though I don't own GalCiv (it's just not my bag) they're a good company to do business with.

Now, I'd better post something else quickly or people will think I'm just some shill account. ;)

DD

[MojoJojo]

It all seems to come down to biting the hand that feeds you.

The disturbing angle of all of it is that the DRM squad, for lack of a better term, is fundamentalist and further spurred on by their own truthiness.

[easi]

Starforce has not been 'beaten'. It won't be beaten until you can leech a game using it off usenet and play it without getting your lab coat on and fucking about with a million different programs while performing a rain dance.

Thankfully they seem to be doing a good job of self-destructing.

[Borys]

I'm all for anti-piracy and the eradication of warez/ torrent sites.

I never had a single problem with SF protected games.

But this is really, and I mean - REALLY fucked up.

[Oddmaker]

Well publishers wont stop buying StarForce because its working! EA are in talks with them :)

[easi]

Borys, I wonder how you would feel about the 'eradication of piracy' if companies stopped releasing demos altogether? Or your PC became part of a zombie net controlled by some 13-year-old punk who got in by using SF as a back door?

The saying about freedom fighters and terrists springs to mind.

[Skookum]

Everybody looking at this thread should check out their system for Starforce drivers. I just found five (5!) different versions of it on my machine. I have no idea how it happened, must be a combination of game demos with GTR and Splinter Cell. After removing them my machine no longer has a 2 second delay when closing a window.

I have no beef against a company that wants to protect their IP, but that's just annoying as hell.

[Kelegacy]

Jesus, I need to get this game I guess. I skipped Civ4 because I fear the repercussions it will have on my life, just as Oblivion will, but GC2 sounds like so much goddamn fun.

Kudos to them for going the more customer-friendly route and treating us with respect, unlike those bastards at Ubisoft who seem to be in cahoots with StarForce now.

[UnderHero5]

Well, even though I already had Starforce protected games installed... this bullshit was the last straw. It sucks to punish developers (and myself?) for their publishers mistakes of putting StarForce on their games... but I uninstalled X3 and TrackMania Sunrise and removed StarForce from my system.

I love TrackMania, and StarForce has never given me any problems... but it's a moral thing I guess (plus I haven't played either in a while and they were wasting space sitting on my HDD, heh).

At any rate. I will no longer buy StarForce "protected" games. They've crossed the line I've layed down, this time.

I don't even like 4X games, but I'm almost considering buying GalCiv2 just to support StarDock because they are in favor of the customer and don't have their heads up their asses. That's refreshing to see.

[GoblinToe]

Never bought a game with Starforce protection. I've been in full boycott mode since the day I found out their copy protection methods installed extra bullshit on your system. I'm very anal about which processes are running on my system at all times, and keep my process list trimmed down to the bare minimum. So Starforce was destined to fail with me from day one.

After this lowlife tactic by Starforce to try and scare game devs and publishers, I wish I could say my disdain for them has grown, but it couldn't get any worse.

I've never been a huge Stardock fan, only because one of their products hasn't hooked me yet. But after this bullshit from the makers of Starforce, and reading about how Stardock is distributing their game and treating customers, they've scored some points with me. I'll definitely be paying attention to their future products, and will also be reading more about GalCiv 2, and possibly buy it when I get the time to actually play it.

I've also read that GalCiv 2 sales has already exceeded Stardock's original expectations for the game. That's great news, and the Starforce morons can fall off the earth. No one needs 'em.

As a side note, Starforce protection easily cost EgoSoft a sale from me. I was going to pre-order that game based on my (eventual after patching) excellent experience with X2 - The Threat, but once I read in their forums they were going with Starforce protection, my pre-order process came to a screeching halt! Turns out I didn't miss much, because reviews months afterward say the game is totally unfinished. But if they hadn't used Starforce they would still have my money regardless.

Starforce lowers sales and creates customer contempt. But it's funny to see them fail when they try and spin it otherwise.

[AversionFX]

Oh, btw, Starforce has been beaten for past a year now. The pirates are still laughing.


They sure are.

Starforce has not been 'beaten'. It won't be beaten until you can leech a game using it off usenet and play it without getting your lab coat on and fucking about with a million different programs while performing a rain dance.

To my knowledge, Deviance has been breaking games that use Starforce. So, that leads me to believe that starforce has infact been broken.

[Borys]

Hate it or love it Starforce is the second best anti-piracy protection out there (the first one being STEAM) - that's why so many comapnies are interested in it. Of course we wouldn't even have to deal with it if those 12-yr old punks would stop warezing every game that gets released :[

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Starforce has not been 'beaten'. It won't be beaten until you can leech a game using it off usenet and play it without getting your lab coat on and fucking about with a million different programs while performing a rain dance.

Supposedly Virtual Drive Pro mounts StarForce-protected CD images with a bare minimum of fuss, although I assume StarForce will "fix" this eventually (if they haven't already).

[bean19]

I agree with Stardock - if you treat a customer right, provide free updates, etc., then people will buy your product and be much more happier that it is not copy protected. GalCiv was great, because you constantly received free updates for a full year - when you bought it properly. These were not patches, these usually added something good to the game.

I don't mind copy protection that isn't invasive.

For example, The Sims 2 uses SafeDisk. This small extra layer of protection prevents theft by amateur pirates and makes it only available to people who buy or download an additional hacking tool.

Basically what SafeDisk does is make it so that the PC looks for the game CD before running the game, and shuts down if people are using software that emulates a CD or DVD drive to use an "image" of the CD.

This can be gotten around by people, though I'm not sure how personally as I buy my games.

My knowledge of hacking games comes from a friend who is terrible about it. He steals everything, and he has no problem with getting past StarForce either.

However, I think SafeDisk acheives the same thing as Starforce. . . it prevents amateur pirates from stealing games and limits it only to people who are "good" at it. However, SafeDisk does this without causing potential harm to legitimate customers or pirates.

You have to hate Starforce's public relations too. They threaten legal action at the drop of a hat, and linking to a pirating site for a game that chose not to use their product without asking that company's permission is just ugly business practice.

I'm going to continue to boycott Starforce's products. . . even ones that I really want to try out. This company is stinky.

[bean19]

Starforce has not been 'beaten'. It won't be beaten until you can leech a game using it off usenet and play it without getting your lab coat on and fucking about with a million different programs while performing a rain dance.

Thankfully they seem to be doing a good job of self-destructing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it work so that only a few people actually crack Starforce for each new game? Then they distribute their "work" to everyone so that it is as "simple" as beating SafeDisk or some other higher level copy protection.

There are solutions out there for companies that offer as much protection but that are not potentially malware.

I agree that StarForce would keep me from cracking games because I don't know how to pirate them at all (though I'm sure I could figure it out). StarForce is one extra layer to beat, but, according to my friend who has tried to teach me this stuff, so are a bunch of other higher level copy protections. The only practical difference is that StarForce is potentially malware.

[DigiWiz]

Funny how there are cracked executables for any starforce protected game are available within hours of release these days. No not month or even days, hours.

I don't know why some shills are calling it the best copy protection, it's about as good as most others - useless.

Here's a snapshot of the inventory of G....d, one of many well known pages where games go when they are annoyed by having to keep the CD in drive.


Splinter Cell 2 [GERMAN] No-CD/Fixed Image
Splinter Cell 2 [ENGLISH] No-CD/Fixed Image

Splinter Cell 2 v1.01 [EURO] No-CD/Fixed EXE
Splinter Cell 2 v1.01 [ENGLISH/GERMAN] No-CD/Fixed EXE
Splinter Cell 2 v1.01 [ENGLISH] Fixed EXE
Splinter Cell 2 v1.0 [GERMAN] No-CD/Fixed EXE
Splinter Cell 2 v1.0 [ENGLISH] No-CD/Fixed EXE #2
Splinter Cell 2 v1.0 [ENGLISH] No-CD/Fixed EXE #1
Splinter Cell 2 v1.0 [ENGLISH] Fixed EXE


Hard to crack my ass.

At this point the only people who seem to benefit from copy protection are the copy protection developers. Publishers are screwing up customer relationships by adding a rootkit to their software, developers tend to hate it for adding bugs and making their customers angry and copy protection developers are making $$$.

I wonder how far the interest of those copy protection developers goes. Just badmouthing games that do well without? Actively engaging or supporting piracy of games not using their protection? Not that would be unheard of in other industries...

[GrinR]

Just a heads up for folks: Talking about your piracy habits is a good way to get banned. I know, it's happened to me. Maybe things have changed, but in my experience EA has a zero-tolerance policy about piracy talk.

Oh, also, the day developers realize that draconian copy-protection methods are futile is the same day those "12-year old pirates" start buying games. For the sarcasm-limited, that means it'll never happen in either case.

[Karmakin]

I won't buy games that use any sort of CD-based copy protection. Period. All the games I play I can play without the CD. Half-Life, UT2004, Guild Wars, and various free to download games.

[hund_]

I won't buy games that use any sort of CD-based copy protection. Period. All the games I play I can play without the CD. Half-Life, UT2004, Guild Wars, and various free to download games.
at least 2 of the games you listed[ut2004+hl]had copy protection ;)

i never if known buy a game with starforce until a nocd crack comes out.the most recent exception was bet on soldier.when the crack came out 9 months later i reinstalled it ;)

install of bos=2.4 gig
crack for bos=2.2 gig
;)

[RMan]

Sadly, for the reason Bean19 mentioned these copy protection schemes work, and that's stopping the casual pirate. I still think some of these publishers are missing a big point about piracy, and that’s that these days it’s sometimes the path of least resistance for getting software. I’ve downloaded two games in the last few years (one I lost my CD for, and the other I broke my CD) and they were easier to get the games than going to the store and buying them. Although in my case I wasn’t going to pay for the game twice anyway, I’d bet for some people it’s as much about taking the path of least resistance rather than just purely about not wanting to pay for the software (IOW, digital delivery is the deciding factor, not necessarily the price). If they’d offer download options they could help in that respect (much like the music industry fighting a losing battle against mp3s).

[DigiWiz]

Example of a StarForce PR representative trying to rewrite history by removing the mention of the torrent incident from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=StarForce&action=history

[GoblinToe]

Example of a StarForce PR representative trying to rewrite history by removing the mention of the torrent incident from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=StarForce&action=history

Haha. That's classic. I wonder how long that battle of editing will wage on for.

I love wikipedia.

That Robust Physique guy is going to be pretty busy.

[DigiWiz]

OMG, look at the back history, he's been rewriting it back to advertisment status for the last couple of weeks. He either works for them or he's clearly insane, I just can
t see the usual fanboyism that exists for game extend to copy protecton software.

Looks like the Boycott Starforce alliace just keep repasting their view of the article over his edits, I doubt he can win that :)

[Neosho]

I love his claim that "starforce isen't cracked". If that's the case, why are there nocd cracks everywhere, why are torrents of said games so amazingly available.

This man obviously has his head in teh sand or up starforce PR's ass....probably both.

[Demize99]

i never if known buy a game with starforce until a nocd crack comes out.the most recent exception was bet on soldier.when the crack came out 9 months later i reinstalled it ;)

You bought Bet on Soldier and it had Starforce protection? You poor bastard, you got reamed twice.

[51|RandoM]

I agree with Stardock - if you treat a customer right, provide free updates, etc., then people will buy your product and be much more happier that it is not copy protected.


That is a great belief. It is also a belief that doesn't even remotely address piracy. Check out that word you use pretty early, customer. Bingo, suddenly we're not talking about how to deal with piracy, we're talking about how to treat our paying customers.

Gotta be a compromise, just a matter of where you draw the line. Stardock actually has it pretty easy, imho. It isn't like they're putting out games that appeal to the mass market anyways.

All that said, the torrent link in the public forum, to a game from a company that chose not to use your protection software, furthermore a post by a member of your company, that is about as wrong as it gets.

"You's guys better coughs up the dough for our 'protection' see, or bad things like torrents could happen to you."

[51|RandoM]

Of course the other option is to bring back the SSI paper glyph wheel...

Hmm, I cracked that protection, but I was a kid back then.

Remember the codepage technique where it was a piece of gloss black cardboard with flat black codewords---so it wouldn't photocopy?

[Royal Fool]

Hmm, I cracked that protection, but I was a kid back then.

Remember the codepage technique where it was a piece of gloss black cardboard with flat black codewords---so it wouldn't photocopy?

Yeah, I remember one or two games that had those. I lost both of them (The codepages, that is)... ugh.

[Kelegacy]

I was a bit saddened last night when I saw that GC2 was one of the top downloads on a torrent site. Still, most people who download, IMO, were people who weren't going to purchase such games in the first place. At least that's what I'd like to believe.

[Citizen Philip]

I was on the edge of buying this game since it's release, when I read Penny Arcade last week and the mention of starship designing it finallly pushed me over the edge. I bought the game Friday night, and strangely enough a story about Starforce and Stardock a day after.

I bought Winter Assault, the expansion to Dawn of War. The copy protection corrupted my DVD drive, it would not read or accept any disks. I had to REMOVE my DVD drive and put in my old CD-ROM drive to get it working.

I was very pissed, and have been strongly against copy protection since.

[agentgray]

I was a bit saddened last night when I saw that GC2 was one of the top downloads on a torrent site. Still, most people who download, IMO, were people who weren't going to purchase such games in the first place. At least that's what I'd like to believe.
The amazing thing is that Stardock claims they have sold more copies of GalCiv II in the first week than they did of GalCiv I combined all due to word of mouth and the fact that if you make something good and provided small updates (bug fixes and content) that people will buy it.

I did for the first game and I did for the second. Bought the download and the had it mailed to me.

This game is very, very deep. Look for a newbie guide in stardock's forums for help.

I love it. Gives me something else to do other than play Guild Wars. ;)

[Spigot]

I was on the edge of buying this game since it's release, when I read Penny Arcade last week and the mention of starship designing it finallly pushed me over the edge. I bought the game Friday night, and strangely enough a story about Starforce and Stardock a day after.

I bought Winter Assault, the expansion to Dawn of War. The copy protection corrupted my DVD drive, it would not read or accept any disks. I had to REMOVE my DVD drive and put in my old CD-ROM drive to get it working.

I was very pissed, and have been strongly against copy protection since.
I was the same way. I wasn't overly impressed with the first GalCiv, but had heard great things about the second. Upon hearing Tycho wax rapturously about the starship editor, I knew I had to get it. I love it, but I still suck.

Hmm... I picked up Dawn of War the same day I got GalCiv2. I hope DoW doesn't eat my hard drive. I'll just make sure I don't use my DVD drive.

[genocidalrobot]

I bought Winter Assault, the expansion to Dawn of War. The copy protection corrupted my DVD drive, it would not read or accept any disks. I had to REMOVE my DVD drive and put in my old CD-ROM drive to get it working.

what copy protection does Dawn of War: Winter Assault use? I don't see it on the Starforce list. Is it securom? I don't remember having any problems with that when I had it installed.

But then again, my hard drive crapped out a few months back & I had to buy a new one. Maybe securom caused it?

[Citizen Philip]

I believe Winter Assault uses Securom. Stupid thing.

GC2 is fun so far, nice tutortials built in, interface is clean and reasonably straighr forward, my only quip is that some of the mouse controls don't feel as intutive as they should be.