Dungeons and Dragons Online In Stores Already

[net7runner]

In case anyone else missed it, D&D Online: Stormreach hit shelves a few days ago (you can get it easily enough from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009N5O5E/sr=8-1/qid=1141560327/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5149650-1271914?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance)).

It's a little too early for any reviews to come out, but Gamespot has posted a post-release first impression (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/ddonline/news.html?sid=6145431) which seems to generally approve of the execution.

This is one of the more unique approaches to the MMO concept. I for one am a little tired of WoW's "Everquest - but better" approach. Has anyone tried out the game at all?

[NoName]

I've played this game for awhile now. Although fun at first, it gets old really quick. It's to repetitive. I was sad, I love D&D.

[Salesmunn]

Played the Beta. Sad, very sad.

[gawaintheblind]

this has been posted about so many times that Im not going to do it again. Game sucks, please see previous posts.

[Dakar]

Played the beta extensively

Like the others said, it sucks, and bad

I had high hopes for it too

[Bushido]

Love D&D, hate turbine. Whats gonna happen when you buy this game and they fucking sunset on your ass?

[Orosco]

Forced grouping = bad. No thanks, this will be the next Turbine failure. If there was no monthly fee, then maybe.

[51|RandoM]

Forced grouping = bad. No thanks, this will be the next Turbine failure. If there was no monthly fee, then maybe.

I suppose you used to D&D all the time as a solo adventurer, sitting across from your trusty DM.

That must've been fun, not.

My point of view is that it doesn't have more than a month's worth of content at the moment, so asking us to subscribe to it is ridiculous.

[Montgomery_Python]

I might be considered that a pen and paper live experience might not be easily translated into an MMO. Or successfully.

[Orosco]

I suppose you used to D&D all the time as a solo adventurer, sitting across from your trusty DM.

That must've been fun, not.

My point of view is that it doesn't have more than a month's worth of content at the moment, so asking us to subscribe to it is ridiculous.


Lol, I never play D+D and could care less about the DM. And I can solo D+D adventures, its called Baldur's Gate.
It doesn't matter if the game is based off of D+D or space rabbits or jello, forced grouping still sucks.

[Klade]

I suppose you used to D&D all the time as a solo adventurer, sitting across from your trusty DM.

That must've been fun, not.

I've heard this comment from a lot of people in responce forced grouping. I see where your coming from but its really not a valid comparison. You simply can't play the Pen and Paper game by yourself so it makes sense to group, it would be silly to do it any other way.

But when I play a computer game 99.9% of the time I'm in a room by myself. I don't want to deal with all the annoying problems of having to find some random person online and co-ordinate a group and then pray they know enough about what they are doing not to kill me in the first few minutes.

Bottom line is the game stinks, the devs have their heads in their asses about a lot of concepts and are more interested in bringing about their vision (serious EQ1 style) then making the game fun.

[drakkarim]

But when I play a computer game 99.9% of the time I'm in a room by myself. I don't want to deal with all the annoying problems of having to find some random person online and co-ordinate a group and then pray they know enough about what they are doing not to kill me in the first few minutes.


agree 110%.

when i play pc games, i don't want to deal with people, i have that in RL, i don't need them stinking up my fantasy worlds :)

i really liked the way the game is made however, just the forced grouping thing that broke it for me, its why i don't bother with mmorpg's anymore at all.

i don't understand this assumption that if someone wants to play a game online they must want to play it with someone else.

i mean god forbid i just want an online game because of the dynamic content and the POSSIBILITY to interact with other if I so CHOOSE to do so.

I won't have someone telling me that the only way i can enjoy their game is if i put up with a group.

well, they can and they do, but at the end of the day its just another monthly subscription they're throwing out just because they think they know better, or are too lazy to do it differently.

i think this is slowly changing, with more and more use of instancing. now if they could just make the leap from what there is today to scaling the instances based on party size then everyone would be happy.

[Karmakin]

The first impressions I've heard of it makes it sound like a less good Guild Wars. It replaces fast usage of skills with a twitch based attack system that just doesn't work.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I can't even believe people want a D&D game where you go it alone. The entire point of D&D is party based gameplay. Let's not be social now. :p

I agree that having to group in all MMOs sucks, and I'd definitely pick up an MMO where I could solo, but grouping just makes sense in the D&D setting.

[Dakar]

I can't even believe people want a D&D game where you go it alone. The entire point of D&D is party based gameplay. Let's not be social now. :p

I agree that having to group in all MMOs sucks, and I'd definitely pick up an MMO where I could solo, but grouping just makes sense in the D&D setting.
The problem comes in that you do not always have the time to wait around for a group, wait for a group to get organized, and all the other overhead time involved with groups. If you want to hop on and get something accomplished in an hour, you are pretty much screwed.

I enjoy grouping in most games, I love NWN for example, but predicating my enjoyment on OTHER people is just not good.

[51|RandoM]

Lol, I never play D+D and could care less about the DM. And I can solo D+D adventures, its called Baldur's Gate.
It doesn't matter if the game is based off of D+D or space rabbits or jello, forced grouping still sucks.

You don't solo in Baldur's Gate, you have a party.

If you don't like to group, there are plenty of other games out there for you. You're not forced to group in DDO anyways. Solo as much as you want. :p

[51|RandoM]

The first impressions I've heard of it makes it sound like a less good Guild Wars. It replaces fast usage of skills with a twitch based attack system that just doesn't work.

The PvE is much better than guild wars PvE. On the other hand, there is no PvP. It is no more twitch than guildwars is, either, honestly.

[Orosco]

You don't solo in Baldur's Gate, you have a party.

A party all controlled by 1 person.

[51|RandoM]

The problem comes in that you do not always have the time to wait around for a group, wait for a group to get organized, and all the other overhead time involved with groups. If you want to hop on and get something accomplished in an hour, you are pretty much screwed.


You don't wait around much on groups in DDO, they form quite quickly and easily. You can hop on and get something accomplished in an hour in DDO. There are lots of quests in the 30 minute range.

As long as you don't get a bad reputation, you shouldn't have to wait more than 5-10 minutes for a group until you get around lvl 8. Groups will take awhile then because there won't be that many other players at that level.

The only class that gets a bum rap at the moment is Sorceror. The way the game is setup, wizards are better in every way, so people will pick a wizard over a sorceror.

[51|RandoM]

A party all controlled by 1 person.

Yeah, and you're comparing a single player experience to a multi-player experience. I suppose you hate oranges because they're not red like apples too?

[thecrazyd]

This brings up a good idea. It would be awesome if there was a MMO where you could control a group, or bring in others to help you if you wanted.

[11thfinger]

when i play pc games, i don't want to deal with people, i have that in RL, i don't need them stinking up my fantasy worlds

Then play a single player game.. why the hell are there so many people in this thread bitching about other people in and MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME? Forget that D&D is meant to be a social game, you people don't want other people in your multiplayer game. What's the point? Buy a single player RPG and get the fuck out of multiplayer discussions.

[Deadend]

The real time aspect and click-to-attack is what I think is stupid about the game.

If all the fighting is in instances, why not just make it turn based?

The action-ish melee feels sloppy, because all it is is attacking faster, there does not appear to be technique or much skill involved.

Oh, and to everyone who is defending forced grouping, in DDO, if your group sucks... you will die, and get NOTHING for your time and effort, you may even lose money if you bought healing potions and used them.

The UI is horrible as well, just interacting with the gameworld is such a chore.

[Orosco]

Yeah, and you're comparing a single player experience to a multi-player experience. I suppose you hate oranges because they're not red like apples too?

Nah, I'm more of a peach guy myself.
Nice try anyways.

And if you want to see funny, go to the official forums. Theres a bunch of people who have seen most of the game, and are ready to quit before they start getting billed, and who could blame them?

Every race and class has the same starting area, same old quests. Jeez, even the much dissed EQ2 gives you a choice of a good or evil city (with different quests) after the isle tutorial.

I'm guessing about 1-2 years before it joins Asheron's Call 2 in Turbine's trashcan (along with the red apples and oranges).

[Scull]

I'm playing DDO, and loving it! Part of the reason is that my normal D&D tabletop group is playing with me, and we all party together to make the game very fun. I'll admit, that partying with a bunch of strangers lacks appeal, but it is still fun to do so and very easy. I've never encountered an MMO that makes grouping as easy and as convenient. The solo content is pretty much non-existent if you actually want to get anywhere in the game, but as long as you have a good group of regulars, it's a blast.

[Mason]

Hmm, forced grouping.

It'd be great this game had a socially-constructed alignment system. Basically, after grouping with someone, you could report on how you felt they behaved, which would be added onto their permanent alignment. If someone was helpful and sharing, you'd rate them as good, and their overall alignment would increase slightly. Same thing if they were being a dick.

Make it so that people can only assign 1 good and 1 evil report a day, and they can't ever report on the same person twice. Evil characters would also be less able to rate someone (the asymmetry of righteousness).

To me, if a game forces grouping, at very least it should have this or a similar feature to track who is worth grouping with.

[HonestIago]

Hmm, forced grouping.

It'd be great this game had a socially-constructed alignment system. Basically, after grouping with someone, you could report on how you felt they behaved, which would be added onto their permanent alignment. If someone was helpful and sharing, you'd rate them as good, and their overall alignment would increase slightly. Same thing if they were being a dick.

Make it so that people can only assign 1 good and 1 evil report a day, and they can't ever report on the same person twice. Evil characters would also be less able to rate someone (the asymmetry of righteousness).

To me, if a game forces grouping, at very least it should have this or a similar feature to track who is worth grouping with.

Basically an interesting approach, I have to admit but probably way too complicated to realize :) so many factors you would have to count in, they might turn that into a game by itself...

What I get from the thread - hardly anybody likes the game, mostly because of the forced group play and the lack of complexity.

Is there any game you would recommend instead? I played Guild Wars, it was ok but once you are through with the missions - nothing really remains to do. I do not like PvP, though.

[Mason]

Basically an interesting approach, I have to admit but probably way too complicated to realize :) so many factors you would have to count in, they might turn that into a game by itself...

What I get from the thread - hardly anybody likes the game, mostly because of the forced group play and the lack of complexity.

Is there any game you would recommend instead? I played Guild Wars, it was ok but once you are through with the missions - nothing really remains to do. I do not like PvP, though.
Eh, I think it'd be worth a shot. It'd add some meaningful roleplay, and make morality something you have to live, not something you pick at character creation.

And as far as recommendations, it depends on what you're looking for. I've kicked all MMOs and been clean for a while, personally, and the amount of fun in my life hasn't decreased a bit.

[gawaintheblind]

BAH hah hah hah.

The DDO forums are AWSOME. this is my favorite quote:

(In reply to somebody complaining)
"...The content is only lacking if you grinded straight to level 10."

which of course is the max lvl of DDO. its been a week and a half (I think?) and people have hit max lvl already.

[gawaintheblind]

What I get from the thread - hardly anybody likes the game, mostly because of the forced group play and the lack of complexity.


I didn't mind the forced grouping. it gave it a D&D feel to me, and thats what I wanted. What bothered me was the REST of the game.



Is there any game you would recommend instead? I played Guild Wars, it was ok but once you are through with the missions - nothing really remains to do. I do not like PvP, though.

Im playing City of Villains right now, and its fun, but also pretty repetitive. for every 10 or so generic missions you run, you get one thats pretty unique, with a cool map and enemies and whatnot. but the rest of the time you're basically running through the same stuff. I think of all the MMORPGS i've played in the last several years, DAoC was the best. But it suffered when the nextgen stuff came out, and hasn't (and probably wont) regain its fan base. EQ2 was terrible.

If you're wanting a game that will take weeks to figure out, you can give Eve a shot. I really want to like it, and I admire it for what it is, which is the closest thing we currently have to a real "RPG" mmorpg. That being said, it was too hard to get into for me, and I don't have a whole lot of time to put into it. I may pick it up when CoV gets too boring to play though. Who knows.

Wow is godawful too. Not as bad as EQ2, but once you get past the pretty colors, you realize theres not much there.

[f1sh3r]

This brings up a good idea. It would be awesome if there was a MMO where you could control a group, or bring in others to help you if you wanted.

isn't that what guild wars does?

[lockwoodx]

DDO? Save your money there is about as much content as pong, and pong has balanced pvp!

[thecrazyd]

isn't that what guild wars does?
Umm... no? Not at all.

[Steele Johnson]

I can't even believe people want a D&D game where you go it alone. The entire point of D&D is party based gameplay. Let's not be social now. :p


This isn't a pen&paper game, this is a pc/video game. When designing an online game, believe it or not, solo play should be the first design requirement. Grouping should always be optional. There are just too many wetbags out there that ruin the fun and cause too much startup time.

Multiplay should just be optional and have some sort of benefit like rolling in more xp, less chance of death, etc.

Playing online with other people doesn't mean that you need them for combat situations. I trade with other players all the time. Just like trading isn't a requirement, group combat shouldn't be either.

Face it, Turbine made a really stupid mistake, as they've done with most of their other games. Surprise surprise.

I have no idea how this company was able to acquire the DnD license as well as Lord of the Rings. They'll probably fuck that game up as well.

[Steele Johnson]

Umm... no? Not at all.

You're wrong. Guild Wars has henchmen that I use all the time because I don't have the time to put together a group. The bots actually work out better than most players that I've played with.

[mig]

I'm playing DDO, and loving it! Part of the reason is that my normal D&D tabletop group is playing with me, and we all party together to make the game very fun. I'll admit, that partying with a bunch of strangers lacks appeal, but it is still fun to do so and very easy. I've never encountered an MMO that makes grouping as easy and as convenient. The solo content is pretty much non-existent if you actually want to get anywhere in the game, but as long as you have a good group of regulars, it's a blast.

Almost verbatum on how I feel about the game. I've got 5 other buddies who all have played the tabletop , and who are no strangers to MMOs either. It has a certain NWN/Diablo feel to it. I think I enjoy it due to the fact it's nothing like Wow, and it seems to be very adolescent unfriendly.

[HonestIago]

Thanks to the guys who replied to my question about other online games - the actual state is pretty disappointing. Every game has a certain level of entertainment and once you get past it (which usually does not take a long time) it gets repetitive.

For this moral issue: Sure, I would absolutely support that feature, in Guild Wars it really ticked me off when you got close to the finish of one of the longer missions and then somebody disappeared or started acting weird; really annoying.

I will simply wait out another decade, maybe then there will a good online rpg ;-) - oh, I forgot, until then we will only have consoles and gaming will be reduced to boom, crash, bang :( and interaction will be listed in the OED as a lexical item no longer in use.

[GrinR]

I'm playing DDO, and loving it! Part of the reason is that my normal D&D tabletop group is playing with me, and we all party together to make the game very fun. I'll admit, that partying with a bunch of strangers lacks appeal, but it is still fun to do so and very easy. I've never encountered an MMO that makes grouping as easy and as convenient. The solo content is pretty much non-existent if you actually want to get anywhere in the game, but as long as you have a good group of regulars, it's a blast.

I have lots of problems with DDO, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that they have gotten closer to the RPG adventure I want than anyone else.

Most of the complainers here, and elsewhere, don't like the game because it's not what they have in their heads as the game they want to play. I felt like that when I got the pre-order, and almost returned it. But once I got into a couple of groups and started to go through the dungeons past the starter zone, I saw the magic of the game.

Traps! Secret doors! Hidden areas with hidden bosses! Surprises and CHOICES. I enjoyed watching our rogue sneak ahead and look for traps and secret doors, while our cleric blesses and the rest of us get ready for enemies who could spring at us at any time. It's a far cry from the mob-slaughter I'm used to in every other MOG. It's taken some getting used to that I don't NEED to kill all the mobs - I can avoid them and still get the same XP.

Speaking of which, this is the first MOG -ever- that gives you more XP/time for grouping. I L O V E it. I am now always in a group, and despite the endless complaints by others, I have never had a problem with any of my PUGs.

As for the level 10 business - if it's your intention to "max out your character" ASAP, this is not the game for you. The character rewards are not that amazing - the skills and spells are limited, and apparently there are not a lot of "special" items in the game. Also, IMO the effects of flaming weapons and stuff are HORRIBLE. I repeat - the items and skillsets are NOT IMPRESSIVE.

So, if you're looking to try something different from the usual MOG, and if you're interested in a group-centric multiplayer game (with built-in voice chat) that is all about the adventure (plot + dungeon tricks and traps), give DDO a try.

[Intruder]

To those who have it, what kind of PC does it take to run it and look pretty like the screenshots with a nice framerate? Is it a system hog?

[ChumLord]

To those who have it, what kind of PC does it take to run it and look pretty like the screenshots with a nice framerate? Is it a system hog?
I'm running it on a Dual Xeon 3.06GHz/2MB RAM/ATI Radeon x850pro 256MB and it runs OK at 1280x1024 (my 19" LCD's max res). I run 4xAA/16xAF. I have to alt-enter out of the app every hour or so to keep the frame rate smooth. It acts like there is a memory leak in the code, IMHO. I have no trouble with the same settings with UT2k4/Morrowind/Gothic2/DOOM3/blah...

The code, I'm sure, is not threaded so the dual processors have little to do with the game performance. These are the specs officially posted. (http://turbine.fuzeqna.com/ddo.support/consumer/kbdetail.asp?kbid=3)

[Pluvious]

After playing Guild Wars for six months.. this looks very weak. I'll stick with GW and the new expansion coming soon.

[GrinR]

To those who have it, what kind of PC does it take to run it and look pretty like the screenshots with a nice framerate? Is it a system hog?

I run it in a window 1680x1040 or so, at high settings and aside from going to the inn where there is some halting while all the people load the game is 100% smooth all the time.

I have an AthlonXP2500 with a NVIDIA 6800GT and 2 gigs of RAM.

[GoblinToe]

A friend of mine was in beta, and he said run, do not walk, as far away from this game as possible.

[GrinR]

LOTS OF PEOPLE HATE DDO

That said, anyone who wants to know about DDO should be made aware that the people who hate DDO aren't playing it.

The people who ARE playing it (*cough* EA guild *cough*) are enjoying it tremendously. I mention this because there are a lot of people posting beta comments about how shit it is, and their opinions just don't count (see above).

[DeadPixel]

Yeah I'm not super impressed with the game, but its far from SHITTY as many posts indicate. Honestly I'm having more fun with this than Guild Wars.

Complain all you want about the monthly fee. Personally I'd pay $30/month for a great game. Sure beats $50/month cable TV, ad bloated mess of brain mush.

[Zurik]

LOTS OF PEOPLE HATE DDO

That said, anyone who wants to know about DDO should be made aware that the people who hate DDO aren't playing it.

The people who ARE playing it (*cough* EA guild *cough*) are enjoying it tremendously. I mention this because there are a lot of people posting beta comments about how shit it is, and their opinions just don't count (see above).

Yeah, I've been playng it all weekend and its fun. Its does have its issues, but I'm too hooked to let it ruin all the fun in there.

[drakkarim]

Then play a single player game.. why the hell are there so many people in this thread bitching about other people in and MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME? Forget that D&D is meant to be a social game, you people don't want other people in your multiplayer game. What's the point? Buy a single player RPG and get the fuck out of multiplayer discussions.

your thinking is my whole point. just because its multiplayer doesn't mean i should be forced to hold hands with all the other kids. i should always have a choice to enjoy (equally) a mulitplayer game by myself if i don't choose to group, the multiplayer part should be an aspect of the game, not the whole point of it.

[Syrinx]

I can't even believe people want a D&D game where you go it alone. The entire point of D&D is party based gameplay. Let's not be social now. :p

I agree that having to group in all MMOs sucks, and I'd definitely pick up an MMO where I could solo, but grouping just makes sense in the D&D setting.

There are times I want to play at my own pace and have interruptions. That doesn't work very well when forced to group.

[Orosco]

Any crafting in the game at all? How about fishing or cooking or skills like that, those sort of "little things" that you can mess with when you don't have much time? I didn't notice any in the beta myself. Which is sad.

[DigiWiz]

Answer this simple question: Why pay the same monthly fee as WoW for a game with about 1/15th of the content and 1/5th of the polish? Just because it's D&D? Just because it's "different" from WoW?

I don't think so. Make it 6.99 a month an I'd start considering.

[GrinR]

Answer this simple question: Why pay the same monthly fee as WoW for a game with about 1/15th of the content and 1/5th of the polish? Just because it's D&D? Just because it's "different" from WoW?

I don't think so. Make it 6.99 a month an I'd start considering.

Answer this simple question: Why can't I get more than 10-20 dungeons to go through, none of which contain any surprises and all of which rely entirely on defeating wave after wave of mobs? Is it because Blizzard/SOE/etc. don't have any imagination? Just because it's what your average gamer expects?

Oh wait, I can. I'm happy to pay 13/mo for interesting dungeons to go through with my friends. Meanwhile I have to put up with the idiots who just shout at the top of their lungs "DDO SUX IT'S NOT EQ/WOW/etc." *sigh*

Here's a tip: if you want to post something bad about DDO, check allll the other posts and if you don't have anything new to say - let those testimonials suffice.

[TrackZero]

This is one of the more unique approaches to the MMO concept. I for one am a little tired of WoW's "Everquest - but better" approach. Has anyone tried out the game at all?

Personally I always found WoW to be more a 50/50 combination of EQ and Dark Age of Camelot myself. Minus the suck + better art.

[BigJonno]

DDO is the best thing to happen to MMORPGs since Everquest, simply because it's completely different to EQ and all the other games that are basically variants on EQ. Even WoW, which I love and play almost every day, is just a highly polished EQ.

DDO makes you realise how much MMORPGs have managed to con people into ignoring the absence of what are considered fundementals of single-player games. When was the last time you got excited about climbing a ladder in a single-player game? When was the last time you had to climb a ladder in a MMORPG? See the difference?

I do have reservations about calling DDO a MMORPG, same way that I wouldn't call Guild Wars a MMORPG. DDO is a multiplayer dungeon-crawling game. To be honest, I think charging a monthly fee is a mistake. Personally, I could see myself playing this on a regular basis with the same group of people, but I wouldn't be playing it enough to justify paying out every month, especially with another MMORPG on the go. Paying a small fee for new dungeons once I'd exhausted the intial offering, on the other hand, I would do.

[Undertakr]

Simply put, if you played the RPG's of the 80's, early 90's like Bards Tale, Zork, etc...you are going to like DDO. It's a total throwback to those types of games where story and thought and patience ruled your game and it wasn't about loot or leveling or end games, it was about making your way through the journey and caring about your character and it's role in the game, not the +15 sword of lamer it had.

This is an MMORPG that is geared towards 30+ year olds, IMO. A game where you can hop on and play for an hour or so, get quests done, not worry about leveling or camping or who has better loot or having to craft some crappy sack by doing time sinks over and over. You get in, you get a quest, you play the quest. Simple, effective, challenging dungeons, not just zergs in mazes.

If you take your time and actually PLAY the game instead of race the game, I think you'd find that DDO is actually really cool, even with the bugs that will be inevitably squashed.

[Stormwatcher]

I wish it had some wilderness to explore, though... even if it was the road to get to the dungeon. I always loved going through forests and whatnot in Pen-and-paper gaming sessions.

[gawaintheblind]

Ok, I know I said I wouldn't do this, but the more I read of this the more irritated I get. so...


I liked Bards Tale (does anyone remember the construction set? did you make anything on it? god that was great) and Zork, and wizardry, and nearly all of the adventure/rpg games of the late 80s. How about the quest for glory series? FANTASTIC. I'll even one up you, I played (and built) a whole lot of Eamon adventures. now THAT is oldschool.

I do not like WoW. I do not like EQ.

I play D&D twice a week, two different games. Im running one of them.

I do not like DDO. Its too limited, there's no depth. I appreciate the voice overs in the dungeons for the "dungeon master," and I think the thief abilities are AWSOME and wish more games would do similar things, to keep thieves from being regulated to assassins. BUT the game itself is poor. The combat is decently done, the graphics are ok, but very very brown, and thats about all I can say for it. It works on the guildwars model, everything is an instance, with whoever is in your group being able to adventure with you. Its not an mmorpg, and charging money for it is crazy, unless they plan on releasing some actual mmorpg content very soon. You're trapped in the city, and that is the game. Good times. The main reason I don't like WoW is that it is equpment based rather than exploration based. Instead of traveling to the cool new area, you farm the same dungeon 50 times for the boots of whatever. This game suffers from a crazy lack of actual content, and you're trapped in the city, so its not exactly exploration based... its also short on items, so its not item based. Im not completely sure what its based ON. You can say its based on grouping with your friends and having a good time. I invite you to play guildwars, nwn, bg2, hell, play serious sam. Those are all free.

The translation from pen and paper to computer game went poorly. The feats that melee classes get to balance out the crazy damage of magic do not work very well in a real time environment. Therefore they settled back on the generic "melee stomp better" mechanics of every other mmorpg. The differences between wizards and sorcerers does not translate well either in a game that uses spellpoints intead of spell slots. So the sorcerers are useless.

The level cap is 10. people have already hit that. This is no surprise to me. The fact is, the dungeons and dragons level system doesn't translate very well either into an mmorpg. Even if the max level had been 20, which is as high as you go before entering into the "epic" stage of the pen and paper game, people would still be hitting it shortly. The problem is not the levels, its the paradigm shift required between mmorpg rewards and D&D rewards. they are different. Exp is only half of it. The other half is split into money/items and world footprints, that is, leaving your mark on the game world. NPCs react differently to you. You can build your wizard tower on the edge of the city, and become the benevolent watcher, or build a castle and become lord of some area. The game evolves, pulling back for a broader metagame, a much larger scope. When you have achieved lvl 20, you are no longer going out to slay the orcs in the forest, you are now controlling, or helping to control, vast kingdoms. you may be called upon to defend the land from invaders, giant epic war battles and such. The point is, none of this translates well. None of it. And DDO didn't even try.

Instead, they relied on the old tried and true exp/item/cash reward, which is fine, if they were going to also rely on the same old eq/wow/daoc exp rewards, and the same game mechanics for advancement. Which they did not. Instead they took the worst of both worlds, smashed em together, and called it good. Its limiting to the point of laughable. It barely rates an expansion pack, let alone a full game. There just isnt ENOUGH of it.

The controls are clumsy, the combat is clumsy. Eberon itself is a HORRIBLE campaign setting in the pen and paper universe, let alone for a computer game. I can only assume they wanted to get away from the standard, which would be forgotten realms, or greyhawk, because every other mmorpg is basically that. But they could have created a whole new world for this thing, and instead they decided to use Eberon, which my group won't touch with a 10 foot pole of touching. Not that it matters, because with the exception of the warforged, I didn't see one unique Eberon thing, except the obvious uses of magic all over the inexcapable city/prison.

Its just ass. And if you like it, then feel free to enjoy. but lets not call ass anything but ass.

[S1n1star]

Lol, I never play D+D and could care less about the DM. And I can solo D+D adventures, its called Baldur's Gate.
It doesn't matter if the game is based off of D+D or space rabbits or jello, forced grouping still sucks.

I remember playing Space Rabbits or Jello...I think it was one of those Steve Jackson ziplock bag games. :p

[S1n1star]

I'm playing DDO, and loving it! Part of the reason is that my normal D&D tabletop group is playing with me, and we all party together to make the game very fun. I'll admit, that partying with a bunch of strangers lacks appeal, but it is still fun to do so and very easy. I've never encountered an MMO that makes grouping as easy and as convenient. The solo content is pretty much non-existent if you actually want to get anywhere in the game, but as long as you have a good group of regulars, it's a blast.


Hey Scull, you might want to get some ground cover to hide those roots showing, you PLANT.

[S1n1star]

Ok, I know I said I wouldn't do this, but the more I read of this the more irritated I get. so...


I liked Bards Tale (does anyone remember the construction set? did you make anything on it? god that was great) and Zork, and wizardry, and nearly all of the adventure/rpg games of the late 80s. How about the quest for glory series? FANTASTIC. I'll even one up you, I played (and built) a whole lot of Eamon adventures. now THAT is oldschool.

I do not like WoW. I do not like EQ.

I play D&D twice a week, two different games. Im running one of them.

I do not like DDO. Its too limited, there's no depth. I appreciate the voice overs in the dungeons for the "dungeon master," and I think the thief abilities are AWSOME and wish more games would do similar things, to keep thieves from being regulated to assassins. BUT the game itself is poor. The combat is decently done, the graphics are ok, but very very brown, and thats about all I can say for it. It works on the guildwars model, everything is an instance, with whoever is in your group being able to adventure with you. Its not an mmorpg, and charging money for it is crazy, unless they plan on releasing some actual mmorpg content very soon. You're trapped in the city, and that is the game. Good times. The main reason I don't like WoW is that it is equpment based rather than exploration based. Instead of traveling to the cool new area, you farm the same dungeon 50 times for the boots of whatever. This game suffers from a crazy lack of actual content, and you're trapped in the city, so its not exactly exploration based... its also short on items, so its not item based. Im not completely sure what its based ON. You can say its based on grouping with your friends and having a good time. I invite you to play guildwars, nwn, bg2, hell, play serious sam. Those are all free.

The translation from pen and paper to computer game went poorly. The feats that melee classes get to balance out the crazy damage of magic do not work very well in a real time environment. Therefore they settled back on the generic "melee stomp better" mechanics of every other mmorpg. The differences between wizards and sorcerers does not translate well either in a game that uses spellpoints intead of spell slots. So the sorcerers are useless.

The level cap is 10. people have already hit that. This is no surprise to me. The fact is, the dungeons and dragons level system doesn't translate very well either into an mmorpg. Even if the max level had been 20, which is as high as you go before entering into the "epic" stage of the pen and paper game, people would still be hitting it shortly. The problem is not the levels, its the paradigm shift required between mmorpg rewards and D&D rewards. they are different. Exp is only half of it. The other half is split into money/items and world footprints, that is, leaving your mark on the game world. NPCs react differently to you. You can build your wizard tower on the edge of the city, and become the benevolent watcher, or build a castle and become lord of some area. The game evolves, pulling back for a broader metagame, a much larger scope. When you have achieved lvl 20, you are no longer going out to slay the orcs in the forest, you are now controlling, or helping to control, vast kingdoms. you may be called upon to defend the land from invaders, giant epic war battles and such. The point is, none of this translates well. None of it. And DDO didn't even try.

Instead, they relied on the old tried and true exp/item/cash reward, which is fine, if they were going to also rely on the same old eq/wow/daoc exp rewards, and the same game mechanics for advancement. Which they did not. Instead they took the worst of both worlds, smashed em together, and called it good. Its limiting to the point of laughable. It barely rates an expansion pack, let alone a full game. There just isnt ENOUGH of it.

The controls are clumsy, the combat is clumsy. Eberon itself is a HORRIBLE campaign setting in the pen and paper universe, let alone for a computer game. I can only assume they wanted to get away from the standard, which would be forgotten realms, or greyhawk, because every other mmorpg is basically that. But they could have created a whole new world for this thing, and instead they decided to use Eberon, which my group won't touch with a 10 foot pole of touching. Not that it matters, because with the exception of the warforged, I didn't see one unique Eberon thing, except the obvious uses of magic all over the inexcapable city/prison.

Its just ass. And if you like it, then feel free to enjoy. but lets not call ass anything but ass.


Yep...that sums up my DDO impressions EXACTLY.

[Malovech]

Excellent post gawaintheblind, you have answered every major concern and question I basically had about DDO.

I like many others played PnP RPGS and CRPG in the 80s and 90s and while I did enjoy the dungeon romps, actual DnD is far more than just that. They clearly dropped the ball on this product. Thanks for saving me time and money.