The Unstoppable DS Juggernaut

[Grumsh]

While sales figures are rarely more than general ego inflating, Gamasutra (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26275/New_DSi_LL_Debuts_At_Top_in_Japan_With_Over_100000 _Sold.php) has some recent sales figures that have to be mulled over a little bit.


The new larger-screened Nintendo DSi LL outsold all other hardware in Japan during the week ended November 22, selling 100,553 units in two days, and toppling the week's sales for PlayStation hardware that ruled a week prior.

DSi LL: 100,553
PS3: 34,752
Wii: 32,844
PSP: 32,752
DSi: 32,070
DS Lite: 5,051
PSP Go: 4,574
Xbox 360: 4,085
PS2: 2,024


Heres some food for thought, the new DSi LL sold 100k units in 2 days. This is technology that has aside from cosmetic changes remained stagnant since 2004. Is Nintendo holding back advances in the handheld market from a technological standpoint, or are customers really wanting this many revamps of old technology?

[Whimbrel]

Not arguing here, but it seemed like they did the exact same thing with the original gameboy- incremental upgrades with same format compatibility for years. The gameboy color and advance were exceptionally brief formats in comparison.

[kefka95]

Is Nintendo holding back advances in the handheld market from a technological standpoint, or are customers really wanting this many revamps of old technology?

I don't think it's up to Nintendo whether or not the technology is "held back". If people really wanted something more, they would stop buying the DS, and Nintendo would be forced to do something else (or another company would step in in their place). Consumers are the ones who make the decisions in these situations. As long as Nintendo is swimming in money, there's absolutely no reason for them to change their formula in any way.

[Anenome]

With all due respect, Grumsh, that question is silly. What drives handheld upgrades is not Nintendo's decisions, but very precise milestones of price vs performance.

Yes, customers really want this many revamps of an incredibly popular technology--and if they didn't you couldn't force it on them.

Why do people upgrade at all; let's ask that question. If you've owned a Gameboy for awhile that means you jumped into the market with a particular model. And let's say the lifespan of a handheld is a few years on average, say ~3 years, before someone decides to replace their old one. So, if a new model is released let's say every year on average, then the people who bought a DS three years ago are likely to upgrade to the current model. It's called a tickler-cycle, or an itch-cycle. People get the itch to get the new model after they've had the old one for awhile. It's not like people who just bought a new DS 3 months ago are upgrading to this model, they're not. It's gonna be another 3 years for them.

I have an old GBA from about 3 years ago and I'm ready to upgrade myself. Mine's one of the bigger models, right before the DS Lite came out. I was going to buy one of the DSi's, but with the new XL coming out (which is the US version of the Japanese LL) I will wait for it to be released and buy it instead.

In a real way, it's quite similar to the way that Apple has versioned its operating system, its hardware, and the iPod family itself.

There doesn't seem to be a word yet for this kind of super-popular consumer product, but this pattern has been emerging. Perhaps you could call it a super-product or super-good.

Nintendo has a minimum feature set that they -will not- compromise on, and one of those is how long you can play between recharging and another is the price-point. That dictates the kind of screen, and kind of battery, they can go with and ultimately the price-point dictates release schedule. When new tech they would like to put in becomes cheap enough to include, version the sucker.

Personally, I like the bigger screen. I'll be getting one.

[dr1]

Not sure what you mean by "holding back advances in the handheld market from a technological standpoint". The DS now has a camera, downloadable content and removable storage, and it always had a touchscreen, a microphone and wireless. Did you have a particular technology in mind?

OK it doesn't have an analog stick, but the touchscreen allows similar precision. It doesn't have tilt control, but there's been at least one Wario cart that did. The processor's not the beefiest, but the battery life is great. And the LL is responding to consumer demand (cough, PSPGo), enabling more people to play their games.

It's not a phone. It's not a PDA. Those (like Apple and Nokia) who want to make all-in-one devices that also play games have shown that it's possible to do so, so Nintendo is not really holding back technological development. They're just producing accessible technology at an affordable price.

[Grumsh]

Some valid points.

I guess I should have added a rhetorical question Tagline, but it really loses the edge when you add stuff like that =) .

I agree Nintendo has found a carrot that no one with cash can seem to deny throwing money at. At this rate everyone and their sister will own 4 versions of this ageing hardware. It's just boggling the mind that I think the new Iphone 3Gs might be technically more powerful than the DS's hardware.

Side note after 1 month the PSPgo has fallen to Xbox360 sales figures.

[Grumsh]

Basically Nintendo is suckering everyone into repeatedly buying the almost exact same hardware with minimal extra features, when I think the tech has advanced far enough for a more powerful handheld game system to enter the market.

Not sure about you but I think the fact that handheld graphics hit their peak with the TurboExpress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Express) by NEC in 1990 disappoints me.

[Scramble]

I find the constant revisions a bit annoying, but if you've got any model of DS, You're not really missing out on anything that someone with a newer model has.


Not sure about you but I think the fact that handheld graphics hit their peak with the TurboExpress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Express) by NEC in 1990 disappoints me.

You've never heard of a PSP?

[lockwoodx]

Heres some food for thought, the new DSi LL sold 100k units in 2 days. This is technology that has aside from cosmetic changes remained stagnant since 2004. Is Nintendo holding back advances in the handheld market from a technological standpoint, or are customers really wanting this many revamps of old technology?

Nintendo isn't holding back anything the consumer doesn't want. They found the golden ticket. Simple + Fun + Inexpensive

[emjoi]

Perhaps it's a matter of the handheld market "Maturing".
Developers are now comfortable with developing for the DS. Users have a large library of games. Chucking all that away is a big deal.

Of course if Nintendo released another completely compatible DS which had a decent 3D chip built in, then developers and users could gradually evolve to the new, faster platform.

[Johan]

Side note after 1 month the PSPgo has fallen to Xbox360 sales figures.

THAT is the really big news here, in my view. The PSPGo is going, going, and...will it be gone? Inquiring minds would love to know...

They [Nintendo] found the golden ticket. Simple + Fun + Inexpensive

I agree. So do many, many millions of consumers. I have four DS Lites and a DSi. :)

[Anenome]

Basically Nintendo is suckering everyone into repeatedly buying the almost exact same hardware with minimal extra features, when I think the tech has advanced far enough for a more powerful handheld game system to enter the market.

Not sure about you but I think the fact that handheld graphics hit their peak with the TurboExpress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Express) by NEC in 1990 disappoints me.
- This is why companies keep making 'more powerful' handhelds and getting blown out of the water. You can't one-up the GBA/DS on technical specs and expect to survive in the handheld market. It's been tried, and died. Over and over and over. Of all the competitors, only perhaps the iPhone/touch has a chance of breaking into the market, and that only because it's main source of revenue isn't gaming. But that's also a major weakness. And Apple's control of the pricing system which currently demands sub $10 prices for any game will mean developers will stick with the DS for full-game offerings and make glorified flash games for the pod/touch.

Nintendo may simply have too much momentum with buyers and developers at this point for a new handheld to break in easily. Even the PSP ended up plagued with unoriginal, uninspired PS1 ports.
And what the hell Sony, hello, 2nd joystick, kthanxbai.

It doesn't happen often, but occasionally a company nails a product so perfectly that no other competitor has much if any chance of competing. And that description has defined the GB from the first release, and sustained it for decades. It's a breathtaking business achievement, and the cornerstone of Nintendo's financial security.

[Anenome]

Of course if Nintendo released another completely compatible DS which had a decent 3D chip built in, then developers and users could gradually evolve to the new, faster platform.
- The DSi has an improved 3D chip, as I recall. But, no doubt, it's not 'improved enough.' But, 3D is computationally demanding, and therefore power-hungry. Nintendo's precise metric of what is and isn't allowable dictates what goes in the machine. I'm sure they have a feature map for their handheld which extends at least a decade ahead, projecting power-density, performance/watt, and moore's law to show what their handheld will be able to do in the future and iterate towards that--always revising the map when some new technology breaks through.

[SwitchBlade_Jax]

Nintendo uses its handheld to continue the era of the Super Nintendo. Its a prime atmosphere of gaming that has a broad range of appeal, easy of play but depth of play as well, and its VERY social gaming. Nintendo its going "lets use that newest sparkle because its shinny", they aim for a price point and demographic of gaming that no one servers better than them. I love their design of the overall impact that they try to make the DS have.

[Syl]

The DSi has twice the processing power of the original DS and 8x the RAM, i believe.

[lockwoodx]

The only one close to competing with the DS is the GPX2 but not on a sales level... simply a user friendly level. It runs linux and all your favorite emulators. it's a hand held PC with out any limitations of DRM. If you don't have one I seriously suggest picking one up. It's only $150 on black friday sale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X_Wiz

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-d1-49-en-70-2z59.html

[altaraxic]

DS technology was old to begin with. There are constant additions to the library in terms of innovation however, which I believe keeps the machine running in Nintendo's, and the rest of the world's favor.

[see colon]

It's just boggling the mind that I think the new Iphone 3Gs might be technically more powerful than the DS's hardware.

What? The 3GS is more powerful than the Xbox (original) in alot of ways, and far exceeds that generation with it's feature set. In fact, it exceeds the requirements for DirectX10 (including PS/VS4.1), so it's feature set is beyond that of the PS3 or 360.

[DocOblivion]

It runs linux and all your favorite emulators. it's a hand held PC with out any limitations of DRM.

Thanks for this, lockwoodx! I'd been hearing about the GP2X devices for a long time now, never realizing that there was more to them than just being yet another handheld console. Worth looking into!

[drakkarim]

N has mastered the art of manipulating/milking the sheep effect ages ago. Personally i've hated all their hardware after the nes, but i wish them all the luck in the world with their mission to tatoo a big L on the forehead of as many people as possible.

[Syl]

N has mastered the art of manipulating/milking the sheep effect ages ago. Personally i've hated all their hardware after the nes, but i wish them all the luck in the world with their mission to tatoo a big L on the forehead of as many people as possible.
...and you call other people sheep? wow.

[Anenome]

N has mastered the art of manipulating/milking the sheep effect ages ago. Personally i've hated all their hardware after the nes, but i wish them all the luck in the world with their mission to tatoo a big L on the forehead of as many people as possible.
This is how to troll properly. Take note, ppl.

[Anenome]

What? The 3GS is more powerful than the Xbox (original) in alot of ways, and far exceeds that generation with it's feature set. In fact, it exceeds the requirements for DirectX10 (including PS/VS4.1), so it's feature set is beyond that of the PS3 or 360.
I find that hard to believe. I know it can't be a direct comparison. For one thing the resolution is vastly different. And secondly, I doubt it has as much memory as the current consoles. But it is a cool thing. Jobs is certainly trying to turn the iPhone into the world's first portable computer. The App store makes that intention plain.

[Hellstorm]

It's rumored that Nvidia knows exactly what is in the guts of the DS2.

[Anenome]

But, is the DSi XL actually what you are calling the DS2?

[Syl]

It's rumored that Nvidia knows exactly what is in the guts of the DS2.

Well yeah, it's supposed to be using an nvidia Tegra 2 chip. That's like saying "IBM knew exactly what was in the guts of the PS3!" or "ATi knew exactly what was in the guts of the Wii!" before it came out.

There is absolutely no surprise here.

[Anenome]

Just upgrading the DS stats into the DSi doesn't mean it's going to be marketed as the DS2. After all, the GB was never marketed with a numerical iteration.

As long as backwards-compatibility remains with all current DS games--a fact we can bet on--it won't be called *2 anything. It's just the DSi. It plays DSi only games, but also plays DS games. You can't go wrong if you have it.

I wonder about the larger screen though, is it actually a higher resolution or just a fatter dot-pitch?

[lockwoodx]

Thanks for this, lockwoodx! I'd been hearing about the GP2X devices for a long time now, never realizing that there was more to them than just being yet another handheld console. Worth looking into!

You're welcome. If Think Geek is carrying the Wiz, you know it has to be good.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/retro-gaming/bfc7/?source=google_home_electronics&cpg=oghe1

Retro Gaming Emulation Juggernaut

Normally this is the space where we would make some clever jokes and tell you why you might like to purchase this fine product. But in the case of this amazing GP2X Wiz pocket size gaming system we're cutting straight to the chase. If you are into retro gaming and have paid your rent this month you NEED to buy the GP2X Wiz now... like immediately... we're not joking. Because no where else will you find a handheld gaming system with emulators for so many game systems, computer platforms and consoles. Incredible MAME emulation allows you to run all your favorite arcade video game classics, even vector games. Amiga game emulation is rock solid. You can run Atari ST games, Commodore 64, NES, SNES, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, NeoGeo, Flash Games and more too numerous to mention. Of course you'll need to find yourself some game roms... but we have a feeling that's no problem for you and Google.
in hand

The Wiz can do a host of other useful things besides gaming. It can play video files including MPEG4, Xvid and DIVX. You get a built in e-book reader, calendar, voice recorder... etc... you know the drill. 1GB of storage is built-in and you can expand on this with the SD (SDHC) card slot. The high-res touchscreen makes navigation easy and the gaming controls feature a d-pad on the left with buttons/d-pad on the right and two shoulder buttons on the top. It's plenty good for anything a retro game can dish out. There is an active development community for the GP2X Wiz and with a respectable ARM9 533MHz Processor overclockable to 800Mhz you've got plenty of power to play with if you're interested to write your own applications.

Important Note
The Wiz does not come with any emulator software or game roms pre-installed. Out of the box you can play some built in Flash games, but that's it. You'll need to download the freeware emulator for the console or computer system you want to emulate. Then you'll need to unzip the emulator software, and copy it to an SD card along with some game roms you've downloaded. Then start-up the Wiz, go into the "launcher" option and run the emulator. Inside the emulator you'll choose the rom you want to load and then the game can begin. Each emulator software interface is a bit different and most give you the option to overclock the Wiz to get the best performance. Remember you are running emulator software... most games work perfectly, but some may run slow or be glitchy. You may have to configure the controls to work well with the game you want to play. Documentation is not always the best, so you might need to put in a bit of effort to figure things out. If any of this scares you, then you may want to reconsider your purchase.

Here is a great site where you can download all the emulators available for the Wiz as well as other homebrew software. Please take a look at this before you buy.

[bean19]

I agree Nintendo has found a carrot that no one with cash can seem to deny throwing money at. At this rate everyone and their sister will own 4 versions of this ageing hardware. It's just boggling the mind that I think the new Iphone 3Gs might be technically more powerful than the DS's hardware.
Not "might". They definitely are better.

Even when the DS was launched, it was considered to be weak hardware unable to produce very good graphics. The PSP can play games that look like PS2 titles and now even it's once awesome visuals are looking poor in comparison to modern HD games.

Nintendo has learned to make products for the market rather than trying to make products that best their competitor's offerings. They make very reliable hardware that has outstanding first-party software support that can launch at a price low enough that parents can afford the handhelds. That's their entire strategy. . . making something that is affordable, reliable, and that is fun to play.

Now, could someone make an affordable, reliable, hendheld with enough first-party support to be desirable that one-ups the DS technologically? Yes, absolutely. However, this isn't an easy task. Developers do not want to make games for a console or handheld that does not have a large install base because they are not guaranteed a return on their funds. Thus a large amount of the initial titles must be made in-house or be heavily subsidized. Additionally, you have to find a way to launch at a price point similar to that of the DS even on launch day while paying for a much more expensive machine. . . better hardware costs more money. The PSP is doing well now, but the first two years of it's life were riddled with issues. . . poor reliability with missing pixels, poor support of video and music playback features that distinguish it from the DS, a very high price for a handheld, and almost no games that were fun to play.

So someone COULD do it. . . However, they'd now have to beat the current PSP in features, graphics, and cost too. At this point, the PSP is a fantastic offering (if you don't get the one that requires you to download everything so that you can't play used games) with a broad library, great features, and a decent price point.

There isn't any money in it for Nintendo.

[Anenome]

Worse still, the PSP had access to all those PS1 titles. Sony could've been smart and made the PSP actually PS1 compatible in some way, sparked a mini-revolution of nostalgia. You'd have people playing FFVII on it, portably, etc. But no. That would've taken care of 1st party support, and also installed base.

What continually has sunk Sony when it comes to gaming in the last half-decade is its insistence on cross-selling. That is, they keep trying to make their game business and movie and music business intersect at the nexus of their consoles. Thus, they made a PSP designed for movies and music. But games are far more profitable. And movies don't need yet another distribution system.

They believed their movie and music divisions gave them a competitive edge against MS and Nintendo who both don't own media companies. But it turns out the consumer could care less about movies and music in a console. MS survives without an HD movie capability, and the Wii without either. And I laughed heartily when I saw the PS3 racked along with the Bluray players at my local Best Buy.

[Dag-Sabot]

I can't believe how much fun I'm having with advance wars after all these years.

[JazGalaxy]

Worse still, the PSP had access to all those PS1 titles. Sony could've been smart and made the PSP actually PS1 compatible in some way, sparked a mini-revolution of nostalgia. You'd have people playing FFVII on it, portably, etc. But no. That would've taken care of 1st party support, and also installed base.

What continually has sunk Sony when it comes to gaming in the last half-decade is its insistence on cross-selling. That is, they keep trying to make their game business and movie and music business intersect at the nexus of their consoles. Thus, they made a PSP designed for movies and music. But games are far more profitable. And movies don't need yet another distribution system.

They believed their movie and music divisions gave them a competitive edge against MS and Nintendo who both don't own media companies. But it turns out the consumer could care less about movies and music in a console. MS survives without an HD movie capability, and the Wii without either. And I laughed heartily when I saw the PS3 racked along with the Bluray players at my local Best Buy.

you're absolutely right.

I think the funny thing about the new PS3 that nobody really notices is how much the redesigned it to look like a cheap game console instead of their luxurious piano/media center that they put out before. They realized that customers want a console that plays games. Not everything but.

[Anenome]

So we should be looking to see if Sony has learned anything when they unveil the PS4. For once they won't be able to introduce a new video-playing disc, so we don't have to worry about them putting a new expensive storage format on the machine, that old canard they were sure would guarantee success. That is a good omen, but only one possible problem area.

Next we'll see if they're pushing feature bloat again, with 6,000 different peripheral slots, that Tea&cakes so loves to tout, that no one ever uses.

Then we have to see if they try to remain backwards compatible to the Cell, and if they choose another proprietary CPU for the PS4. This is a HUGE sticking point which I'm sure will produce endless debate within Sony. No doubt, if Kutaragi hadn't been fired there'd probably be another Cell chip in there, but I expect Sony to moderate on this. The cell alone sunk the console so far into the red it'll never get out. And its ability to function in other products has proved completely lackluster. It was put into some TVs and used for some middling scientific work, but it has major weaknesses. For instance, hard-core science won't touch it because it lacks the ability to do double-precision floating point calcs--a 'must have' in that realm.

And you're right, the PS3slim looks far cheaper. Part of that is just cost cutting. But they did swallow their pride and go with a far less expensive plastic. That shiny plastic they use on the PS3 regular model is actually fairly high-end as far as plastics go. It's actually somewhat translucent, and a smoky gray/brown color, when viewed from inside I hear.

Frankly, I am very bullish on Sony's new motion-control system. I think it's the best of the bunch and am rooting for them on this one. It's like, "Please don't f-up the console, because your motion control rocks."

Oftentimes a company that experiences this sort of market failure takes some time to soul-search and then comes back to the market with something that is pure win, pure genius, much as the Wii was for Nintendo. Next generation may well be Sony's best generation ever, even topping the PS2 if they nail the console itself.

And for god's sake, come in under $350.