High-Definition: Best Resolution for Gaming?

[Kamalot]

With all the talk of HDTV and the next round of upcoming consoles, one has to wonder what the best resolution for gaming is.

HDBeat.com has a great article up (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/02/21/major-nelson-asks-whats-best-for-gaming-720p-1080i-or-1080p/) about the different resolutions and what it means for gamers.

They state that higher resolutions such as 1080i and 1080p only run in 30 framer-per-second while 720p and 480p both run in 60 frames-per-second. 30 frames a second is just fine for movies, but as gamers we usually require the fastest possible systems for our action and twitch-based games.

The article also calls into question the PS3's required HDMI connection, pointing out that even TV's manufactured by Sony often don't support 1080P. With Sony's track record of over-promising and under delivering and the confusion of resolutions and formats, the article remains skeptical until Sony can show off the goods. Even then, what good is 1080P gaming if it is twice as jerky as 720P or even 480P?

What do you have or plan on getting for your gaming setup? Is HDTV worth it at this point in the game before we know about all 3 consoles and their capabilities?

[overdrivechao]

hook it up to a CRT. cheaper than an HDTV, just bulky. Seriously, though, the PS3 has some actual forward thinking technology instead of building a gaming pc/console with existing components. It's one of the reasons I'm holding out for it.

[Taco]

1600x1200 or it's wide screen equivalent. TV gaming has a long way to go.

[XenonCJ]

Best Resolution:
100 foot screen - 16,000,000,000,000,000x9,000,000,000,000,000 progressive at 10,000 FPS, in 2048bit color.

[Zanzibar]

I'm looking for a 720p-native 26"-30" HDTV as a 'step-up' TV before I make my giant-screen purchase (40+ inch) when the prices come down further. I still won't have HD cable or anything for a while yet - just the X360 so far. Hell, I don't even want to upgrade away from DVDs yet.

[Grifter]

Major Nelson (http://www.majornelson.com/) just did an entire show (http://media.majornelson.com/blogcast/2006/feb/mnr-2-19-06-163-thehdtvone-mp3.mp3) (*right click & save as) on this subject. Very informative.

We are not gonna see any game rendered natively at 1080p on the PS3.
The consoles 1080p output will be used for Blu-ray movies even then most of those will be 720p then upscaled. Native 1080p support I think is quite a few years out.

[phantomhitman]

Funny how a hdtv is almost required to play the ps3. I know more and more are coming to the market, but what if you do not have hdmi inputs? Surely they will have an adapter for vga, svideo, and components........surely.

[dotbomb]

All I know is I won't pick my TV based on gaming. I'll pick it based on what type of HD content is available and right now it seems 720p is the winner. But who knows what will happen in a year or two.

Amazingly enough no showroom I have gone into yet wants to show me current broadcast content on a 1080i or 1080p set... go figure.

[ruprect]

I've been researching this a lot lately and am on the fence between just getting a 720p and waiting for 1080p to settle into the market. At the screen size I'm looking at, 50", I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two (enough to justify the price jump anyway). If I was getting something larger than 55" I would definitely wait for the 1080p stuff to evolve. Waiting in the HD market at the rate technology advances and competition are coming is only a benefit, and one great thing that 1080p does is push down the price of the 720p stuff.

So, I'll probably wait till after summer for the prices to fall more then get a 50" 720p.

[Grifter]

Funny how a hdtv is almost required to play the ps3. I know more and more are coming to the market, but what if you do not have hdmi inputs? Surely they will have an adapter for vga, svideo, and components........surely.

I am sure the PS3 will have component, composite and VGA outputs. All Blu-ray players not just PS3's will require an HDMI input to display a "true" HD picture. I think HD-DVD players will have the same requirements.

[bapenguin]

The problem is there is no 1080p. There's no standard. No nothing. There's 1080p/30, 1080p/60, 1080p/54 etc. There may be a 60 FPS 1080p, but it's not the standard yet. Too early too tell. 720p is ideal for fast motion type stuff like sports and video games. 1080i is great for your everyday TV show or Discovery special.

[Amalor]

please don't flame on me if this seems really stupid because I am really curious. Why do we need HD resolution for better graphics? I can watch a movie on my currant TV and the CG looks great and small text is rather easy to read, untill games look as good as movie CG why change resolution? Can you not render in high resolution and port it down? What am I missing here? I do recognise higher resolution looks better because more pixels make the image etc, but why do console images need higher resolution when they don't match the clarity of, say a Pixar CG film on the same TV?

-Cheers
-Amalor

[Zanzibar]

Anyone have recommendations for a 720p 16:9 HDTV 26-30 inches or so? I'm trying to avoid those TVs that 'upscale' the image and would rather go for a 720p-native TV.

Oh. And would also like to spend less than $1000. Preferably much less.

[Kamalot]

Funny how a hdtv is almost required to play the ps3. I know more and more are coming to the market, but what if you do not have hdmi inputs? Surely they will have an adapter for vga, svideo, and components........surely.
Not likely. PS3 is intended to be a Bluray Trojan Horse. As such, they will enforce HDMI for all High-Definition content. HDMI has the ability to use digital-rights management to make sure you aren't copying the signal. Sony also makes moveis and is deeply paranoid.

If you play Bluray movies and don't use the HDMI connector, the signal will be downgraded so it is better than DVD but not as good as 720P.

Sucks for everyone who already has an HDTV without an HDMI connector.

[Zanzibar]

please don't flame on me if this seems really stupid because I am really curious. Why do we need HD resolution for better graphics? I can watch a movie on my currant TV and the CG looks great and small text is rather easy to read, untill games look as good as movie CG why change resolution? Can you not render in high resolution and port it down? What am I missing here? I do recognise higher resolution looks better because more pixels make the image etc, but why do console images need higher resolution when they don't match the clarity of, say a Pixar CG film on the same TV?

-Cheers
-Amalor

Well, for lack of a better example, if you've got a first-person-shooter game where there's a sniper at 150 yards away who's plugging at you, you have a better chance of seeing him at HD resolution than you do at normal resolution. At 480i (standard res), the guy might only be 4 pixels, whereas at 720p, he could be much larger screen size - almost twice as big. More detail equals better chance of seeing what you need to see.

[Kamalot]

please don't flame on me if this seems really stupid because I am really curious. Why do we need HD resolution for better graphics? I can watch a movie on my currant TV and the CG looks great and small text is rather easy to read, untill games look as good as movie CG why change resolution? Can you not render in high resolution and port it down? What am I missing here? I do recognise higher resolution looks better because more pixels make the image etc, but why do console images need higher resolution when they don't match the clarity of, say a Pixar CG film on the same TV?

-Cheers
-Amalor

You know, this is a really good point. I'm all for having additional pixels in my game, but games have a LONG way to go before they look as good as a DVD, even in Standard Definition.

For as much effort as companies are putting into realism, adding resolution to the game without nailing the realism, lighting, motion and clipping is just going to make the faults stand out more clearly.

Clipping is my biggest issue with games. If you are going to put all this effort into making games look real, you better make damn sure that objects aren't passing through each other. That destroys the illusion faster than the zombie-like stares of players in madden.

[GrinR]

I messed with this a lot when I got my rig set up. My Sony Bravia 40" LCD will run up to 1080i, and I switched back and forth (and checked with the TV info to make sure) between 720 and 1080i playing PDZ. PDZ has some serious tearing issues that I can make happen on my screen at will, and I noticed zero difference between 720 and 1080. I thought 1080 was sharper, but really I don't know if I would notice in a blind test.

I hate tearing.

[Amalor]

You know, this is a really good point. I'm all for having additional pixels in my game, but games have a LONG way to go before they look as good as a DVD, even in Standard Definition.

For as much effort as companies are putting into realism, adding resolution to the game without nailing the realism, lighting, motion and clipping is just going to make the faults stand out more clearly.

Clipping is my biggest issue with games. If you are going to put all this effort into making games look real, you better make damn sure that objects aren't passing through each other. That destroys the illusion faster than the zombie-like stares of players in madden.

Exactly, there must be some tech limitation I don't understand.. for example why have we setteled on 32 bit color as the ceiling? Can we produce 64-bit color? what would it add? Do we need to take a good look at 3-D card tech and decide if we have setted for faster as opposed to inovation.

-Cheers
-Amalor

[Crenor]

1600x1200 or it's wide screen equivalent. TV gaming has a long way to go.

1080p is 1920x1080

Also i (1080i) is 30fps and p (1080p) is 60, is it not?

[Mortis]

I have a Sony CRT/Tube Wega HDTV and I love it. Image quality on the 360 is much much better on my tv compared to my dad's 50" Hitachi LCD projection. The odd thing is video material looks as good or sometimes a tiny bit better on his tv. We just bought a 50" plasma for our conference room at work and although I have not seen the 360 on it (yet :D) I did see some HD video and I still think my image quality is much better. My tv does weigh as much as a casket+body and is like 3 foot deep though.

If you have room for it and don't mind having something in the 34" - 36" range I think the tubes offer some of, if not the best, image quality out there at a decent price.

[Serapth]

Sucks for everyone who already has an HDTV without an HDMI connector.

Even though mine has a HDMI connector, I can say it really isnt that big of deal. HDMI requirements ( and HDCP security ) has already been cracked. THere is a box thingy you can buy already that strips the encryption requirements from the signal allowing you to play( or record) the content on any device you want.

Once again, its proof how this draconian copy protection shit doesnt work and just ends up fucking over the legit consumers. Even the best copy protection in the end just becomes an annoyance.

Part that pisses me off is the HDMI isnt pin compatible with DVI, which was just teh suck!. So, if your say, DVB box only has DVI out, your stuck forking out even more money for an adapter, or you are using composites.

[Mortis]

I messed with this a lot when I got my rig set up. My Sony Bravia 40" LCD will run up to 1080i, and I switched back and forth (and checked with the TV info to make sure) between 720 and 1080i playing PDZ. PDZ has some serious tearing issues that I can make happen on my screen at will, and I noticed zero difference between 720 and 1080. I thought 1080 was sharper, but really I don't know if I would notice in a blind test.

I hate tearing.

I did the same with PD0 (720p/1080i test) but I thought 1080i looked quite a bit better on my screen as did PGR3 at 1080i.

[Deathbane27]

To the original thread topic: Um... what the crap?

(Almost?) every Xbox360 game runs at 30fps anyway.

[Zanzibar]

My tv does weigh as much as a casket+body and is like 3 foot deep though.


Someone named Mortis knows how much a casket and a body weighs. I'm all of a sudden very concerned.

[Grifter]

I could be wrong but I think that tearing is caused when you run it at 1080i the refresh rate is 30hz and the game wants to run at 60fps. At 1080i the tv can't keep up with how fast the game is running therefore causing the tearing. PC's and most games have V-sync wich limits the FPS to that of the refresh rate of the tv or moniter

[Serapth]

I did the same with PD0 (720p/1080i test) but I thought 1080i looked quite a bit better on my screen as did PGR3 at 1080i.

You both realize that your TV itself determines this. It is either 720p native or 1080i native, not both ( unless its an older lightgun style ). It will look best in whatever native mode it supports, as the non native mode is resampled from the native mode.

[krackmonkey]

The odd thing is video material looks as good or sometimes a tiny bit better on his tv.

That's likely due to the 360 having notably poor dvd playback quality issues. I'm hoping they can resolve this via a firmware upgrade, as it breaks my heart that my $400 game machine is upstaged by my $59 crap DVD player in its' current configuration. Not to bash on my 360, it's still the bees knees, I just wish it performed better with DVD's.

[Mortis]

Someone named Mortis knows how much a casket and a body weighs. I'm all of a sudden very concerned.

heh. Seriously though we had to take it down a flight of stairs when I bought it which was bad enough, but moving it upstairs a while back was hell.

[Mortis]

That's likely due to the 360 having notably poor dvd playback quality issues. I'm hoping they can resolve this via a firmware upgrade, as it breaks my heart that my $400 game machine is upstaged by my $59 crap DVD player in its' current configuration. Not to bash on my 360, it's still the bees knees, I just wish it performed better with DVD's.

You are correct about the DVD quality of the 360, but I was talking about HD cable video quality on his TV vs. mine. My Pioneer DVD player runs laps around the 360's DVD image quality, I was pretty disappointed also since I have to share that component input between the two.

[GrinR]

I could be wrong but I think that tearing is caused when you run it at 1080i the refresh rate is 30hz and the game wants to run at 60fps. At 1080i the tv can't keep up with how fast the game is running therefore causing the tearing. PC's and most games have V-sync wich limits the FPS to that of the refresh rate of the tv or moniter

I repeat: no difference at all between 720 and 1080i in regards to tearing. Both in PDZ and Madden. Oddly enough, Call of Duty has no such problems, nor do most of the other games.

[Zanzibar]

heh. Seriously though we had to take it down a flight of stairs when I bought it which was bad enough, but moving it upstairs a while back was hell.

The TV, or the casket and body??

/rimshot

[Serapth]

That's likely due to the 360 having notably poor dvd playback quality issues. I'm hoping they can resolve this via a firmware upgrade, as it breaks my heart that my $400 game machine is upstaged by my $59 crap DVD player in its' current configuration. Not to bash on my 360, it's still the bees knees, I just wish it performed better with DVD's.

Are you serious? I have a fairly good ( but old non progressive scan ) dvd player, and frankly its collecting dust now. The quality of the 360 combined with the fact it came with a remote, has me using it as my DVD player. No complaints from me sofar.

[Mortis]

I have only seen tearing in the Madden 06 demo, this is with my 360 always set to 1080i. Every other game has displayed none for me.

[Mortis]

The TV, or the casket and body??

/rimshot

The casket and body. ;)

[Grifter]

I repeat: no difference at all between 720 and 1080i in regards to tearing. Both in PDZ and Madden. Oddly enough, Call of Duty has no such problems, nor do most of the other games.

Then it's the either the TV itself causing the problem and it wont matter what resolution you have it at (unlikely) or the game and again the actual resolution has nothing to do with it so again there is nothing that can be done.

I think once we get passed the "rushed" games we will start to see a bigger differance in the resolutions for the better.

[bapenguin]

To the original thread topic: Um... what the crap?

(Almost?) every Xbox360 game runs at 30fps anyway.

Source please.

[phantomhitman]

1080p is 1920x1080

Also i (1080i) is 30fps and p (1080p) is 60, is it not?

I thought it was the other way
1080p is progressive so it displays 30 fps
1080i is interlaced and has to show 2 frames per second, therefore being 60fps

However, this is the refresh for the tv, and has nothing to do with the game framerate. Bigger resolution is better just because it is, but the new hd era is not structured enough to take true advatage of it. People are using content all over the (480, 720), there are no dvd/blurays with hd movie content, there is still a struggle over connection methods, and hdmi is not even finalized as a connector. The best thing we have so far is xbox 360 and the discovery channel.....

[crashedout]

The comparison between dvd and 3d games is not really fair. DVD's are sampled from film which has motion blur which helps hide the pixel structure. On most HDTV's the DVD's signal is upsampled to 720 or 1080i as well, further blurring the limitations of 480. Having never seen 1080p gaming I cannot say if it will look bad limited to 30fps or not.

If you are comparing 720p to 1080i via the 360's dashboard you are merely comparing the scaler in the 360 to the one in your tv. In my case the 360 is much better at scaling but my tv is three years old.

You should consider gaming when you buy an hdtv, again due to scaling. Some scalers suck at gaming and introduce audio and video issues.

The 360 sucks at DVD playback, it should be very good due to ATI's experience but it seems all those neat features are not enabled, either by choice or hardware. I have compared to three other DVD players, all destroy it via component inputs. That may not be the case via svideo. The xbox and ps2 suck in this regard too, jack of all trades-->master of none.

[51|RandoM]

Are you serious? I have a fairly good ( but old non progressive scan ) dvd player, and frankly its collecting dust now. The quality of the 360 combined with the fact it came with a remote, has me using it as my DVD player. No complaints from me sofar.

...that is because it was an ancient non-progressive scan player. Apples to oranges, in other words.

I think it has been about 7-8 years since progressive scan dvd players came out at reasonable prices.

[Serapth]

Source please.

http://www.OutOfHisAss.com/XBox360BS.html

[RMan]

At 480i (standard res), the guy might only be 4 pixels, whereas at 720p, he could be much larger screen size - almost twice as big. More detail equals better chance of seeing what you need to see.
A bit nitpicky, but this is somewhat misleading, the screen size won't be any bigger, the number of pixels will (IOW, he's not twice as big, but twice as sharp). The second sentence is more accurate though.

[Serapth]

...that is because it was an ancient non-progressive scan player. Apples to oranges, in other words.

I think it has been about 7-8 years since progressive scan dvd players came out at reasonable prices.

Not quite! I would say the system I have is 3 - 4 years old tops. ( Bought my HD tv a couple years later for so p scan meant jack to me at the time ). I would say it wasnt until the last year or so when you didnt pay a pretty good premium for a progressive scan DVD player. Only recently has it become the standard. Its been available for quite a while, but it hasnt been cheap for all that long!

[Kamalot]

To the original thread topic: Um... what the crap?

(Almost?) every Xbox360 game runs at 30fps anyway.
The article mentions DOA4 and NBA 2K6 running at 60fps and only mentions PGR locked to 30.

[bapenguin]

I thought it was the other way
1080p is progressive so it displays 30 fps
1080i is interlaced and has to show 2 frames per second, therefore being 60fps


1080p has both 30 and 60 modes as well as a 24 mode which would be ideal for film (no frame correction then). It's all still up in the air though which one becomes "official" or if all of them do.

[Zeal]

You're not gonna see 1080p games with the next-generation of game consoles. Neither system has enough memory to run them at playable framerates.

[Swiper]

Check out this review from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=125).

The 360 is actually not a bad DVD player at all.

[Kamalot]

http://www.OutOfHisAss.com/XBox360BS.html
LMAO!
I was trying to go to the site! :eek:

[Babbster]

...that is because it was an ancient non-progressive scan player. Apples to oranges, in other words.

I think it has been about 7-8 years since progressive scan dvd players came out at reasonable prices.
Absolutely. And, also, the PS2 was cheaper than any DVD player when it came out.
/sarcasm

[Steele Johnson]

I don't understand all the hoopla about HD support. Even the original xbox supports 480p/720p/1080i, and it really doesn't make all that much of a difference. The games aren't more fun, that's for sure. I've got a few that support 720p, and running them on my 42" plasma is just a slight bonus, IMO. I wish these companies would just focus more on processing speed, optimizations, and the sdk. All these delays are based on the bells and whistles that we really don't need, and all of that is going to delay the release of the killer games that should be shipping with the console.

Sony has been digging their own grave for the past few years, and this has to be the icing on the cake. If they lose the console battle, then they have lost big time, considering that they're starting to lose in other categories as well (tv's, mp3 players, computers, etc). I remember the day when I always looked at Sony first when buying electronics, but I don't even look anymore.

[Sl1pstream]

LMAO!
I was trying to go to the site! :eek:

Same here.

[Kamalot]

I don't understand all the hoopla about HD support. Even the original xbox supports 480p/720p/1080i, and it really doesn't make all that much of a difference. The games aren't more fun, that's for sure.

Sony has been digging their own grave for the past few years, and this has to be the icing on the cake.

More Pixels ≠ More Fun

[krackmonkey]

Check out this review from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=125).

The 360 is actually not a bad DVD player at all.

Wow, that was pretty interesting. Thanks for the link to those benchmarks. This, of course, means I'm now faced with the grim prospect of renting Video Essentials and recalibrating the bastard. Still, I'd love to get better results than I currently have, so it's a win-win scanario, I guess.

[Deathbane27]

http://www.OutOfHisAss.com/XBox360BS.html

Absolutely correct! :D Well, kind of. The actual URL is

http://OutOfKathodesAss.com/SeniorProducerOfOblivion/SoTheCrapFromHisAss/IsLemonScented.html (http://www.waiting4oblivion.com/developer_quotes6.html#kathode08)

It's 30 just like every other 360 launch title as far as I know. PGR3, Kameo, Perfect Dark, Madden all run at 30.
(Actually, the fake link goes to http://www.waiting4oblivion.com/developer_quotes6.html#kathode08 )


Supporting websites:

Madden 06:
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/10/27/a-closer-look-at-madden-360/

PGR3:
http://www.deafgamers.com/05reviews_a/pgr3_xbox360.htm
http://www.nlgaming.com/nl/asp/id_1302/nl/reviewDisp.htm

Perfect Dark Zero:
http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1072/Perfect-Dark-Zero/p4/
http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=4821

Wasn't able to find anything clear on Kameo's FPS. Apparently no one cares on single-player/co-op games? :p

And it turns out Call of Duty 2 gets 60fps, apparently.



So, anyway... yeah, I was wrong, but hopefully I can be redeemed by it being a majority instead of almost all? Crucify me if you want, but objects pulled from Kathode's ass are still lemon-scented. ;)

[Schnoogs]

More Pixels ≠ More Fun

Everyone knows that a funny movie is just as funny on VHS as it is on DVD. Added resolution isn't going to change the dialogue or the storyline BUT it does make the viewing experience more enjoyable.

There is something to be said about stimulating the senses to their fullest.

In the case of games it may help with the suspension of disbelief or in the case of shooters it makes the difference between spotting the sniper or not.

[AntB]

Assasin, suspention of disbelief takes a dive when you see that sniper sitting halfway inside a wall or hovering a foot above the floor. In all of 1080p's beauty.

Better not seeing him at all and getting closer to him. Then seeing all of the imperfections of the next generation in all their glory.

[Zanzibar]

A bit nitpicky, but this is somewhat misleading, the screen size won't be any bigger, the number of pixels will (IOW, he's not twice as big, but twice as sharp). The second sentence is more accurate though.

Absolutely correct. Thank you.

[Kamalot]

Everyone knows that a funny movie is just as funny on VHS as it is on DVD. Added resolution isn't going to change the dialogue or the storyline BUT it does make the viewing experience more enjoyable.

There is something to be said about stimulating the senses to their fullest.

In the case of games it may help with the suspension of disbelief or in the case of shooters it makes the difference between spotting the sniper or not.
The point is, that there are many, and more effective ways to help with the suspension of disbelief rather than adding pixels.

Ever notice how characters feet seem to 'float' over the ground, as if they were skating around instead of actually running across the surface? How about momentum, how characters can turn on a dime? Don't even get me started on clipping. Even in the advanced, target-rendered PS3 videos, you can see instances of clipping problems. DOA4 has it too where hair passes through clothes.

There are many, many ways to improve the realism of games, with better lighting models, clipping detection, physics and more, all without adding a single pixel to the screen.

When more pixels are available, it takes a substantial increase in power to fill the screen without fixing any of the other problems that prevent the suspension of disbelief. It also highlights other problems with 3D games with greater clarity.

When 'physical' objects in the game pass through one another, it does not matter how many pixels are on the screen, or how many bump maps something has. If it looks wrong, all the high definition in the world won't cover up the flaws, they'll just highlight them.

[Megalith]

The best resolution is the highest resolution. Who even asks these questions.

30 frames a second is just fine for movies, but as gamers we usually require the fastest possible systems for our action and twitch-based games.

Oh yes, we gamers are just so elite.

[Kamalot]

The best resolution is the highest resolution. Who even asks these questions.
I do.

Please try cranking your PC games up to the highest resolution. What happens? Frame rate goes down. But that must be best, no?

You can either have the game runing at the highest possible resolution, or you can have games running at a modest resolution with extra fluidity, effects, quality, and anti-aliasing.

I want quality and fluidity. You want resolution.

[Megalith]

Nah, your PC just whack.

[rjcc]

deathbane - I think COD2 DOA4 and NBA 2K6 all ran at 60 fps (and probably NHL 2K6 in that case), ran at 60fps, as noted in the original article.

[51|RandoM]

Not quite! I would say the system I have is 3 - 4 years old tops. ( Bought my HD tv a couple years later for so p scan meant jack to me at the time ). I would say it wasnt until the last year or so when you didnt pay a pretty good premium for a progressive scan DVD player. Only recently has it become the standard. Its been available for quite a while, but it hasnt been cheap for all that long!


I didn't say cheap, I said reasonable. :-) If you want cheap gear, then you'll get what you pay for, quite honestly.

I paid less than $400 for a really good progressive player way back in 2000.

Anyways, the first progressive player appeared in 1999 and was $800. Sub-$500 players showed up in 2000.

[Kamalot]

Nah, your PC just whack.
I am glad that you are so fortunate as to have a PC that can handle the most demanding games at the highest resolutions, with all of the effects and anti-aliasing turned up. You are either very wealthy to afford such a rig, have your priorities squarely focused on gaming spending more on hardware than your peers, or are being less than truthful about your PC's capabilities. I prefer to think it is not the latter.

[Intruder]

I just picked up a 360 this week and bought the HD/VGA cables with it. I have it hooled up to my PC's Samsung 930b LCD monitor. The picture is very sharp running at 1080x1024 res. Does this equal 720p?

Anyways i am enjoyng CoD2 very much the textures of peoples faces, the cuts nicks and scratches all are easily visible. The game looks better than anything on my PC that I can think of. Very happy with my setup, now if I would only order that KVM switch i wouldnt have to keep swapping my monitor cable between the 360 and my PC :)

[Zeal]

Who even plays anything other than World of Warcraft on PC, anyway.

[XenonCJ]

I do.

Please try cranking your PC games up to the highest resolution. What happens? Frame rate goes down. But that must be best, no?

You can either have the game runing at the highest possible resolution, or you can have games running at a modest resolution with extra fluidity, effects, quality, and anti-aliasing.

I want quality and fluidity. You want resolution.Like the man said, the highest resolution is the best _RESOLUTION_.

[XenonCJ]

I am glad that you are so fortunate as to have a PC that can handle the most demanding games at the highest resolutions, with all of the effects and anti-aliasing turned up. You are either very wealthy to afford such a rig, have your priorities squarely focused on gaming spending more on hardware than your peers, or are being less than truthful about your PC's capabilities. I prefer to think it is not the latter.Man you have issues dude. How the hell can you come up with that much bullshit about his quick jibe at you?? LOL

[Schnoogs]

The point is, that there are many, and more effective ways to help with the suspension of disbelief rather than adding pixels.

Ever notice how characters feet seem to 'float' over the ground, as if they were skating around instead of actually running across the surface? How about momentum, how characters can turn on a dime? Don't even get me started on clipping. Even in the advanced, target-rendered PS3 videos, you can see instances of clipping problems. DOA4 has it too where hair passes through clothes.

There are many, many ways to improve the realism of games, with better lighting models, clipping detection, physics and more, all without adding a single pixel to the screen.

When more pixels are available, it takes a substantial increase in power to fill the screen without fixing any of the other problems that prevent the suspension of disbelief. It also highlights other problems with 3D games with greater clarity.

When 'physical' objects in the game pass through one another, it does not matter how many pixels are on the screen, or how many bump maps something has. If it looks wrong, all the high definition in the world won't cover up the flaws, they'll just highlight them.

You're so right...I'm now playing games at 320x200.

What the heck was I thinking...this rules!!

[FooManLinux]

I know it's been stated but I would like to link proof just so every one is aware. 1080p is 60 Hz or 60 frames per second. 1080i is also 60 frames per second but since only half the horizontal lines are shown per frame; you only effectively get 30 full (1920x1080) frames per second. I just wish that one would double check their sources and knowledge before spouting off incorrect information. When first reading that 1080p was only 30 fps, I was shocked. I was pretty sure it was 60fps but though may be I was wrong. Leading me to re-research this topic. Here is a link.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dtv3.htm
If the link is removed it is a topic on the how stuff works website about HD formats. Now will the ps3 be able to run games at 1080p at 60fps all the time. Highly doubt it, but the main focus here is the 1080p format allows up to 60fps, and I high doubt you would notice anything higher. Also as long as a game stays above 30fps gamers are generally happy, save twitchy games like halo.
That being said, and also the fact that I am a pc gamer, I hope that developers will develop games to run at 1080p because to be honest im not really impressed with 720p (1280x720). I quite often run games on my computer at 1280x1024, if I had a bit more money I would run at 1600x1200.
:D

[Schnoogs]

That being said, and also the fact that I am a pc gamer, I hope that developers will develop games to run at 1080p because to be honest im not really impressed with 720p (1280x720). I quite often run games on my computer at 1280x1024, if I had a bit more money I would run at 1600x1200.

720p looks great on displays like Plasma, rear or front DLP, rear CRT.

Yeah 720p is low res on the PC but when I play 720p on my DLP projector at 120" believe me when I say...noone complains! ;)

[mig]

I've been researching this a lot lately and am on the fence between just getting a 720p and waiting for 1080p to settle into the market. At the screen size I'm looking at, 50", I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two (enough to justify the price jump anyway). If I was getting something larger than 55" I would definitely wait for the 1080p stuff to evolve. Waiting in the HD market at the rate technology advances and competition are coming is only a benefit, and one great thing that 1080p does is push down the price of the 720p stuff.

So, I'll probably wait till after summer for the prices to fall more then get a 50" 720p.

Might I suggest getting a Panny 50" plasma, does 720p natively. I currently own the 50PHD7UY model, they've refreshed the line and put out the 50PHD8UK since. The xbox 360 looks great on it, and the tv is fully upgradeable for future connectors. (Modular blades in back). Did plenty of research before spending the cash, the panny seems to be the best bang for the buck. Haven't regretted the purchase.

[rjcc]

Fooman - just to update, that link is not entirely correct. At this point AFAIK there is still no 1080p60 broadcast standard, and most equipment, even those listed as 1080p, doen't accept it, there are a couple TV's that do.

google 1080p60 or check it on wikipedia or the threads on avsforums.

I know it's been stated but I would like to link proof just so every one is aware. 1080p is 60 Hz or 60 frames per second. 1080i is also 60 frames per second but since only half the horizontal lines are shown per frame; you only effectively get 30 full (1920x1080) frames per second. I just wish that one would double check their sources and knowledge before spouting off incorrect information. When first reading that 1080p was only 30 fps, I was shocked. I was pretty sure it was 60fps but though may be I was wrong. Leading me to re-research this topic. Here is a link.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dtv3.htm
If the link is removed it is a topic on the how stuff works website about HD formats. Now will the ps3 be able to run games at 1080p at 60fps all the time. Highly doubt it, but the main focus here is the 1080p format allows up to 60fps, and I high doubt you would notice anything higher. Also as long as a game stays above 30fps gamers are generally happy, save twitchy games like halo.
That being said, and also the fact that I am a pc gamer, I hope that developers will develop games to run at 1080p because to be honest im not really impressed with 720p (1280x720). I quite often run games on my computer at 1280x1024, if I had a bit more money I would run at 1600x1200.
:D

[Bumbuliuz]

I have a Samsung 32" Lcd tv that Ms seems to love. And me too ;) It has 2xscarts, 1xs-video, 1xcomposite, 1xcomponent, 1xvga and 1xHdmi connector. The native rez is 1366x768 witch is why I bought it. Perfect for the 360's 720p. I only bought a HDTV for my Xbox 360 :)

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le32r41bxxeu.asp

[GrinR]

I have a Samsung 32" Lcd tv that Ms seems to love. And me too ;) It has 2xscarts, 1xs-video, 1xcomposite, 1xcomponent, 1xvga and 1xHdmi connector. The native rez is 1366x768 witch is why I bought it. Perfect for the 360's 720p. I only bought a HDTV for my Xbox 360 :)

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le32r41bxxeu.asp

Samsung makes the screens for the Sony LCDs as well. Go watch the Samsung screens next to the Bravia line - it's more about the shape of the case than the picture...

[NightRain]

I'd say get a HDTV and not worry about it too much. I have one and I totally love it. Its a Toshiba 57" 57HX84 16x9 RPTV and I couldn't ask for a better picture. Here are a couple examples and trust me it looks better than the pictures show.

HDTV Broadcast of Be Cool
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2960/tv4small8mx.jpg

Xbox Rallisport Challange 2
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/46/hpim0796small5bd.jpg

Gamecube RE4
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6991/hpim0782small0un.jpg

Xbox360 looks incredible, DVD's look incredible, HDTV Digital Cables looks incredible Xbox looks incredible, Gamecube looks incredible, hell even the PS2 looks great.

I considered a LCD Rear Projector and a DLP but didn't think the cost difference was justified since the quality on my Rear Projection CRT is stunning, esepcially in the night time. The sales guy who sold it to me was also very impressed by the quality after he saw it setup in my home after I tweaked it with my AVIA DVD setup program.

[rjcc]

Rallisport championship 2 was the first game that REALLY made me glad to have an HDTV. One of the best looking games ever.


For the most part i agree with the above, whatever you get, is going to look incredible, that said, at this point, you MUST buy a TV that supports HDMI, because otherwise you'll be mad later.

[NightRain]

agreed my first HDTV a Toshiba 50" 50H81 TV didn't have HDMI or DVI at all, this one has HDMI so I don't have any complaints, even though I don't use HDMI yet. I also like using Theatre View 2 on my system since it crops the stupid bars off the top and bottom of RE4 for the gamecube, I hate that they made it letterboxed and not true widescreen.

[Steele Johnson]

I like your setup, NightRain. Much preferred over sitting in front of a pc with your eyes 2 feet away from the screen. A killer speaker system, a nice recliner and/or sofa, and a mini fridge should wrap it all up nicely. :)

[Schnoogs]

I think it was the blue candles that sold me

[TheBrainKills]

720p ... 1080p is really a non-factor at this time. How many 1080p sets are out there? I guess if Sony is starting to market the PS3 as a computer alternative then they may have something. But as a console you are looking at maybe a HDTV market of 25% for this year maybe 1% is 1080p.

edit: by the way I pulled those percentages out of my ass, so please refer to that previous web page above for source material.

[Babbster]

I considered a LCD Rear Projector and a DLP but didn't think the cost difference was justified since the quality on my Rear Projection CRT is stunning, esepcially in the night time. The sales guy who sold it to me was also very impressed by the quality after he saw it setup in my home after I tweaked it with my AVIA DVD setup program.
CRT-based RPTVs are very underrated in this age of the flat panel. Personally, I think if you've got the room to spare, they're the best value out there. The fact that they don't have a fixed pixel resolution only helps in that you don't have to sweat about things like bizarre LCD and plasma resolutions - particularly annoying to me is the proliferation of 768p (usually 1365/1366 x 768) panels which, to me at least, look worse displaying HDTV signals than the 1280x720 displays.

My suggestion to anyone who asks my opinion about fixed-resolution displays is to get one with a native resolution exactly that of one of the HDTV standards - either 1280x720 or 1920x1080. Since most HDTV-compatible devices will output either 720p or 1080i, that means the worst-case scenario is that you "line-double" a 1080i signal. Technically speaking, that's a much easier process than scaling an HD signal to some other oddball/PC resolution.

[NightRain]

I think it was the blue candles that sold me
LOL, those belong to my woman, not me... haha

[NightRain]

I like your setup, NightRain. Much preferred over sitting in front of a pc with your eyes 2 feet away from the screen. A killer speaker system, a nice recliner and/or sofa, and a mini fridge should wrap it all up nicely. :)
I totally agree, when I use to console game on a 27" TV I use to PC game on a 19" monitor and I PC gamed a lot more. Now I have a 22" PC monitor and it can't compare to sitting on a comfy couch and gaming on a 57" screen with full 5.1 surround and lots of bass. My 4.1 Logitech Z-560 pc speakers sound great but my home theatre speakers destroy them. Console gaming has gotten so much better for me becuase of a big HDTV and 5.1 audio.

[NightRain]

CRT-based RPTVs are very underrated in this age of the flat panel. Personally, I think if you've got the room to spare, they're the best value out there. The fact that they don't have a fixed pixel resolution only helps in that you don't have to sweat about things like bizarre LCD and plasma resolutions - particularly annoying to me is the proliferation of 768p (usually 1365/1366 x 768) panels which, to me at least, look worse displaying HDTV signals than the 1280x720 displays.

My suggestion to anyone who asks my opinion about fixed-resolution displays is to get one with a native resolution exactly that of one of the HDTV standards - either 1280x720 or 1920x1080. Since most HDTV-compatible devices will output either 720p or 1080i, that means the worst-case scenario is that you "line-double" a 1080i signal. Technically speaking, that's a much easier process than scaling an HD signal to some other oddball/PC resolution.

Exactly, I personally can't think of any reason not to buy rear projection other than space. My TV is only 22' deep which isn't bad at all, becuase I pretty much have it tight to the wall it takes less than 24" total space, considering the average Entertainment stand is 18"-24" anyway I don't see the big deal. Your average sterero Receiver is 18" if not more so what does having a 4"-6" TV really accomplish. Everyone who sees my setup is impressed even people who have LCD's that cost about double the cost of my TV. Esepcially considered they 1366x768 resoultion thing. Some people complain about RPTV in high light areas, but thats why I have blinds. Sure LCD's look better with more light around but with my blinds drawn shut I have zero light issues and the picture looks amazing.

[Pumped'Up]

HD won't be mainstream until the PS3 arrives. THe problem with the 360 is that it supports but doesn't push HD - but it would have been different if it had a built in HD-DVD drive and supported 1080p.

[Pumped'Up]

As well, it's a real shame that the 360 can't even up-convert DVD to HD, while cheap DVD players that do support up-conversion can be had for $50. Garbage.

[rjcc]

HD won't be mainstream until the PS3 arrives. THe problem with the 360 is that it supports but doesn't push HD - but it would have been different if it had a built in HD-DVD drive and supported 1080p.


Supports but doesn't push?

o....k......

[Serapth]

HD won't be mainstream until the PS3 arrives. THe problem with the 360 is that it supports but doesn't push HD - but it would have been different if it had a built in HD-DVD drive and supported 1080p.


...

*blink*

Um...

Ok...

*blink*

What the fuck you talking bout willis?!?!?

[TheBrainKills]

HD won't be mainstream until the PS3 arrives. THe problem with the 360 is that it supports but doesn't push HD - but it would have been different if it had a built in HD-DVD drive and supported 1080p.



Ahhh ...well HD will be mainstream 2 years from now, and it will not be 1080p.
Plus most of the TV's now upconvert your DVD players now so its not really needed on the 360.

You really sound like you bought the sony PR.

[Grifter]

HD won't be mainstream until the PS3 arrives. THe problem with the 360 is that it supports but doesn't push HD - but it would have been different if it had a built in HD-DVD drive and supported 1080p.


http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6566/orlybaby8uu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[LilAbner]

hook it up to a CRT. cheaper than an HDTV, just bulky. Seriously, though, the PS3 has some actual forward thinking technology instead of building a gaming pc/console with existing components. It's one of the reasons I'm holding out for it.

Um....CRT doesn't necessarily mean it's not HDTV. I own a Samsung CRT 30" widescreen HDTV (yes, it weighs a ton). In fact, the cheapest HDTVs on the market are CRTs, often selling for $500 or less.

Regarding 1080p, very, VERY few HDTVs in people's homes support this, so I greet this with a great big *yawn*, especially if it's at the expense of framerate.

As for PS3, what are some forward thinking things that are in it?

[Steele Johnson]

Ahhh ...well HD will be mainstream 2 years from now, and it will not be 1080p.
Plus most of the TV's now upconvert your DVD players now so its not really needed on the 360.

You really sound like you bought the sony PR.

I agree. I really don't know what Pumped'Up is talking about. The 360 doesn't "push" HD? Wha?

The 360 supports HD. Period. Even my xbox 1.0 supports HD. If the PS3 is going to support 1080p output, then sure, it will be a bit better on a 1080p native tv (1920x1080). But since the 360 supports 1080i, and most HD tv's handle combining the interlaced frames into a progressive scan frame, the difference isn't going to be very much.

And that's not to mention that there aren't very many tv's out there with a native resolution of 1920x1080. More are coming, but you're going to pay a lot more for just a slight difference, IMO.

[LilAbner]

Anyone have recommendations for a 720p 16:9 HDTV 26-30 inches or so? I'm trying to avoid those TVs that 'upscale' the image and would rather go for a 720p-native TV.

Oh. And would also like to spend less than $1000. Preferably much less.

See my last post in this thread.....go for a Samsung 30" CRT (aka "tube) TV. Gorgeous picture HDTV that won't break your bank. I'd check out the reviews at CNET.com for specific models.

[Zeal]

Banned for "o rly". Goodbye.

[Steele Johnson]

As well, it's a real shame that the 360 can't even up-convert DVD to HD, while cheap DVD players that do support up-conversion can be had for $50. Garbage.

You can't upconvert a DVD to HD. DVD's are recorded at 480p. Some players can upconvert to 720p and 1080i, but it's not HD because it's being upcoverted from a lower resolution. You can't get a high resolution from low resolution.

[Pumped'Up]

And that's not to mention that there aren't very many tv's out there with a native resolution of 1920x1080. More are coming, but you're going to pay a lot more for just a slight difference, IMO.
In 1 year, 1080p will be on every HD monitor at your favourite local Walmart and will be similarly priced to current displays. Sony has the right plans for supporting this resolution as it will be far better off among the competition over the next 5 years. The 360's downfall is it's lack of 1080p support - old tech, already too soon.

[Grifter]

In 1 year, 1080p will be on every HD monitor at your favourite local Walmart and will be similarly priced to current displays. Sony has the right plans for supporting this resolution as it will be far better off among the competition over the next 5 years. The 360's downfall is it's lack of 1080p support - old tech, already too soon.

From reading that stupid post I am going to assume you didn't read either article that was posted or listen to the podcast that was linked. It will take much longer than 1 year for 1080p to become a natively supported resolution. Like Steele Johnson said upconversions are not the true resolution.

[Pumped'Up]

From reading that stupid post I am going to assume you didn't read either article that was posted or listen to the podcast that was linked. It will take much longer than 1 year for 1080p to become a natively supported resolution. Like Steele Johnson said upconversions are not the true resolution.
Clearly, you and Steele need to re-read my postings again.

You both are obviously confusing resolution with detail. Any signal at 720p or 1080i is an HD source. Obiviously the detail of DVDs at 480i won't look any more detailed at 1080i, but upconverting a DVD to an LCD's native resolution looks better than playback at a scaled and shitty 480i/p.

Dumb ass youngsters. sheesh.

[rjcc]

In 1 year, 1080p will be on every HD monitor at your favourite local Walmart and will be similarly priced to current displays. Sony has the right plans for supporting this resolution as it will be far better off among the competition over the next 5 years. The 360's downfall is it's lack of 1080p support - old tech, already too soon.


Ok okay, you're just a troll, nuff said.

[Megalith]

Actually, buying a Samsung CRT is the stupidest thing you could do. Samsung is just a cheap Korean company that uses poor power supplies, and your set will be plagued with geometry issues. Even their newer flat model CRTs have issues, particularly with the corners, since the tubes they integrated aren't suitable for wider screens.

Also, the Xbox 360 and Samsung LCDs happen to make a great couple, since both are cheaply made. Everyone knows that Sharp is the king of LCD.

[Grifter]

So your telling me that if you took a video at 640x480 and upscaled it to 1280x720 it would look as good as a video created natively at that resolution...your copletely full of shit. No one mentioned anything about 480i because the 360 plays back at 480p which is the lowest HD resolution but is still HD so I don't know where the hell your getting that 480i shit from. If your gonna troll a forum at least pick a topic that you know a little somthing about so you can't be provin wrong. A persons opinion when in a conversation dealing with facts is not worth shit.

We all know he is a troll. read his last 2 posts before in the other threads, he's just trying to piss someone off. He is not very good at it, kind of reminds me of a slightly retarded puppy trying to get it's masters attention because it knows it's life is nothing without the masters acknowledgement. What is even more pathetic is Megalith trying piggyback onto what he thinks pumped'up is gonna start. It would have been a valid (if not slightly misguiged) statement if not for the bullshit of the last sentence. If this is the best you two can do your parents must be very, very dissapointed.

ahhh poor little troll needs EvAv members to make him feel like less of a loser. some one give the ugly little things a treat, we don't wan't to hurt their feelings now.

[Megalith]

Too bad 480p ain't HD.

Why does everyone always have to be wrong.

[Zeal]

ahhh poor little troll needs EvAv members to make him feel like less of a loser. some one give the ugly little things a treat, we don't wan't to hurt their feelings now.

Too bad he's right and you're wrong. Boy, I bet you feel stupid now, huh, fucker.

Know your facts before attempting to degrade new members, otherwise suffer from an irreversible humiliation. http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

As we have just witnessed.


EDIT: Completely off topic. The new single from the band Angels & Airwaves is suprisingly good. This is especially unexpected, considering the band was formed by ex-Blink 182 vocalist Tom DeLonge. The new trio is working with a much more sophisticated soundscape, and I think it works, personally.

www.angelsandairwaves.com
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9264432/blink182_man_launches_angels

[Morratut]

I have a 32" Samsung LCD. Very happy with it.

720p or 1080i + Xbox 360 = gaming nirvana :) here and now in reality.

1080p + PS3 = vapourware. Lets see how it pans out in real life :rolleyes:

Thats all I have to say.

[MrMeatshake]

Too bad he's right and you're wrong. Boy, I bet you feel stupid now, huh, fucker.

i need to donate in order to ignore people like this, right?

[Achilles]

Too bad 480p ain't HD.I believe it's called EDTV. Stands for 'enhanced' definition or some such.

[Achilles]

Sony has the right plans for supporting this resolution as it will be far better off among the competition over the next 5 years.Do those plans include updating the firmware on their $5000 TV that came out about 7 months ago so that it supports a 1080p input? Because it really should. Sony's cutting edge missed a spot.

[bapenguin]

Clearly, you and Steele need to re-read my postings again.

You both are obviously confusing resolution with detail. Any signal at 720p or 1080i is an HD source. Obiviously the detail of DVDs at 480i won't look any more detailed at 1080i, but upconverting a DVD to an LCD's native resolution looks better than playback at a scaled and shitty 480i/p.

Dumb ass youngsters. sheesh.

Actually a lot of TV's internal scalers do a fine job for scaling that DVD to to the TV's native resolution. Most HDTVs don't run stuff at 480p, it's upconverted to 720p or 1080i by an internal scaler. It used to be a simple down and dirty line doubling method or some such, but now there some TVs that actually do some nice de-interlacing and such. Getting a $150 upconverting DVD player isn't changing anything, you are simply changing the object that is doing the scaling. To see any major difference with scaled stuff you need something like a DVDO iScan (http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp30.php).

[NightRain]

Actually, buying a Samsung CRT is the stupidest thing you could do. Samsung is just a cheap Korean company that uses poor power supplies, and your set will be plagued with geometry issues. Even their newer flat model CRTs have issues, particularly with the corners, since the tubes they integrated aren't suitable for wider screens.

Also, the Xbox 360 and Samsung LCDs happen to make a great couple, since both are cheaply made. Everyone knows that Sharp is the king of LCD.

Actually most Samsung CRT's have Sony parts in them. Its a fact, also AKAI is a cheap HD solution that is acutally also made by Samsung, a lot of the time an AKAI LCD will be avalible at a fraction of the cost of a Samsung but will usually have slightly lower contrast ratios and/or less inputs.

[bapenguin]

In 1 year, 1080p will be on every HD monitor at your favourite local Walmart and will be similarly priced to current displays. Sony has the right plans for supporting this resolution as it will be far better off among the competition over the next 5 years. The 360's downfall is it's lack of 1080p support - old tech, already too soon.

That's if they decide on a standard in that time frame.

[Kamalot]

Also, the Xbox 360 and Samsung LCDs happen to make a great couple, since both are cheaply made. Everyone knows that Sharp is the king of LCD.
Are you talking about the same Sharp that makes the PSP screens? You know, the ones with the awesome ghosting? The ones that come with the free, dead pixels?

Yeah! I love those Sharp screens.

[Steele Johnson]

Clearly, you and Steele need to re-read my postings again.

You both are obviously confusing resolution with detail. Any signal at 720p or 1080i is an HD source. Obiviously the detail of DVDs at 480i won't look any more detailed at 1080i, but upconverting a DVD to an LCD's native resolution looks better than playback at a scaled and shitty 480i/p.

Dumb ass youngsters. sheesh.

lol. Now you're even contradicting yourself. Dumb ass old man. :)

[overdrivechao]

As for PS3, what are some forward thinking things that are in it?

1. Kynapse 4.0, which will support the PlayStation 3, introduces technology called "Large scale A.I." The new technology is meant to address specific AI needs, such as existing algorithms limitations when dealing with large, detailed, terrains and huge numbers of NPCs; handling megabytes of AI data at runtime; getting NPCs to understand their environment topographically, and how to take advantage of the PS3 architecture. The Kynapse 4.0 A.I. data will include both 3D mesh and graph based descriptions, and its hierarchical structure will allow streaming and parallel computations. 3D pathfinding and perception algorithms have also been adapted to fit the new data model.

2. "So the way that the Cell processor works is that there is a pool of 16 or so of these (probably not completely identical) RISC or SIMD/VLIW cores on a single die. The system will do its processing by drawing resources from this pool on a task-specific basis. For instance, the audio processing subsystem will consist of a set of software routines that request cycles from the pool for the purpose of processing 3D audio. The 3D engine will similarly request cycles from the same pool for rendering, and similarly with the game AI system, etc. The different processing cores will probably be grouped together dynamically by software into "teams" in order to complete specific tasks (i.e. 3D rendering, audio, etc.). Each team's size will scale dynamically to fit its current workload by either acquiring new cores from the pool or releasing unneeded cores back to the pool for use by other processes."

3. The PlayStation 3 will be capable of handling seven wireless, bluetooth controllers.

4. This is the killer feature of the PlayStation 3. Blu-Ray has industry-wide support, and by shipping it with the PS3, it will be in millions of homes very, very quickly. This will give it a significant advantage over its rival, HD-DVD.

I can give more.

[Kamalot]

4. This is the killer feature of the PlayStation 3. Blu-Ray has industry-wide support, and by shipping it with the PS3, it will be in millions of homes very, very quickly. This will give it a significant advantage over its rival, HD-DVD.

Who does this help but Sony? Does Bluray have an advantage to me, as a gamer?

[overdrivechao]

Who does this help but Sony? Does Bluray have an advantage to me, as a gamer?

If you like content. The BD tech. will actually make devs want to fill the thing with stuff that usually takes a couple director;s cuts to come out with. Plus, texture-wise, the crispness possible on long games like RPGs will blow minds. Again, like Revolution, it is the possibilities not the theory.

[Kamalot]

Color me skeptical. All the reports about BluRay put the data transfer rate being very slow, too slow to run games off of.

In fact, Bluray specs make it highly unlikely that 1080p HD movies can be played off of the discs. Output for movies will have to be limited to 1080i or 720p.

http://kamalot.blogspot.com/2006/02/1080p-only-hype.html

Check it out.

At present, there are no off-the-shelf broadcast cameras that can handle 1080p/60, a true progressive format with fast picture refresh rates. It’s just too much digital data to handle and requires way too much bandwidth or severe MPEG compression. (Consider that uncompressed 1920x1080i requires about 1.3 gigabits per second to move around. 1080p/60 would double that data rate.)

[overdrivechao]

Color me skeptical. All the reports about BluRay put the data transfer rate being very slow, too slow to run games off of.

In fact, Bluray specs make it highly unlikely that 1080p HD movies can be played off of the discs. Output for movies will have to be limited to 1080i or 720p.

http://kamalot.blogspot.com/2006/02/1080p-only-hype.html

Check it out.

I really don't think transfer rate is established at all in any of the tech specs we have, because it's not done yet. And you are forgetting that transfer rate is an operation of the reader, not the media.

The fact of the matter is that Blu-Ray is designed to hold 1080p video. You were talking about uncompressed video taking 2 gb/s. MPG4/h264 is, in fact, compressed very well. Considering current DVD transfer is 6Mb/s-10Mb/s, and DivX rate for HQ 1080p is about 8Mb/s.... I think you have seriously miscalculated.

[rjcc]

You're correct in that Blu-ray player will be able to play 1080p content, Sony has already said their discs(movies) will be 1080p native, the question as far as gaming goes that the Blu-ray spec (and yes, the speeds are spec'd out) at 2x is only the same speed as about a 12x DVD drive. People have talked about Blu-ray vs. DVD like textures are suddenly going to quadruple in size and we'll have 15 gb games the 360 can't handle, if thats true, we'll be waiting 10 minutes for each level to load.

Of course, if Sony puts a 4x drive in that could significantly impove load times, but since no one has produced even a demonstration 4x drive, who knows when they will or how much it would cost.


Thats not even mentioning that even with the amount of RAM present in the 360 and PS3 developers would be faced with thhe same problem they had w/ previous gen systems, fitting mor and more data into memory, but now I'm rambling.